Street fighter vs. dragon ball(not counting gt.... - Or anything contradtcing the manga)

[akuma_forever]

ok i misted about 65 pages.... mind fillin me in?

[Nantuko Joe]

Joe, Enma would never revive the Z warriors for something so very petty. You can't go against his personality. Through PURE AND UNADULTERATED LOGIC that part of your agument is done.

You can somehow argue that Shin Bison would cooperate with Ryu (loosely) and that Goku and Kid Buu would cooperate (loosely) as well using some argument (there's been such odd alliances in DBZ, like Vegeta and Goku), but the simple fact is that Enma doesn't give a damn.

When we began this debate, we never gave a damn about personalities. It was like this: all the SF characters teaming up to defeat all the DBZ characters. Who would win? Personalities are beside the point in this debate. Enma is just like any DBZ character. Fcuk his normal personality, in this situation, his only goal is to help the DBZ characters win. End of story.

If we were taking personalities into account, the fight would look like this:

Vegeta automatically attacks. Tien starts to use the Shin Kikoho. Goku pleads with Tien to stop, then says "SF characters, we'll beat you. We dont' want to fight you. Please go back to where you came from, we don't want to hurt you." And Kuririn, Chaozu, and Yamucha would merely run away.

However, we're not taking personality into account. Enma's powers are totally legal in this debate, end of story.

Just have something to say(mostly against DB).


Wasn't this about the people that don't get killed is the winner? So why are people bringing up Emma? If your killed, you lose, even if you get revived, you still lose, since you died.

Therefore, by your logic, once Gill's body dies, then Gill's out of the fight. I quote from you "If your killed, you lose, even if you get revived, you still lose, since you died." Therefore, even if Gill has an infinite supply of new bodies waiting for him, he still loses, since his first body died, and therefore, he's automatically removed from the debate.

[Dan Hibiki]

Let's end this debate then. Gill fries all of the Z fighters with unbearable temperatures, OR he can Seraphic Wing near-infinitely and disintegrate them all, OR he can freeze them and shatter them. End of story.

[Nantuko Joe]

Um, no?

[Dan Hibiki]

Um, yes? Joe, I'm afraid we've won this debate.

[Nantuko Joe]

Just as instantly as Gill can raise the temperature, Goku can Shunkan Idou directly behind Gill and blast his ass into next week before Gill knows what hit him. Theoretically, the Warp Kamehameha (Power up Kamehameha, then Shunkan Idou behind opponent and fire) could accomplish this, and once Gill's first body is destroyed, he's eliminated. And dont' say "Seraph Wing", because Goku can fire the kamehameha INSTANTLY after reappearing behind Gill, so that Gill, even IF aware of Goku's presence, will not have enough time to manage a counterattack.

And just in case you try to bring this back up, Jurukogou can take care of Akuma. Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu is ineffective against Jurukogou, since he's an android, and therefore has no soul.

Dan, I'm afraid we've won the debate.

[Dan Hibiki]

I say Seraphic Wing because, as you might've noticed from EVERY Z-fighter, they stand around and watch the person do the attack for the first time. Goku can't know what Gill is doing, and so they wait around and see what's up. In either case, Goku requires the necessary time to fire the Kame Hame Ha, and Gill can just fire off one of those Seraphic Wings near-infinitely.

Joe, we win and you lose.

[KidKrazyShit]

Um, yes? Joe, I'm afraid we've won this debate.
thoughs who try to end a debate so suddenly, know they're about to lose. sucks, huh dan?

[Nantuko Joe]

I say Seraphic Wing because, as you might've noticed from EVERY Z-fighter, they stand around and watch the person do the attack for the first time. Goku can't know what Gill is doing, and so they wait around and see what's up. In either case, Goku requires the necessary time to fire the Kame Hame Ha, and Gill can just fire off one of those Seraphic Wings near-infinitely.

Joe, we win and you lose.
No. When Goku first arrived on Namek, Rikkum was gonna try and use his Rikkum Bomber, but as you remember, Goku knocked him out. When Goku fought Android 19, he didn't wait and see if he had any special abilities, he just started to beat the crap out of him. When Goku fought Yakon, he didn't see if he had any special abilities, he just blew the fcuker up. When SSJ3 Goku fought Buu (1st time), he didn't wait to see any special abilities, he just fought him.

When USSJ1 Vegeta fought SP Cell, Vegeta didn't wait and see if Cell was gonna use any special attacks, he just beat the crap out of him, pausing only to allow him to absorb Juuhachigou. Same as USSJ1 Trunks: When SP Cell was gonna absorb Juu, Trunks beat the crap out of him.

When Piccolo fought Cell (1st time), Piccolo didn't say "Hmm...he's got my ki. And Goku's. and Gohan's. Lemme wait and see what his abilities are." He just fought him, with no care to their special abilities.

My point is, when they're facing a strong opponent, they dont' wait and see their attacks. They just beat the crap out of them. Therefore, they'd see Gil powering up for a Seraph Wing (or sense his ki), then be afraid and pound him.

And Goku doesn't need THAT much time to charge a Kamehameha. It'll go like this (about the speed at which you read this:

"Ka.........me...........ha...........me.........."

*teleports*

"Ha!"

Gill wouldn't know what hit him.

BTW: What type of attack is Seraph Wing? Beam? Projectile? Shield?

[Dan Hibiki]

Seraphic wing is an immensely destructive expansive barrier. It covers EVERYTHING around Gill when he does it, and is the power of a God on Earth.

Joe, you are missing the point. As soon as somebody STARTS to do an ability, they stand around and twitch violently saying things like, "No... this... can't be..." and then the person does it.

Goku's Kame Hame Ha requires time to prepare. Seraphic Wing can be thrown out instantaneously.

[Vega Raphael]

Street Fighter. Easily. 'Nuff said.

[KidKrazyShit]

Dan: not neccessarily. We've seen Goku do a Kamehameha within seconds. They may not have been his most powerful ones, but he did them never the less.
I'm sure it takes Gill atleast a few seconds to do his Seraphic wing attack.

[Roll]

Yes, but those very seconds only allow a weaker state for the Kamehameha. And unfortunately for you guys, the Seraphic Wing is instantaneous.

[SBYRD5]

Gill's signature move....

[Dan Hibiki]

SBYRD5 LIVES! HE LIVES!!!

Yes, it is his signature move, and it is unstoppable when it starts.

[Gotenks13]

1. Lets get those d@mn temperatures out of this debate. Buu said that he had absorbed all of the planets he destroyed...or their power, right? I'm sure he did the same for some stars, which are infinitely hot...just about. If the "Z" fighters were strong enough to eliminate Buu, and they are, then they can sureley handle the temperature of a mere star. Those ki attacks aren't necessarily room temperature.

2. Sepharic Wing may be instantaneous, but couldn't they avoid it? Is it extremely close to the speed of light? What is the range of it? What makes you think that all of the "Z" fighters would be in one big huddle ready to die all at once? That defies any strategy...and if they were, their combined power should be able to create a barrier capable of deflecting any attack.

3. Well, does Gill have anything else up his sleeves? Letss fuse and destroy his body, thus eliminating him from the debate. Well, that was you trump card...

Unless you can come up with anything else,-

Debate over!!! Winner: DB"Z"!!!

[Dan Hibiki]

Give me a break. He said he had a bit of the energy of every planet with him, not every planet piece.

Gotenks, Seraphic Wing CAN'T be avoided. It is an expansive barrier that hits EVERYTHING around him. 'Nuff said.

[Nantuko Joe]

1. Lets get those d@mn temperatures out of this debate. Buu said that he had absorbed all of the planets he destroyed...or their power, right? I'm sure he did the same for some stars, which are infinitely hot...just about. If the "Z" fighters were strong enough to eliminate Buu, and they are, then they can sureley handle the temperature of a mere star. Those ki attacks aren't necessarily room temperature.

No DBZ character can resist the heat of a star. I know this is filler, but look at Koora: He was about Furiza's strength and got melted when he was blasted into the sun. Same for Brolli. And the sun isn't even that hot (compared to other stars). I'm not sure about later in the Buu saga, but as far as I know, they can't resist stars

Gotenks, Seraphic Wing CAN'T be avoided. It is an expansive barrier that hits EVERYTHING around him. 'Nuff said.

How fast does this barrier expand? 'Cuz I have a theory on how to avoid it...

[Dan Hibiki]

As soon as he does it, it covers the entire area. Play SFIII and find out. Also, its range is unlimited because it is energy expanding, and it carries some beam properties like that.

[Nantuko Joe]

As soon as he does it, it covers the entire area. Play SFIII and find out. Also, its range is unlimited because it is energy expanding, and it carries some beam properties like that.

Okay, I got this figured out now...

Gill, being a deity, will prolly want to see what Goku's Kamehameha is (or not, and may or may not begin the battle with the Seraph). Goku begins charging the Kamehameha, and Gill unleashes the Seraph Wing. As his barrier expands, Goku Shunkan Idous inside the barrier, away from harm, and behind Gill to finish off his Warp kamehameha. The Kamehameha destroys (or cripples) Gill's current body, allowing for his destruction at the hands of anybody, really.

And no matter what, if Gill's Seraph Wing expands in ALL directions, then it also kills off the weaker DBZ characters and the weaker SF characters. Then the energy of the Seraph wing, since it continues to expand in all directions with unlimited range, kills everybody on earth and prolly destroys the earth itself. Without earth, there's no atmosphere. Without atmosphere, the body cannot survive. Gill's body dies, and the fight ends in a draw.

[Dan Hibiki]

Joe, you seriously SHOULD play SFIII. If you did, you would discover that it IS a rapidly-expanding barrier, but it is MANY, MANY, MANY CONTINUOUS barriers. Goku can't teleport inside, because all that area is within attack range of the Seraphic Wing still.

Also, Joe, whatever happened to keeping personality out of it? This said, in this situation Gill wouldn't care about the Kame Hame Ha. Also, I said that it CAN expand infinitely, but that doesn't mean that Gill can't stop it. In addition, I thought we were going to leave planet-wide destruction out of this... isn't that on page 1 of the debate?

[Nantuko Joe]

You indirectly brought up planet-wide destruction. If the Seraph Wing has enough power to kill a Buu-saga level Goku, than it WILL destroy earth, no question about it. If it expands infinately in ALL directions, it WILL hit earth, and earth WILL explode. Therefore, if you wanna leave earth destroying out of this debate, yer gonna have to eliminate the Seraph Wing.

I've got you cornered now, mwahahaha!

[Dan Hibiki]

No I don't. The Kame Hame Ha can destroy the earth, and you still use it in the debate. Planet-wide destruction is left out of this debate. Just act like the ground is indestructible or something. This is a fight between CHARACTER ABILITIES AND STRENGTHS, not blowin' planets up and suffocating yourself.

[Nantuko Joe]

EDIT: hold on a sec, I just saw that "indestructible ground" thing after I posted...

Well, first off, I'm not gonna run out and buy SFIII just to win this debate. If you can get me a few screenshots of the Seraph Wing, that would be helpful. Also, how many expandable barriers does the Seraph Wing produce? And he can launch it INSTANTLY, as in one instant, it's peace and quiet, and the next INSTANT, everybody's dead?

[Dan Hibiki]

First off, he can either take his time with it or he can launch it instantaneously. Also, it can either be around 34 barriers (when he doesn't try) or he can do it almost indefinitely using millions of barriers.

[Nantuko Joe]

And is this attack designed to be like a one-hit-KO in the games, or merely a Super/Special/Hyper attack (like Shinkuu Hadouken)?

Furthermore, does Gill appear in Street Fighter 3 or Street Fighter Alpha 3?

[Dan Hibiki]

Street Fighter III series, and it is a Super, and it leaves less than 5% of their life after it executes. Gill isn't trying in SFIII. He could obliterate everything if he wanted to try, kind of like how Ryu would never stand a chance against Akuma if Akuma were to try.

[Nantuko Joe]

So, according to the Street Fighter rules, Gill would have to build up some energy before launching the SW, he cannot launch it instantly at the beginning of the battle, which would give the Z fighters a bit of time to manage a defense

[Dan Hibiki]

Actually, he can, because he doesn't need to build up power in the actual story.

[TarkanX]

Yeah Dan, is there a way you can get a vid shot of Gill doing the Seraphic Wing, and also Meteor shower? Make sure you do the Seraphic Wing on crouching Akuma(it totally kills all his life).

[Nantuko Joe]

Hrmm...I gotta think about this...

Gill can launch an infinate amount of one-hit-kill blasts an infinite number of times without EVER running out of energy due to tiredness or stress...hrmm...this might be tougher to counter than I thought...

[Dan Hibiki]

I'll try to get vids, but it'll be hard. I don't know if I have access to the equipment anymore.

[MasterX05]

omg this is still here. :eh:

[Nantuko Joe]

Okay, I figured out a solution just as my comp was shutting down yesterday, but was too impatient to wait for my comp to restart.

If someone (Kuririn, Tien, or Goku) uses the Taiyoken "Solar Flare" prior to Gill's launch of the Seraph Wing, it will blind Gill, and leave Gill helpless for a minute, enough time for Goku to power up a Kamehameha and blast Gill. Hell, with Gill blinded, Goku and Gohan can powerup a Kamehameha, Tien can powerup a Shinkikoho, Vegeta his Final Flash, and Goten and Trunks can fuse into SSJ3 Gotenks and use his Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack.

But IMO, just Kamehameha and Final Flash (or Biku Bang)should be enough to destroy Gill's body before he recovers from the Taiyoken.

[Dan Hibiki]

... except we already covered that Seraphic Wing has no charge time. Even blinded he can pull it off. He doesn't need to see to hit people.

[Nantuko Joe]

However, as we are shown in DBZ, the blindness caused by the Taiyoken also causes extreme pain, and the victims are helpless, blind or not. Take Cell for example. He used his Taiyoken to blind everybody so he could absorb android 18. Now, even though everyone was blind, a few of them still could have used their own attacks. Kuririn, though blind, could have jumped up in the air and used his own Taiyoken to blind Cell in return, but he was in too much pain to do so.

[Dan Hibiki]

Joe, stare at the sun for a second and you'll understand. It isn't pain, but just not being able to see.

[Nantuko Joe]

Um...i've done that before. I can stare at the sun for quite some time before I have to turn my eyes away. It's not that bad.

