Street fighter vs. dragon ball(not counting gt.... - Or anything contradtcing the manga)

[Nantuko Joe]

wait, if gen purified his soul, why can't the z fighers do the same? how did he purify his soul? is there something you are not tell us?

princevegeta, you just took the words out of my mouth

Every time Akuma used the technique he came out unscathed. Thusly by determination of the occurences in the story, the attack is NOT a Kamikaze attack.

Well, by the description of the attack, that must be another one of the plotholes in SF storyline. If the attack affects ppl who have committed sins and killed ppl, then it should affect Akuma also

I can understand the androids not having a soul because Android 16 never comes back when everybody else who was killed by Cell is resurrected.

And neither did Android 17. ONly 18 came back, and that was because the wish was directed specifically at her

Oro's EX Yagyou Dama is where he rips off his sling and leaps into the air and forms an energy ball that takes up half the screen and hurls it at the person. It is one of the most damaging attacks in the Street Fighter world.

Can you give me a power-wise comparison to a DBZ attack?

Buu most certainly has a soul because Shenron resurrects Kid Buu as Ubuu, purified of his evil. Because he can be resurrected, that means that Buu has a soul, unlike Android 16 who can't be resurrected.

I figured it out. It wasn't Buu's soul that was resurrected into Ubuu. It was the soul of the Dai Kaioshin that Buu absorbed when he was first created by Bibidi. Therefore, it was the soul of the Dai Kaioshin that was brought back, not of Buu

[Dan Hibiki]

Android 18 was never killed. She was just barfed up by Cell if you recall, and the explosives were removed from her body using the wish.

They explain Akuma's ability to not die from the Shun Goku Satsu by saying that he knows how to defend himself in Hell. Once again, that is not a very good explanation, but it is the explanation nonetheless.

The EX Yagyou Dama may be comporable to the Genki Dama, but it would depend on how long he concentrated on it. It is a very large and incredibly damaging attack when he just hops up and throws it without concentrating. If he concentrated, it could be just as powerful or even more than the Genki Dama. It also doesn't matter if you throw it at somebody who's killed millions or a little kid full of innocence... it'll still hurt 'em. In that sense it is better than the Genki Dama, because it is not conditional.

Dai Kaioushin is forever a part of Fat Buu, which is the reason that Fat Buu is fat in the first place. Kid Buu had no fighters absorbed to resurrect as part of him.

[princevegetam]

if it's as powerful as the genki dama, then it would be powerful enough to destroy a planet?

[Dan Hibiki]

If he concentrated for long enough it could.

[princevegetam]

i believe that statement is "theoretical" , it looks fckin big and it can make fckin big explosions, but destroying a planet is a totally different story.

[TarkanX]

there is absolutely NO sf character(except maybe gill) that can manipulate ki as well as DBZ characters. so none of the SF characters can stop dbz beams or ki attacks.


Oro

[quote]
2. their bodies can

[princevegetam]

lol


well, yeah, that's what i said from the beginning. sf wins with 100% credit to gill. otherwise, dbz wins. there is no fckin way that oro or akuma has ki manipulation capabilities of dbz characters.

[Dan Hibiki]

You've never seen Oro or you might say otherwise.

Gill = a God
Goku = a scrub

Squish.

[Nantuko Joe]

Dan, you still never explained how Gen purified his soul. Because that is a VERY big advantage on the part of DBZ if they purify their souls.

Quote

And the attack cannot affect Goten, Trunks, and Goku, because seriously, they never killed anyone. Goku didn't kill Radditsu, Piccolo did. Goku never killed Baata or Rikum, he only crippled them. Vegeta killed them. Goku never killed Furiza, only crippled him. He also never killed any of the androids, none of the Cell Jrs, or Buu (since Goku didnt' kill Buu, the ppl of earth did) Therefore, Goku has never killed anyone, and is unaffected by the Satsu. Same goes for Goten and Trunks. They never killed anyone, and therefore are unaffected by the Satsu


in a nut shell, doing something bad is a sin.

First off, Goten and Trunks have never done anything bad. Second off, judgment of what is considered good and what is bad is relative and not defined in a set of morals. Originally, when you were arguing the SGS, you said past evils, like killing someone. Now, all of a sudden, you're talking about doing a teeny tiny bad thing or disobeying a parent. Give me a break

And the SGS is a super move, is it not? WHich means that a DBZ fighter may be able to end the fight against Akuma before Akuma gathers enough "super bar" energy to unleash the SGS

[Dan Hibiki]

GRRR... I said that Capcom THEMSELVES never explained how he did it, so I can't tell you how it happened!

Goku killed in Dragonball.

Goten and Trunks, Goten and Trunks... well, they weren't exactly the most well-behaved children in the world, but at the same time they never killed anybody. Despite this, they aren't strong enough to take Akuma when he doesn't use the SGS.

I have always said that my argument for the SGS is based on past murders.

DBZ characters pull out a Kame Hame Ha without charging up a little meter for them, right? SGS can be done like that too.

[princevegetam]

there's only one SF character that stands a chance....AND THAT'S GILL!

Oro, well nobody knows his true potential so i guess we'll have to wait and see in the next SF game or somethin

[TarkanX]

Dan, you still never explained how Gen purified his soul. Because that is a VERY big advantage on the part of DBZ if they purify their souls.


He said some Japanese words which released his soul.


And the SGS is a super move, is it not? WHich means that a DBZ fighter may be able to end the fight against Akuma before Akuma gathers enough "super bar" energy to unleash the SGS

Now your disproving what you said about super bars. Akuma just does the shun goku satsu, he did the shun goku satsu on gen, and he was still fighting Gen at his max, without any signs of being drained of his energy.

[Toon-Ryu]

Couldnt the Z fighters attack Akuma before he does his attack that you guys are talking about because the Z fighters are so fast the could probably hit Akuma before he does anything. About Goku and Vegeta fighting in hell. They could since when they were fighting Janeba and killed him using Goku and Vegeta Fusion.

[Nantuko Joe]

Goten and Trunks, Goten and Trunks... well, they weren't exactly the most well-behaved children in the world, but at the same time they never killed anybody. Despite this, they aren't strong enough to take Akuma when he doesn't use the SGS.

By themselves, they're not strong enough. However, they CAN fuse into Gotenks, who in turn can go SSJ3

DBZ characters pull out a Kame Hame Ha without charging up a little meter for them, right? SGS can be done like that too.

Ok, I can stand behind that

He said some Japanese words which released his soul.

So what's to stop the DBZ fighters from mumbling some Japanese incantation?

Now your disproving what you said about super bars. Akuma just does the shun goku satsu, he did the shun goku satsu on gen, and he was still fighting Gen at his max, without any signs of being drained of his energy.

So it's kinda like what Dan said? Or is the SGS a special move like the Hadoken

Couldnt the Z fighters attack Akuma before he does his attack that you guys are talking about because the Z fighters are so fast the could probably hit Akuma before he does anything. About Goku and Vegeta fighting in hell. They could since when they were fighting Janeba and killed him using Goku and Vegeta Fusion.

That occured in Movie #12, not in the manga. As we all know, the movies never happened in the DBZ storyline, and do not appear in the manga, so they can't be used in this debate

[Roll]

So what's to stop the DBZ fighters from mumbling some Japanese incantation?
2 things. Finding out what words to say, and saying it fast enough.

Couldnt the Z fighters attack Akuma before he does his attack that you guys are talking about because the Z fighters are so fast the could probably hit Akuma before he does anything.
The way they're arguing about it, I guess not. :dozing off:

[Nantuko Joe]

2 things. Finding out what words to say, and saying it fast enough.

Ummm...they don't need to say it while the attack is taking place....they can say it before the fight even begins and therefore evade the risk of being affected by the SGS

[princevegetam]

gill kicks all dbz ass

otherwise all other sf characters suck

period

[Nantuko Joe]

Ummm...no. not period.

[princevegetam]

it's not possible for gill to die, even if his body is destroyed his soul still lives. no other dbz character can compare to that.

[TarkanX]

So what's to stop the DBZ fighters from mumbling some Japanese incantation?

Taken from the SF plot canon guide

What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to hell. The
demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or not.
They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil characters, their
past sins will also haunt on top of the demons attacking them for that
split second. Gen survives this because he empties his spirit, heart and
mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means emptiness, nothingness. One of the
reasons why Gouken has the kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about
how strong the person is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind
and soul.


Guess that answers your question.

[Toon-Ryu]

this just came to my mind they cant destroy gill but he can still go to the world of the dead. If goku just uses his IT to take gill there and the just come back gill couldnt come back.

[princevegetam]

gill would still be alive cause he doesn't have a halo over his head

[Nantuko Joe]

it's not possible for gill to die, even if his body is destroyed his soul still lives. no other dbz character can compare to that.

However, that doesn't matter, since we're just talking about KO, and not kill

Taken from the SF plot canon guide

What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to hell. The
demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or not.
They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil characters, their
past sins will also haunt on top of the demons attacking them for that
split second. Gen survives this because he empties his spirit, heart and
mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means emptiness, nothingness. One of the
reasons why Gouken has the kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about
how strong the person is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind
and soul.


Guess that answers your question.

Bada-BOOM. Therefore, all the DBZ characters have to do is say "Onore wo mu ni suru" and they're scott free. Thanks tark

this just came to my mind they cant destroy gill but he can still go to the world of the dead. If goku just uses his IT to take gill there and the just come back gill couldnt come back.

Goku can't use his Instantaneous Movement to go to the afterlife. Only two people can do that: Uranai Baba and Kibit. But yes, that is INDEED an interesting point/strategy.

Tarkan, could that work?

gill would still be alive cause he doesn't have a halo over his head

Yes, but he'd still be stuck in hell, and no way to teleport between dimensions to return to the fight.

Toon-Ryu, I think you've just found a way for me to win this debate. Thank you SOOOOO much!

[TarkanX]

Bada-BOOM. Therefore, all the DBZ characters have to do is say "Onore wo mu ni suru" and they're scott free. Thanks tark


They don't know the words(at least most likely)


Goku can't use his Instantaneous Movement to go to the afterlife. Only two people can do that: Uranai Baba and Kibit. But yes, that is INDEED an interesting point/strategy.

Tarkan, could that work?


No, you just said the answer


Yes, but he'd still be stuck in hell, and no way to teleport between dimensions to return to the fight.

Toon-Ryu, I think you've just found a way for me to win this debate. Thank you SOOOOO much!

Only Kaiobito, and that old woman could do that, but Gill would probably find a way to evade it, you'd have to grapple to the opponent, then Teleport, instead of simply touch him.

[Nantuko Joe]

No, you just said the answer

You didn't read the rest

Only Kaiobito, and that old woman could do that, but Gill would probably find a way to evade it, you'd have to grapple to the opponent, then Teleport, instead of simply touch him.

NO YOU DON'T! When Kibito brought Gohan back from the East Kaioshin's planetoid, did he have to grapple him first? When Uranai baba brought Goku back to the afterlife when his time on earth was up, did she have to grapple him first? When Goku teleported the exploding Cell to North Kaio-sama's planetoid, did he have to grapple him first? No. All they have to do is touch them and teleport, and the person they're touching will go too.

And I figured out another way to get rid of Gill: Buu's Henka Beam. If Gill was distracted by another fighter, Buu could hit Gill with his henka beam, turn him into some sort of food, then eat him and power up. Done. Gone

[Toon-Ryu]

actully Goku can. in the cell seriers he teleports cell to after life so gill will be stuck in hell therefor Goku, Vegeta or Vegetto could defeat the rest of the sf characters.

[TarkanX]

You didn't read the rest


Then to fully answer your question, it depends.


NO YOU DON'T! When Kibito brought Gohan back from the East Kaioshin's planetoid, did he have to grapple him first? When Uranai baba brought Goku back to the afterlife when his time on earth was up, did she have to grapple him first? When Goku teleported the exploding Cell to North Kaio-sama's planetoid, did he have to grapple him first? No. All they have to do is touch them and teleport, and the person they're touching will go too.


That is because Gohan didn't want to get away from East Kaioshin, he wanted to go, and he was near him, not trying to run away. Goku didn't have to grapple Cell, because there was n way Cell could move since he was bloding himself from a kamikaze, Gill could just use his hands(or whatever) to prevent teleportation.


And I figured out another way to get rid of Gill: Buu's Henka Beam. If Gill was distracted by another fighter, Buu could hit Gill with his henka beam, turn him into some sort of food, then eat him and power up. Done. Gone

Did you see Thin Buu(Evil Buu) vs. Mr. Buu(Fat Buu)? Thin Buu directed back the beam. Gill could probably do the same with seraphic wing(yes it's seraphic Wing again). And about distraction, though Gill is a powerhouse, he isn't stupid enough to get distracted and then get hit, he always keeps an eye on his opponents.

[Gotenks13]

Did you see Thin Buu(Evil Buu) vs. Mr. Buu(Fat Buu)? Thin Buu directed back the beam. Gill could probably do the same with seraphic wing(yes it's seraphic Wing again). And about distraction, though Gill is a powerhouse, he isn't stupid enough to get distracted and then get hit, he always keeps an eye on his opponents.

I'm sure that you know that the some of Saiyan/Saiyajin fighters could distract Gill for a while. Besides, if Vegetto came and KOed Gill, he would be too busy trying to heal himself, leaving him open to the Henka Beam.

[Nantuko Joe]

actully Goku can. in the cell seriers he teleports cell to after life so gill will be stuck in hell therefor Goku, Vegeta or Vegetto could defeat the rest of the sf characters.

He didnt' teleport to hell. He teleported to the North Kaio-sama's planetoid.

That is because Gohan didn't want to get away from East Kaioshin, he wanted to go, and he was near him, not trying to run away. Goku didn't have to grapple Cell, because there was n way Cell could move since he was bloding himself from a kamikaze, Gill could just use his hands(or whatever) to prevent teleportation.

WHERE does it say that you have to grapple an opponent before teleporting them? All you have to do is touch them. Unless you can give me PROOF stating otherwise, the teleporting Gill to the afterlife is a winning strategy. He'd be removed from the fight, and therefore would not be able to participate.

Did you see Thin Buu(Evil Buu) vs. Mr. Buu(Fat Buu)? Thin Buu directed back the beam. Gill could probably do the same with seraphic wing(yes it's seraphic Wing again). And about distraction, though Gill is a powerhouse, he isn't stupid enough to get distracted and then get hit, he always keeps an eye on his opponents.

First off, that was Fat Buu. I'm talking about Ma-jin Buu and/or Kid Buu. If Gill was grappling an opponent (I'll use Toon Ryu's idea and say he's fighting SSJ2 Vegetto), he could be distracted. Therefore, Buu would be able to hit him from BEHIND with the beam. Also, Buu could do what he did to SSJ3 Gotenks: sneak off some of his putty, then have it rear up and envelop Gill, absorbing him and gaining Buu his energy

[Dan Hibiki]

The one being sent somewhere using IT needs to concentrate on where they are going and/or be a willing participant for it to work. All Gill has to do is not want to go and it is so.

[princevegetam]

The one being sent somewhere using IT needs to concentrate on where they are going and/or be a willing participant for it to work. All Gill has to do is not want to go and it is so.
so that means cell wanted to teleport with goku to kai's planet?

and as for gill, since this guy is pretty much like a god, he can probrably avoid physical combat with z fighters by controlling weather and use it to his advantage, or just sepharic wing like hell since he doesn't ever run out of energy.

[Dan Hibiki]

Cell simply didn't know what the Hell was going on.

[Toon-Ryu]

ok you know how Dan said the one whos going with goku to the After life needs to concentrate where they need to go or what ever Dan said. Like Cell Gill doesnt know that ability and Goku can just suprise him and take him somewhere in the Afterlife and then in the Afterlife Goku can throw Gill to hell or not doesnt matter.