The Taiyoken takes the sunlight, magnifies it, and reflects it into one giant burst of light that blinds anyone close to it. It's like staring into the intensity of ten suns. Go back and watch/read the Cell Saga, after Cell used the Taiyoken, everybody was in extreme pain, and they were still blind even after the pain wore off...

[Dan Hibiki]

No, they were just blind. Let me rephrase... be blinded by a light once in your life and you will understand.

[Nantuko Joe]

No, they were just blind. Let me rephrase... be blinded by a light once in your life and you will understand.
I HAVE been blinded before. Let me use an example:

You know when you wake up in the morning (or at night), and it's still dark, and you flip on the switch to go to the bathroom, and the light blinds you and it hurts? The Taiyoken is like a hundred times stronger than that.

Another example: Wearing night vision goggles in the dark, and someone flips on a light. Taiyoken is worse than that.

When Cell used his Taiyoken, the warriors were not only blind, they were in extreme pain. If they were only blind, they would have been like "Damn! I'm blind! Let's run away!" Or, ppl like Kuririn and Vegeta are able to sense where ki is located without using their eyes (Goku can too), so they'd be able to fight fairly well for their condition while blind. Did they? No, instead they were all writhing in pain, holding their faces.

[Dan Hibiki]

Then Gill can just say, "Ugh! This hurts! I'm gonna kill everything!" and it is so.

[Tantum]

God damn, you people stare at the sun? I thought you were all mental, but wow. :eek:

[Nantuko Joe]

Then Gill can just say, "Ugh! This hurts! I'm gonna kill everything!" and it is so.
Gyahh! That's not the point! Go back and watch the ep where Cell uses the Taiyoken! Or go and read the manga where Cel luses the Taiyoken! In the first few moments, they are 100% HELPLESS until the pain wears off, and remain blind for a good long time. Gill would be in pain for I'm guessing about 10 seconds, giving Goku enough time to powerup a Kamehamha, and Vegeta enough time to powerup a Final Flash, and Gotenks enough time to launch some Super Ghosts, etc...

And even IF you beat me on this particular Taiyoken-debate, I've still got a couple of other plots up my sleeve...

[Dan Hibiki]

They're helpless if they aren't a GOD. Gill's been alive for... well, God only knows how long, and he'd know when to pull out Seraphic Wing. If DBZ tried to pull out Taiyoken, he'd just respond with Seraphic Wing when he was blinded. They aren't HELPLESS... they can still do non-specific target attacks like Seraphic Wing.

??? :laugh: shame full dont u know its all just a crap cartoon

[Dan Hibiki]

You have two choices.

1. Shut the hell up and get out of this topic.
2. Get out of this topic and shut the hell up.

Make your choice.

[Tantum]

Dan, why are you so defensive? He's just stating a fact. Why should you worry what someone says about such a stupid debate pertaining to imaginary people.

[princevegetam]

it's stupid cause you don't care about these things. well, there are some of us that do, and if you think it's stupid, then just let us continue being stupid then and mind your own business

prince vegetas right if u dont like this topic and think its dumb dont reply then theres no war
but then again the way u said it is being silly

[Gotenks13]

...I thought I told you to cut off the camera...

Dan, Kami is the "god" of earth right? Do you think he can take a Taiyoken? No...Even supernatural beings are affected by those attacks, as long as they have a physical body to take damage. Gill has a physical body, so certain attacks can render him helpless. Taiyoken attacks pretty much everyone's weakness causing a tremendous amount of pain, no matter who you are.

[Dan Hibiki]

Once again, I REITERATE that Taiyoken DOES NOT CAUSE PAIN. IT CAUSES BLINDNESS, AND PEOPLE GRIP THEIR EYES BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SEE. IT IS A NATURAL REACTION. THEY ARE NOT IN PAIN. Even if Gill was, he could just Seraphic Wing once he couldn't see, and he'd obliterate everything around him.

[lisblove]

:shocked: over 800 replies

[Gotenks13]

lisblove: That was so unnessecary.

Dan: What makes you think it doesn't cause pain? Sometimes I'd look into the sun. I feel pain in my eyes. All I can do is wait a second til' the pain goes away. Imagine something a hundred times worse. Dan, you fail to realize that even the brightest star (which indeed would cause pain if you glanced it at an angle) pales in comparison to the Taiyoken. It will hurt. Thats all I can really say. Gill will be helpless, along with any other fighter.

[KidKrazyShit]

I would like to add something, but before I do I must know if your counting filler in this debate. If Dan or Joe could tell me, it would be appreciated.

[Dan Hibiki]

Filler contradicts the manga, so no.

[Roll]

Dan, Kami is the "god" of earth right? Do you think he can take a Taiyoken? No...Even supernatural beings are affected by those attacks, as long as they have a physical body to take damage. Gill has a physical body, so certain attacks can render him helpless. Taiyoken attacks pretty much everyone's weakness causing a tremendous amount of pain, no matter who you are.
Let's just put a few differences between the two, k?

Gill's literally a god, who is extremely powerful and has a soul that is immortal.

Kami is the gaurdian of the earth, isn't very powerful (in comparison only), and can be killed off.

and as far as that thing about the constant pain goes:
What about when Gen uses Zen-ai? That attack damages even after the attacked is done. Yet, somehow, you can still move, attack, etc. Now, what makes you think that a bit of pain in the eyes is going to stop Gill from lashing out with Seraphic Wing?

[Tantum]

Prince Vegeta, I like SF, and I used to like DBZ... and I don't think either of them are "stupid". But this topic is without a doubt stupid, because it will never end, because you're debating imaginary characters... it's like debating the bible, when your debating something as imaginary as that, you can never "win" a conversation.

81 pointless pages, and counting.... (well, hopefully not.)

[sky666]

i think db would win but akuma and bison would put up a good fight and no dbz can not [U] go as fast as light it just semmes like they do and leaving four after imagis is not good cause it means u are moving slower than if it only had one

[Roll]

ok..

Tantum, please don't start.

[Dan Hibiki]

Prince Vegeta, I like SF, and I used to like DBZ... and I don't think either of them are "stupid". But this topic is without a doubt stupid, because it will never end, because you're debating imaginary characters... it's like debating the bible, when your debating something as imaginary as that, you can never "win" a conversation.

81 pointless pages, and counting.... (well, hopefully not.)
Tantum, butt out. You're spamming, and you know what spamming'll get you.

[sky666]

oh on the ground i think sf will win because dbz is good in the air but not se good on land. umm if a dbz character was hit in the air could he fly and come back to the ground or just fall?

[Tantum]

I'm not spamming at all. The only reason I'll get out of this useless topic is because Roll asked politely. But before I go, I'd like to give you a few pointers.

#1) DBZ isn't real, it's a TV show.
#2) SF isn't real, it's a game.
#3) Please don't ruin your life believing it is.
#4) You probably don't realize your brain is fried, but you will when you look back.
#5) Don't tell me what to do like you're some hot shot. Because you aren't.
#6) This is indeed a pointless topic, it will never end, you're just wasting time.
#7) I'm just looking out for your best interests, please realize that, and stop this topic.


That being said, you're free to do whatever you want. But if you're smart you'll listen to my pointers.


P.S. Don't flame me, it's not gonna help.

[Gotenks13]

Ok...I won't flame you.

Gen uses Zen-ai?

...info please...

[princevegetam]

#5) Don't tell me what to do like you're some hot shot. Because you aren't.
Don't tell us what to do like you're some hot shot. Because you aren't.

[Dan Hibiki]

Zen-ai is a rapid attack that Gen can use that, after he lands the final hit, causes severe pain to the person for several seconds, and then debilitates them with a stun after those seconds are up. It causes pain, but while the person is in pain they aren't debilitated. It is after they lose a lot of life that they are debilitated.

[azn_boi35]

i think its gotta be dragonball!!

coz they look stronger snd they fight better!!!

[Gotenks13]

^^You have a lot to learn pal.

Dan: Debilitated meaning helpless, right? I forget... :biggrin:

[Dan Hibiki]

Yes, helpless. Stunned out of their wits.

[Gokan]

I'm not spamming at all. The only reason I'll get out of this useless topic is because Roll asked politely. But before I go, I'd like to give you a few pointers.

#1) DBZ isn't real, it's a TV show.
#2) SF isn't real, it's a game.
#3) Please don't ruin your life believing it is.
#4) You probably don't realize your brain is fried, but you will when you look back.
#5) Don't tell me what to do like you're some hot shot. Because you aren't.
#6) This is indeed a pointless topic, it will never end, you're just wasting time.
#7) I'm just looking out for your best interests, please realize that, and stop this topic.


That being said, you're free to do whatever you want. But if you're smart you'll listen to my pointers.


P.S. Don't flame me, it's not gonna help.
....... :lol: :D what a N()()B

1) It's obvious that DBZ is a TV show
2) It's Obvious that Street Fighter Is a game
3) I think your the only 1 who's ruined his own life believing that is is.
4) At least we had a brain in the 1st place.
5) You aren't a hot shot either. Take a look in a mirror yourself.
6) Then dont post in the fourm
7) Why should we stop this topic?

[princevegetam]

uh oh, that wasn't smart. actually gokan, he's been in the forum longer than you have. a whole year longer to be exact.

[Gokan]

I dont care. He has to be put in his place.

[Roll]

...Can someone please defend the DB side, please?

[Gotenks13]

Okay, but what exactly are we getting at now?

[Dan Hibiki]

The fact that, no matter what, Seraphic Wing ownz you.

[comboMastah]

-Put your hands on the ground, DB makes the world go round...yeah-

[img:post_uid4]http://www.dominican.edu/forstudents/Cheerleaders.jpg[/img:post_uid4]

and hush, cuz theyre lethal ;)

[Dan Hibiki]

Don't you DARE spam this thread.

[comboMastah]

:( sorry most honourable master Dan

[Gotenks13]

lol...master Dan...

Goku stil has his Instant Transmission(or its Japanese name which I don't know). Besides, its extremely rare that an attack they even they can't see would exist. And don't you say Sepharic Wing. Even if they didn't see it, I doubt it would kill all of them in one hit.

Goku takes one or two hits, but is still alive. Instant Transmission to a very, very, very far of place. Power up(if possible at that time), and push through Sepharic Wing with flight or an extemely long Kamehameha. Gill dies. Depeding on the situation, Veggeto just might be the fighter. Then what? Gill's Sepharic Wing couldn't last too long against Veggeto if the attacker himself would get his body destroyed by him.

[Nantuko Joe]

Well, I'm back from my long absence, and now with a brand new iMac G4, 800mHz processor, 80-gig hard drive, 512 MB RAM, CD-R/W, DVD-R/W, and a bunch more $hit. Soon I'll have Photoshop, so I can stop bugging you guyz to do my work :D

Now, back to this debate...

They're helpless if they aren't a GOD. Gill's been alive for... well, God only knows how long, and he'd know when to pull out Seraphic Wing. If DBZ tried to pull out Taiyoken, he'd just respond with Seraphic Wing when he was blinded. They aren't HELPLESS... they can still do non-specific target attacks like Seraphic Wing.

Oh, please, now yer gettin desperate. "...only if they aren't a GOD..." that's the biggest load of bull....

...whatever, man. Here's another one of my solutions that you CANT "he's a god"-me about:

1.) Goku and/or Kaiobito teleports all DBZ fighters to Kaiobito's planetoid
2.) Goku goes SSJ3 and begins powering up a Kamehameha (using more energy for it than he ever has)
3.) Just as Goku shouts the "Ha!", he uses Shunkan Idou
4.) Goku arrives at Gill's position the exact, immediate instant that Goku's Kamehameha is launched.
5.) Gill is destroyed.

Supports to this theory:
-True, Gill can launch a Seraph Wing instantly; however, he does not have an instant/immediate/instantaneous reaction time. If Goku's Kamehameha is launched the INSTANT Goku arrives at Gill, and Goku is behind Gill, Gill would not only have to be aware of Goku's immediate presence, but have to have a reaction time of LESS THAN INSTANT (which is NOT possible) to react to Goku and launch the Seraph Wing (which is NOT possible). The Kamehameha hits Gill before Gill knows Goku is there and kills him.

-Neither Gill nor any other SF character has a Ki-locating teleportation, and they cannot follow them to Kaiobito's planetoid.

-Gill cannot sense ki, and therefore would NOT be aware of Goku's presence behind him until the Kamehameha hit him in the back



And please, I beg of you ppl: if you're not making a serious, fact-based, non-spam contribution to this topic, I'll have to ask you to leave. TarkanX, Dan, and I have debated long and hard on this topic, and we don't need a bunch of ppl with nothing but general spam clogging it up.

Examples:

combo MASTA: "-Put your hands on the ground, DB makes the world go round...yeah-"

azn_boi35: "i think its gotta be dragonball!! coz they look stronger snd they fight better!!!"

Gokan with his list

Tantum with his constant bashing of how stupid this thread is (if you don't like the thread, then simply don't post. But we don't need to see your posts on how stupid this thread is)

...and a million other ppl sitting there and spam-posting. If yer not gonna make an intelligent post that pertains to the topic, then don't post here.
[/color]

[SBYRD5]

I've realized something about this topic the fight could never happen.

1.Goku wouldn't fight Ryu instead they would both trade tips on how to perfect there signature move.

2.Fat Majin Buu would become friends with Ken because Ken would become friends with Hercule because Hercule is the world's martial arts champion.Hercule would never fight ken because both of them seem to act like clowns they would get along.(also both are millionares..oh yea Ken settled down and had a family too)

3.Fie Long and Guy might pick a fight with Yamcha and Tien,but it wouldn't happen unless Tien and Yamcha would travel to the city,and Tien seems to like to train,and not fight for sport...Yamcha would probaly fight.

4.Vegeta..hell he would fight..everyone.

5.Piccolo wouldn't fight certian street fighters because he has the info from Kami who is evil in the world and who is not.

6.Krillen only fights in defense.

7.Akuma would fight everyone...

8.Sakura wouldn't fight Hercule's daughter because both attend school.(Where would they find the time...besides there both heros..I think)

There are more than enough reasons..I don't feel like saying anymore..

[Gotenks13]

We got rid of any personality traits they would have.

[Roll]

Just one question. Which universe are we using? Because the SF universe and the DB universe are different universes.

[Gotenks13]

Neither I guess...

[Gokan]

I've realized something about this topic the fight could never happen.