[Roll]

ok you know how Dan said the one whos going with goku to the After life needs to concentrate where they need to go or what ever Dan said. Like Cell Gill doesnt know that ability and Goku can just suprise him and take him somewhere in the Afterlife and then in the Afterlife Goku can throw Gill to hell or not doesnt matter.
Please tell me how that is possible..

[princevegetam]

Cell simply didn't know what the Hell was going on.
goku had put his two fingers up to his head and he talked to gohan for quite a while before teleporting. i'm sure cell isn't that stupid.

[Nantuko Joe]

The one being sent somewhere using IT needs to concentrate on where they are going and/or be a willing participant for it to work. All Gill has to do is not want to go and it is so.

Absolutely NOT true, where the hell did you get THAT from? The only one who needs to concentrate on the teleport is the person that is actually teleporting. The target person that he touches has no control over it.

Like i said, you and Tarkan can go out and find the manga pages where it says that you have to grapple the opponent, or that the opponent has to WANT to go with them. Personally, I think you guys are making this crap up just to try and win this debate.

and as for gill, since this guy is pretty much like a god, he can probrably avoid physical combat with z fighters by controlling weather and use it to his advantage, or just sepharic wing like hell since he doesn't ever run out of energy.

Eventually, he'll run out of energy. He can't just sit there and Seraph Wing all day. The Seraph WIng is a super move (i think), and therefore he has to build up his super bar in order to use it. Therefore, in real life, he would have to deal and/or take enough damage in order to build up the energy to use it.

goku had put his two fingers up to his head and he talked to gohan for quite a while before teleporting. i'm sure cell isn't that stupid.

Don't sweat it. Dan's just trying to make this stuff up.

[princevegetam]

like tarkan said before, gill doesn't run out of energy. plain and simple. he's a deity, which means he's a god. he can create energy out of nothing and use it. sepharic wing forever is possible, he may need some time to concentrate the energy, but he will not run out of energy.

[Toon-Ryu]

so you mean IT won't work on Gill or somtin ???

[(fighter)]

dradon ball would win if you saw the garlic jr saga garlic jr is powered by some star all they need are the dragon ballz wish back the star and his powerz will come back and he could open the portal to the dead zone and that could suck all the street fighter characters to thier for ever to a dark cold timeless land you cant escape and all past earth gardeans are there to tourcher them if your mortal or emortal your stuck there forever till garlic lets you out so end of disscussin you cant beat that :buttrock: whos the man

[princevegetam]

dumba$$

garlic jr. never occured in the manga and it's certainly unofficial

[Nantuko Joe]

dradon ball would win if you saw the garlic jr saga garlic jr is powered by some star all they need are the dragon ballz wish back the star and his powerz will come back and he could open the portal to the dead zone and that could suck all the street fighter characters to thier for ever to a dark cold timeless land you cant escape and all past earth gardeans are there to tourcher them if your mortal or emortal your stuck there forever till garlic lets you out so end of disscussin you cant beat that

whos the man

Certainly not you, since you don't even know that the Garlic Jr. Saga never occurred in the DBZ timeline or the manga.

like tarkan said before, gill doesn't run out of energy. plain and simple. he's a deity, which means he's a god. he can create energy out of nothing and use it. sepharic wing forever is possible, he may need some time to concentrate the energy, but he will not run out of energy.

That's not physically possible. EVERYTHING loses energy when they use energy. In space, the stars use energy, and they lose their energy over time, eventually cooling off and collapsing. To say that Gill has an infinite amount of energy would be denying the very laws of physics and nature.

However, even if this IS true, if Gill is transformed by Buu into some food and eaten, it would supply whoever eats him with INFINITE ENERGY, and thus making the DBZ characters the winners of the fight

so you mean IT won't work on Gill or somtin

Yes, it would, Toon-ryu. As far as I know, both of my theories would be effective against Gill. He can be teleported to the afterlife by Kaiobito or Uranai Baba, or he can be transformed into food and eaten by Buu, thus not only resulting in the DEFEAT (not death) of Gill, but a huge power-up for whoever eats him.

I think I've got this debate won.

[princevegetam]

lol, maybe, but it's not over yet


i know that stuff about gill isn't possible, but then again, neither are dragonballs. we'll just have to accept the fact created by whoever that made it (in this case, capcom).

and can't gill sepharic wing away that buu food beam?

[Nantuko Joe]

Not if he doesn't expect it coming.

If he's busy grappling with SSJ2 Vegetto (and he'll definately be busy), he could be hit with the Henka Beam from behind and not expect it. It can be countered while in the air, but the moment it hits the target, they can't do ANYTHING. If Gill is distracted, he can be turned into chocolate, then eaten, and give a power-up to whoever eats him.

[princevegetam]

i guess it could work

[Nantuko Joe]

My points exactly.

AND, when Buu eats the person, he gains all of their abilities, too. Therefore, in theory, Buu would also inherit Gill's diety status, and therefore be able to control the weather, infinite Seraph Wings against the SF characters, etc

[Gotenks13]

Hooray!!! We finally won!!! I think...I know Tarkan has something to say to this...hey, I'm really getting annoyed by you acting like I'm not apart of this debate... ???

[Dan Hibiki]

Seeing as Gill can throw out the Seraphic Wing infinitely he doesn't need to see the Henkai Beam coming.

:p Ha! Find another angle!

[Gotenks13]

We'll just do that Dan...

[Toon-Ryu]

ok just one thing if Gill cant be teleported to afterlife howcome cell was ????

[Dan Hibiki]

Cell didn't know what the hell was going on and was caught off-guard by it. Plus, he couldn't have done anything because he was about to detonate.

[Nantuko Joe]

Cell didn't know what the hell was going on and was caught off-guard by it. Plus, he couldn't have done anything because he was about to detonate.
How do you know that? Was it stated in the manga that Cell didn't know what was going on? And just because he COULDN'T resist the teleportation, does that mean that other ppl CAN resist the teleportation just by NOT WANTING to be teleported? That is a load of bull

Seeing as Gill can throw out the Seraphic Wing infinitely he doesn't need to see the Henkai Beam coming.

Ha! Find another angle!


Well, if he wants to counter the Henka beam with the Seraph WIng, he'll NEED to know that it's coming. Otherwise, he will not know the beam is coming, and then be transformed into candy.

Ha! Find another angle!

[TarkanX]

I'm sure that you know that the some of Saiyan/Saiyajin fighters could distract Gill for a while. Besides, if Vegetto came and KOed Gill, he would be too busy trying to heal himself, leaving him open to the Henka Beam.


Before Vegetto tries to KO Gill, Gill burns Vegetto melting him, then Gill dodges the Henka Beam.


WHERE does it say that you have to grapple an opponent before teleporting them? All you have to do is touch them. Unless you can give me PROOF stating otherwise, the teleporting Gill to the afterlife is a winning strategy. He'd be removed from the fight, and therefore would not be able to participate.

You don't have to grapple them, with Goku, it takes some seconds(maybe 10) to teleport from one place to another, and with East Kaioshin, it's the samething, except E. Kaioshin is much faster, though they'd have to touch Gill, And Gill is always throwing flames and increasing the weather(if you didn't understand what I just said, just say you didn't, and I'll explain it again.)


First off, that was Fat Buu. I'm talking about Ma-jin Buu and/or Kid Buu. If Gill was grappling an opponent (I'll use Toon Ryu's idea and say he's fighting SSJ2 Vegetto), he could be distracted. Therefore, Buu would be able to hit him from BEHIND with the beam. Also, Buu could do what he did to SSJ3 Gotenks: sneak off some of his putty, then have it rear up and envelop Gill, absorbing him and gaining Buu his energy

Gill doesn't have to grapple an opponent to win. And about Buu, and his skin, that is a good strategy, but Gill melts off part of his skin. Remember that you have to destroy Buu to completely win, Burning just gets rid of his bio parts(if he has any), it can be just like against Cell.


All Gill has to do is not want to go and it is so.

It's not that simple


Like i said, you and Tarkan can go out and find the manga pages where it says that you have to grapple the opponent, or that the opponent has to WANT to go with them. Personally, I think you guys are making this crap up just to try and win this debate.


I'd show you the pages on AIM, I can't put pics on the net from my HDD, since I don't know how to. And you don't have to grapple the opponent to teleport them.


That's not physically possible. EVERYTHING loses energy when they use energy. In space, the stars use energy, and they lose their energy over time, eventually cooling off and collapsing. To say that Gill has an infinite amount of energy would be denying the very laws of physics and nature.

Yes Gill does lose energy, only because of the present body he's in. But he can heal himself back, he doesn't waste as much energy as humans, he's like a DB"Z" character, he can throw Seraphic Wings for a LONG LONG time.


ok just one thing if Gill cant be teleported to afterlife howcome cell was

hmm... wait a minute, Gill can't be teleported to the afterlife. When Shin Akuma did the shun goku satsu, which sends your soul to hell, and the demons destroy your soul, Gill simply got back up. So doing the shun goku satsu, and teleporting your soul to hell is basically the samething.


Cell didn't know what the hell was going on and was caught off-guard by it. Plus, he couldn't have done anything because he was about to detonate.

Though Cell didn't want to go somewhere other than earth(which was where he was at the point), he was too busy bloating himself, so he couldn't do anything about it.

[TarkanX]

I found out some calculations, on speed, and that Gotenks can go 115 miles per second. Goku can lift 10 tons, and SSJ Goku can lift 40 tons(all in the Buu saga).

[Nantuko Joe]

Before Vegetto tries to KO Gill, Gill burns Vegetto melting him, then Gill dodges the Henka Beam.

What if the henka beam hits Gill before he has the chance to melt Vegetto? And besides, I'm sure Vegetto would be able to manage a shield against the heat, or teleport away from it. Either way, it IS POSSIBLE that Gill may drop his guard for half a moment, and that's all it takes to be hit by the beam.

You don't have to grapple them, with Goku, it takes some seconds(maybe 10) to teleport from one place to another, and with East Kaioshin, it's the samething, except E. Kaioshin is much faster, though they'd have to touch Gill, And Gill is always throwing flames and increasing the weather(if you didn't understand what I just said, just say you didn't, and I'll explain it again.)

You originally said that they had to grapple an opponent. Anyways, it takes Goku a long-ass time to teleport because his Shunkan Idou requires a ki target, and it takes a while to separate an individual ki target from millions of others.

Kibito's (and also Kaiobito's) teleportation, however, does not require a ki target. Therefore, Kaio-/Kibito could theoretically immediately teleport to Gill's location, grab his shoulder, and then immediately teleport to Hell or any other point in the afterlife, all before Gill can figure out what's going on (the entire process would take less than a half a second). Once Kaio-/Kibito teleports away, Gill would be stranded, and therefore unable to participate in the fight

Gill doesn't have to grapple an opponent to win. And about Buu, and his skin, that is a good strategy, but Gill melts off part of his skin. Remember that you have to destroy Buu to completely win, Burning just gets rid of his bio parts(if he has any), it can be just like against Cell.

Actually, Buu doesn't actually have SKIN. It's more of a magic putty. And you can't melt the skin away and dissolve it, because that's what Piccolo and SSJ3 Gotenks did in the ROSAT--Buu regenerated anyway with the tiniest miniscule neutrons left after the burning. He'll still regenerate. And the putty could THEORETICALLY surprise Gill long enough to allow Buu to absorb him.

Basically, it will take more than heat to destroy Buu

It's not that simple

That's what I thought

I'd show you the pages on AIM, I can't put pics on the net from my HDD, since I don't know how to. And you don't have to grapple the opponent to teleport them.

What's an HDD? And you can email me the manga pics at nantukojoe@mallarky.net. If you wanna talk to me on AIM, my sn is ostrichman02

Yes Gill does lose energy, only because of the present body he's in. But he can heal himself back, he doesn't waste as much energy as humans, he's like a DB"Z" character, he can throw Seraphic Wings for a LONG LONG time.

I thought so. Therefore, the Seraph Wing CANNOT be cast infinately, and if he uses all his energy using Seraph Wings, he will be too weak to heal himself (and vice versa: if he heals himself too much, he won't have enough energy to form a decently-strengthed Seraph Wing to protect himself

hmm... wait a minute, Gill can't be teleported to the afterlife. When Shin Akuma did the shun goku satsu, which sends your soul to hell, and the demons destroy your soul, Gill simply got back up. So doing the shun goku satsu, and teleporting your soul to hell is basically the samething.

Not quite. From what I've heard, the Shun Goku Satsu teleports your SOUL to hell. However, the teleportation in DBZ actually teleports their BODY to the afterlife. That doesn't mean that they're dead, it just means that their body is in another dimension. If Gill's body is stranded there, he has no way to get back unless someone else teleports him out of there.

I found out some calculations, on speed, and that Gotenks can go 115 miles per second. Goku can lift 10 tons, and SSJ Goku can lift 40 tons(all in the Buu saga).

How on earth did you figure out their lifting strength? It's easy to figure out his speed, but his lifting strength?

[Dan Hibiki]

On the Shun Goku Satsu reference: he's saying it like it actually happened and it did not phase Gill. I don't know if it happened, but I know that Akuma wanted to fight Gill (find the best, kill the rest sorta thing).

[TarkanX]

What if the henka beam hits Gill before he has the chance to melt Vegetto? And besides, I'm sure Vegetto would be able to manage a shield against the heat, or teleport away from it. Either way, it IS POSSIBLE that Gill may drop his guard for half a moment, and that's all it takes to be hit by the beam

If this is a 2 on 2, then Shin Bison/Twelve faces off against Buu, so Buu is too much into Shin Bison/Twelve, and the Gill fights Vegetto.


Kibito's (and also Kaiobito's) teleportation, however, does not require a ki target. Therefore, Kaio-/Kibito could theoretically immediately teleport to Gill's location, grab his shoulder, and then immediately teleport to Hell or any other point in the afterlife, all before Gill can figure out what's going on (the entire process would take less than a half a second). Once Kaio-/Kibito teleports away, Gill would be stranded, and therefore unable to participate in the fight


There would be someone busy against Kaiobito(Shin Akuma), and remember that his energy goes down whenever he teleports, and also, Akuma can teleport, so he can prevent Kaiobito from coming to Gill.


Actually, Buu doesn't actually have SKIN. It's more of a magic putty. And you can't melt the skin away and dissolve it, because that's what Piccolo and SSJ3 Gotenks did in the ROSAT--Buu regenerated anyway with the tiniest miniscule neutrons left after the burning. He'll still regenerate. And the putty could THEORETICALLY surprise Gill long enough to allow Buu to absorb him.


The Genki-dama completely destroyed Buu, The Genki-dama is like a burning, and electric substance(it looks electric in the Saiya-jin saga, and it looks like it's burning Freiza's hand in the Freiza saga).

I'll have to figure something out, for now, your winning.


What's an HDD? And you can email me the manga pics at nantukojoe@mallarky.net. If you wanna talk to me on AIM, my sn is ostrichman02


Hard Disk Drive.


I thought so. Therefore, the Seraph Wing CANNOT be cast infinately, and if he uses all his energy using Seraph Wings, he will be too weak to heal himself (and vice versa: if he heals himself too much, he won't have enough energy to form a decently-strengthed Seraph Wing to protect himself

He can heal himself even if he is KOed.


Not quite. From what I've heard, the Shun Goku Satsu teleports your SOUL to hell. However, the teleportation in DBZ actually teleports their BODY to the afterlife. That doesn't mean that they're dead, it just means that their body is in another dimension. If Gill's body is stranded there, he has no way to get back unless someone else teleports him out of there.

Yeah, true, but Gill's soul will stay, and Gill can fight with his soul(with even more power).


How on earth did you figure out their lifting strength? It's easy to figure out his speed, but his lifting strength?

It was stated in the manga, the beginning of the Buu saga when Goku is training in the afterlife.


On the Shun Goku Satsu reference: he's saying it like it actually happened and it did not phase Gill. I don't know if it happened, but I know that Akuma wanted to fight Gill (find the best, kill the rest sorta thing).

Gill didn't fight Akuma, but it did test out how strong Gill was. I don't even know if Akuma knows Gill.

[princevegetam]

isn't this an all out fight? not a 2 on 2?

and i don't believe akuma's teleportation is as fast as kibito's.

anyways, so far no arguement can destroy gill. even if his body is destroyed his soul would still remain. and btw tarkan, gill's powers seem rather unrealistic for a street fighter. i mean does that mean NO ONE can beat gill or defeat him? so he could go on wreaking havoc all over the place? does he do that in the storyline?

[TarkanX]

and i don't believe akuma's teleportation is as fast as kibito's.


anyways, so far no arguement can destroy gill. even if his body is destroyed his soul would still remain. and btw tarkan, gill's powers seem rather unrealistic for a street fighter. i mean does that mean NO ONE can beat gill or defeat him? so he could go on wreaking havoc all over the place? does he do that in the storyline?

He's actually good, he's the savior for the earth

[princevegetam]

isn't he a boss in SF3? doesn't he do some kind of evil? i would really appreciate it if you would provide me with a good link where i could read more "official" info about gill.

[TarkanX]

and i don't believe akuma's teleportation is as fast as kibito's

Hmm... I thought I quoted this, anyways, yeah Kaiobito's teleport is much faster than Akuma's, but Shin Bison's teleport is instant.


isn't he a boss in SF3? doesn't he do some kind of evil? i would really appreciate it if you would provide me with a good link where i could read more "official" info about gill.

No, he's not evil, even if he is a last boss of a game, he's trying to make good and evil join together.

And yeah here's the link.


http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/misc/file/street_fighter_plot.txt


Don't listen to the tier list, it's all messed up, even the person who stated the tier list said it wasn't organized, but everything there is official.

[princevegetam]

thank you

[Nantuko Joe]

If this is a 2 on 2, then Shin Bison/Twelve faces off against Buu, so Buu is too much into Shin Bison/Twelve, and the Gill fights Vegetto.

This isn't a video-game or Tenkaichi Budoukai-type matchup. This is a frigging all-out brawl.

There would be someone busy against Kaiobito(Shin Akuma), and remember that his energy goes down whenever he teleports, and also, Akuma can teleport, so he can prevent Kaiobito from coming to Gill.

Like above, this is an all-out brawl. And it is indeedly possible that Akuma could have been killed early on by someone such as SSJ3 Goku or Gotenks.

So far in this debate, we're only down to Gill remaining, and we're ONLY debating methods of removing GIll from the fight. Tark, you and vegetam have already admitted that everyone would be killed by the Z fighters except for Gill. For the past few pages, we have been debating about Gill, and no one else. Therefore, we must assume that the rest of the SF team has already either been killed or KOd

The Genki-dama completely destroyed Buu, The Genki-dama is like a burning, and electric substance(it looks electric in the Saiya-jin saga, and it looks like it's burning Freiza's hand in the Freiza saga).

That's because Furiza had an "evil" ki. As you all know, the Genki Dama draws energy from sources of "good" ki. Therefore, it would naturally be able to singe Furiza's hands.

WHen Buu regenerated from Gotenks' Kamikaze Attacks, it was because Buu and Gotenks were roughly at the same power level. Therefore, Gotenks' blasts didn't affect him as much as the Genki Dama. WHen Goku formed the Genki Dama taht destroyed BUu, it contained the energy of ALL THE HUMANS AND OTHER LIFE, and therefore was stronger than Buu in pure measure of energy. THAT is why the Genki Dama killed Buu.

Hard Disk Drive.

Tark, you could simply create a boomspeed.com account and upload the pics yourself

He can heal himself even if he is KOed.

Yes. HOwever, when he heals himself, it DOES NOT restore his lost energy, does it? It's kind of like Piccolo's Sai Sei. It regenerates his lost limbs, but does NOT restore any lost energy

Yeah, true, but Gill's soul will stay, and Gill can fight with his soul(with even more power).

Not quite. Since the body is the soul's vessel through life, his soul will be transported to the afterlife along with the body. Although Gill will not be dead (since he's a deity), neither his body nor his soul will be able to escape the afterlife and back into the normal dimension

It was stated in the manga, the beginning of the Buu saga when Goku is training in the afterlife.

Ok

Hmm... I thought I quoted this, anyways, yeah Kaiobito's teleport is much faster than Akuma's, but Shin Bison's teleport is instant.

As is Kaio-/Kibito's Kai Kai and Goku's Shunkan Idou. They are both teleportations that allow them to traverse great distances WITHOUT the passage of time. Goku's Shunkan Idou seems to take longer because he is busy trying to find the ki target

I'll have to figure something out, for now, your winning.


Yay! :D :buttrock:

[TarkanX]

Yes. HOwever, when he heals himself, it DOES NOT restore his lost energy, does it? It's kind of like Piccolo's Sai Sei. It regenerates his lost limbs, but does NOT restore any lost energy

It restores ALL his energy.


Not quite. Since the body is the soul's vessel through life, his soul will be transported to the afterlife along with the body. Although Gill will not be dead (since he's a deity), neither his body nor his soul will be able to escape the afterlife and back into the normal dimension

Gill's soul remains, Gill can't go to the afterlife(shown against Akuma). WHile his body can, his soul can't, because his body is immortal.



Okay, I found a way to counter the Buu's putty. Gill flies up in the air, really high. So his "putty" can't get him. I still haven't found a way to counter Gills distraction of Vegetto, and Buu's Henka beam, so I guess your still winning.

[princevegetam]

tarkan x after reading that link you gave me there doesn't seem to be any part that says gill is immortal, it just stays that he's EXTREMELY powerful, but nothing about him being an immortal. it says that everytime his body is destroyed, his organization has to make a body for gill's soul

[Roll]

Read your last sentence, Vegetam.

[princevegetam]

exactly, so there's no part that says gill can fight with his soul

[Roll]

And what can wandering souls do..? :biggrin:

[princevegetam]

???

um... what? what CAN they do?

[Nantuko Joe]

It restores ALL his energy.

How is that possible? So, that's basically like saying he can never run out of energy, because if he gets low, he can just use an energy-based move to restore his energy? I don't think that's right, man

Gill's soul remains, Gill can't go to the afterlife(shown against Akuma). WHile his body can, his soul can't, because his body is immortal.

That's not true, according to what princevegetam found out...

Okay, I found a way to counter the Buu's putty. Gill flies up in the air, really high. So his "putty" can't get him. I still haven't found a way to counter Gills distraction of Vegetto, and Buu's Henka beam, so I guess your still winning.

Not if he, once again, gets caught off-guard, just like Gotenks and Piccolo were. Gotenks had no idea that the attack was coming, and he still couldn't fight back against it. If the attack hit Buu from one or two sides, it could surprise him long enough for the putty to wrap around him. Once it does that, it's all over

tarkan x after reading that link you gave me there doesn't seem to be any part that says gill is immortal, it just stays that he's EXTREMELY powerful, but nothing about him being an immortal. it says that everytime his body is destroyed, his organization has to make a body for gill's soul

Sweet, man. THerefore, the organization that provides Gill with bodies is prolly made up of humans, who can be killed by even the lowest DBZ fighter. Therefore, Gill's body dies, but he has no body to go into. His spirit wanders the earth as a ghost

And what can wandering souls do..?

They can "haunt" old mansions, scare old ladies and children, have wild urban legends started about them, and that's pretty much it.

[Dan Hibiki]

This once-interesting debate has become a travesty. I am ducking out. It is just repetitive nonsense instead of the original and interesting perspectives once shown here.

[Nantuko Joe]

This once-interesting debate has become a travesty. I am ducking out. It is just repetitive nonsense instead of the original and interesting perspectives once shown here.

How is that? We're trying to figure out ways to take Gill out of the fight. How is that a travesty?

[Dan Hibiki]

Nevermind... I don't feel like explaining it. Needless to say, I have lost interest in this debate.

[Roll]

So have I. You guys are arguing with each other so harshly, it's like listening to Banshee's screaming right next to your ear. Oh, and you forgot one more thing that wandering souls (not ghosts) can do. Think about it... it begins with a certain letter of the alphabet that is after "m" and is before "t". ;)

[princevegetam]

lol, hooray, a riddle.....

[TarkanX]

tarkan x after reading that link you gave me there doesn't seem to be any part that says gill is immortal, it just stays that he's EXTREMELY powerful, but nothing about him being an immortal. it says that everytime his body is destroyed, his organization has to make a body for gill's soul

His soul is immortal, his body isn't. And Yeah his organization makes a body for him.


How is that possible? So, that's basically like saying he can never run out of energy, because if he gets low, he can just use an energy-based move to restore his energy? I don't think that's right, man

Play 3S, and you'll agree with me.



Forget it, this is getting boring, the same damn thing keeps getting brought up, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I give up, I don't like one sided debates, Joe, you win, I don't care anymore, DB"Z" beats SF, are you happy.... IMO, they can both suck big ****s. I only like debating PL's for DB"Z", I don't spend time trying to look up attacks in DB"Z", just the PL information.

[Gotenks13]

Then I'll go make up a PL topic... :D

[Nantuko Joe]

And the winner....as a result of a forfeit after 58 pages is...Nantuko Joe and DBZ!

Tark, I'm sorry you feel that way, but if it means anything to you:

Good debating. You're the best goddamn debator I've ever debated with. You've made some good points, and some excellent counterpoints over the last 58 pages. So, in a way, "good game"

And if any of the mods run across this topic (pfft), can you please lock/sticky the topic? This has been possibly the greatest topic on this forum since it became more serious, and I would like it to be there in the future for me and other ppl to look through. Through the course of the debate, this topic has become a gigantic collection of information for both DBZ and SF, and I'd like it to be here in case I ever need to find SF/DBZ info

[princevegetam]

wow, first debate that actually ended in one side winning. incredible

[Nantuko Joe]

Amazing, huh? I'm just surprised that I won. I thought that every one of my points would be counter-debated

[Roll]

... I still haven't given up on SF! (Sadly, the fight goes on with a little girl who just doesn't know when to quit..) I still don't see how DB would win. I have arguments.. but... :huh:

[Roll]

*sighs* I finally decided to swallow my pride and risk getting called names. Now... the following is just something I thought about over the last few nights in my spare time.

[color=skyblue:post_uid6]Over the last few nights, I was thinking about what someone (name is my secret) was talking to me about SF. That person said that a lot of the SF Characters were overpowerful (or had an added something) than they should've really been (or underpowered) in MvC2. However, they believe that the SF characters that where over-powered could've reached that state of power if they under-went the correct training. Those characters were: Akuma, Cammy(without air jumping), Chunli(without air jumping), Ken, Ryu, and Sakura. The other people that were underpowered, however, were M.Bison and Charlie. Going by that, I wonder if that would add a new piece to this debate. I mean, that would increase their strengths for this debate, and therefore change it![/color:post_uid6]
But... for that part... I need someone for that...

[SBYRD5]

This may sound foolish,but don't forget the eternal Dragon of Earth,and New Namek.I think the Z fighters have an over weighing adventage.

Oh, sorry is this debate over.Hmm Roll's statement looks interesting...that could change a few things.

[Nantuko Joe]

I still don't see how DB would win

Not only the dragons from the Dragonballs, but I've found an even BIGGER advantage for DBZ, one that will allow them to WIN, and they CANNOT LOSE.

In the Ma-jin Buu saga, King Enmma simply lets Vegeta return to earth to fight Ma-jin Buu. Therefore, if ANY of the DBZ fighters are killed, Enmma will simply allow them to return to earth and keep fighting, continuing this as many times as possible. THis way, the DBZ characters gain a sort of immortality, and can NEVER be defeated.

[SBYRD5]

Well with that last statement said.
This debate is offically over now...or is it. :shocked:

[Gotenks13]

I wonder if Enma can makw Gill stay in his world...I doubt it, but its worth a try.

[Roll]

Yeah, Nantuko, he could... if he weren't bound to the rules. As you know, he had no choice BUT to allow Vegeta to go back into the living plain (sp?) so he could fight against Buu. This was because the entire universe was in trouble. He can't just make people go back to life it's just a fight they are in. The SF's aren't threatening the entire universe (or the earth for that matter) in any way, and therefore, they wouldn't NEED to come back to life to defend anything. Of course, this is just something that came up while I was beating Cable with Roll in MvC2... feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[Nantuko Joe]

Yeah, Nantuko, he could... if he weren't bound to the rules. As you know, he had no choice BUT to allow Vegeta to go back into the living plain (sp?) so he could fight against Buu. This was because the entire universe was in trouble. He can't just make people go back to life it's just a fight they are in. The SF's aren't threatening the entire universe (or the earth for that matter) in any way, and therefore, they wouldn't NEED to come back to life to defend anything. Of course, this is just something that came up while I was beating Cable with Roll in MvC2... feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
If I were Enma, I would have let Buu destroy the universe. That way, once I check everyone into heaven and hell, i could retire and not deal with anymore deaths.

But Enma didn't HAVE TO send back Vegeta. He did so just so the earth could be saved. Enma makes the rules. He can just as easily unmake them, becase theres no one to stop him

[Roll]

Then that would mean he would be changing the rules of life and death. The dead would be able to go everywhere, even to the living plain if he changed the rules. And making rules that only affect a certain party is unfair to the unaffected, so it's doubtful he'd even try changing the rules (since it could be the downfall of his career).

[Nantuko Joe]

Then that would mean he would be changing the rules of life and death. The dead would be able to go everywhere, even to the living plain if he changed the rules. And making rules that only affect a certain party is unfair to the unaffected, so it's doubtful he'd even try changing the rules (since it could be the downfall of his career).
No, he can choose who he allows to go. Remember, he's the lord of the afterlife. He can allow the DBZ warriors to return if he wishes, but if any of the SF fighters die, he can detain them, refusing to let them back. It's his choice, it doesn't have to be fair.

[SBYRD5]

This only concludes that DBZ fighters own the Street Fighters.

I think Roll made an interesting point earlier in this page maybe one of you should comment on that.

[Roll]

Don't count SF out yet! I know I am missing something that is vital to this fight... just give me time to think... until then, find more strategies to beat Gill with, because that one about Buu eating Gill isn't very good, since Gill's soul is immortal, and since it isn't officially in tune with the body he is in, he can just leave when ever the body is destroyed (reference goes to the fact that new bodies are made for him whenever the older ones are destroyed.... thank you Tarkan...)

[Gotenks13]

Hhmmm...Do you think that Akuma's Raging Demon (forgot the Japanese name) could send Gill's soul to hell? Maybe they could trick Gill into doing it to Gill by throwing Gill into the blast using SSJ2 Veggeto or SSJ3 Gotenks.

If that doesn't work, then maybe, hey wait, aren't all "souls" immortal? In movie 13, all of the evil souls merged and made Janemba. I'm sure that the same concept is used in the official series. No one's soul can actually be "killed". All of the humans that Buu killed lost there bodies, but Goku got to keep his because of a decision by Enma Daiou. When Gill's body is destroyed (by someone...), even if he gets a new one, that doesn't nesasarily (spell it right plz...) mean that he'll get to use it.

Hey, it's my 100th post!!!

[Nantuko Joe]

Hhmmm...Do you think that Akuma's Raging Demon (forgot the Japanese name) could send Gill's soul to hell? Maybe they could trick Gill into doing it to Gill by throwing Gill into the blast using SSJ2 Veggeto or SSJ3 Gotenks

Tark said that he tried it on Gill, but Gill was unaffected

If that doesn't work, then maybe, hey wait, aren't all "souls" immortal? In movie 13, all of the evil souls merged and made Janemba. I'm sure that the same concept is used in the official series. No one's soul can actually be "killed". All of the humans that Buu killed lost there bodies, but Goku got to keep his because of a decision by Enma Daiou. When Gill's body is destroyed (by someone...), even if he gets a new one, that doesn't nesasarily (spell it right plz...) mean that he'll get to use it.