4.Vegeta..hell he would fight..everyone.

5.Piccolo wouldn't fight certian street fighters because he has the info from Kami who is evil in the world and who is not.

6.Krillen only fights in defense.

7.Akuma would fight everyone...
Would Akuma fight Vegeta Then?

[Nantuko Joe]

SBYRD5, that post was 100% spam.

And it appears that noone has responded to my solution yet...hmm...

[Dan Hibiki]

No go Joe. Seraphic Wing is instantaneous. There is no way to get through it. He'd just do it immediately. If we are eliminating personality and going straight on abilities, then Gill has won. There is no countering a one-hit kill instantaneous no-wind-up infinite attack. DBZ'd never see it coming. This debate is over.

[Nantuko Joe]

You obviously don't understand...

Yes, the Seraph Wing is instantaneous, but Gill's reaction speed is NOT. Goku can INSTANTLY laungh the Kamehameha after reappearing BEFORE Gill can react. Once he REACTS and REALIZES that Goku's there, THEN he can INSTANTLY launch a Seraph Wing. However, he does not have an INSTANT reaction time. He cannot launch an INSTANT Seraph Wing when he can't react in time. Goku INSTANTLY appears and INSTANTLY hits Gill with the Kamehameha, Gill's body dies. End of debate.

Plus, I know a way to counterdebate Gill's INSTANT ability to launch Seraph Wing, but I'll pull out that gun IF you can counter this new Warp Kamehameha skill I've just thrown at you...

[SBYRD5]

Just one question. Which universe are we using? Because the SF universe and the DB universe are different universes.
Yes,because the DBZ fighters would've sensed the power levels of the Street Fighters.(Actually, if the street fighters are located on the same planet earth the warriors would've meet in the WORLD MARTIAL ARTS TOURNAMENT. Joe, is that really spam or the reality that this long over going debate may have meet it's end.

[Nantuko Joe]

Just one question. Which universe are we using? Because the SF universe and the DB universe are different universes.
Yes,because the DBZ fighters would've sensed the power levels of the Street Fighters.(Actually, if the street fighters are located on the same planet earth the warriors would've meet in the WORLD MARTIAL ARTS TOURNAMENT. Joe, is that really spam or the reality that this long over going debate may have meet it's end.
Actually, if you read back a few pages, you'd see that we eliminated all personality traits.

Plus, we're talking about IF THEY DID fight. No one cares that they actually would NEVER fight, we just want to see that IF they fought, who would win.

[Bunmi]

lock this topic

[Gokan]

lock this topic
Shut up

[Dan Hibiki]

Joe, GOKU'S reaction time isn't instantaneous either. That evens out your argument on reaction time. Seraphic Wing overcomes Kame Hame Ha, and you are back where you started. Seriously, you ought to just give up now. There's no conquering Seraphic Wing.

[Ludacris]

lock this topic
Shut up
yah he's right.........shut up.........I learn a lot of things from this topic about DragonballZ and Street Fighter and not arguing either with Dan Hibiki and Nantuko Joe :biggrin:

[Nantuko Joe]

Joe, GOKU'S reaction time isn't instantaneous either. That evens out your argument on reaction time. Seraphic Wing overcomes Kame Hame Ha, and you are back where you started. Seriously, you ought to just give up now. There's no conquering Seraphic Wing.
Dan, you STILL don't understand. Goku is ON Kaioushin's planetoid, where he charges the kamehameha. He BEGINS to fire it (beginning to yell the "Ha!") while still on Kaiousama's planetoid. Then he Shunkan Idous BEHIND Gill, and the Kamehameha beam that BEGAN to be fired on Kaiousama's planetoid FINISHES the firing at Gill's back. Goku's reaction time has nothing to do with it. He doesn't have to do anything but float in the air with his hands out so the beam hits him.

Plus, how can you honestly say that NOTHING can break through a Seraph Wing? You act as if the Seraph Wing is unstoppable, and there's NOTHING that can combat it. Maybe in the SF universe it's unstoppable, but we can't apply those rules here.

Either way, Goku's reaction time has NOTHING to do with it. The MOMENT Goku appears behind Gill is the MOMENT the beam is being fired. Gill would have to sense Goku's presence behind him, and since Gill doesn't have any ki-sensing abilities, he won't know that Goku is behind him until the Kamehameha is disintegrating his body.

[SBYRD5]

Actually, if you read back a few pages, you'd see that we eliminated all personality traits.

Plus, we're talking about IF THEY DID fight. No one cares that they actually would NEVER fight, we just want to see that IF they fought, who would win.
Oh then sorry for that useless reply earlier then.

Umm I've been pondering what are the ages of the DBZ fighters and the Street Fighters.

Hmm Joe may be the only one in this thread that knows the answer.

[Dan Hibiki]

SBYRD5, you need to specify what time in DBZ for the ages.

Joe, Goku and company won't even have a chance to react to teleport to the planetoid. Seraphic Wing! Instant death. They'd never realize that they should've gone to the planetoid. Also, even if Goku et al teleported to the planetoid, Seraphic Wing can be done infinitely, so if Goku showed his face on Earth again he'd die instantly.

[Nantuko Joe]

SBYRD5, you need to specify what time in DBZ for the ages.

Joe, Goku and company won't even have a chance to react to teleport to the planetoid. Seraphic Wing! Instant death. They'd never realize that they should've gone to the planetoid. Also, even if Goku et al teleported to the planetoid, Seraphic Wing can be done infinitely, so if Goku showed his face on Earth again he'd die instantly.
Who's to say that the Seraph Wing is an instant-kill attack? Who's to say that a kamehameha cant break through it, or a Z fighter can't break through it? Remember, we're dealing with two different universes here. Goku could break through Gill's shield and/or form a shield against it.

[Dan Hibiki]

Now YOU'RE getting desparate. Seraphic Wing IS a one-hit kill attack. If Tarkan were still around, he'd back me up. Kame Hame Ha can't break through it, because it disrupts ALL energy attacks that it hits.

[Nantuko Joe]

I'm not getting desperate, i'm getting pissed. I want YOU to give me a link, which would DIRECTLY STATE that:

-Gill is a god
-Gill NEVER runs out of energy
-Gill can launch Seraph Wing INFINITELY
-Seraph Wing can be launched INSTANTLY
-Seraph Wing disrupts ALL energy attacks
-Seraph Wing is a one-hit kill

Unless you can prove all of that, I won't accepty any other explanations. It's quite possible that the reason no one in Street Fighter has survived a Seraph Wing is because they're too weak to. Who are you to say "Seraph Wing will instantly kill SSJ2 Vegetto"? Hell, we can't even measure the SF powerlevels. For all we know, Gill's PL could be weaker than Nappa!

It <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>IS</span> possible for a DBZ character to form a shield against Seraph Wing. It <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>IS</span> possible for a Kamehameha to break through a Seraph Wing (since Ki is different from SF "energy") But you CAN'T say "well, in SF, it kills them instantly, so obviously it would kill them instantly in DBZ!"

Let me ask you a question: In the SF storyline, does Gill EVER use an INSTANT Seraph Wing? In the game, does Seraph Wing ONE HIT KILL the opp? Does Gill EVER launch it infinitely? In the storyline, does it ever DIRECTLY STATE that Gill has unlimited energy? Unless it DIRECTLY says "Gill can instantly launch an infinite number of Seraph Wings because he has unlimited energy", then he CAN'T. Let me use an example:

In the DBZ storyline, Goku HAS the ability to perform the fusion dance with Vegeta. Tien HAS the ability to use Potarras and fuse with Yamucha. SSJ3 Gotenks HAS the ability to use Potarras to fuse with SSJ2 Vegetto. However, do they ever actually do it? NO! Therefore, can I use these wacky fusions in this debate? NO!

Now, same goes for Gill. In the SF storyline, unless he ever actually DOES instantly launch a Seraph Wing, unless he ever actually DOES do it infinitely, unless he ever actually DOES state that his energy never runs out, then it does. But you can't say "Well, he has the ABILITY to, so he can and I can use it in this debate."

This is what I'm getting down to:

If Gill never launched an INSTANT Seraph Wing in the storyline, then he cannot do so in this debate.

If Gill never launched INFINITE Seraph Wings in the storyline, then he cannot do so in this debate.

If Gill never was STATED that his "deity position" gives him UNLIMITED energy in the storyline, then he doesn't have Unlimited Energy

If Gill's Seraph Wing never ONE-HIT Kills an opponent at the beginning of a fight in the storyline, then it can't one-hit Kill someone in this debate.

And if you insist that he can do so without it being stated somewhere in the SF storyline, then I can legally (legally, in terms of this debate) incorporate the use of the Dragonballs, make use of wacky, never-before-seen fusions, and include characters from movies and specials and fillers that were not in the manga.

[Gotenks13]

Now you've done it. You've sent him on a 6 month search.

[Dan Hibiki]

I'm signing up for college courses and such, so I will do this search once I get my courses down.

[Nantuko Joe]

No problem. When do U go back to school?

[Roll]

Well, until Dan finishes signing up for the college courses and such, you can read up more on the SF Storyline stuff here:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/misc/file/street_fighter_plot.txt

[princevegetam]

only insufficient data can be found there

[Gotenks13]

Really...

[Roll]

It's actually pretty efficient compared to a lot of other "texts" out there. And besides, it's the best one that I know of, and even though it was here in the thread a few 40 pages ago, I don't think you want to search that far back just for the link.

[princevegetam]

read the actual part on gill, it only answers one or two of nantuko's questions

[Roll]

Yes, but he also stated earlier that he didn't know a lot of the SF history. So, this is good enough for that reason... and besides, I didn't have any other ones that are decent enough for any one to read.

[Nantuko Joe]

It's actually pretty efficient compared to a lot of other "texts" out there. And besides, it's the best one that I know of, and even though it was here in the thread a few 40 pages ago, I don't think you want to search that far back just for the link.
Was it written by the creators of SF? Or someone (or a bunch of someones) who studied SF and THINK that what they wrote down is true? (BTW, i haven't checked it, I don't have enuff time rite now...)

[Nantuko Joe]

Well, Dan and I may be nearing a conclusion...that leans towards DBZ. Here is an AIM convo we had the other nite:

http://www.boomspeed.com/nantuko/IM_With_Saikyostudent
*Note: At the end of the convo, AIM booted me off. When I got back on, Dan had already signed off.

[Dan Hibiki]

Actually, things seem mighty even right now. I'm busy or I'd debate some more.

[Roll]

come on, peoples! There must be something to debate!

[Nantuko Joe]

I'm waiting on Hibiki. Go read the AIM convo. From the sounds of it, DBZ will win.

[Dan Hibiki]

Tomorrow the debate will continue (I have almost everything out of the way)... and that's the self-centered view I expected. The convo actually shows us on neutral ground.

[Nantuko Joe]

Tomorrow the debate will continue (I have almost everything out of the way)... and that's the self-centered view I expected. The convo actually shows us on neutral ground.
The way I see it, the convo implies that SF is fighting a slightly uphill battle...

and I now have a complete attack list for DBZ, some of which you've prolly never heard of. I've also got a trump card in the form of a character ability I totally forgot, but I'll only pull that out if it's needed.

[kool]

dbz yo

[Nantuko Joe]

kool: plz don't spam this topic. You can spam any other topic, i dont' care, but not this one.

Hibiki: I reviewed our convo, and it appears you lost track of what went down. Let me go over this:

-Before the battle begins, Kaioubito teleports EVERYBODY to kaiousei.
-Goku goes SSJ3 and powers up a Chaou Kamehameha.
-Goku uses Shunkan Idou to teleport directly behind Gill
*Simultaneously, Kaioubito teleports everyone else to Goku's position
*Gill does not have the ability to sense ki
-Goku launches the Chaou Kamehameha and destroys Gill
-Akuma attempts to use Shun Goku Satsu to destroy Goku

Now, this is where the debate began:
I said that Goku could either dodge or use Shunkan Idou to avoid the SGS

You said he'd be too tired to sense Akuma's ki

I said someone else could destroy Akuma before he hits the SGS

You said Gill can use Seraph Wing to destroy them.

However, Gill's already dead in this fight. Vegeta or Gotenks or Piccolo could destroy Akuma, and the rest of the SF team would be no match for the rest of DBZ.

At least, that's how I see it.

[Dan Hibiki]

Uh, no, he isn't dead. We went through several what-if statements. Him being dead is a big what-if. What if Gill does something different, like fake out that he's done and then re-launch it unexpectedly to kill Goku. That is another what-if. We can continue discussing this tomorrow.

[SBYRD5]

Hmm the way I understand this the topic name is this=

"Street Fighter vs Dragon ball"

I think we where orignally suppose to debate about the Dragonball series.....Now I know almost all of you are going to say "Dragonballz is part of The Dragonball series...it's an on going martial arts series.....".

If we debated with the characters in the Dragonball series vs the Street Fighter series...during that specific time... the result is obiviously SF.

I think you all have debated at ever point of view now for DBZ vs SF....how about......DB vs SF....I'd like to see Joe debate a way for The Dragonball Fighters to have victory over the Street Fighters.

If this is spam to you don't respond.

[Nantuko Joe]

Hmm the way I understand this the topic name is this=

"Street Fighter vs Dragon ball"

I think we where orignally suppose to debate about the Dragonball series.....Now I know almost all of you are going to say "Dragonballz is part of The Dragonball series...it's an on going martial arts series.....".

If we debated with the characters in the Dragonball series vs the Street Fighter series...during that specific time... the result is obiviously SF.

I think you all have debated at ever point of view now for DBZ vs SF....how about......DB vs SF....I'd like to see Joe debate a way for The Dragonball Fighters to have victory over the Street Fighters.

If this is spam to you don't respond.
There is only one series, titled "Dragonball." This was created by Akira Toriyama and consists of Forty-two "books". It was only split into two series when they created the TV show. The first 16 books were titled "Dragonball" and books 17-42 were titled "Dragonball Z". When Tarkan made this thread, he didn't mean the series titled "Dragonball", which focused on Goku as a kid and young adult, he meant the "Dragonball" series as a whole: INCLUDING what ppl call Dragonball Z. That's why DBZ is included in the debate.