Interesting reference, Gotenks (even though it's irrelevant in the debate). However, in the DBZ series, when a person dies, their body is destroyed, but their soul remains. However, their soul cannot remain on earth, it has to be transported to the Afterlife. GIll apparently is different. His physical body can be destroyed, but his spirit is immortal (kind of like the disembodied spirits of Star Wars, it can seek another body to live in w/o having to go to the afterlife

find more strategies to beat Gill with, because that one about Buu eating Gill isn't very good, since Gill's soul is immortal, and since it isn't officially in tune with the body he is in, he can just leave when ever the body is destroyed (reference goes to the fact that new bodies are made for him whenever the older ones are destroyed.... thank you Tarkan...)

I do not believe Gill's spirit can leave the body unless the body is destroyed. I believe that the Henka Beam theory WILL work. Gill's body would be turned into food, and the spirit would be trapped inside the body until the body is killed. However, when one is eaten with the Henka Beam, they are not destroyed, but ABSORBED. Therefore, Gill would not die, but Gill's spirit and consciousness would be absorbed into Buu, allowing Buu to successfully control Gill's power.

Also, the Kai Kai teleportation theory also still works. IF Gill is teleported to the afterlife, he would be stranded, and unable to return to earth. His body and soul will still be ALIVE, but in a different dimension. And the only way to get back would be to ask Lord Enma's permission, which Enma can deny.

[Dan Hibiki]

No, everybody who was eaten by Buu was in Heaven with Dabura, remember? They were DEAD, not absorbed.

[Roll]

...I think I found a way to counter-act the Lord Enma thing.. I just have to see if it is possible...

[Nantuko Joe]

No, everybody who was eaten by Buu was in Heaven with Dabura, remember? They were DEAD, not absorbed.

Damn! I was hoping you guys wouldnt remember that.

Well, Buu could also absorb Gill via his putty. And as we all know, when buu uses the putty absorption, the ppl are still alive in side of him.

...I think I found a way to counter-act the Lord Enma thing.. I just have to see if it is possible...

There IS NO way to counteract the Lord Enma thing.

[Roll]

Awww... you're right... too bad. Look's like I have to use the last resort for Lord Enma. This battle is a "Who's the better fighter" type of fight. Lord Enma usually sends people back when the planet is in dire need of help. But, in this type of fight, he would know NOT to send them back until the fight is over. Which means, Gill would still be in there and he would still defeat them with any and all of his abilities, and when the fight is finally finished, Lord Enma would send those who died back because the side that won, won; and that side could be declared the stronger side.

Edit: Also, when the fight begins, Gill could just simply melt them all away... I owe Tarkan so much for telling the abilities of Gill in this thread, and for much more...

[Gotenks13]

Sorry...but...what?

[ajtimbs]

Some good points, Steventhebol. But Sf has the upper hand in technique. They are able to learn to change their attacks easily to do what they need to do. So you never know. Like Chunli. She can use her kikoushou to defend. Same thing with every other projectile user. And also, Goku needs time to gain the power from the earth for his Spirit bomb. And he also lost that ability when he became a super Saiyan. M. Bison can multipy too (or at least create an illusion of it). Rose could absorb projectiles with her scarf (since they are 1 hitters...), Zangief could turn into Metal Zangief and do some super strong holds on them. Sakura could use her shouoken to defend against projectiles, and cause some serious damge. Ryu has his Shinkuu hadouken which is pulled off automatically. Ken has the dragon punches. Cammy has that cannon drill, along with the cannon spike. And if we involved all of capcom here, then this would be a heavy fight, but it doesn't involve it. Oh well. that's all I have.... for now... ;)
cool so sf can do all if that and dbz can't cool :wow:

[Nantuko Joe]

Awww... you're right... too bad. Look's like I have to use the last resort for Lord Enma. This battle is a "Who's the better fighter" type of fight. Lord Enma usually sends people back when the planet is in dire need of help. But, in this type of fight, he would know NOT to send them back until the fight is over. Which means, Gill would still be in there and he would still defeat them with any and all of his abilities, and when the fight is finally finished, Lord Enma would send those who died back because the side that won, won; and that side could be declared the stronger side.

Not technically. Technically, everyone is supposed to stay DEAD, but if Enma wants to, he can revive ppl as he sees fit (he has the power to). Now, this isn't just a "strongest fighter" battle, but also more brains. Let's just say taht for the sake of argument, Akuma was really, really weak (like, Videl-strength weak), but still possessed the Shun Goku Satsu. Because he would be weak physically, but have a good ability, does that mean that he can't use it (since this is, as you said, a "Strongest fighter" battle)? No, it wouldn't be fair for a DBZ character to be excluded because of his abilities. Therefore, we can still use the Lord Enma thing.

And even if you wanted to be like taht, I still figured out a way to defeat GIll. Gill's spirit is immortal, but his body is not: a corporation makes him new bodies. However, since this is a "Strongest fighter" battle, we can't include the corp. that makes Gill's bodies (since they're only scientists, and not fighters, they'd be excluded). Therefore, that would leave Gill body-less, a wandering spirit. And I don't think Gill can fight using only his spirit, and for obvious reasons: if he COULD fight with his spirit, why would he keep needing bodies to reside in? Why couldnt' he just live as a spirit and be immortal? Because...he can't fight as a spirit.

Either way, DBZ still wins

cool so sf can do all if that and dbz can't cool

Yeah, but there are lots of moves that DBZ CAN do and SF CAN'T do.

[Roll]

Not technically. Technically, everyone is supposed to stay DEAD, but if Enma wants to, he can revive ppl as he sees fit (he has the power to). Now, this isn't just a "strongest fighter" battle, but also more brains. Let's just say taht for the sake of argument, Akuma was really, really weak (like, Videl-strength weak), but still possessed the Shun Goku Satsu. Because he would be weak physically, but have a good ability, does that mean that he can't use it (since this is, as you said, a "Strongest fighter" battle)? No, it wouldn't be fair for a DBZ character to be excluded because of his abilities. Therefore, we can still use the Lord Enma thing.
That is true... but then again, Akuma isn't weak, and assuming that he is isn't going to make him that way. And I wasn't excluding Lord Enma. This IS a DB vs SF battle. It's a fight to see which is better at fighting. Reviving yourselves from the dead wouldn't be a fight that shows who is stronger. And besides, if you continuously died, I think you'd get tired of getting killed eventually.

And even if you wanted to be like taht, I still figured out a way to defeat GIll. Gill's spirit is immortal, but his body is not: a corporation makes him new bodies. However, since this is a "Strongest fighter" battle, we can't include the corp. that makes Gill's bodies (since they're only scientists, and not fighters, they'd be excluded). Therefore, that would leave Gill body-less, a wandering spirit. And I don't think Gill can fight using only his spirit, and for obvious reasons: if he COULD fight with his spirit, why would he keep needing bodies to reside in? Why couldnt' he just live as a spirit and be immortal? Because...he can't fight as a spirit.

Either way, DBZ still wins

Actually, it is a strongest fighter battle, so yes you can exclude the scientists. But that does not leave him bodiless. At the beginning of the fight, he could just increase the temperature around the DB'Z' fighters and melt them all away. Simple, no? So either way, SF still wins.

[princevegetam]

wouldn't gill's own body be destroyed along with z fighters if he raised temperatures?

[Roll]

Not if he only increases it around the DB'Z' Fighters.[img:post_uid4]http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/hehe.gif[/img:post_uid4]

[Nantuko Joe]

That is true... but then again, Akuma isn't weak, and assuming that he is isn't going to make him that way. And I wasn't excluding Lord Enma. This IS a DB vs SF battle. It's a fight to see which is better at fighting. Reviving yourselves from the dead wouldn't be a fight that shows who is stronger. And besides, if you continuously died, I think you'd get tired of getting killed eventually.

So what if they would get tired of it? It still doesn't change the fact that they CAN be brought back from the dead. And if any of the Saiya-jins get killed and brought back, they would get a HUGE power up for each time they came back.

Actually, it is a strongest fighter battle, so yes you can exclude the scientists. But that does not leave him bodiless. At the beginning of the fight, he could just increase the temperature around the DB'Z' fighters and melt them all away. Simple, no? So either way, SF still wins.

Roll, are you THAT simpleminded? First off, Gill can't just raise the temperatures in a small space around someone's body. He would have to raise the temperature to over 3 thousand degrees over a large area to affect the Z fighters. Also, the Z fighters would be able to form a shield against the heat until they could fly away from the heated area. And if the SF characters are grappling with the DBZ characters, and Gill raises the heat, the SF characters would also be melted if they're in close proximity with the DBZ characters.

And Buu cannot be defeated by the heat or great temperatures. As we all know, the Ki blasts in DBZ are energy, and energy is moving. The faster the atoms in energy move, the hotter it gets. That is why the blasts in DBZ are hot. Now, if Buu exploding, then being blasted by heat couldn't kill him, raising the heat won't kill him. The only reason Buu was killed was because Goku's Genki Dama had a greater amount of energy than Buu could fend off. The Genki Dama simply had more power than Buu, and thus he was destroyed. However, raising the temperature won't affect Buu.

And for Gill's temperature to break through a shield by the Z fighters, it would have to be raised to a lot above the heat of molten lava. If that were the case, the very oxygen and nitrogen and assorted chemical molecules in the air would ignite, and cause an explosion that would cover a HUGE area of the sky. (it's kind of like a bullet piercing a tank of compressed oxygen).

And finally, if even a weak fighter such as Yamucha kills the scientists and the bodies of Gill, Gill would be left bodiless in the event of his body's destruction.

[Roll]

So what if they would get tired of it? It still doesn't change the fact that they CAN be brought back from the dead. And if any of the Saiya-jins get killed and brought back, they would get a HUGE power up for each time they came back.

Roll, are you THAT simpleminded? First off, Gill can't just raise the temperatures in a small space around someone's body. He would have to raise the temperature to over 3 thousand degrees over a large area to affect the Z fighters. Also, the Z fighters would be able to form a shield against the heat until they could fly away from the heated area. And if the SF characters are grappling with the DBZ characters, and Gill raises the heat, the SF characters would also be melted if they're in close proximity with the DBZ characters.

And Buu cannot be defeated by the heat or great temperatures. As we all know, the Ki blasts in DBZ are energy, and energy is moving. The faster the atoms in energy move, the hotter it gets. That is why the blasts in DBZ are hot. Now, if Buu exploding, then being blasted by heat couldn't kill him, raising the heat won't kill him. The only reason Buu was killed was because Goku's Genki Dama had a greater amount of energy than Buu could fend off. The Genki Dama simply had more power than Buu, and thus he was destroyed. However, raising the temperature won't affect Buu.

And for Gill's temperature to break through a shield by the Z fighters, it would have to be raised to a lot above the heat of molten lava. If that were the case, the very oxygen and nitrogen and assorted chemical molecules in the air would ignite, and cause an explosion that would cover a HUGE area of the sky. (it's kind of like a bullet piercing a tank of compressed oxygen).

And finally, if even a weak fighter such as Yamucha kills the scientists and the bodies of Gill, Gill would be left bodiless in the event of his body's destruction.
Geez, Nantuko, are you THAT ignorant? Now I see why Tarkan quit. Of course he could raise the temperature around him, and even if he does melt the SF Fighters away, he'd still melt the DB'Z' fighters as well, no matter how high the temperature has to be raised. And while they are grappling with the SF's, if they are able to form a shield around themselves from the heat while grappling, then I guess they're multi-talented, aren't they?

And as for that thing about igniting the very oxygen and nitrogen and "assorted chemical molecules" in the air, is there any proof that that can happen, or did you make that up yourself? Because I have never heard of such a thing being even tried/proven before in all my life, and I read a LOT of books. The only thing I know, is that the hottest magma (that I know of) found is the Basaltic magma which is ESTIMATED (since it cannot be measured) to be between 1000 C and 1200 C. So, if you could, please post where I can find more information on the effects of the increased temperature in the air.

[Nantuko Joe]

Geez, Nantuko, are you THAT ignorant? Now I see why Tarkan quit. Of course he could raise the temperature around him, and even if he does melt the SF Fighters away, he'd still melt the DB'Z' fighters as well, no matter how high the temperature has to be raised. And while they are grappling with the SF's, if they are able to form a shield around themselves from the heat while grappling, then I guess they're multi-talented, aren't they?

And as for that thing about igniting the very oxygen and nitrogen and "assorted chemical molecules" in the air, is there any proof that that can happen, or did you make that up yourself? Because I have never heard of such a thing being even tried/proven before in all my life, and I read a LOT of books. The only thing I know, is that the hottest magma (that I know of) found is the Basaltic magma which is ESTIMATED (since it cannot be measured) to be between 1000 C and 1200 C. So, if you could, please post where I can find more information on the effects of the increased temperature in the air.

Geez...

FIrst off, they wouldn't be fighting with the shield. They'd grapple, kill off most of the SF characters. They wouldn't form a shield until they began to sense the temperature increase. And you can't tell me that Gill can raise the temperature from like 70 degrees F to over 3 thousand degrees in a split second, it's not physically possible (unless it was in the form of an explosion). They would sense the increasing temperature, then fly out of the temperature range.

And even if he DOES raise the temperature in the air high enough, he prolly can't keep it in a specific space. The way YOU make it seem, it sounds like he can create an imaginary wall around the person, adn then raise the temperature inside that area. It most likely doesn't work like that.

What he's doing is speeding up the air molecules so fast ,they heat up. This would remain in a smaller area for a little while, but after a while, and at higher temperatures, the temperature would not stay concentrated in a smaller area, but spread out evenly among a larger area of the sky, and thus not only lowering the heat that would afflict the Z fighters, but also putting GIll in the middle of some heat.

And I don't have any reference websites for that air explosion thing. Hell, I'm most likely wrong. But for the $hit that I just posted above this paragraph, I'm 100% correct. When I graduated, I also got a A+ in Physics Honors, and know enough about physics to know what I just said

[Roll]

I made it seem like he makes an imaginary wall...? Wow....

The following is http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/offtopic.gif
I'll be editing my post later with another argument thingy. Right now, My aunt, uncle, and cousin are leaving for New York, and I'm going with them to say goodbye. brb.

[Nantuko Joe]

Actually, the Henka Beam theory (turn Gill into candy) WILL work. The part in DBZ where you see Chichi, Buruma, Videl, Kuririn, and Dabura in the afterlife was filler, I dont' think it happened in the manga (mostly in part because of Dabura's Roll-like niceness (j/k)). I think that in the manga, their bodies were absorbed, and not just their power

[Gotenks13]

I think that the air explosion might be true. I'm pretty sure it happens near the sun. I think that the atoms would collide and split, which is how atomic bombs work(I think...). That split would release an enormous amount of energy, but it still might not work.

Also, Goku was surviving about 10 ft. from a star in the Namek saga, so...

[Nantuko Joe]

Also, Goku was surviving about 10 ft. from a star in the Namek saga, so...
Umm...no?

[princevegetam]

um.. not really, you're talking about nuclear fusion and 3 thousand degrees isn't NEARLY enought to cause that. and neither oxygen or nitrogen would not ignite, it would need some kind of fuel (e.g. hydrogen, gasoline, oil, etc). oxygen and nitrogen are not flammable in their natural state. the only reason a tank of oxygen or nitrogen would explode is because the gas is EXTREMELY dense and the pressure is IMMENSE and that the slightest puncture would release all that pressure which would create kinetic, then heat energy.

how do i know this? well, lightning is at a temperature far greater than magma and it does not ignite the gases in the atmosphere on fire.

[kingofhearts]

Oxygen is needed to make ignite because its a catalyst speeds up reactions, and Lightning bolts don't ignite in the air because oxygen is not a fuel but a catalyst.

[Toon-Ryu]

I thought the debate stopped and DBZ had won. I remember seeing it in a post. Oh well!

[Nantuko Joe]

um.. not really, you're talking about nuclear fusion and 3 thousand degrees isn't NEARLY enought to cause that. and neither oxygen or nitrogen would not ignite, it would need some kind of fuel (e.g. hydrogen, gasoline, oil, etc). oxygen and nitrogen are not flammable in their natural state. the only reason a tank of oxygen or nitrogen would explode is because the gas is EXTREMELY dense and the pressure is IMMENSE and that the slightest puncture would release all that pressure which would create kinetic, then heat energy.

how do i know this? well, lightning is at a temperature far greater than magma and it does not ignite the gases in the atmosphere on fire.
Ok, we can stop this fcuking oxygen debate. I already admitted I was incorrect last page. We don't need to carry it out any more.

And the debate will continue until Roll stops trying to convince me that Enma can't send the fighters back

[Scorponok]

I only read up to page 8, so I don't know all the stuff you guys said. Just to clear things up(If it hasn't been done so already) I know of 3 SF movies, just to let you ppl who think there's only 1 know. From the one I saw, here are some things they could do..

Ryu & Ken: The Hadouken does alot more than in the game, it takes a few seconds to charge up while lighting bolt looking things surround the person, then when you get hit(this happened to Ken) he flew back, all his clothes were burned out, he got a little burnt I think, and he fell down unconsciousness. The Shoryuken move is alot bigger too, one Shoryuken move on Sagat and he was out of the fight, that's where he got that huge scar on his chest. The spinning kick is deadly too. Ryu's and Ken's hadoukens blew up Bison and his huge plane at the end. Their bodies are pretty strong too, considering Ryu will just jump in front of a semi truck with Bison in it.

Sagat: Not much to be seen of him in the movie. Only special moves was this one thing he did at the beginning of the movie. He gathered some energy in his hands and slammed it on the ground or somethin and made an explosion, blowing Ryu back.

Guile: Only saw Sonic Boom in the movie, he pulls his head back and hands and comes forward saying "Sooniiiiiic BOOM!", it tears a house in half. I don't know if that's anything special since it was made of straw, lol(E. Honda's home).

Vega: not much, but he is FAST.

Bison: This freak can teleport like crazy, other people's attacks just go through him, he can take over some ppl's minds too.

Dhalsim: He can throw balls of fire, can teleport, and in the movie he pinned Honda on the ground with his mind and he couldn't get up.

Ahh, that's about it. SF has some strong characters, but DBZ seems to have alot more, so.. I dunno, Ryu and Goku have one thing in common-they're pigs, when Ryu eats, man, he EATS! lol.....

[Nantuko Joe]

Scorponok, we have only come to one conclusion: Every single SF character would be decimated except for Gill. Ryu would be dead. Ken would be dead. Dhalsim would be dead. Only GIll cannot die, and we're trying to figure out ways to get rid of him. I have found a way, but Roll is trying to debate me on it.

Pretty much, if you haven't read the entire topic, and want to post something, there's a 95% chance it's already been said.

[princevegetam]

I only read up to page 8, so I don't know all the stuff you guys said. Just to clear things up(If it hasn't been done so already) I know of 3 SF movies, just to let you ppl who think there's only 1 know. From the one I saw, here are some things they could do..

Ryu & Ken: The Hadouken does alot more than in the game, it takes a few seconds to charge up while lighting bolt looking things surround the person, then when you get hit(this happened to Ken) he flew back, all his clothes were burned out, he got a little burnt I think, and he fell down unconsciousness. The Shoryuken move is alot bigger too, one Shoryuken move on Sagat and he was out of the fight, that's where he got that huge scar on his chest. The spinning kick is deadly too. Ryu's and Ken's hadoukens blew up Bison and his huge plane at the end. Their bodies are pretty strong too, considering Ryu will just jump in front of a semi truck with Bison in it.

Sagat: Not much to be seen of him in the movie. Only special moves was this one thing he did at the beginning of the movie. He gathered some energy in his hands and slammed it on the ground or somethin and made an explosion, blowing Ryu back.

Guile: Only saw Sonic Boom in the movie, he pulls his head back and hands and comes forward saying "Sooniiiiiic BOOM!", it tears a house in half. I don't know if that's anything special since it was made of straw, lol(E. Honda's home).

Vega: not much, but he is FAST.

Bison: This freak can teleport like crazy, other people's attacks just go through him, he can take over some ppl's minds too.

Dhalsim: He can throw balls of fire, can teleport, and in the movie he pinned Honda on the ground with his mind and he couldn't get up.

Ahh, that's about it. SF has some strong characters, but DBZ seems to have alot more, so.. I dunno, Ryu and Goku have one thing in common-they're pigs, when Ryu eats, man, he EATS! lol.....
as tarkan said before, any SF movie is unofficial (otherwise it would conflict with what Capcom says). all those characters are NOTHING compared with Oro, Gill and Shin Akuma.

1. that energy move by sagat was his "tiger wave" or something like that

2. vega's speed is #### compared with any dbz character

3. most of those things you said, the characters can do in the game

4. you should play more SF and Vs series games (no offense or anything)

[Dan Hibiki]

Nantuko Joe, here are the characters that could take DBZ characters and not get killed like a bitch.

Shin Akuma
Shin Bison (SFA3 Final Bison)
Gill
Oro
Ryu 15 years after SFIII: Third Strike

[Nantuko Joe]

Shinakuma and Shinbison would not get killed like a little bitch, but they'd get killed nonetheless. Oro could hold out for alittle while, but I think he'd still go down. We already have concluded that Gill cannot die: in fact, Roll is trying to figure out ways to counterdebate my "get-rid-of-Gill-theories".

and Ryu 15 years after SFIII: 3rd strike? What makes him so special?

[princevegetam]

dan, that was only a prediction by oro, we can't confirm the amount of power ryu has, so it can't be used in this arguement.

[Dan Hibiki]

15 years after SFIII: 3rd Strike, Ryu has a power equal or greater than Oro's.

How about this... if Enma can keep on sending the DBZ fighters back, then the organization can keep making bodies for Gill to be resurrected in. A stalemate, then.

[princevegetam]

15 years after SFIII: 3rd Strike, Ryu has a power equal or greater than Oro's.
you don't know that for sure, it was just a prediction by oro, so it's not necessarily true

[Nantuko Joe]

15 years after SFIII: 3rd Strike, Ryu has a power equal or greater than Oro's.

How about this... if Enma can keep on sending the DBZ fighters back, then the organization can keep making bodies for Gill to be resurrected in. A stalemate, then.
Not quite. You see, the Z fighters can send someone like Roshi or Chaozu to kill the scientists and destroy the factory where they make the bodies. However, the SF characters can't kill Enma.

So Nyah Nyah!

[Roll]

I have a question. If Buu isn't a "True" living being, then would/could you call him an object?

Oh, and Nantuko, thanks. ^.~

[iori]

If SF, and DB fought(and on ground), who would win?

Post why you think each would win(and don't say dumb things like, "because gOkU cAnZ detrsoZ dA uNIverz"), back up your evidence also.
ok dbz will win nufe said bye

[Nantuko Joe]

I have a question. If Buu isn't a "True" living being, then would/could you call him an object?

Oh, and Nantuko, thanks. ^.~

I dunno exactly. He's alive (he can think, and act for himself), but he has no internal organs or brain to speak of, because he was created from pure magic. I'm not exactly sure how to classify him

ok dbz will win nufe said bye

I really don't care much about you spamming the other topics, but YOU DON'T SPAM IN THIS ONE! THIS TOPIC IS SACRED, DAMMIT! NOW DIE! DIE! DIE!

[Dan Hibiki]

The DBZ fighters can't kill the scientists if they don't know where they are. Also, they don't have high enough Ki to be easily locatable. Thusly, Gill can be infinitely resurrected.

[Nantuko Joe]

For Gill to have his spirit enter the new body that the scientists make for him, Gill's spirit has to travel to the location of his new body, am I correct? With that said, the moment Gill's spirit enters the body, his Ki will become noticeable, and Goku could teleport to the lab where the bodies are created, and therefore destroy it. Once he does that, Gill would have only one remaining body--the one his spirit would currently be inhabiting.

Or, if Gill's spirit is visible, and he goes to inhabit a body, the Z fighters could easily follow his spirit to the lab, then destroy the body before Gill can enter it, and then destroy the rest of the lab.

And it doesn't matter how strong or weak someone's ki power is. Goku's SI (Shunkan Idou) can lock onto ANY ki target that he wishes. He must first locate the target (which, if the ki target is weak, may take a while), but he CAN do it.

[Roll]

So you can't think of a classification? Hmm...I'll post an idea later.

[mysticveggeto]

dbz wouled win because all the martial arts all z fighters the whole dbz series the whole db series even the bad guys and cell could transport the whole sf series to another planet and everybody could give there energeis to goku to make a gigantic spirit bomb and throw it to the planit that cell transported them to httas just my opinion

[Roll]

Veggeto, leave the DB Side to Nantuko and Vegetam, k? They're doing great all alone.

[mysticveggeto]

whatever you say roll ill leave them alone ??? ??? ???

[princevegetam]

actually mystic vegetto does point out a good point. the dbz with teleportation capabilities can just teleport all the SF fighters to another planet, blow up the planet, and leave before it explodes.

[Nantuko Joe]

And Gill's spirit would make its way back to earth to inhabit another body...sticking us back to where we were last page. And still, the DBZ fighters tail Gill to the lab, then destroy the body, and the rest of the lab, and successfully SCREWING over Gill, but still effectively taking him out of the fight.

[Dan Hibiki]

... uh, Gill could just incinerate anybody who tried to get to the lab. Roast em' toast em', and all. Goku, King Kai, and the people of Yardrat are the only ones who can teleport using Shunkan Idou, and are thusly the only ones who can get there fast enough. Gill would just incinerate anybody who got close to the lab using his elemental powers.

After killing the intruder, Gill could use his power to lower the temperature AROUND the lab to Absolute Zero, where there are no possible reactions. The zone would negate any energy attacks thrown by DBZ fighters, and would insta-kill anybody who tried to cross the zone. NOTHING can function, much less live, at Absolute Zero.

[princevegetam]

show me some proof that gill can control elements in his soul form.


gill cannot raise the temperature instataneously to such a high level (show me some proof he can). it'll take him some time to raise the temperature and by then someone would've teleported the guy to the underworld already.

[Roll]

Using temperature based attacks is only his special move in the game. That should be proof enough.

Now... can Buu be considered an object or not?

[Nantuko Joe]

After killing the intruder, Gill could use his power to lower the temperature AROUND the lab to Absolute Zero, where there are no possible reactions. The zone would negate any energy attacks thrown by DBZ fighters, and would insta-kill anybody who tried to cross the zone. NOTHING can function, much less live, at Absolute Zero.

Dude, Absolute Zero is 0*C, and 0*F. It's not that cold. During the winter in the mid-west states, the temperature can hit 15* below Zero, and they can still live. When I worked in Frozen Foods at Shop Rite, the Ice Cream freezer was at -40*F, and I got locked in there for an HOUR and was fine.

And there's no proof that "absolute zero" would negate the DBZ fighters attacks. And how do you know Gill can still use his powers devoid of a body? A spirit w/o a body is a ghost, and ghosts can't hurt ppl, they just wander the earth. Therefore, if someone got there before Gill, then destroyed the factory AND his awaiting body, he'd be fcuked out of a body, and effectively removed from the fight

Now... can Buu be considered an object or not?

Buu is not alive in the terms we use (ie, he doesn't breathe, he has no internal organs or brain to speak of, just putty. He's an abnormality, an enigma. There is no way of classifying him

[Roll]

Point is that he can still lower the temperature, Nantuko.

[Nantuko Joe]

Whoop-dee-$hit if he can lower temperature. Lowering it to 0* would do jack-$hit. And even it he lowered it to -5,000,000*, it would still freeze the scientists in the lab and destroy the body. It would be stupid.

Gill, in his spirit form, is most likely helpless. I dont' think he can use any powers while in his spirit form. Therefore, if any of the Z fighters destroys the lab and his remaining bodies, he's screwed.

So we've got a bunch of ways to get rid of Gill:

1.) Teleport him to the afterlife and leave him there. He will be unable to return to the real world, and be removed from the fight.

2.) Use Buu's Henka Beam to turn him into food and eat him, giving Buu a HUGE power up. (Turning him into food doesn't kill him, that part in the anime never happened in the manga).

3.) Use Buu's putty to wrap around Gill and absorb him into Buu's body, giving Buu a HUGE power up and removing Gill from the fight

4.) Destroy the lab where scientists create bodies for Gill, kill the scientists, and destroy the remaining bodies. Gill would be stuck in spirit form, and be unable to fight.

There you go. Four ways to remove Gill from the fight. I'm pretty sure we can declare DBZ the official winner of the fight

[Dan Hibiki]

I simply don't care anymore. Absolute Zero stops ALL reactions of ANY kind. I said that Gill would lower the temperature AROUND the lab to Absolute Zero, not lower the temperature of the Lab itself.

[princevegetam]

doesn't anyone answer my posts?

gill cannot significantly lower temperature INSTANTLY, it'll take him some time.

where does it say that gill can use his powers while wondering around as a soul without a body?

[Nantuko Joe]

I simply don't care anymore. Absolute Zero stops ALL reactions of ANY kind. I said that Gill would lower the temperature AROUND the lab to Absolute Zero, not lower the temperature of the Lab itself.
Dude, isn't Absolute Zero ZERO DEGREES FARENHEIT, WHICH IS THE SAME AS ZERO DEGREES CENTIGRADE? Now, if I can hang out in a confined envoronment where the temperature is negative forty degrees farenheit, which is lower than absolute zero and come out an hour later without being affected. Now, apparently if temperature COLDER than absolute zero doesn't stop reactions, then Absolute Zero would not stop reactions.

And even if, by some miracle of physics, you ARE right, you still have to try and counterdebate my other three methods.

[Roll]

...This isn't a debate any more. It's just a big fight now. http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/grumpy.gif


...Oh, and Rose can use her soul power to control objects. Since Buu has no brain, or organs, then he can still be considered an object (Just like Hsienko's scarf. It's alive, but it's still an object). And if that doesn't help, get Tessa to eliminate him from that world with HER magic. This may or may not be my last argument. http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sly.gif

[Dan Hibiki]

I can't remember exact numbers, Joe, but Absolute Zero is a temperature in which it is so very cold that it is impossible to get any colder. All molecular movement ceases. In the Kelvin scale, it is 0

[Nantuko Joe]

...Oh, and Rose can use her soul power to control objects. Since Buu has no brain, or organs, then he can still be considered an object (Just like Hsienko's scarf. It's alive, but it's still an object). And if that doesn't help, get Tessa to eliminate him from that world with HER magic. This may or may not be my last argument.

He may be an OBJECT, but everyone is technically an object. I am an object. My friend's cat is an object. Your mom is an object. Now, if you want to use object, you probably mean "inanimate" object, like a desk or a chair. However, even IF Buu is classified as an object, he's still an "animate" object, and thusly would not be affected. It would be like trying to use her "object" power to control me or my friend's cat or your mom.

princevegetam, Gill can change temperatures instantly. Temperature is merely the motion of molecules. Using his power to control the elements, he can instantly accellerate or stop the molecules in the air to change the temperature. Instantly stop the molecules, and you get Absolute Zero.