Hibiki: Yes, they're what-ifs, but also, in that convo, we eliminated the following:
-Infinite Seraph Wings
-Instant Seraph Wings
-Gill never runs out of power
-ALL energy attacks are nullified by the Seraph Wing
-Nothing can break through the Seraph Wing
-Seraph Wing is a one-hit KO, no exceptions

All six of those "rumors" are no longer included in the debate, unless you can find PROOF that Gill actually did them infinately, instantly, never runs out of energy, and all attacks are useless against it. Even if it only says he has the ABILITY to launch it infinately and instantly, we can't use it (unless I'm allowed to use wacky fusions and things that contradict the manga.)

[Dan Hibiki]

Actually, the only thing that you have really disproved is the infinite Seraphic Wings, because I conceded that. I'm also laying off those points FOR NOW because I haven't had the chance to search for the proofs you have asked for. Rest assured they are not eliminated... merely ignored for now.

Actually, instant Seraphic Wings weren't disproven, either. That goes along with me finding the proofs. The major thing that was disproven was Seraphic Wing hitting you no matter where you are, because it was stated that the Earth is invincible in this battle, making the other side of the world safe.

[Nantuko Joe]

Actually, the only thing that you have really disproved is the infinite Seraphic Wings, because I conceded that. I'm also laying off those points FOR NOW because I haven't had the chance to search for the proofs you have asked for. Rest assured they are not eliminated... merely ignored for now.

Actually, instant Seraphic Wings weren't disproven, either. That goes along with me finding the proofs. The major thing that was disproven was Seraphic Wing hitting you no matter where you are, because it was stated that the Earth is invincible in this battle, making the other side of the world safe.
Fine then, I'll wait for yer research.

and not only the other side of the earth, but if yer merely on a tangent where yer not in a DIRECT LINE in between you and Gill, yer safe too (unless yer behind a mountain in a direct line w/him)

[Yasback]

BE QUIET!!!

DRAGONBALL Z IS PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :D

[Nantuko Joe]

BE QUIET!!!

DRAGONBALL Z IS PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :D
Once again, I beg of the ##### NOT to spam this topic...

[Roll]

So...what about that list of attacks, Nantuko? Are you going to keep it a secret from us until Dan or someone else knocks your arguments away?

[Nantuko Joe]

Roll, my friend...you NEVER reveal yer trump card until you need it. There is an attack or ability in DBZ that is perfect for whichever situation I need, and if I need an attack, I'll refer to it when I need to use it.

Plus, the list is so long, it'd take up over three entire post lengths

[Dan Hibiki]

The way I see it, we've done virtually every other type of debate in this topic, so why not a point-counterpoint based upon specific skills? This is a skill vs. skill, what skills can beat what, etc. I think you should post that attack list. Heck, this topic already has enough posts anyways.

Bring it. Perhaps we can finally finish this debate this way.

[SBYRD5]

Hmm I was thinking when the SF fighters fight the DBZ fighters will it be a group battle...perhaps that would change the point of view.

I believe M.Bison and Dalhsim have the power of teleportation....well they have this skill in the video game.

Maybe Gill,M.Bison,Dalhsim could form some sort of "Delta attack"(Three person attack)?

This could happen because Bison did work with Guile in an attempt to defeat a stronger foe....


Also Gill's attack is an instant kill correct with the right transportation with the attack he would make short work of the DBZ fighters...I think...

EDIT:MAN....you guys elimanated Gill's attack form the debate...*sigh*...ignore my post.....again... :(

Oh yea I heard M.Bison has an ability that makes his victim incapable of moving...

[Nantuko Joe]

The way I see it, we've done virtually every other type of debate in this topic, so why not a point-counterpoint based upon specific skills? This is a skill vs. skill, what skills can beat what, etc. I think you should post that attack list. Heck, this topic already has enough posts anyways.

Bring it. Perhaps we can finally finish this debate this way.
Fine, I won't reveal my ENTIRE list, but mostly just attacks I think would be useful for DBZ in this fight:

[quote]Ayatsuri no Majyutsu (Mind Control)
First used by: Bibidi
Color: N/A
Type: Other
This is the technique Babidi (and Bibidi) used to control anyone with evil in there heart. The "victim" gets an incredible energy boost, but can't help but do whatever Babidi says. Vegeta was able to not be fully controlled because of his pride, he would not allow himself to become a slave to anyone else

[azn_boi35]

i think that street fighter is a lil more realistic than dragonball

[Dan Hibiki]

Joe, could you type up your whole attacks list and upload it to Mallarky or something? I want a POINT-COUNTERPOINT SKILL VS. SKILL DEBATE, not a, "I'll toss out what I want, and make everybody else wait until I feel like showing more," deal. This way that I propose is the ONLY way that this debate can possibly end.

[Nantuko Joe]

Trying to do a point/counterpoint debate on 100+ attacks at once is kinda difficult.

And do YOU have a list of every stated skill in SF?

[Dan Hibiki]

Joe, just post your list and I'll post mine.

[dark_vegito]

hello

[Roll]

Interesting list, Nantuko. Looks like someone did his homework. But, still, don't think you've won just because you've got a list of attacks that the dbz people use.

[hadoken king]

Why don't you sf fans stop frontin you dbz would destroy sf nuff said. Can a mod or admin delete or close theis topic now. :hmmm:

[Nantuko Joe]

This topic may eventually be closed, but only when the debate is over. Since the debate is not over, it won't be closed, so don't frigging spam the topic anymore!

And Dan...going over attacks would be deviating from the current situation. We both agreed that the debate would be put on hold until you finished your research on Gill. Unless and until you finish your research, get me the answers I want, and give me legitamit sources (written by the creator of the SF storyline), i find no need to continue this further. I originally asked for proof of the following:

-unless you can PROVE Gill never loses energy, he can and will lose energy in this debate

-unless you can PROVE he can launch a Seraph Wing INSTANTLY, he cannot do so in this debate.

-unless you can PROVE that Seraph Wing cannot be penetrated by any other attacks and nullfies ALL energy attacks/barriers upon contact, then it cannot in this debate.

-unless you can PROVE that Seraph Wing is a one-hit kill, it is NOT considered so in this debate.

[SBYRD5]

[quote]Ayatsuri no Majyutsu (Mind Control)
First used by: Bibidi
Color: N/A
Type: Other
This is the technique Babidi (and Bibidi) used to control anyone with evil in there heart. The "victim" gets an incredible energy boost, but can't help but do whatever Babidi says. Vegeta was able to not be fully controlled because of his pride, he would not allow himself to become a slave to anyone else

[Nantuko Joe]

This can be avoided the wizard is not very powerful...it was stated in the series..it takes time for him to control the victim....also that person must have evil in there heart....hats why Akuma would be first....but perhaps Akuma might do like Vegeta, Dabura and not let himself be controled perminantly

The series means jack-$hit...the manga says nothing of the sort. Babidi has a weak physical strength but very powerful magics. And it does not take time to control the victim, they're under control immediately.

And Dabura was ALWAYS under full control, and was controlled permanently. Vegeta, on the otherhand, was not fully controlled. This is ONLY because he said his pride would not allow him to become a slave, and nothing else (not 1/2 good, 1/2 evil; not too strong, but too prideful.

That is not valid because Ginyu is a frog now,but since there is no certian time in this debate....Ginyu has to adapt to that character's body....so Ginyu will not be at full strenght when he switches bodies(He may even be weaker than he was before)

We're using ALL the DBZ characters, whether they're dead or alive or a frog at the end of DBZ: this is a battle between ALL the DBZ characters and ALL of the SF characters, so even characters who are dead (or about to die) in the SF storyline are allowd in this debate.

And all Ginyu has to do is the same body change: Punch a hole through his heart...do the change (if he changes with Gill, it's pretty much over) and destroy him.

And he doesn't need time to adjust to a new body: that was only in Goku's case because of Goku's body. Other bodies require no time to get used to.

Which Buu are we discussing her Kid Buu,Super Buu,Fat Buu...Because Fat Buu can be manipulated...to a canidate for the SF fighters under the right influence....(Candy)

The only two Buus in this debate are Kid Buu and Fat Buu...and we're talking about the Fat Buu that Kid Buu spit out near the end of DBZ...not the Fat Buu that made friends with Mr. Sataan and expelled his evil to form Thin Buu. Both Kid and Fat Buus have the Henka Beam ability...and both can use it to their advantages. The "real" Fat Buu can't be manipulated.

And I'm guessing you have nothing to say about the Kienzan...

SBYRD5= Hmm man well perhaps if more than one is absorbed there might be a chance,but if it's just those two....then yeah...they would never work to gether to escape...(Note=If absorbed by buu there is still a way to escape....but it would require a distraction from the outside.)

If you're absorbed by Buu...you can't escape. When Buu absorbs someone, they go into a coma-like trance and are trapped inside cocoons inside of Buu. SSJ2 Vegetto was never truly absorbed: not only was it because of his strength, but he had seen the absorption before and figured out how to form a barrier to stop himself from being absorbed, which is why he was able to roam freely inside of Buu's insides. If they've never seen the absorbing before, and don't know how to form the barrier, there's no way to escape.

Well if the SF charater avoid the spit,and only let it hit there clothing,and do the same as Gohan there is no worry

None of the SFers have ever seen the attack. They wouldn't know what it is, and prolly wouldn't know until it's too late.

And if it landed on their clothes, they don't know it turns ppl to stone. They wouldn't know until it was too late. Gohan knew to remove his glove because he'd seen the attack before, and knew that it turned ppl to stone. If the SFers don't know what the attack is, they can't remove the clothes quick enough, because they won't know they're turning to stone.

Plus, if he uses this after someone uses a Taiyoken, they won't see the attack and be able to dodge it.

If this happened....guile would perform a sonic boom,and rupture the sound barrier....making a noice that would distract the DBZ fighters....giving some time to recover from the effects of solarflare.( Also M.Bison,and Dalhism would teleport to a more safe location..)

How would a loud boom distract the Z fighters? Guile would be too busy holding his eyes (like EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO'S EVER BEEN HIT BY THE TAIYOKEN HAS DONE) to form a Sonic Boom, and even if he did, he wouldnt' know where to aim it. Plus, it takes longer than that to recover from a Taiyoken to be able to fly away and know where yer going.

But a loud boom won't distract the Z fighters...that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. They would all be blinded, and the Z fighters would take advantage and attack.

Hmm incorrect kid Goku evaded that attack,and M.Bison also has a from of mind control...he used on Cammy he could counter this....

He evaded it the second time around. If Roshi used it agianst an SFer, he wouldn't know what the hell it was. And once they're asleep, there's nothing they can do. It all rides on putting them to sleep.

[iori]

If SF, and DB fought(and on ground), who would win?

Post why you think each would win(and don't say dumb things like, "because gOkU cAnZ detrsoZ dA uNIverz"), back up your evidence also.
ok i've seen this before but the z fighters would win any time cuz of speed,streath, and they can fly

[Nantuko Joe]

If SF, and DB fought(and on ground), who would win?

Post why you think each would win(and don't say dumb things like, "because gOkU cAnZ detrsoZ dA uNIverz"), back up your evidence also.
ok i've seen this before but the z fighters would win any time cuz of speed,streath, and they can fly
In the future, before making a post like that, read any previous pages you may find. I know it's a lot to read, but it saves me from having to write posts like this

[SBYRD5]

Well when I said "Guile would use his sonic boom as a distraction". I meant he would just aim it somewhere........You know you can't really see a sonic boom....I was thinking on those terms.... Besides the DBZ fighters might think that sound could be another warrior arriving for the SFers....but your right that was a foolish thought.

Oh here is another thing...Not all the SFers or DBZ fighters would work together,but this is a "What if kinda battle".

And not all the DBZ ighters know what kinda assualt the SF fighters will bring into the battle either.

(Umm it's common sense to dodge spit....I think Piccolo,and Kurruin(Sorry for misspelling) where foolish to let spit hit them.)

[Nantuko Joe]

Well when I said "Guile would use his sonic boom as a distraction". I meant he would just aim it somewhere........You know you can't really see a sonic boom....I was thinking on those terms.... Besides the DBZ fighters might think that sound could be another warrior arriving for the SFers....but your right that was a foolish thought.

Oh here is another thing...Not all the SFers or DBZ fighters would work together,but this is a "What if kinda battle".

And not all the DBZ ighters know what kinda assualt the SF fighters will bring into the battle either.

(Umm it's common sense to dodge spit....I think Piccolo,and Kurruin(Sorry for misspelling) where foolish to let spit hit them.)
True...normally Ryu and Akuma, and Goku and Cell would not be fighting on the same side, but we already rid the debate of any personality problems that would affect the battle.

And if Dabura's spit was shot after a Taiyoken...they can't know it's coming and they'd get affected.

[SBYRD5]

I wish I had a list of SF attacks then I could perhaps reply with better reasoning.

[Nantuko Joe]

It doesn't really matter. A Taiyoken will blind anyone who is near it...leaving them completely open to a finishing attack by another DBZ character

[Roll]

Taiyoken is the flashing attack, right? Why doesn't someone just... "reflect" the flash?

(Page two? You guys really let yourselves go.)

[Nantuko Joe]

Taiyoken is the flashing attack, right? Why doesn't someone just... "reflect" the flash?

(Page two? You guys really let yourselves go.)
Reflect Taiyoken? Um, no?

Taiyoken reflects DIRECT SUNLIGHT off of the user's hands, increases the brightness, and flashes it into an entire area. You can't close your eyes in time, and you sure as hell CAN'T reflect it or block it. It moves the speed of light (since it IS light) and NOTHING in DBZ or SF can move anywhere near that fast.

A Taiyoken would blind the SFers, leaving them open to pretty much any and all attacks in the DBZ inventory, including a Triple/Quadruple Kamehameha, henka beam from Buu, Final flash or big bang, burning attack, any attack in the DBZ inventory.

[~virtualfighter~]

umm... my oppinion on this is that the dbz ppl, are kinda dum. i mean "Oh my god!!! cell is going into perfect state!!!! destroy him vegeta!!!"
"no. i want a good fight"
*vegeta gets crashed by cell's power*

and in this different one, when gohan is doing a kameyameya wave at cell, and cell is doing the same thing, and they are booth lokedin never ending struggle to see who has a greater power, the other dbz fighters are just standing there like idiots. dont you think it would be good if one of the started fireing at cell, to destract them?

im not saying they are stupid, just full of them selves.


this brings me to a different question...... who would win from X-Men Vs Street Fighter Vs Dragon Ball Z!?!?!?!?

[Roll]

That is a good point, Virtual. That is pretty much the quick glance of their battles. However, that goes along with the personality traits, and those were thrown away.

And is it a lengthy attack, Nantuko? Or is it just a split second type of thing?



Edited By Roll on Jan. 25 2003 at 18:45

[Nantuko Joe]

That is a good point, Virtual. That is pretty much the quick glance of their battles. However, that goes along with the personality traits, and those were thrown away.

And is it a lengthy attack, Nantuko? Or is it just a split second type of thing?
No offense Roll, but have you ever seen DBZ?

Taiyoken goes as follows:

THe user jumps up in front of the sun, fans his fingers in front of his face, yells "Taiyoken!" ("Solar Flare" in english), and the entire sky is lit up by a bright flash of light (it's pretty much the intensity of the sun, magnified, and shone DIRECTLY into the enemies' eyes. You can't dodge it. YOu can't stop it.

[Roll]

I told you before, I only saw a few episodes. I never saw anyone use the Taiyoken. I already understood the effects of it, but, once again, is it a lengthy attack or not?

[Yugi]

i think db even on ground with out specials have you ever seen how fast they go goku could go super saiyan 3 and have a ki level of 78,000,000 and u guys got to no sf and dbz were based upon the same fightting techniche usd in japan ki. just sf is a little more realistic you can actually find out yure ki lvl i seen it once i forget how and average adultski level is 5-7 ki
in dbz a z fighters ki in the buu stage even krillin (the weakes z fighter and strongest human) had a ki lvl of about 25,000,000 (half as much as cell) and in street fighter there ki lvls cant even match krillin only akuma could beat krillin.

[coolplayer2K2]

i say streetfighter because i love street fighter and has cool styles

[~virtualfighter~]

na.... its dbz, even though dbz ppl are kinda...... dum.....


but sf ppl will fight with skill, not just brute force. in dbaz, its who is stronger.... in sf, its whoever has the most techneuiqe

[G_GUNDAM]

man this is a no contest.

dbz would own all street fighters. just look how fast they fight. and they can fly. so street fighter doesnt stand a chance :laughlong:

[Nantuko Joe]

i think db even on ground with out specials have you ever seen how fast they go goku could go super saiyan 3 and have a ki level of 78,000,000 and u guys got to no sf and dbz were based upon the same fightting techniche usd in japan ki. just sf is a little more realistic you can actually find out yure ki lvl i seen it once i forget how and average adultski level is 5-7 ki
in dbz a z fighters ki in the buu stage even krillin (the weakes z fighter and strongest human) had a ki lvl of about 25,000,000 (half as much as cell) and in street fighter there ki lvls cant even match krillin only akuma could beat krillin.
Yugi, no offense, but never mention ki levels again. SSJ3 Goku's powerlevel was over 6x higher than what you just put him at. And Kuririn never had a "ki level" of 25 million. He never reaches 100 thousand. Personally, I don't think you have ANY idea of what yer talking about.

[~virtualfighter~]

yeah, i still rembember when vegeta was astounded that goku had a ki level of 12,000 or something :shocked:

[Nantuko Joe]

Roll: the attack takes place at the speed of light. It's an extremely bright flash of light.

virtualfighter: next time you post, make sure it has something to do with the topic at hand.

[Dan Hibiki]

NOW I start my research. Ack! College sucks...

[Scorponok]

i say streetfighter because i love street fighter and has cool styles
Ahh I just now notice how retarded my earlier posts were (and this one too). Just wanted to say, you won't get anywhere in persuasion using your opinion, you need to validate things with facts, many people could care less if you love Street Fighter or not. Heh, don't want to intrude on your debate

[Roll]

Trust me, Scorponok. It was either you, or Nantuko that would have used an entire post to talk about that. I'm glad it was you (no offence Nantuko, but you know why I am saying this ^.~).

[Nantuko Joe]

No offense taken

[Yugi]

i got the power lvls from some sight it stunk but that what it said.
sorry fo da mistakes i was tired real tired . and db would win cuz it was wrote that tey are strongest in the universe universe universe universe universe universe universe universe universe universe universe universe universe universe
universe universe universe universe universe universe universe
(sirry, igot carried away in the echoes)

and could they use brolly cuz hes in dbz but only movies.

[coolplayer2K2]

DB SUX STREETFIGHTER ALL DA WAY

[Scorponok]

DB SUX STREETFIGHTER ALL DA WAY
Brace yourselves for Nankunto's flaming, you say you're not a noob

[Nantuko Joe]

Yugi: We can't use brolly, because if you read the topic of the thread, it's Dragon Ball versus Street Fighter (not counting GT) and the it says "or anything contradicting the manga." Brolly is not real. he contradicts the manga.

Coolplayer: please don't spam in here. Man, yer like the tenth #### that I've had to tell that too. If you want to make a frigging post, make it intelligent. But senseless spam ######## like that just shows that yer more of a #### than we all thought.

[Roll]

Ok, I'll counter your Taiyoken from at least one character with this next one, which will do the exact same effect.

Rose.

Rose has a specific attack that reflects any and all types of projectiles, no matter how strong or fast or wide or low. The Aura Soul Spark is her trump card. During the attack (particularly when she swings her scarf) she has the ability to reflect any Projectile (includiong a Flash of light) attack back at the opponent, or stop physical attacks (Obviously) while at the same time adding the force of the Soul Spark. It is proven, and said in the book "All about Capcom" which is the official capcom handbook.

(My friend borrowed the book for me, but I had to return it before I could find anything that could prove anything about Gill...Sorry Dan.)



Edited By Roll on Jan. 30 2003 at 23:45

[Nantuko Joe]

The Taiyoken is not a projectile, not a beam, it's nothing that can be countered (unless you're on the other side of a mountain or something. It's an EXTREMELY bright flash of light. It does not travel like a normal attack at the opponent, nor is it reflectable. It's a bright light. Unless she can move at the speed of sound and deflect photons of light with her scarf, she can't counter it.

[Roll]

Of course she can do that! Why wouldn't she? She could also use her soul illusion to add on to the effect and make it way more effective.

[Nantuko Joe]

She can move at the speed of light? And she can use her scarf to deflect sunlight? I sincerely doubt it.

[Roll]

Well, actually, she could use the attack when he places his hands in front of his face, or (if he does this) when he screams "TAIYOKEN!". And, yes, her scarf can reflect light, because when she uses it for attacking and stuff, she sends her Soul Power through it. In this case, the scarf will react like a mirror, and mirrors can reflect light.

[Nantuko Joe]

What if Tien, Goku, and Kuririn pull off Taiyokens at the same time, from different directions? She may be able to counter ONE of them, but unless she can move faster than the speed of light, she can't counter ALL of them.

[Roll]

Then Rose can just read their minds, tell gill what their going to do, and he'll just use his elemental abilities to surround everyone with ice before they can even use the attack, whic will reflect the light away from them, leaving them unharmed. Dhalsim can also do the same as Rose.

Or, if you want Rose to stay by herself, then Rose can use the Soul illusion to creat 3-5 of herself, and then use the Aura Soul Spark in just as many different directions.



Edited By Roll on Feb. 01 2003 at 23:28

[Nantuko Joe]

And she can clone herself 3-5 times faster than the speed of light? And ice does not deflect light.

And there's no way in hell she can read their minds, tell Gill what they're gonna do, and have him surround them with ice in the time it takes them to yell "Taiyoken." That's the attack. The attack takes about one second to prepare for (user puts hands in front of face and yells "taiyoken,"), and the actual ability is merely the suns rays being amplified to the point of temporary blindness. Here is how long it takes to perform a Taiyoken:

First click here (http://www.boomspeed.com/nantuko/Taiyoken1.JPG), then click here. (http://www.boomspeed.com/nantuko/Taiyoken2.JPG)

If yer still not convinced, then try this (http://www.boomspeed.com/nantuko/Taiyoken3.jpg), then this. (http://www.boomspeed.com/nantuko/Taiyoken4.gif)

I'd also like to know, when you get a chance, what affiliation the SF characters are (evil, neutral, or good), because it would help me enormously in this debate.

[Roll]

Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.



Edited By Roll on Feb. 02 2003 at 19:54

[mas]

roll your go na be banne becauce your putin planty of post in ere?

[MasterX05]

........................... no comment *just sits in his chair*

[Nas]

lol,mas,thats the point of this topis,to explain your *view's*
so,she can post as much as she likes,no 1 cares,back to this topic,roll,all street-fighter would loose to dbz,although rose is phychic,she still cant monouver properly,she can tell gill,but still get blasted by a kamehameha or other move.although street-fighter have realistic fighting styles,they could never beat goku and the gang.The only simple way i can think of
is is street-fighter charaters could fight in the air,thats all i can think of,cause i dont think alot,lol :D

[Nantuko Joe]

Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.
Well, I have never seen an aura spark before, so I'll have to take your word for it.

And she can't read their minds and tell Gill what to do in less than one second, literally. And until Hibiki finishes his research, Gill can't do ANYTHING "instantly", unless you can find something written by the creator of Street Fighter and Gill that states otherwise.

And how can she counter three attacks faster than the speed of light? If you're thinking of what you said before, about her cloning herself 3-5 times, well, think about this:

She'd have to clone herself 3-5 times AND use the "Aura Spark Illusion" before all three of them can yell "Taiyoken" (which takes literally about one second to yell). I doubt that's possible. I SINCERELY doubt it.

And you said she can only do 3-5 clones? How about if Kuririn uses his "tri-form" and Tien uses his "twelve eyes"? Then she'd have to counter the Taiyokens of four Tiens, three Kuririns, and a Goku.

And please take note: Those two Taiyoken pictures occurred when Goku had a PL of about 16,000 and Kuririn had about 2,000. After the Buu Saga (or whenever this battle is taking place), their powerlevels are in the VERY high millions/low billions (except for Kuririn and Tien, they're about 100,000 each). They can pull it off even quicker then. Cell used a Taiyoken in the Cell Saga, and he pulled it off in mere nanoseconds slower than instantly.

[Nas]

Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

[QOUTE]And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.
Well, I have never seen an aura spark before, so I'll have to take your word for it.
yeah,i havent heard of it either

[azn_boi55]

i vote for dragonball z becauce is better right :)

[SBYRD5]

Hmm Rose has mind reading powers...hehe.

Oh yea Joe don't forget the quicker the attack is the less powerful than it could be.(Umm I realize you already knew that...I just stated that to feel special)

Hmm Tien is powerful from what I've seen him do in the Buu Saga.When he reflected that blast from majin buu with one of his own.

[Nantuko Joe]

Hmm Rose has mind reading powers...hehe.

Oh yea Joe don't forget the quicker the attack is the less powerful than it could be.(Umm I realize you already knew that...I just stated that to feel special)

Hmm Tien is powerful from what I've seen him do in the Buu Saga.When he reflected that blast from majin buu with one of his own.
Um...not necessarily. Kid Buu's Chikyuu Hokai no Ichigeki was charged up and launched in mere seconds, and it would have killed off Goku and Vegeta easily. Furiza's Daichiretsuzan is EXTREMELY fast, and is fired almost instantaneously, and can pierce extremely strong armor. Both Piccolo's Bakuriki Demon Blast and Rikkum's Eraser Cannon are extremely powerful, and can be launched in mere seconds.

Taiyoken, however (if you knew anything about DBZ) is not a direct-damage dealing attack. It's a blinding multiplication of sunlight. The only damage it causes is to the victim's retinas.

And although I know I'm somewhat hurting my own argument, I've got to say this: Tien isn't that powerful. His powerlevel never exceeds 100,000. When he deflected Buu's blast, you have to take this into account:

-Buu was using a standard energy dan.
-Tien used his Shin Kikouhou to block it, which is his most powerful attack.

[Nas]

is there no english words to those blasts,its kinda annoying :D

[Nantuko Joe]

Pfft...

Bakuriki Demon Blast = Bakuriki Demon Blast
Daichiretsuzan = Finger Beams (he used them in form 3 against piccolo)
Eraser Cannon = Eraser Cannon
Shin Kikouhou = Shin Kikouhou
Chikyuu Hokai no Ichigeki = Insane Destroy The Earth In One Attack Attack

[SBYRD5]

Joe I know of that move...and yes I do know of DBZ....and you know what the american version names sound better than your S.H.I.T.T.Y. original verision.

"Solar Flare".....Goku,Krillen,an Tien are the only Z-Fighters that performed this attack.(Cell also performed this...but he isn't exactly a good guy)*ahem* Tien was first seen using this Ki move on Master Roshi.Goku first used it in DBZ in the Sayian Saga(To my knowing) against the Transformed Sayian Prince.Krillen(Sounds better than stupid Kurrin or whatever...)
used it in a escape action to get away from Dodria...

Recoome controls the Eraser Cannon he stated that the power of it could reform a planet.

Frezia(Sounds better than Fruzia) used that attack on Piccolo,and Vegeta....I think he killed Krillen with something else.Oh and those Finger beams in the american version are called "Death Beams"......

Don't insult me Joe I'm just posting here I'm not insultng you.

------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:It doesn't matter Joe hmm blocking that beam proves that his power level is greatly under achived. I mean don't you recall when Cell defeated a weakened Piccolo,and absorbed Andriod 17.Cell was evenly matched with Android 16 and he was stated to be the strongest Andriod of them all,and don't you dare say,"Andriod 17 is stronger than 16...it's just because he was weakened during that battle with Piccolo.Andriod 17 stated,"We andriods stay at the same level of power unless we cease function....you humans break so easily.".....Vegeta had to be super sayian to even come close to the power of Andriod 18....17 is supposed to be at about the same power as her.Now, Cell absorbs 17 he is all super powerful he freaking breaks Andriod 16's skull....seriousily. Tien uses his Tri-Beam(America still rules) at FULL POWER and is able to hold back Cell....

********FLASHBACK*********
Piccolo=Was a Super Namek because of his fusion with Kame at the time. He put everythin he had into a blast against Cell at his First Level of power,and simply.....only knocked him back into the bay.Cell powers up with the Souls he has stolen....and defeats Piccolo.....Piccolo is stronger than Tien explain this......

[Nantuko Joe]

My bad, did not intend to insult you. And the statement about Rikkum's Eraser Gun must be filler, because not only have I never heard such a quote, but none exists in the manga. And if you knew that Taiyoken was not a damage-dealing attack, why did you make a statement about how it would be weak because it hapens so quick?