[color=green]Instantly stopping the molecules would not make the temperature Absolute Zero INSTANTLY, it would be very quick (like a half a sec) but it can't happen instantly. INSTANT=without the passage of time. INSTANT is Goku's Shunkan Idou and Kaiobito's Kai Kai. THAT is instant. However, for the temperature to make a drastic change (from room temperature to -273

[Roll]

If Gohan can kill Cell, and Gill can kill Gohan, than all there is left (To my mind and to the argument you either ignored or missed) is that Tessa would eliminate Buu back into that egg shell barrier thing using her magic, and Gill would be able to fight Cell without disruption from Buu. Disagree? Agree? Either way, this path to victory is true.

[Nantuko Joe]

Disagree. Buu can only be re-trapped in the egg shell by Bibidi or Babidi. And who the hell is this Tessa you speak of, and what are her powers? And remember, ANYONE who is killed by the SF fighters can be brought back by Lord Enma. And if Gill is distracted by someone, and Cell sneaks up from behind, Cell can easily vacuum up Gill.

[Roll]

Tessa is a spell user just like Bibidi and Babidi, but with some greater spells since she has been practicing her magic on Street Fighters. Because of her recent adventures, she now has the ability to change people into other forms regardless of what they want. I got's to go to school, so I'll post more soon...

[Nantuko Joe]

Because of her recent adventures, she now has the ability to change people into other forms regardless of what they want.
Other forms? How do you mean? And how can you say she has greater spells than Bibidi and Babidi just because he's been practicing them on Street Fighters? Babidi was thousands of years old when he died, and we never saw the extent of his sorcery. Bibidi was probably even more powerful, for he was the one who actually created Buu. Now if Bibidi was revived, he'd theoretically have the power to create a second Buu, and that would be a HUGE advantage for DBZ...

[Dan Hibiki]

Temperature changes would be instantaneous. A slow change is me putting my applesauce into the refrigerator. The molecules gradually slow, gradually lowering its temperature. An instantaneous stop of all molecular motion is instantaneous Absolute Zero.

Gill CAN'T be sent to the afterlife. Akuma tried to use the Shun Goku Satsu to send Gill to Hell, but it couldn't do it. Gill CAN'T be sent to the afterlife.

Bibidi is DEAD. You can't use him in this debate. You can use Babidi, because he is alive during the actual events of DBZ.

I mean keep form as in they retain their appearance when they were alive. Those little puffs lined up to see King Enma are helpless and without their original form.

Because Gill is a God, he can still change temperatures and control the elements, but he can't physically interact with anything, e.g. touch or punch.

Forgot about the milk ball incident. If Vegetto could put up a fight still, then Gill could still defend himself using the elements.

Joe, your lack of common sense is annoying me. Gill can lower the temperature AROUND THE LAB, AROUND THE BUILDING, THROUGH THE GROUND AROUND THE BUILDING TOO to Absolute Zero. NOT THE INSIDE, BUT AROUND THE OUTSIDE.

Goku can lock onto any ki signal, yes, but he CAN'T know which ki signals are the lab technicians. NO way.

Now for the points you raise...

1. Gill can't go to the afterlife. Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu attempt is enough to prove that. 'Nuff said.

2. I am so damn tired of this King Enma crap, so let me set this straight. King Enma does NOT get involved in ANYTHING unless it is the end of the universe. The battle between the DBZ fighters and Street Fighter is NOT a battle for the sake universe, so King Enma couldn't care less. He would do NOTHING.

3. If you have Buu in the equation, then Cell is already perfected. Perfect Cell can't do that.

[Nantuko Joe]

Temperature changes would be instantaneous. A slow change is me putting my applesauce into the refrigerator. The molecules gradually slow, gradually lowering its temperature. An instantaneous stop of all molecular motion is instantaneous Absolute Zero.

And I'm telling you, instantaneous is the same as instantly, and that means WITHOUT THE PASSAGE OF TIME. Now, to have the temperature lowered from room temperature to -273*C WITHOUT THE PASSAGE OF TIME is not physically possible. You can't have an INSTANTANEOUS stop of all molecular motion, it would take some time. Even if it's a half a second, it can be done, but for something natural such as temperature changes to occur INSTANTANEOUSLY is not physically possible. Sorry to burst your bubble

Gill CAN'T be sent to the afterlife. Akuma tried to use the Shun Goku Satsu to send Gill to Hell, but it couldn't do it. Gill CAN'T be sent to the afterlife.

The Shun Goku Satsu KILLS both the body and the spirit. It didn't affect Gill because although Gill's body COULD have died, his spirit would have lived on.

However, if you want to get technical with it, lemme use another example: Kaiobito can use the Kai Kai to teleport Gill to the Kaioshin's Planetoid (where Gohan pulled out the Z sword), then teleport away. Since the planetoid is in another dimension, Gill would be unable to get back to the fight. Same concept, different dimension

Bibidi is DEAD. You can't use him in this debate. You can use Babidi, because he is alive during the actual events of DBZ.

I know. I said it would be cool...

I mean keep form as in they retain their appearance when they were alive. Those little puffs lined up to see King Enma are helpless and without their original form.
Because Gill is a God, he can still change temperatures and control the elements, but he can't physically interact with anything, e.g. touch or punch.

Even so, the spirit cannot interact with the real world. Goku, while in his spirit form, cannot go back to the real world and use a Kamehameha or any other powers. Therefore, Gill's spirit, even though it's in the real world, cannot use any special powers (even temperature changes) regardless of his level of deity

Joe, your lack of common sense is annoying me. Gill can lower the temperature AROUND THE LAB, AROUND THE BUILDING, THROUGH THE GROUND AROUND THE BUILDING TOO to Absolute Zero. NOT THE INSIDE, BUT AROUND THE OUTSIDE.

...and though Goku can't fly towards the "Absolute Zero Wall" lest he be frozen, he'll still be outside the lab, and be able to lock onto any power inside the lab, teleport inside, and blow it up.

Goku can lock onto any ki signal, yes, but he CAN'T know which ki signals are the lab technicians. NO way.

Yes he can, even from far away, though it would take a long time. However, if he tails Gill to the lab, and even if Gill makes an Absolute Zero Shield, Goku will be very close to the lab (pretty much on its doorstep), and can easily lock onto a power that's inside the lab (after all, he'll be right there). Once he does so, he can teleport inside, then destroy the lab.

1. Gill can't go to the afterlife. Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu attempt is enough to prove that. 'Nuff said.

Fine. He can use another dimension. For example, Kaiobito can teleport Gill to either the ROSAT dimension and leave him stranded there (the door IS gone, after all), or to the dimension where Kaiobito's planetoid is located. Either way, Gill would be stranded there with no way out. (Kaiobito's Kai Kai does not need a ki target, unlike Goku's Shunkan Idou. Therefore, he can teleport to a random dimension)

2. I am so damn tired of this King Enma crap, so let me set this straight. King Enma does NOT get involved in ANYTHING unless it is the end of the universe. The battle between the DBZ fighters and Street Fighter is NOT a battle for the sake universe, so King Enma couldn't care less. He would do NOTHING.

Not true. Enma allowed Goku to travel Snake Way to receive training from North Kaio-sama. Technically, he should have just sent Goku to Heaven, but he allowed Goku to go past Snake Way anyway. Same as Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Tenshinhan. He let them travel Snake Way, but wasn't supposed to. He was supposed to send them to Heaven, but didn't.

3. If you have Buu in the equation, then Cell is already perfected. Perfect Cell can't do that.

True.

And as long as we're talking about special powers, I've got another special power for you...

Though this never happened, it CAN happen...

They can send ppl like Buruma and Chaozu to gather the Dragonballs, then make a wish for one or more of the following:

-They can wish that Goku is immortal
-They can wish for the Dragon to revoke Gill's god-status
-They can wish that any of the Z fighters can be immortal
-They can wish that any of the Z fighters be given the same god-status as Gill

So technically, the Dragonballs could (and prolly WOULD) win the fight for DBZ

[princevegetam]

i just have one question.

do you have any proof that gill can use his powers in his "spirit" form? or any proof that gill is a god or immortal? cause that txt file tarkan provided me with doesn't say anything about that.

[Nantuko Joe]

I believe them that he's a god, but I don't think Gill can do jack #### in his spirit form

[Dan Hibiki]

F**cking computer glitch... I typed up this whole page of proofs...

Gill's temperature changes are as close to instantaneous as something can be. He's a God with complete control of the elements, and can do whatever the heck he wants with them however fast he wants. Molecular motion can be stopped the very next instant after he commands it. In any case, it is so fast that the DBZ fighters would not be able to react in time. (That make ya happy now?!)

princevegetam, this has been stated so many times. The fact that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu, which sends the SOUL to Hell, could not affect Gill in any way PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is an immortal.

Now onto the Shun Goku Satsu and what it REALLY does. The Shun Goku Satsu does not KILL the body, to say. It sends the soul to Hell, and if the target's soul doesn't return from Hell when Akuma comes back (for he is sent to Hell for the duration of the attack too), then the body dies from a lack of connectivity with the soul. It failed on Gill because Gill's soul couldn't be sent to Hell in the first place.

Joe, what was it that Goku was doing during the first part of the Buu Saga? Oh yeah, he was a SPIRIT INTERACTING WITH THE REAL WORLD TO BE IN THE TOURNAMENT. NO BODY. JUST SPIRIT. Smack. If he had a body, then he wouldn'tve had the halo over his head. By this stroke of logic, Gill can interact with the physical world at the very least through elemental manipulation when in his spirit form.

Joe, what were the Saiyans doing that the time that King Enma allowed Goku to travel to Snake Way? Oh, that's right, they were DESTROYING ENTIRE PLANETS. Hmm... looks suspiciously like taking action to save the universe...

If you're going to pull that, "Summon Shenlong," crap on me, then I'll lay it out for you. Seven Dragonballs are scattered about the planet. At least one can be found by a member of Gill's organization, and have it shattered on command. No SEVEN Dragonballs, no Shenlong.

[Nantuko Joe]

Gill's temperature changes are as close to instantaneous as something can be. He's a God with complete control of the elements, and can do whatever the heck he wants with them however fast he wants. Molecular motion can be stopped the very next instant after he commands it. In any case, it is so fast that the DBZ fighters would not be able to react in time. (That make ya happy now?!)princevegetam, this has been stated so many times. The fact that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu, which sends the SOUL to Hell, could not affect Gill in any way PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is an immortal.

Just because he's an immortal doesn't mean he's a godly deity. But as far as the temperature thing goes...whatever you say.

Now onto the Shun Goku Satsu and what it REALLY does. The Shun Goku Satsu does not KILL the body, to say. It sends the soul to Hell, and if the target's soul doesn't return from Hell when Akuma comes back (for he is sent to Hell for the duration of the attack too), then the body dies from a lack of connectivity with the soul. It failed on Gill because Gill's soul couldn't be sent to Hell in the first place.

Right. His soul can't be sent to hell. However, I abandoned the afterlife thing and went on to specify different dimensions that Gill can be trapped in with no escape. IE, the ROSAT dimension, Kaiobito's dimension, etc

Joe, what was it that Goku was doing during the first part of the Buu Saga? Oh yeah, he was a SPIRIT INTERACTING WITH THE REAL WORLD TO BE IN THE TOURNAMENT. NO BODY. JUST SPIRIT. Smack. If he had a body, then he wouldn'tve had the halo over his head. By this stroke of logic, Gill can interact with the physical world at the very least through elemental manipulation when in his spirit form.

Wrong. When Goku was allowed back to the real world, he was given 0a temporary body with a set amount of energy. When he went SSJ3, instead of draining away life energy, it drained away the energy given to him for being on earth. Also, that is why he was able to exist in the dimension where Kaioshin's planetoid is located: he had a temporary body. The problem was, Goku's body was dead in that dimension. When the Rou Dai Kaioshin gave his life to allow Goku to return to the real world, he didn't give his body, but his LIFE ENERGY, and that is what allowed Goku to return for good. But when he was allowed to return for the tournament, he was given a temporary body. Same as Vegeta when he was allowed to return to fight Buu.

Joe, what were the Saiyans doing that the time that King Enma allowed Goku to travel to Snake Way? Oh, that's right, they were DESTROYING ENTIRE PLANETS. Hmm... looks suspiciously like taking action to save the universe...

Umm...no. The Saiya-jins were merely going to go to earth to get the Dragonballs. The only planet they destroyed was Arlia. And the only reason Vegeta wanted the balls was to wish for immortality so he could overthrow Furiza, who at the time was the tyrant of the universe. Therefore, Enma allowed Goku to go through Snake Way so he could receive training to PREVENT THE SAIYA-JINS FROM GETTING THE DRAGONBALLS, not from DESTROYING THE GALAXY

If you're going to pull that, "Summon Shenlong," crap on me, then I'll lay it out for you. Seven Dragonballs are scattered about the planet. At least one can be found by a member of Gill's organization, and have it shattered on command. No SEVEN Dragonballs, no Shenlong.

First off, the Dragonballs are unlocatable without the Dragon Radar. That is why Goku had to delay Buu so Trunks could get the Radar--without the Radar, you can't find the Dragonballs. And who is the only person with the Dragon Radar? Is it "Gill's organization"? No. Is it Buruma and the Z-gang? You guessed it.

Second off, I don't believe the Dragonballs can be destroyed. The only way to render them useless is to kill Dende (who will probably go into hiding the moment the fighting begins).

Third and lastly off, Kaiobito or someone else can easily make contact with the Nameks on New Namek and use their set of Dragonballs. And no one from "Gill's organization" can get in a spaceship and blast off to New Namek in time to stop Porunga from appearing and granting the wish.

[Roll]

Other forms? How do you mean?
Other forms as in Frogs, Bunnies, CHOCOLATE... etc...http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sly.gif

And how can you say she has greater spells than Bibidi and Babidi just because he's been practicing them on Street Fighters? Babidi was thousands of years old when he died, and we never saw the extent of his sorcery. Bibidi was probably even more powerful, for he was the one who actually created Buu.
Probably.... and he may not be more powerful. He may have created Buu, but remember, Tessa is from a different world than Babadi & Bibidi. So they're all the most powerful casters in their world.

Now if Bibidi was revived, he'd theoretically have the power to create a second Buu, and that would be a HUGE advantage for DBZ...
Yeah.... if he is revived.

Second off, I don't believe the Dragonballs can be destroyed. The only way to render them useless is to kill Dende (who will probably go into hiding the moment the fighting begins).
What's to stop them from finding him and killing him?

Buu can only be re-trapped in the egg shell by Bibidi or Babidi.
Proof, please! :biggrin:

BTW....do you like the new smilies? ^-^ I'm dying to know! *giggles*

[mysticveggeto]

HOW DO YOU QOUT SO MUCH LIKE NATUKO :D

[Dan Hibiki]

Joe, how do you think the Red Ribbon army found the Dragonballs in DB? The first few were found without the Dragon Radar. Gill's organization could easily spot just one of them and shatter it. The Dragonballs CAN be destroyed, because why would Kullilin try to shatter it when the Ginyu Force arrived?

If you're going to keep on saying that the Dragonballs can't be destroyed, then we can just say Gill > Dende, and that Dende is killed.

Roll, that new smilie scares me...

[Roll]

Roll, that new smilie scares me...
Aww... I got others though. How much do you want to bet Nantuko's gonna wake up in the morning and think about this?
http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/cutie.gif

[QUIET_KILLER]

[quote:post_uid4="mysticveggeto"]HOW DO YOU QOUT SO MUCH LIKE NATUKO :D[/quote:post_uid4]
[color=blue:post_uid4]Do you mean why?
They quote so much.
Or how do they do it?

Well they quote one another.
To make sure they.
Read what they did right.
As well to make some one.
Eat their own words as well :biggrin:

Also they can base.
The truth of some.
Of their own fact's on.
The quotes alone by itself.