And the Japanese names sound so much cooler. The english ruined it. Solar flare? It's Taiyoken. Kame Hame ha Wave? It's a Kamehameha. Instant Transmission? It's Shunkan Idou. Ascended Saiya-jin? It's Super Saiya-jin 2. You catch my drift. And don't say "S.H.I.T.T.Y original version," because the original version is a million times better than the english version shiznit that we are introduced to every day on Cartoon Network.

[SBYRD5]

Ok admit this, The original Goku sounds more like a girl than the English version Goku.He sounds so stupid....

[EYO]

ummm......street figher vs dbz.....u crazy dawg dats just kill....
scratch up kill ........dis is just murda the whole degree, first, and second, to third degree murda.....

[Nantuko Joe]

SBYRD5: that's becuase the Japanese voice actor for Goku WAS girl. I think Goku sounds cooler in the Japanese version than in the english version, but that's just me.

EYO: DON'T SPAM THIS TOPIC!!! I think I'm gonna start a tally of how many ppl spam this thing. JHC, i'm getting pissed now.

[SBYRD5]

Joe you made the orignazation SFPOA.Perhaps it's time to start it back up again.

That makes sense Joe about Goku,but I've always been a fan of Tien,Piccolo,Vegeta.

I kinda like Krillen.

I don't like Gohan(I did like him as Teen Gohan SSJ2)
I don't like Goku(I did like him as SSJ3...his vioce deepens on both versions....and he looks awesome,and how he defeated Fruzia.)

Oh this is my last post here because I'm not exactly debating with you I'm spamming.

[Roll]

Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.
Well, I have never seen an aura spark before, so I'll have to take your word for it.

And she can't read their minds and tell Gill what to do in less than one second, literally. And until Hibiki finishes his research, Gill can't do ANYTHING "instantly", unless you can find something written by the creator of Street Fighter and Gill that states otherwise.

And how can she counter three attacks faster than the speed of light? If you're thinking of what you said before, about her cloning herself 3-5 times, well, think about this:

She'd have to clone herself 3-5 times AND use the "Aura Spark Illusion" before all three of them can yell "Taiyoken" (which takes literally about one second to yell). I doubt that's possible. I SINCERELY doubt it.

And you said she can only do 3-5 clones? How about if Kuririn uses his "tri-form" and Tien uses his "twelve eyes"? Then she'd have to counter the Taiyokens of four Tiens, three Kuririns, and a Goku.

And please take note: Those two Taiyoken pictures occurred when Goku had a PL of about 16,000 and Kuririn had about 2,000. After the Buu Saga (or whenever this battle is taking place), their powerlevels are in the VERY high millions/low billions (except for Kuririn and Tien, they're about 100,000 each). They can pull it off even quicker then. Cell used a Taiyoken in the Cell Saga, and he pulled it off in mere nanoseconds slower than instantly.
ok... about Gill:
Go here, and read up on Gill. This is also from the handbook of "All about capcom", and some things from the guy who wrote this. It shows that he can create and uncreate Fire and Ice out of no where. In other words, no need for water! It just happens! ^-^;
http://www.orochi.com/sffaq/characters.html
...Ok, so it may not be instantly. But Rose, Dhalsim, and a few others can read their minds, and tell Gill to place ice all around them before everyone can do the Taiyoken, which will take less than enough time to do so. The reading of minds is fast with Dhalsim, along with Rose.

Oh, and keep in mind that the site is not the entire handbook thing. The official "All about Capcom" thing has way more info in it. The site just has major details.

About the Rose theory:

It takes her less than a second to do get the clones. In the game, after you execute the Soul Illusion, she automatically get's the "other" Rose's to help her fight, which enables her 3-6 hits per attack, depending on the strength of the attack and the strength of the Soul Illusion. When combined with Aura Soul Spark (Version 2, where she does a weak punch>Roundhouse>Fierce Punch> Soul Spark in which the Soul Spark does three hits) she does up to 17 hits on one character with the attack. When combined with the Aura Soul Spark (Version 3, the one with the reflection) It can reflect more than one Projectile, whether it is Strong (fire Hadouken, Gou Hadouken), a normal one (like a hadouken), or a "super Art" projectile (Messatsu Gou Hadou, Shinkuu Haduken, Kikoshou, Shinkuu Gaduken, Super Tiger Shot, etc.) right back at the opponent with the effect of a mirror (sort of) and she throws in a 3 hit Soul Spark, which, according to Tarkan's buddy in someplace earlier in this thread, numbs out the part of the body it hits. So 3 hits that make you numb, which in this case would spread through the body would make the person helpless, along with the reflection of the Taiyoken which is possible.

In general, there are only 9 directions to attack from (above, north, west, south, east, northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest), and Rose and her other 5 clones could probably handle helping the streetfighters escape the Taiyoken by surrounding them, and using the Aura Soul Spark just before they use Taiyoken.

And, by the time they could actually split themselves, Gill could freeze them or burn them up! ^-^;

[Nantuko Joe]

Even though that was not official bio on Gill, I figured out this much:

-Gill is not a god. Rather, he is "like a god." (you guys kept saying that he WAS a god, and cannot go to hell.)
-Gill can summon and unsummon fire and ice
-Gill's organization does not build him bodies. Rather, they build about 1,000 bodies to fight each other, and the strongest becomes the new "Emperor." Gill's body was the one who won the fight, and so he became the new "Emperor." (therefore, if Gill dies, he does not get a new body, but rather, a new non-Gill "Emperor" takes his place.)
-Gill's ability to survive a Shun Goku Satsu is not in the official Cannon storyline (so in this debate he can indeed go to hell)
-*Even if it did happen in the official storyline, surviving does not mean that he can "survive in hell," as Hibiki said. It said "he simply resurrected himself."

That information changes this entire debate that Gill is included in. Now for Rose...

A Taiyoken cannot be reflected in any way, because it is not a beam, projectile, or anything. It's a brightening of the sunlight. So even if it could be reflected, she'd have to move faster than the speed of light (impossible) Also, I timed myself, and it takes about .8 seconds to yell "Taiyoken." It is not possible for Rose to create 5 clones, have them each face a different direction to try and counter an attack, and launch their counters in .8 seconds. Even though she can launch the clones in .8 seconds, it does not mean that her reaction speed is .8 seconds. So in .8 seconds, Rose would have to realize that an attack is coming, then launch the clones, then have them use the Aura Spark. And I don't see that happening in .8 seconds.Nor can anyone read the minds of Goku, Tien and Kuririn, sense the attack coming, tell everyone else, and have them do what they need to do, in .8 seconds.

And as far as Gill goes, he would also need to know what is happening in order to form the ice/fire. To say his combined reaction speed and the time it takes to form the ice is less than .8 seconds is insane. So to say that in the time it takes for Kuririn and Tenshinhan to split themselves (which is less than a second) Gill could freeze/burn them is also insane, because his reaction speed is also insane.

[Roll]

Nantuko. Get this through your head. Taiyoken is the brightening of the light from the sun, correct? Then any large mirror can reflect the light away. It does not matter how strong the light is, it can still be reflected off of a mirror, or even a watch. So, Rose CAN reflect it. Her clones come out instantly, not in .8 seconds. They just... appear, and then get to work immediately. They don't come out one after another, or anything like that.

Or, if you don't believe it takes that amount of time for Rose to split up and stuff, then believe this. Her Soul Illusion takes at least the same amount of time to start and finish as it does for Krillin and Tien to split themselves. Reading their mind does not take an immense amount of time. Rose can do that while fighting, or doing something. And who said that she would need to know about the attack beforehand? She could use Soul Illusion immediately, and then she would be ready to do whatever, and while using the Soul Illusion, she can read everyones minds. After finishing the Soul Illusion and reading a mind (which should be finished at the same time), and then she could seperate the "clones" to use the Aura Soul Spark as a protection. Or, Rose could read their mind, tell Gill, who could form the ice. It doesn't matter what you think, Joe. Rose can read a mind in mere milliseconds, and then tell Gill to do what he needs to do. Besides, at the start of everything, Gill could just burn them up, or freeze them, leaving a select few.

[Nantuko Joe]

Nantuko. Get this through your head. Taiyoken is the brightening of the light from the sun, correct? Then any large mirror can reflect the light away. It does not matter how strong the light is, it can still be reflected off of a mirror, or even a watch. So, Rose CAN reflect it. Her clones come out instantly, not in .8 seconds. They just... appear, and then get to work immediately. They don't come out one after another, or anything like that.

She'd have to move FASTER THAN LIGHT to form a mirror of sorts. And in your above post, you said she can form clones in less than a second, and now you say she can do so instantly. So unless you can find me OFFICIAL CITATIONS that say she can do so instantly, she cannot. But either way, no character in street fighter, nor any character in DBz, can move faster than the speed of light, and cannot avoid a taiyoken

Or, if you don't believe it takes that amount of time for Rose to split up and stuff, then believe this. Her Soul Illusion takes at least the same amount of time to start and finish as it does for Krillin and Tien to split themselves. Reading their mind does not take an immense amount of time. Rose can do that while fighting, or doing something. And who said that she would need to know about the attack beforehand? She could use Soul Illusion immediately, and then she would be ready to do whatever, and while using the Soul Illusion, she can read everyones minds. After finishing the Soul Illusion and reading a mind (which should be finished at the same time), and then she could seperate the "clones" to use the Aura Soul Spark as a protection. Or, Rose could read their mind, tell Gill, who could form the ice. It doesn't matter what you think, Joe. Rose can read a mind in mere milliseconds, and then tell Gill to do what he needs to do. Besides, at the start of everything, Gill could just burn them up, or freeze them, leaving a select few.

Once again, Rose cannot read a mind, relate that information to Gill, and have him form ice or fire or whatever in .8 seconds. Furthermore, where does it STATE by an OFFICIAL SOURCE that she can perform these abilities INSTANTLY, as in WITHOUT THE PASSAGE OF TIME? There are only two abilities that can be used INSTANTLY (without the passage of time), and they are Shunkan Idou and Kai Kai, and are possessed by members of the DBZ team. Unless you can find an OFFICIAL SOURCE that states that these abilities can be used IMMEDIATELY, or INSTANTLY, then they cannot be performed so. Shunkan Idou and Kai Kai are STATED to occur without the passage of time, so they cannot be disputed.

[Roll]

Ok then. I'll play it your way. Find me an official source that says that the Taiyoken cannot be blocked, and that it comes out in .8 seconds.



Edited By Roll on Feb. 09 2003 at 22:41

[SBYRD5]

Sunglasses....

[Nantuko Joe]

Ok then. I'll play it your way. Find me an official source that says that the Taiyoken cannot be blocked, and that it comes out in .8 seconds.
Let me see...Taiyoken is a brightening of sunlight (stated by Toriyama). If it is a brightening of sunlight, that means that the sun particles move at the speed of light (stated by the laws of physics). Therefore, in order to "block" the sunlight, one would have to move faster than the sunlight. in order to move faster than the sunlight, one would have to move faster than the speed of light.

And I may be wrong about .8 seconds. Just yell "Taiyoken" (pronounced Tay-oh-ken) as loud and fast as you can. That's how long the attack takes.

SBYRD5: Sunglasses cannot shield someone from light that is 10x or higher more intense than the sun.

[SBYRD5]

When I said "Sunglasses" I ment perhaps not making that vunerable time of not seeing so long.

Also Joe you don't need to see to fight there is the other 4 senses....

[Nantuko Joe]

When I said "Sunglasses" I ment perhaps not making that vunerable time of not seeing so long.

Also Joe you don't need to see to fight there is the other 4 senses....
Sunglasses wouldn't make ANY difference. When the light is that bright, it wouldn't matter.

And puh-leez. you're saying that if I tied a scarf around your eyes, you could still fight me using the senses of touch, sound, smell, and taste? If you read the manga, once the enemies are blinded, they stand around blithering uselessly, clawing at their eyes. Even if they COULD fight further while blind, they would do so horribly. And none of the SF characters, to my knowledge, can sense ki, which gives the DBZ characters an advantage.

[SBYRD5]

I'm not discussing the sensing of "power levels". I'm making a clear fact wait haven't you seen "Blood Sport". The guy was blinded by the powder and had to use his other senses to defeat his fowe.

Joe, what you just proved to me in that post is that most of the fighters in BZ arn't TRUE Martial Artist but very skilled fighters.

I recall RYU and KEN training with blind folds before,and they fought each other just as good if they had seeing eyes....

[Nantuko Joe]

I'm not discussing the sensing of "power levels". I'm making a clear fact wait haven't you seen "Blood Sport". The guy was blinded by the powder and had to use his other senses to defeat his fowe.

Joe, what you just proved to me in that post is that most of the fighters in BZ arn't TRUE Martial Artist but very skilled fighters.

I recall RYU and KEN training with blind folds before,and they fought each other just as good if they had seeing eyes....
Yeah, I have seen bloodsport. And he was pretty much stubling around, with his hands out in front of him. When he defeated his foe, he merely threw the grenade back at him (or something like that). And really, the only other sense you can use in a fight is hearing. If you use the sense of touch to feel your opponent, he's gonna know you're there. And you're definately not gonna use the senses of taste and smell (unless your opponent is a blob of dog ########).

And all of the characters in DBZ are indeed TRUE martial artists. Ever seen the first part? Called "Dragonball"? When Goku was a kid/young adult? That's all they used, martial arts. However, when they finally got to the DBZ area of it, they were so strong and so quick, martial arts wouldn't mean anything when you can pull off a few zanzokens and fly. When you have so much power and speed that you can destroy the world without even trying, and can fly around the earth eight times in 28 minutes, martial arts aren't really needed.

And Ryu and Ken are buttbuddies. They can practically know what each other's about to do before they do it, because they know each other so well. It's like putting Goku and Vegeta with blindfolds against each other: they know each other well enough to know what they're about to do. Blindfold Ryu and make him face Akuma, or someone else, and he'd have a much harder time.

And besides, DBZ characters have the ability to sense ki, and one can fight fairly easily while blind and deaf if they can sense their opponent's ki.

[SBYRD5]

Yea, that is all true,but you don't have to smell like garbage to be smelled.Blood has a smell to it....so does sweat.I suppose Ryu and Ken being butt buddies may be true...*ahem*. I was using them as an example...I suppose it wasn't the best one....