Now to quote some one.
You can Just press.
The button that say's quote.
That help's as well.

You can Just click on the.
Quote button when.
You are reading a topic.
Or you can press reply.
Then look then quote.
By paste and copy :biggrin:[/color:post_uid4]

[Nantuko Joe]

Other forms as in Frogs, Bunnies, CHOCOLATE... etc...

Right...

Probably.... and he may not be more powerful. He may have created Buu, but remember, Tessa is from a different world than Babadi & Bibidi. So they're all the most powerful casters in their world.

Lemme ask you a question...Can this "tessa" use her "powerful magic" to create a being capable of total destruction that has the ability to kill off Gods? I dont' think so. And Bibidi and Babidi were the most powerful casters in THEIR world

Proof, please!

It is stated in both the manga and the anime, genius. Beat that.

Joe, how do you think the Red Ribbon army found the Dragonballs in DB? The first few were found without the Dragon Radar. Gill's organization could easily spot just one of them

True, my mistake. I was so focused on the DBZ aspect of the fight, I forgot about the events of Dragonball

Gill's organization could easily spot just one of them and shatter it. The Dragonballs CAN be destroyed, because why would Kullilin try to shatter it when the Ginyu Force arrived?

Bah...I forgot. Damn it.

However, there is still the issue of the Namek Dragonballs that would summon Porunga. Someone like Kaiobito or Dende could contact the new Saichourou (Guru) on New Namek and get them to make the wish. Gill's Organization would be unable to get to New Namek (they have no idea where the hell it is), and would not be able to stop the wish(es) from being made.

[Dan Hibiki]

Kaiobito doesn't know where the Hell New Namek is, either. The new Guru of Namek doesn't have the level of power the old Saichourou has, either, because he was the father to the entire race, and had deep psychic connections to only what is happening on the planet he is on. Even if the new Guru of New Namek had Saichourou's powers, it still wouldn't suffice. Dende would not be able to contact New Namek.

You must also consider the amount of time it would take. What if a message COULD be gotten through to the Guru on Namek? He would have to contact the six elders, and then the Dragonballs would have to be assembled. It takes a few days at the very least to fly from some of the villages to others, so it would take over a day AT LEAST to assemble the balls. By that time the battle would have concluded. You see, by the time the DBZ fighters would come to realize that they would need the Dragonballs, Gill's organization would have already ruined the Earth set, and the battle would be to the point where the DBZ fighters would not hold out much longer.

[princevegetam]

krillin had no idea if dragonballs could be destroyed or not, he attempted to destroy it out of desperation, but he didn't get a chance to test his theory. so no one knows if they can be destroyed.

[Nantuko Joe]

At the very least, Goku can. Goku, after all, teleported to New Namek so he can pick up Dende to bring Dende to earth to be the new Kami. Therefore, Goku can teleport to New Namek, lock onto the ki readings of each of the Dragonballs, collect them all in like 3 minutes, then make the wish. What now? What? What?

And unless Gill's organization built a machine to locate seven balls they've never before seen or studied, they would have no way of tracking them. And if the DBZ fighters sent out some low-level PPL (like Yajirobe and Buruma), without the SF fighters knowing (this is before GIll's organ. would be able to destroy the dragonballs), the SF characters would not be able to track them (they do not have the same kind of ki location senses that the DBZ fighters have

[Roll]

Right...
I'm not joking.

Lemme ask you a question...Can this "tessa" use her "powerful magic" to create a being capable of total destruction that has the ability to kill off Gods? I dont' think so. And Bibidi and Babidi were the most powerful casters in THEIR world
Does Bibidi and Babidi have the ability to turn themselves into dragons, change other peoples forms (and lower their power), and tie enemies up to a rocket in the blink of an eye? I dunno... let's wait for your answer. And Tessa is the most powerful spell caster in HER world.

It is stated in both the manga and the anime, genius. Beat that.
Calm down. I was just asking a question. I don't watch/read DBZ everday (or month for that matter).

[Nantuko Joe]

Does Bibidi and Babidi have the ability to turn themselves into dragons, change other peoples forms (and lower their power), and tie enemies up to a rocket in the blink of an eye? I dunno... let's wait for your answer. And Tessa is the most powerful spell caster in HER world.

Possibly, but we never are shown the full extent of Bibidi and Babidi's powers. What we DO know is taht both Bibidi and Babidi have powerful control over evil magic and ki, and can use mind control on a person with evil ki, and control them utterly. They also have telepathic abilities, and can teleport anyone within the confines of their ships to any location in the universe.

And tie someone to a rocket? Please, don't make me laugh. As if the Z fighters can't flex their muscles and break a rope.

Calm down. I was just asking a question. I don't watch/read DBZ everday (or month for that matter).

My bad...

and you can start trying to figure out ways to counterdebate my theories, it will make debating a lot quicker and easier

[Roll]

Thanks for your understanding, Nantuko, and for the advice. I just threw in the tie with a rope to a rocket thing for laughs. She does that as a throw move. Also, I need some time away from the world, so I probably won't use your advice for a bit..
Oh, and the dragon balls have Ki readings? O.o; That's new to me...

[mysticveggeto]

[quote:post_uid2="Nantuko Joe"][color=green:post_uid2]At the very least, Goku can. Goku, after all, teleported to New Namek so he can pick up Dende to bring Dende to earth to be the new Kami. Therefore, Goku can teleport to New Namek, lock onto the ki readings of each of the Dragonballs, collect them all in like 3 minutes, then make the wish. What now? What? What?

And unless Gill's organization built a machine to locate seven balls they've never before seen or studied, they would have no way of tracking them. And if the DBZ fighters sent out some low-level PPL (like Yajirobe and Buruma), without the SF fighters knowing (this is before GIll's organ. would be able to destroy the dragonballs), the SF characters would not be able to track them (they do not have the same kind of ki location senses that the DBZ fighters have[/color:post_uid2][/quote:post_uid2]
theres no new namek they just whent some were in earth

[Roll]

....Ignore that. Before you even think about flaming him, look at his sig... it explains a whole lot.

[DARKPICCOLO]

....Ignore that. Before you even think about flaming him, look at his sig... it explains a whole lot.
point taken :lol:

[Dan Hibiki]

Still, I want to smack him for even saying that...

Tired. Will debate more tomorrow.

[Nantuko Joe]

Oh, and the dragon balls have Ki readings? O.o; That's new to me...

It's kind of odd. They don't have ki readouts like the fighters do, but they have a slight power output that allows them to track them. However, they can't do it with the Earth's Dragonballs, since they're not the original set. Porunga's Dragonballs, since they are the original, have the power outputs

....Ignore that. Before you even think about flaming him, look at his sig... it explains a whole lot.

Trying....to supress...instinct to FLAME LIKE HELL...too...hard...must....resist...GYAHHHHH!

[Roll]

Come on, guys, we've got to keep this going until DBZ or SF wins!

They also have telepathic abilities, and can teleport anyone within the confines of their ships to any location in the universe.
Yeah.. too bad they probably aren't in the ship. Even if they were, the ship would/could be destroyed/melted pretty fast.

[chun_ai]

i chose dragon ball because the db characters are, in short, just plain Stronger, faster, and have more abilitis.
I mean, its not like Ryu can possibly turn into a super saiyan.

[chun_ai]

p.s. SF is also kind of cool, tooo.

[Rocky Balboa]

even tho goku and all of them, can turn into "super saiyans" i think, that akuma can beat any dbz character thats not a super saiyan, becuz akuma is so strong, can breathe under water, and destroy mountains!!!!

In conclusion: my Winner: SF

[Roll]

...Rocky, yes, he would *probably* be a match for a lot of the DB"Z" fighters, but he cannot win the fight alone. However, we're currently figuring out who will win! ^-^ I just need Nantuko (DB"Z" side's top person) to come back and make, like, 15,000 arguments!

[apocolypse83]

Dang you guys must be sorry asses because anyone over 7 years old who watches dragonballZ is a total loser. :buttrock:

[princevegetam]

Dang you guys must be sorry asses because anyone over 7 years old who watches dragonballZ is a total loser. :buttrock:
oh really?! so are you calling me a loser? huh?! and just what makes me a loser? so dbz makes me a loser huh?! care to explain why?

[KidKrazyShit]

and destroy mountains!!!!
OH NOOOOOO!!!!! destroy mountains!!!! Will any dbz character be able to stand up aganist this mountain destroying monster?!?!?!?

apocolypse83: Join theSFPOA (http://nferno666.sytes.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=15141)

[Nantuko Joe]

even tho goku and all of them, can turn into "super saiyans" i think, that akuma can be any dbz character thats not a super saiyan, becuz akuma is so strong, can breathe under watever, and destroy mountains!!!!

In conclusion: my Winner: SF

Wow...destroy mountains. That's really strong. Wait, no it isn't. Kuririn can do that. Hell, Kuririn can prolly destroy a planet if he wants to. DOn't make unsupported assumptions and claims

Dang you guys must be sorry asses because anyone over 7 years old who watches dragonballZ is a total loser.

Trying...to resist...instinct to flame...cannot...contain it anymore...will...go postal on apocalypse's ass...GYAHHHHH!!!

Apocalypse83: DragonballZ was created in Japan aimed at adult audiences. IE, teenagers. Now, unless you can name any cartoon for 7-year-olds that includes serious death (not cartoony, Roadrunner and Coyote death), swearing, blood, and minor nudity, then <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>SHUT...THE HELL...UP!!</span>

...Rocky, yes, he would *probably* be a match for a lot of the DB"Z" fighters, but he cannot win the fight alone. However, we're currently figuring out who will win! ^-^ I just need Nantuko (DB"Z" side's top person) to come back and make, like, 15,000 arguments!

[color=green]I'm waiting for YOU to respond to like 15,000 arguments

[Dan Hibiki]

apocalypse83, I have five letters for you: SFPOA.

[apocolypse83]

Ok what is spfoa or whatever?

[Dan Hibiki]

Stupid F**cking People Of America. You BELONG there.

[Nantuko Joe]

apocalypse, here is your personal invitation to the SFPOA:

http://www.mallarky.net/images/SFPOA_Nantuko.jpg

Now, back to debating DBZvsSF

[Roll]

......Where were we?

[marvel911]

Stupid F**cking People Of America.
Now who creates something called that?..the answer is also a member of the club.

[Gotenks13]

About the SPFOA: I once thought that I wanted to join that club...now I think I've changed my mind...

DB"Z" vs SF: DBZ would win...I thought we decided that about 8 or 9 pages ago...

[Nantuko Joe]

Stupid F**cking People Of America.
Now who creates something called that?..the answer is also a member of the club.
Here you go, another special invitation:

http://www.boomspeed.com/nantuko/SFPOA_Dan.jpg

Now, back to debating...

Roll: I have no idea

[Gotenks13]

Ya gotta love that pick...

Lets talk about...umm...crap...someone go find where we were...

[justi313]

i definitly know it sf b cuz dragon ball is wen goku was a little boy and dragon ball "z" is wen u hav like cell gohan gotenx on them :buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

[Nantuko Joe]

We already established the fact that if it were Dragonball, SF would win. However, we're talking mainly about DragonballZ, and if you ask me, DBZ would win, and if you look throughout the topic, you'll see my reasons why.

[Roll]

I've gots to think of ways to eliminate Buu from the battle. I know it can be done by at least some of the SF people...

[SBYRD5]

Simple perhaps Bison and Dalhsim could create an blackhole,and send Buu into it.

Now your going to say "Buu wouldn't willing go into the black."
Or he would scream just like the show.

Wrong the black hole would continue to suck everything inside.Buu would escape then just go right back in.

Oh man,but the earth would get sucked in too.

Nevermine. ???

[princevegetam]

um... who said dhalsim or bison could create a black hole?

[Gotenks13]

...Roll...

I have a slight...wait, huge feeling that Buu is stronger than any black hole...remember, he collected and controlled all that energy from millions of planets...

[Roll]

Btw, the Cell absorbtion idea won't work. Cell can ONLY absorb those who are weaker than him. All those that are stronger will not be able to be absorbed. And even if he could be absorbed, it takes time to get them through the entire tail. During that time, Gill could use Seraphic wing and blow him away.

And about Buu's absorbtion... here are some weaknesses about the absorbtion techniques:

1)Vicitms taken out of Buu can cause a fluxation of his form.
2)Victims of Buu influence his personality.

Will post more later.

[Gotenks13]

...Who are we trying to eliminate?

[Roll]

You (DBZ) are trying to eliminate Gill. For more info on Gill, check back a few pages.

[SBYRD5]

um... who said dhalsim or bison could create a black hole?
I did, I remebered that Dhalsim is also a scientist along with his Degree in Yoga Mastery.lol

[Gotenks13]

...Nothing...nothing at all...

definitly know it sf b cuz dragon ball is wen goku was a little boy and dragon ball "z" is wen u hav like cell gohan gotenx on them

Did he just spell Gotenks wrong? Ithink he did...dude, you deserve a swift kick to the arse... :biggrin:

[Nantuko Joe]

Btw, the Cell absorbtion idea won't work. Cell can ONLY absorb those who are weaker than him. All those that are stronger will not be able to be absorbed. And even if he could be absorbed, it takes time to get them through the entire tail. During that time, Gill could use Seraphic wing and blow him away.

First off, there's nothing that states that Cell can't absorb anyone stronger than him. He was able to absorb Piccolo, but only succeeded in absorbing his arm, and Piccolo was a whole lot stronger than Cell at that point. Furthermore, nothing says that Perfect Cell cannot absorb anyone. Perfect Cell was perfect when he absorbed 18, but then 18 got spat out. When Cell regererated from the self-destruction, he was in his perfect form only because of his power level (some big complicated thing, dont' really want to get into it). However, because he still doesn't have either Android 17 or 18 in his body at that point, he's not truly "perfect" and can still absorb ppl.

And about Buu's absorbtion... here are some weaknesses about the absorbtion techniques:

1)Vicitms taken out of Buu can cause a fluxation of his form.
2)Victims of Buu influence his personality.

Will post more later.

[color=green]1) Yes, if Gill manages to escape Buu, Buu will change to a weaker form. But that's IF Gill manages to escape him.

2) Not always.
The only time Buu's personality was influenced by a victim was when he absorbed the Dai Kaioshin. Because of the Dai Kaioshin's godly status and good nature, when Buu became Fat Buu, he also inherited Dai's good nature.

However, when Buu absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan, his personality did not change. He had only inherited their powers and knowledge, not their personality. He was able to keep their thoughts tucked into the back of his "mind" and access them whenever he felt like doing so. However, he did not adapt their personalities

[Roll]

Either way, Nantuko, I still eliminated the Cell absorbtion, so.. ^.~

[Gotenks13]

You did? I'm not so sure...but...

Aren't there any more ways to get Gill out of the battle other than absorbing him? Maybe...just maybe, they could destroy his body along with that little "body factory" and he wouldn't have a body anymore...and why is he immortal when his body can be destroyed? Is it because of that little "body factory"? If it is, thats not much of an immortality. Like I've said before, all souls are immortal. They can't be destroyed, so actually, we're all frickin immortal d@mm!t!!!

[Nantuko Joe]

Either way"]

No you didn't. Go reread the first part of my last post

[quote:post_uid0=""Gotenks13""]Aren't there any more ways to get Gill out of the battle other than absorbing him? Maybe...just maybe, they could destroy his body along with that little "body factory" and he wouldn't have a body anymore...and why is he immortal when his body can be destroyed? Is it because of that little "body factory"? If it is, thats not much of an immortality. Like I've said before, all souls are immortal. They can't be destroyed, so actually, we're all frickin immortal d@mm!t!!!