Actually, Joe you just made me think.When the DBZ characters where weaker and used basic martial arts...they didn't sense Ki then correct. They used there other senses....just how the SF fighters would.

Now you said that the DBZ fighters would just do a Solar Flare...then a Distructo Disc and it would be over....For you to make such a statment the DBZ fighters must plan an attack like that.As you said before with all the counter comments against this combination you made....they wouldn't know what the other party has planned for them in battle.....so basicly the DBZ fighters would never start a battle that way....that is truely invalid....they spare with there enemies and feel out there strenghts...

(Besides combinations like that are only used when fighting enemies that are stronger than themselves)

------------------------------------------------------------

Joe I find this topic unfair...you said that exploiting Goku's weakness for food is invalid.Just like using Vegeta's Pride against himself......actually with those things to exploit this debate would actually carve more towards SF....

[DA_VIPA]

its really hard to compare sf to dbz when they are almost completely different!! ryu has only his darkside but dat goku guy had like 4/5 transformations ssj1/2/3/4...and ryu only has his fists,kicks and hadouken to fight..where as goku can do a whole load of $hit more...

[KickurassKen]

its really hard to compare sf to dbz when they are almost completely different!! ryu has only his darkside but dat goku guy had like 4/5 transformations ssj1/2/3/4...and ryu only has his fists,kicks and hadouken to fight..where as goku can do a whole load of $hit more...
dbz has to much power to compare to sf dbz will rule in the end. :angry:

[Nantuko Joe]

Yea, that is all true,but you don't have to smell like garbage to be smelled.Blood has a smell to it....so does sweat.I suppose Ryu and Ken being butt buddies may be true...*ahem*. I was using them as an example...I suppose it wasn't the best one....

Actually, Joe you just made me think.When the DBZ characters where weaker and used basic martial arts...they didn't sense Ki then correct. They used there other senses....just how the SF fighters would.

Now you said that the DBZ fighters would just do a Solar Flare...then a Distructo Disc and it would be over....For you to make such a statment the DBZ fighters must plan an attack like that.As you said before with all the counter comments against this combination you made....they wouldn't know what the other party has planned for them in battle.....so basicly the DBZ fighters would never start a battle that way....that is truely invalid....they spare with there enemies and feel out there strenghts...

(Besides combinations like that are only used when fighting enemies that are stronger than themselves)

------------------------------------------------------------

Joe I find this topic unfair...you said that exploiting Goku's weakness for food is invalid.Just like using Vegeta's Pride against himself......actually with those things to exploit this debate would actually carve more towards SF....
No, in DB, they still used their ability to sense the opponent's ki, because when they're pulling off Zanzokens (after-images) and such, they can't exactly see nor hear where the opponent is going to be next. So no, you're not correct.

If they start a battle off with a Taiyoken, the opposition would be blinded for a few seconds, and knowing Vegeta, he'd just powerup a massive attack just to kill them (IE: Bikubang or Final Flash). Or, Kuririn can hit the Taiyoken, and then use a Kienzan, and that would be HIS plan, totally independent from any other plan they would have. Same thing would go if Tien uses a Shinshin no Ken to create clones, each uses a Taiyoken, and then have each clone use a Shin Kikouhou.

And I never said exploiting Goku's weakness for food would be invalid. Hibiki did. Earlier on, Hibiki said that no character personalities are valid in this debate, so Gotenks wouldn't be so cocky, Goku wouldn't be so cautious and forgiving, etc. Hibiki did this, well, because I said that in a NORMAL fight, Kid Buu wouldn't be teaming with Goku, and Akuma wouldn't be teaming with Ryu (etc, you get the idea) so Hibiki rid us of character personalities.

[BRODIEMAN]

CauSE gOkU cAnZ detrsoZ dA uNIverz

[Scorponok]

Post why you think each would win(and don't say dumb things like, "because gOkU cAnZ detrsoZ dA uNIverz"), back up your evidence also.
Did you not see that, or are you really that stupid? Or maybe, you're just a noob :biggrin: I really think it was the last one. I'm justa waitin for the perfect time to enter the debate.. (and trying to read the whole damn thing) :biggrin:



Edited By Scorponok on Feb. 17 2003 at 19:11

[BRODIEMAN]

It was just a joke

[SBYRD5]

Well Dan made this debate easily one sided then....

Anyone could see without those weaknesses to explore...DBZ would own Street Fighter hands down.

[DarkOmega]

All i got to say is street fighter is the best but is goku nad ryu got into a fight goku would win with his fire ball

[Nantuko Joe]

All i got to say is street fighter is the best but is goku nad ryu got into a fight goku would win with his fire ball
Wow....that was deep....

I once again (literally, for like the sixtieth time in this entire topic) ask that anyone who does not have an INTELLIGENT contribution for this topic to simply not post. it's that simple.

[pip99]

has any1 even seen street fighter alpha on dvd??

[Nantuko Joe]

Please. If you have nothing intelligent and on-topic to say, don't say anything at all.

[pip99]

Please. If you have nothing intelligent and on-topic to say, don't say anything at all.
r talking 2 me?
????

[iori]

ok this has to stop dbz would win because they can blow them selves up and anything standing in there way for thousands of miles even more ending anyone and anything,and yes he's talking to you :withstupid::angryfire:

[Wave Master]

Street fighter would win dbz people would lose but think about it if the dbz people never learned to turn into supersaiyin they would lose to every fight but street fighter is different unlike dbz they don't run away every time they have a fight. :D can you picture goku run away from a fight with ryu yeah becuz he runs away on most of his fights and dbz people always train before a big fight ex. cell games, androids, frieza, buu, vegeta and nappa. Also everyone thinks that dbz would win that's only becuz they turn supersaiyin woop de doo I can do the same go to a supermarket and dye my hair blonde and go buy green contacts and shave every hair on my body and get hair extensions and wow I look like a supersayin

[Nantuko Joe]

pip99 said...

r talking 2 me?

Um...yeah. What does the SF Alpha anime have to do with the debate?

iori said...

ok this has to stop dbz would win because they can blow them selves up and anything standing in there way for thousands of miles even more ending anyone and anything,and yes he's talking to you

Thousands of miles? Get real. Also, this is a somewhat-equal powerlevel debate. In other words, the Street Fighter team is in the same range (hundreds of millions) as the DBZ team. Also, the weaker people in DBZ (Tien, Yamucha, etc) are also stronger, just for the purpose of the debate.

Wave Master said...

Street fighter would win dbz people would lose but think about it if the dbz people never learned to turn into supersaiyin they would lose to every fight but street fighter is different unlike dbz they don't run away every time they have a fight. can you picture goku run away from a fight with ryu yeah becuz he runs away on most of his fights and dbz people always train before a big fight ex. cell games, androids, frieza, buu, vegeta and nappa. Also everyone thinks that dbz would win that's only becuz they turn supersaiyin woop de doo I can do the same go to a supermarket and dye my hair blonde and go buy green contacts and shave every hair on my body and get hair extensions and wow I look like a supersayin

Are you serious? First off, even if this wasn't an equal powerlevel fight, the Saiya-jins in DBZ, even while NOT as a Super Saiya-jin, have powerlevels in the high millions. Hell, while on earth, Vegeta could have easily destroyed the Planet Earth, and he had a powerlevel of about 24,000 (while using the Gyarriku ho). The strongest Street Fighter could probably barely destroy a large building with a ki blast.

Also, could you please tell me when Goku ran away from a fight? Because I have a complete version of the manga, and not once did Goku ever try to run away from a fight. Even if his legs are broken, he still tries to fight.

You are also an idiot. Super Saiya-jin is not simply a change of hair and eye color. Super Saiya-jin multiplies one's powerlevel by around 30-40x. So please know your information before posting something useless such as you just posted, because you really don't know what you're talking about.

[iori]

[quote:post_uid13="Wave Master"]Street fighter would win dbz people would lose but think about it if the dbz people never learned to turn into supersaiyin they would lose to every fight but street fighter is different unlike dbz they don't run away every time they have a fight. :D can you picture goku run away from a fight with ryu yeah becuz he runs away on most of his fights and dbz people always train before a big fight ex. cell games, androids, frieza, buu, vegeta and nappa. Also everyone thinks that dbz would win that's only becuz they turn supersaiyin woop de doo I can do the same go to a supermarket and dye my hair blonde and go buy green contacts and shave every hair on my body and get hair extensions and wow I look like a supersayin[/quote:post_uid13]
how dare you moke the saiyins :angryfire: how dare you.....

[Kingryu1]

Street fighter would win dbz people would lose but think about it if the dbz people never learned to turn into supersaiyin they would lose to every fight but street fighter is different unlike dbz they don't run away every time they have a fight. :D can you picture goku run away from a fight with ryu yeah becuz he runs away on most of his fights and dbz people always train before a big fight ex. cell games, androids, frieza, buu, vegeta and nappa. Also everyone thinks that dbz would win that's only becuz they turn supersaiyin woop de doo I can do the same go to a supermarket and dye my hair blonde and go buy green contacts and shave every hair on my body and get hair extensions and wow I look like a supersayin
how dare you moke the saiyins :angryfire: how dare you.....
lmfao how gay are you. it's a goddamn cartoon show you dumbass.

[SBYRD5]

------------------------------------------------------------

No, in DB, they still used their ability to sense the opponent's ki, because when they're pulling off Zanzokens (after-images) and such, they can't exactly see nor hear where the opponent is going to be next. So no, you're not correct.

If they start a battle off with a Taiyoken, the opposition would be blinded for a few seconds, and knowing Vegeta, he'd just powerup a massive attack just to kill them (IE: Bikubang or Final Flash). Or, Kuririn can hit the Taiyoken, and then use a Kienzan, and that would be HIS plan, totally independent from any other plan they would have. Same thing would go if Tien uses a Shinshin no Ken to create clones, each uses a Taiyoken, and then have each clone use a Shin Kikouhou.

And I never said exploiting Goku's weakness for food would be invalid. Hibiki did. Earlier on, Hibiki said that no character personalities are valid in this debate, so Gotenks wouldn't be so cocky, Goku wouldn't be so cautious and forgiving, etc. Hibiki did this, well, because I said that in a NORMAL fight, Kid Buu wouldn't be teaming with Goku, and Akuma wouldn't be teaming with Ryu (etc, you get the idea) so Hibiki rid us of character personalities.


If the DBZ fighters have a better fighting power than the SFers why would they use such strong combinations on weaklings........(I mean weak compared to there strongest warriors) ...why would they use such combinations you are explaining.

THEY WOULD NEVER START A MATCH THAT WAY NEVER!!!!! The DBZ fighters would sense there power levels then fight at partial strenght to see if any of the SF fighters are holding back....then if one of them could atleast stand hand to hand with one of the weaker DBZ fighters.....Yamcha,Tien,etc......then maybe those combinations would be used....

(Note:You already know this,but..I'm just restating it...Krillen would never use his signature death move Distructo Disc. Unless his opponent is far stronger than him....(Like almost everone he has battle....he didn't use a Distructo Disc on Guldo of the ginyu force....and his power level was way lower than krillens....besides there personalities....wouldn't allow them to finish someone with a dirty tactic you mentioned....)

I still believe that Tien was far stronger in the series than he was given credit for...

[Nantuko Joe]

------------------------------------------------------------

No, in DB, they still used their ability to sense the opponent's ki, because when they're pulling off Zanzokens (after-images) and such, they can't exactly see nor hear where the opponent is going to be next. So no, you're not correct.

If they start a battle off with a Taiyoken, the opposition would be blinded for a few seconds, and knowing Vegeta, he'd just powerup a massive attack just to kill them (IE: Bikubang or Final Flash). Or, Kuririn can hit the Taiyoken, and then use a Kienzan, and that would be HIS plan, totally independent from any other plan they would have. Same thing would go if Tien uses a Shinshin no Ken to create clones, each uses a Taiyoken, and then have each clone use a Shin Kikouhou.

And I never said exploiting Goku's weakness for food would be invalid. Hibiki did. Earlier on, Hibiki said that no character personalities are valid in this debate, so Gotenks wouldn't be so cocky, Goku wouldn't be so cautious and forgiving, etc. Hibiki did this, well, because I said that in a NORMAL fight, Kid Buu wouldn't be teaming with Goku, and Akuma wouldn't be teaming with Ryu (etc, you get the idea) so Hibiki rid us of character personalities.


If the DBZ fighters have a better fighting power than the SFers why would they use such strong combinations on weaklings........(I mean weak compared to there strongest warriors) ...why would they use such combinations you are explaining.

THEY WOULD NEVER START A MATCH THAT WAY NEVER!!!!! The DBZ fighters would sense there power levels then fight at partial strenght to see if any of the SF fighters are holding back....then if one of them could atleast stand hand to hand with one of the weaker DBZ fighters.....Yamcha,Tien,etc......then maybe those combinations would be used....

(Note:You already know this,but..I'm just restating it...Krillen would never use his signature death move Distructo Disc. Unless his opponent is far stronger than him....(Like almost everone he has battle....he didn't use a Distructo Disc on Guldo of the ginyu force....and his power level was way lower than krillens....besides there personalities....wouldn't allow them to finish someone with a dirty tactic you mentioned....)

I still believe that Tien was far stronger in the series than he was given credit for...
You apparently did not understand, or chose to ignore, when I said that CHARACTER PERSONALITIES ARE NULL AND VOID IN THIS DEBATE. As in, you can't say "DBZ would start off at partial strength yadda yadda yadda", because that is their personality. Personalities are a no-no in this debate. As in, you can't say "Kuririn wouldn't use Kienzan etc etc" because, once again, you're talking about his PERSONALITY. This debate does NOT include the personality traits of SF or DBZ. Therefore, in this debate, Kuririn can indeed use Kienzan (what you dubbies call Destructo Disc) without warning.

You also apparently did not understand, or chose to ignore, when I said that THIS IS AN EQUAL-POWERLEVEL FIGHT. If this was not an equal powerlevel fight, DBZ would win within moments. The Z fighters (minus the humans) have powerlevels in the high hundred millions, a couple in the billions, while, judging from the power of the attacks of SF, the SFers have powerlevels far below 10,000 (Vegeta, with a power of 24,000 while using his Gyarriku ho, had the abilit to blow up the earth. None of the SFers have this kind of power.