According to Tarkan, he's immortal because his spirit can't go to the afterlife. And that destroy body/destroy factory thing, I've been saying that for the past 3 pages. If you destroy his body, and destroy the factory, then only his spirit will remain, and you can't fight with your spirit

[Roll]

*giggles* Like I said before... if he wants to absorb someone, then he'd take some time to do that. It's not super fast, like Buu's absorbtion techniques, you know. During the time it takes to absorb the whole body, Gill could use Seraphic Wing on Cell, and destroy him/his tail (depending on how it's aimed) and escape.

BTW, Can you tell me again how they would even find the factory? I forgot... ???

[Nantuko Joe]

It's simple. They destroy Gill's body. Gill goes to the factory to get his other body, and the Z fighters tail him there. Dan says that Gill will create a Absolute Zero barrier AROUND the factory so noone can get in. However, since they're in such close proximity to the factory, Goku can Shunkan Idou (using a scientist as a ki target) into the factory and destroy it. No more bodies. No more Gill. End of story

[Dan Hibiki]

Um, I also said that Goku would get his ass fried if he tried that. Gill would be there waiting and just toast him with an instant char-to-a-crisp temperature.

[Nantuko Joe]

...and when Gill tries to roast Goku with a "instant char-to-a-crisp temperature", Goku uses his "instant teleport away" move to teleport inside the factory and away from the "instant char-to-a-crisp temperature."

Like I said, Gill would have to reenter another body to use powers. Spirits can't use powers. They can all follow Gill's spirit, and teleport into the factory and destroy his body before he reenters, then destroy the rest of the factory. End of story

[Dan Hibiki]

Your argument is absolutely full of holes. Gill would know that Goku'd be following him, and he'd anticipate Goku entering and fry his ass. Goku wouldn't know what hit him.

[Nantuko Joe]

There are no holes involved. Lemme break this down step-by-step:

Scenario 1
-Gill's body is destroyed. Gill's spirit heads towards factory
-Goku and/or others follow Gill's spirit
-Gill's spirit arrives at factory
-Before Gill enters factory and enters new body, Goku destroys factory.
-Gill's factory is destroyed, Gill's body is destroyed, Gill's spirit remains and is unable to fight

Scenario 2
-Gill's body is destroyed. Gill's spirit heads towards factory
-Goku and/or others follow Gill's spirit
-Gill's spirit arrives at factory and re-enters body before Z fighter can destroy factory
-Gill creates a "Absolute Zero" barrier around factory
-Goku uses Shunkan Idou to teleport INSIDE factory, then blows it up
-Z fighters destroy Gill in his last body, and Gill's spirit remains and is unable to fight

Scenario 3
-Gill's body is destroyed. Gill's spirit heads towards factory
-Goku and/or others follow Gill's spirit
-Gill's spirit arrives at factory and re-enters body before Z fighter can destroy factory
-Goku senses the moment Gill's spirit enters body and Shunkan Idous into the factory

Now, one of two things can happen:
1.) Gill uses a "instant char-to-a-crisp temperature" to kill Goku. However, the temperature cannot be confined to a small area, and will destroy everything inside the Factory (including scientists and bodies-in-the-making). Goku, now dead, is revived by Enma and returns to the fight
2.) Goku destroys the factory before Gill uses the "instant char-to-a-crisp temperature". The factory and all but one body is destroyed (the body that Gill's spirit is inhabiting)

[Dan Hibiki]

They CAN'T follow Gill's spirit. We ALREADY covered that! We ALREADY covered that Gill's ki signal would only resurface AFTER he entered his body again, so he would have ALREADY entered a new body by the time Goku was able to IT into the factory. This means that Gill could FRY Goku's ass.

Gill doesn't have to destroy Goku's ENTIRE body. He can increase the temperature in Goku's brain and fry IT. It doesn't take much to fry a brain. Goku = dead. Factory = okay.

[Gotenks13]

Is Gill's spirit invisible? Can't Enma or one of the Kai's see spirits? Maybe they can track him and tell the other "Z" Fighters where it is...Gill has body, goes to fight one or to of the "Z" Fighters, another one goes and destroys the factory. Later, Gill's body is destroyed...end of story. :biggrin:

[Dan Hibiki]

Where's TarkanX when you need him in a debate...

[Roll]

He quit. He doesn't like one sided debates... and there was another reason, but he never shared that one with me. I think I figured that reason out though...

revived by Enma
You're never going to agree with the fact that Enma could, but would not revive the Z fighters for this type of fight until the end of it, will you?

One question.... do they have to be killed to be defeated?

[Scorponok]

Sorry this has nothing to do with what your talking about, but Unicron could probably crush any DragonBall characters and Street Fighter..

[princevegetam]

hmm... isn't he that guy with the two horns from transformers?

[Scorponok]

This guy (http://www.unicron.com/mainpage/unicron/unicron.htm)http://www.unicron.com/mainpage/unicron/cartoon/unicronplanetmode07.jpghttp://www.unicron.com/mainpage/unicron/cartoon/unicronplanetmode01.jpgyeah, your righthttp://www.unicron.com/mainpage/unicron/cartoon/unicronbotmode06.jpghope that's not too many pics lol. Sry, off topic.

[Gotenks13]

Sorry this has nothing to do with what your talking about, but Unicron could probably crush any DragonBall characters and Street Fighter..

That could have been prevented...

You're never going to agree with the fact that Enma could, but would not revive the Z fighters for this type of fight until the end of it, will you?

One question.... do they have to be killed to be defeated?

1. We are able to use any powers we can to defeat SF...sooo...why wouldn't he do it before the end?

2. I think that earlier someone said it just had to be a K.O. so I'm not too sure anymore. If it were K.O.s though, DBZ would still win.

[princevegetam]

yeah, that unicron guy looks pretty cool, but who said he couldn't be defeated by DBZ characters? he's about the size of a planet, so vegeta or somebody can just blow him in to pieces.

[Scorponok]

LOL yeah, but Unicron also has another form, an essence thingy. He's the chaos bringer, formed from all hatred and chaos and destruction. Only rival is Primus, a light god that defeated him leading him to crashing into an asteroid while in their spirit forms. Unicron reformatted his prison into the mechanical monster you see, and Primus into Cybertron and the Matrix, which very easily defeated Unicron. But as this has nothing to do with this I promise I'll stop posting here about Transformers..

[Gotenks13]

Yeah...good idea...why don't ya go make a topic on Transfromers...

[Roll]

Sorry this has nothing to do with what your talking about, but Unicron could probably crush any DragonBall characters and Street Fighter..

That could have been prevented...

You're never going to agree with the fact that Enma could, but would not revive the Z fighters for this type of fight until the end of it, will you?

One question.... do they have to be killed to be defeated?

1. We are able to use any powers we can to defeat SF...sooo...why wouldn't he do it before the end?

2. I think that earlier someone said it just had to be a K.O. so I'm not too sure anymore. If it were K.O.s though, DBZ would still win.
I never said he wouldn't bring them back... I just said (in the past, with Dan, and now again) that Enma would know not to bring them back until the fight is over. After it is all done, then he could/would send them back. The reasoning for this, is because he's shown that he only sends people back when he really needs to. Otherwise, he just lets them be. This should be in the manga, as it usually shows all emotions from each and every character. However....

[Nantuko Joe]

You're never going to agree with the fact that Enma could, but would not revive the Z fighters for this type of fight until the end of it, will you?

Who are you to say that he wouldn't do it? Sure, he's only done so in extreme cases. However, normally, Shin Bison wouldn't be fighting alongside Ryu, and any bad guys of SF wouldn't be fighting on the same team as the good guys, would they? Furiza and Gohan wouldn't normally be on the same team, would they?

This debate is not under ordinary circumstances. Therefore, Lord Enma can indeed revive dead fighters. Furthermore, the Z Fighters can use the Dragonballs (either the earth set or the New Namek set) to wish a fighter immortality, or for the Dragon to revoke Gill's diety status.

[princevegetam]

lol, and i bet all the dbz characters can teach each other the fusion dance and fuse into a super being.

[Roll]

Actually, Shin Bison would probably fight the DBZ people to uncover their "true power" so that he could try to absorb it into his Psyco Power, and the same thing goes for a lot of other people (except without the Psyco power part...).

[Dan Hibiki]

Enma would NOT bring back fighters. It is NOT a fight to save the universe.

[Gotenks13]

Didn't he just say that the fight wasn't on normal circumstances?

[Nantuko Joe]

Yep, I did say the fight was not under normal circumstances. Lemme break it down for you guys:

-This debate is SF Universe vs DBZ Universe (ie, ALL characters from SF vs ALL characters from DBZ)

-Lord Enma is a character in DBZ

-Lord Enma, for the purpose of this debate, also has special abilities (resurrection) that he can (and in this fight, will) use to help his side (DBZ) win the fight. This includes his resurrection ability. Had this been a normal fight under normal circumstances, true, Enma would not use his resurrection. But this is no normal fight, this is a "who would win", and if Enma is considered a character, then it's unfair to restrict his abilities. He can indeed use his resurrection in this debate. It's a power he has, he's used it before, and he can use it again

[Dan Hibiki]

You are NOT thinking, Nantuko Joe, and you are NOT taking into account Enma's personality. We can reason that Shin Bison has his own reasons for fighting, but we CAN'T reason that somehow Enma thinks that it is crucial to resurrect the DBZ fighters. NO WAY.

Not only is your argument cheesy and an attempt at getting back at Gill's mere existence in the SF world, it is also complete bull no matter how you break it down. Enma would NEVER do such a thing as you are describing.

Even if you said that Shin Bison wouldn't fight along with the SF fighters, then it would not change anything. It has already been determined that Shin Bison wouldn't do anything significant to the balance of power.

[Nantuko Joe]

[color=green]Chill out dude. I was using Shin Bison as an example. This is what I'm trying to get across...

You're correct in saying "Enma would NEVER do such a thing, blah blah blah, blah blah blah". It's all true, but only under NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. In the true DBZ storyline, then yes, Enma would not revive someone unless it was a life-or-death situation.

However, under normal circumstances, would the sides of good and evil in Street Fighter be fighting alongside each other? Would they just say "Screw our lifelong feud, let's get DBZ!"? No. Would Goku NORMALLY be fighting alongside his worst enemies? No? Would Street Fighter characters even be fighting against DragonballZ characters? No?

Now, in this debate, it's ALL of the Street Fighter characters versus ALL of the DBZ characters. Each side wants to win, and can and will do anything possible to help their side win. Enma is a DBZ character. Sure, he wouldn't normally revive someone unless the circumstances are dire, but at this moment, in this debate, he's fighting WITH the DBZ characters, and AGAINST the SF characters, and for the purpose of this debate, will do ANYTHING to help the DBZ fighters the win. This includes resurrection.

If there was a SF fighter who only used a special attack in extreme, sake-of-the-world situations, would you include him in this debate? Even if it would win you the debate?

Enma, for the sake of this debate, is like any of the Z fighters. He's fighting alongside them to destroy the enemy. If constant resurrection would help the Z fighters to the win, then so be it, he can do so. But you can't say "he wouldn't do it in the DBZ storyline, so he can't do it here," because if that were the case, then you could also say "Buu can't fight alongside Goku, because he wouldn't do it in the DBZ storyline."

[Roll]

Well, if you're still going on about the Enma thing, then I think I have a way to stop it. Morrigan can be used in this fight, because she has been included in the SF universe before. If you want proof, check the SFA2 Ken's stage, and look at these pictures:

Pic 1 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213443.png)
Pic 2 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213455.png)
Pic 3 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213500.png)
Pic 4 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213505.png)
Pic 5 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213512.png)
Pic 6 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213516.png)
Pic 7 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213524.png)
Pic 8 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213527.png)
Pic 9 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213531.png)
Pic 10 (http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sgemf-213543.png)

Check both of these things out, and like Tarkan said "Trust the gameplay, not the manga". So, Morrigan can and will be used in this debate.

[Nantuko Joe]

Okay, that's fine. That series of pics seriously came from a game? How sad...

[Dan Hibiki]

Well, technically because Morrigan is included, if somehow this debate continues we can call on the other Darkstalkers by association.

It did happen in a game. We win. Morrigan steals all of the Z fighter's souls, making it so that King Enma can't do anything.

[TarkanX]

Just wanted to drop by...

Roll: replying to your post about Morrigan in SF universe, those pics don't count. Pocket Fighter, or Super Puzzle fighter doesn't coincide with the SF storyline, and the Morrigan, and others in Ken's Alpha 2 stage is just a dress up birthday party for Eliza.

[princevegetam]

tarkan is right, morrigan isn't a street fighter. those pocket/puzzle fighter things are just like the vs series, they're mixed up by capcom.

[Blogen]

tarkan is right, morrigan isn't a street fighter. those pocket/puzzle fighter things are just like the vs series, they're mixed up by capcom.
Yep

[Gotenks13]

You have permission to stop agreeing with Tarkan...

[Nantuko Joe]

So, now SF has to deal with Lord Enma AND a couple sets of Dragonballs. Face it, DBZ has this fight in the bag...

[Roll]

We have not yet begun to debate.

[Nantuko Joe]

We haven't begun to debate? So, in your own words, please explain what's been going on for the past 74 PAGES!?

j/k, j/k :D

IMO, if Enma can revive the Z fighters infinately, and they can use one (or both) sets of Dragonballs to make any wish (a combined total of 5 wishes), then I'm pretty sure nothing can stop the Z team.

[Roll]

...well... actually.... I'll have to ask Dan about something, because I don't want to screw up this debate by adding it if it just wierds everything out.

[Dan Hibiki]

Joe, Enma would never revive the Z warriors for something so very petty. You can't go against his personality. Through PURE AND UNADULTERATED LOGIC that part of your agument is done.

You can somehow argue that Shin Bison would cooperate with Ryu (loosely) and that Goku and Kid Buu would cooperate (loosely) as well using some argument (there's been such odd alliances in DBZ, like Vegeta and Goku), but the simple fact is that Enma doesn't give a damn.

[Gotenks13]

Dan, why won't you get it through your thick A&W Rot Beer head that this isn't under normal circumstances...we might as well say we can change their personalities...

*personality change*

Gotenks: Enma, will you infinitely revive us if we get killed during this debate?

Enma: Sure.

There you go...

As for the Dragonballs, 5 wishes should be more than enough to stop SF...

1. Take away Gill's immortality.

2. Give all or just one of the "Z" fighters immortality.

3. Force SF to forfeit the debate. :biggrin:

4. Still two wishes...

5. What now?

P.S.- Dan, you're not really thick-headed are you?

Dan: What are we talking about?

[Dan Hibiki]

IT GOES AGAINST HIS VERY PERSONALITY! DON'T YOU DARE CALL ME THICK-HEADED AGAIN! ALSO, THIS IS BETWEEN THE STREET FIGHTERS AND THE DBZ WARRIORS, AND HAS JACK #### TO DO WITH THE DRAGONBALLS!!! ARE THE DRAGONBALLS CHARACTERS?? WHAT IS THAT?? NO???? THAT'S RIGHT! THEY AREN'T PEOPLE, AND CAN'T BE INCLUDED IN THIS DEBATE BECAUSE THEY AREN'T CHARACTERS AND THUSLY DON'T DO #### TO THIS DEBATE!

[Gotenks13]

Joe...come in here...Tarkan...come in here...I can't handle this on my own...

When did we limit this to warriors and characters? Hehe...

And Dan, read my sig...besides, I thought I made it clear in my post that it was a joke...

[Dan Hibiki]

I'm taking a brief respite from this debate. If you can't tell, my blood pressure can't take it.

[TarkanX]

Just have something to say(mostly against DB).


Wasn't this about the people that don't get killed is the winner? So why are people bringing up Emma? If your killed, you lose, even if you get revived, you still lose, since you died.

[Roll]

...Doesn't the seraphic wing attack disintegrate anything in it's path...?


(note: I said something before this, and it was redundant. I changed it to this, so it wouldn't be so...bad)