Because of that, this is an equal powerlevel/range type of fight. As in, all of the fighters are about a few hundred million normally, and then they can increase in power with any transformations they might have. This includes the abilities to go Super Saiya-jin, and whatever power increase abilities that SF possesses.

You should carefully read that post, realize your big misunderstanding/mistake/whatever, and then post again should you choose.

[TarkanX]

DB"Z" wins, we can all give up now.... SSJ2 vegetto would be way too fast before Gill can heat the weather or freeze it. The other SF chaarcters can't do much except buy some time.

8 months jeez.... DB"Z" has one, and so has the people who supported it.

And just so this topic can end, I'll show you what the SF characters can onyl do against DB"Z" characters.


Adon: nothing

Shin Akuma: The DB"Z" characters are faster and have more chi power, even though Akuma split Ayers Rock in half, the DB"Z" characters can do much more.

Alex: nothing

Hugo: even with their great defense, he's just like Rikuum, and Rikuum was beaten.

Balrog: nothing

Birdie: nothing

Blanka: nothing

Cammy: nothing

Charlie: Though his sonic booms are as fast as the speed of light, and are like the slice of a kitana blade, and the fact that he can chuck so mmany without wasting much energy, the DB"Z" characters that are faster than the speed of light will take him down.

Chunli: nothing

Cody: nothing

Dan: nothing

Dee Jay: nothing

Dhalsim:

Dudley: nothing

Eagle: nothing

E. honda: nothing

Elena: nothing

Fei Long: nothing

Geki: nothing

Gen: his assasin techniques wont work since he's not fast enough to tuch the DB"Z" characters.

Gill:

Guile: he's a lesser version of charlie

Guy: nothing

Ibuki: nothing

12 dolls: nothing

Joe: nothing

karin: nothing

Ken: nothing

Lee: nothing

Maki: nothing

Makoto: nothing

M. Bison: he'll put up a tough fight, but not one that the DB"Z" characters would have to try their hardest

Necro: nothing

Oro: he's like the DB"Z" warriors, though I doubt he'd win if he was teamed up against, especially since theres a lot of many strong DB"Z" characters, and a few strong SF characters

Q: he has self destruct, but I doubt its powerful enough

R. Mika: nothing

remy: nothing

Retsu: nothing

Rolento: nothing

Rose: though she has powers of reflection, and illusion, she can easily be taken down, VERY easily, as easy as Charlie.

Evil Ryu/Ryu: nothing

Sagat: nothing

Sakura: nothing

Sean: nothing

Sodom: nothing

T Hawk: nothing

Twelve: He's like Buu, but a weaker version(powers wise, and speed wise)

Urien: He has the powers of wind/lightning, and earth. His body is made up of Iron, he can also make a reflector, still the DB"Z" characters won't have much of a problem beating him, though he would put up a better fight then Charlie.

Vega: nothing

Yun and yang: nothing

Zangief: nothing

basically, it'd be Dhalsim, Gill, Oro, and Twelve vs the rest of the DB"Z" cast

Twelve can be beaten since he's a lesser form of Buu(any Buu, doesn't matter which).

Dhalsim is really strong, since he can teleport, control minds, and destroy them, but he doesn't have experience in fighting, so he'll lose

Oro like I said before is like a DB"Z" characters, but whats good if theres a lot vs a few?

and Gill... well the DB"Z" characters will beat him with their swift movement


So there, DB"Z" wins......

[Nantuko Joe]

Wow...the biggest turncoat in the entire debate. Once standing up entirely for Street Fighter, it appears that TarkanX, the one who started this debate eight months ago, has finally switched sides. I agree with your entire post, except for one thing:

I was unaware there was an official source that credits a Sonic Boom with moving a the speed of light. Just by the name, you'd figure out that it moves at the speed of sound, not light. Even if it DID move at the speed of light, there is no DBZ character that can move faster than it (except for Goku's Shunkan idou to avoid it). But then again, he cannot launch like thirty Sonic Booms instantly, he'd prolly kill of one of the Z fighters, and then get toasted.

I also just realized that in this entire topic, all 98 pages of it, I was the ONLY ONE who stood up for DBZ. It was me, against Roll, Hibiki, you (Tarkan), and SBYRD (who didn't really take part in it until recently). And I held them all off long enough for Tarkan to come and provide proof of DBZ's victory.

Now if you all would excuse me, I think I'm gonna celebrate this victory with a lot of Black Haus and my soon-to-be-girlfriend. I'll see you all in about a week, when I'm done :D

[Disasta]

dragon ball would definitely win. if they could destroy a planet they could easily kill them

[Scorponok]

dragon ball would definitely win. if they could destroy a planet they could easily kill them
That's been said a hundred times already..

[TarkanX]

I meant sound, not light... my mistake.

[Nantuko Joe]

Well, if that's the case, than we know that Vegetto, SSJ3 Goku, SSJ and SSJ3 Gotenks, and Mystic Gohan can easily move faster than sound. Yep, DBZ's won.

[KidKrazyShit]

Yep, DBZ's won.
98 pages....I'd say it's about damn time.

[Dan Hibiki]

No... this... can't be...

[Tidus2K2]

Nantuko you actually stayed here and argued. Well i was here arguing and had dbz's side for a while till this topic got moved. And the only one who made a decent post was you. So i just ignored it.

[SBYRD5]

When you guys made the Street Fighters power levels even to the Dragon Ball Z fighters did you make the Street Fighters stronger or the DBZ fighters weaker?

[Nantuko Joe]

When you guys made the Street Fighters power levels even to the Dragon Ball Z fighters did you make the Street Fighters stronger or the DBZ fighters weaker?
I guess we made SF stronger, I guess. Hell, until about a week ago in an aim convo with hibiki I was unaware it was an equal PL fight. It kinda went like this:

SSJ Nantuko: When you think about it, DBZ could prolly destroy SF in an instant. DBZ fighters have powerlevels in the high hundred millions, and a couple are in the low billions. SF characters, judging by the powers of their attacks, would have powerlevels far below 5,000. Vegeta, with a powerlevel of 24,000 (on earth, using the Gyarriku Ho) had the ability to destroy the earth. No SF character has power anywhere near that. So in actuality, DBZ would in without question.

Saikyostudent: Well that's why we made it an equal powerlevel debate, so it would only be a debate about their special abilities and such.



However, now that I think about it, when Tarkan started this thread, he had no intention of making it an equal-PL debate. I believe he ALLUDED to it when he said

"I sincerely doubt Ryu could defeat Piccolo, unless he gave into the Dark Hadou"

because Piccolo is a few hundred million times stronger than Ryu normally.

Either way, it doesn't matter. WE WIN!

[SBYRD5]

But making there power levels even...hmmmm I don't know Joe?

I mean current skills of Street Fighters would be very good if thier strengths were multiplied....hmm...

A simple hadoken being at the same level as Goku's signature ki wave...hmmm SF might could win then...

Oh and thank you for sharing that info Joe.

[iori]

I went on every Dragonballz site (almost all) and i had the averge power levels of each character in the Buu saga.I compard what each site said what there power levels were and got the average

Android 18: 110,000,000
Kibit: 225,000,000
Kaioshin: 250,000,000
Doubler: 275,000,000
Fat Buu: 380,000,000
Majin Buu: 390,000,000
Majin Buu (with Gotenks and Piccolo): 500,000,000
Majin Buu (with Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan): 550,000,000
Goku: 5,000,000
Super Sayian 2 Goku: 360,000,000
Super Sayian 3 Goku: 450,000,000
Piccolo: 200,000,000
Gohan: 3,000,000
Super Sayian Gohan: 275,000,000
Super Sayian 2 Gohan: 325,000,000
Gohan (with Z Sword): 360,000,000
Mystic Gohan: 450,000,000
Goten: 30,000,000
Super Sayian Goten: 90,000,000
Trunks: 35,000,000
Super Sayian Trunks: 95,000,000
Gotenks: 250,000,000
Super Sayian Gotenks: 300,000,000
Super Sayian 3 Gotenks: 410,000,000
Vegeta: 5,000,000
Majin Vegeta: 360,000,000
Vegetto: 600,000,000
Super Sayian Vegetto: 750,000,000
Krillin: 1,500,000 :laugh:

[Nantuko Joe]

And each and every one of those leves are extremely innacurate. In fact, that is one of the worst level lists I've ever seen. Especially the levels for Goten, Trunks, and baseform Goku. You only have Goten, for example, gaining a 3x powerup from Super Saiya-jin transformation, while you gave Goku NO SSJ powerlevel. And you have Kuririn in the millions as far as powerlevels go, which is laughable.

IF we decided to use levels, we'd be using MY levels, because they're the most accurate levels around. However, since:
-we are NOT using levels
-this is NOT an equal pl debate
-the debate is OVER, DBZ has officially won (debate-wise and poll-wise)

I rest my case.

SBYRD: Like I said, I don't know if the topic was ever officially voted to be an equal pl topic. As far as I know, it was never officially turned to an equal pl topic. Even if it was, a hadoken would not be the same power as Goku's ki wave. Maybe BASE FORM Goku's wave, but not SSJ, SSJ2, or SSJ3 Goku's wave. Hell, to be fair, because Ryu and over 90% of the SF cast are HUMAN, then we should only make the humans of SF as strong as the humans from DBZ.

However, like I said above, the debate is over. case closed.

[Wave Master]

Nantuko Joe like I said to solidsnake in another post " calm down don't burst a vein or anything" it's just a cartoon it's not real life I think some people wanna say this to you too. :laughlong:

[Roll]

....I can't believe that even Tarkan said that Dbz would win... But, I does not matter anymore. I never had the strength for this debate, and I only kept going so that someone somewhere (I was hoping Dan) could find a way to win. I suppose SF is just too down to earth..

...Dan, If you can, please, consider my pm to you..

[Troy88]

I can't believe this thread isn't dead yet :shocked:

99 pages?!?

[Nantuko Joe]

I went on every Dragonballz site (almost all) and i had the averge power levels of each character in the Buu saga.I compard what each site said what there power levels were and got the average

Android 18: 110,000,000
Kibit: 225,000,000
Kaioshin: 250,000,000
Doubler: 275,000,000
Fat Buu: 380,000,000
Majin Buu: 390,000,000
Majin Buu (with Gotenks and Piccolo): 500,000,000
Majin Buu (with Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan): 550,000,000
Goku: 5,000,000
Super Sayian 2 Goku: 360,000,000
Super Sayian 3 Goku: 450,000,000
Piccolo: 200,000,000
Gohan: 3,000,000
Super Sayian Gohan: 275,000,000
Super Sayian 2 Gohan: 325,000,000
Gohan (with Z Sword): 360,000,000
Mystic Gohan: 450,000,000
Goten: 30,000,000
Super Sayian Goten: 90,000,000
Trunks: 35,000,000
Super Sayian Trunks: 95,000,000
Gotenks: 250,000,000
Super Sayian Gotenks: 300,000,000
Super Sayian 3 Gotenks: 410,000,000
Vegeta: 5,000,000
Majin Vegeta: 360,000,000
Vegetto: 600,000,000
Super Sayian Vegetto: 750,000,000
Krillin: 1,500,000 :laugh:
Just for the hell of it, i'm gonna take that PL list you gave me and write in the more accurate levels:

Android 18: 60,000,000
Kibit: 200,000,000
Kaioshin: 225,000,000
Doubler: 355,000,000
Majin Buu: 625,000,000
Fat Buu: 300,000,000
Thin Buu: 325,000,000
Super Buu: 800,000,000
Super Buu (with Gotenks and Piccolo): 1,250,000,000
Super Buu (w/Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo): 820,000,000
Super Buu (with Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan): 1,550,000,000
Goku: 5,000,000
SSJ Goku: 175,000,000
Super Sayian 2 Goku: 400,000,000
Super Sayian 3 Goku: 600,000,000
FPSSJ3 Goku: 700,000,000
Piccolo: 110,000,000
Gohan: 4,000,000
Super Sayian Gohan: 176,000,000
Super Sayian 2 Gohan: 345,000,000
Gohan (with Z Sword): 500,000,000
Mystic Gohan: 900,000,000
Goten: 3,000,000
Super Sayian Goten: 100,000,000
Trunks: 3,500,000
Super Sayian Trunks: 110,000,000
Gotenks: 14,700,000
Super Sayian Gotenks: 530,000,000
Super Sayian 3 Gotenks: 800,000,000
Vegeta: 5,000,000
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta: 400,000,000
Vegetto: 22,000,000
Super Sayian 2 Vegetto: 2,000,000,000
Krillin: 95,000

[SBYRD5]

Majin Buu (with Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan): 550,000,000
Umm Joe I think this one is a mistake...I'm not saying your wrong but gotenks wasn't in fusion during the absorbing of gohan.....his 30 mins... were up...

[Ludacris]

Majin Buu (with Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan): 550,000,000
Umm Joe I think this one is a mistake...I'm not saying your wrong but gotenks wasn't in fusion during the absorbing of gohan.....his 30 mins... were up...
yep that's true I remember......he absorbed Gohan cuz the fusion of gotenks was over..........anyway......maybe he made a mistake

[SBYRD5]

Ludacris Joe making a mistake never..... ;) :laughlong:

[Nantuko Joe]

Majin Buu (with Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan): 550,000,000
Umm Joe I think this one is a mistake...I'm not saying your wrong but gotenks wasn't in fusion during the absorbing of gohan.....his 30 mins... were up...
It was a typing mistake man...i just copied and pasted iori's original list and altered it, and merely forgot to change "Gotenks" to "Goten and Trunks"

You also cut off part of the powerlevel. I put 1,550,000,000, not 550,000,000.

[azn_boi55]

i vote for Dragon Ball becauce is cool

[azn_boi35]

i vote for Dragon Ball becauce is cool
thats not a really good reason ???

[Nantuko Joe]

WOULD YOU DAMN ####S STOP SPAMMING THIS DAMN TOPIC! CHRIST! HOW MANY TIMES MUST I FCUKING SAY IT?

[KidKrazyShit]

Joe: Just contact tark and have him close this topic. or a mod.

[iori]

[quote:post_uid13="azn_boi55"]i vote for Dragon Ball becauce is cool[/quote:post_uid13]
If thats all you have to say dont post here,its not a good reason :angryfire:

[$tony$]

yo but x-men is way better then dragon ball z