Street fighter vs. dragon ball(not counting gt.... - Or anything contradtcing the manga)

[ssj2trunks52]

ok then humans only:) how about videl? she is human yet she can fly and use KI attacks:) and she would beat down all of the street fighters :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[princevegetam]

READ!! you idiot !!! STOP POSTING HERE!!! NOW!!! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

WOULD A MOD PLEASE!!! LOCK THIS TOPIC!!

[SBYRD5]

If you truely want this to be closed. PM 2000warrior and it will be done.

[machine1]

u called me a spammer yesterday...and now look at ur status......u had 557 posts yesterday and now 611 .LMFAO
yeah and i do not get them by spamming retart

[DarkKilla]

machine:its another way of smapping man
wrestlemania:its pretty impossible if that happen without spamming



the winner is machine.....yea in ur dreams the reall winner is wrestlemainia

[machine1]

machine:its another way of smapping man
wrestlemania:its pretty impossible if that happen without spamming



the winner is machine.....yea in ur dreams the reall winner is wrestlemainia
winner ??!! winner of what shut up u lil 8 yr old

[DarkKilla]

bah u still too dump as dump as a frog

machine:its another way of smapping man
wrestlemania:its pretty impossible if that happen without spamming



the winner is machine.....yea in ur dreams the reall winner is wrestlemainia
winner ??!! winner of what shut up u lil 8 yr old
yeah even if he is 8 year old..atleast he's nice..
ahhh poor machine1.....
:0

let this topic die now..
bye.

[DarkKilla]

i got a better idea LETS MAKE THIS THE FLAMING AND SPAMMING TOPIC


ok i was just kidding i went out of controll lol
and im 9 not 8 :cry:

[DarkKilla]

yo i typed cry not an old man

[princevegetam]

:angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

you flipin #####! stop posting here!! your puny squabbles are ruining this topic!! this is suppose to be a memory of the great TarkanX!! :angryfire: not a place for you to #### up with your spam

[Nantuko Joe]

Hopefully, this will be the last post. and I don't want anyone to bitch at me for posting, because I haven't posted for the past 9 pages.

First off, I would like to congratulate the main debators (especially TarkanX, even tho he won't read this) for their skill in debating. I have put more effort into this debate than I have done for anything in my entire life.

Next, I would like to submit a request. If any of you mods lock this topic, I ask you guys to do one of two things.

1.) Sticky this topic, so it can never go away, and it can be viewed at any time.

2.) Tell me how to remove the topic from this site so I can post it on my site, and other people may continue the debate that seemed to have ended four pages ago.

Thank you.

[Kolo311]

grrr.....wtf?!why does everyone like DBZ?!its not so great...i mean,at least you can SEE SF fight,not just various blurs...i mean cmon!Raging Demon would kill off "Fried rice" and "Sky"(aka Gohan and Goku translated into english)...oh well...
SF rules
~Shinkuu David

[SBYRD5]

Kolo....no comment..

[princevegetam]

grrr.....wtf?!why does everyone like DBZ?!its not so great...i mean,at least you can SEE SF fight,not just various blurs...i mean cmon!Raging Demon would kill off "Fried rice" and "Sky"(aka Gohan and Goku translated into english)...oh well...
SF rules
~Shinkuu David
SHUT THE #### UP YOU DAMN BASTARD!! DON'T YOU flipIN READ?!! DO NOT POST IN THIS flipIN TOPIC!! AND DAMMIT MODS, LOCK THIS TOPIC!!

[Nantuko Joe]

Princevegetam, shut up. If you don't want to see the #### we're writing, then don't enter the topic

grrr.....wtf?!why does everyone like DBZ?!its not so great...i mean,at least you can SEE SF fight,not just various blurs...i mean cmon!Raging Demon would kill off "Fried rice" and "Sky"(aka Gohan and Goku translated into english)...oh well...
SF rules
~Shinkuu David



The times where the fighting is simply a blur only happens sometimes. Most of the time,you can actually see the punches, kicks, and energy blasts. And at least DBZ has a stable storyline. I don't follow SF, but from what I heard, the SF storyline is fluid, and it changes all the time. WHATS UP WITH THAT? Plus, the DBZ characters' raw power far suprasses that of the SF characters. Name one SF character that has the power to blow up a planet without really trying.

[princevegetam]

:hmmm: it was agreed a long time ago that this would be a rememberance to tarkanx and that no body would post in it anymore. continuing to post in this topic will eventually encourage ##### to fill it with useless spam. i do not wish to see that.

[Nantuko Joe]

Well, this agreement must have been made a long time ago during my absence. I have not agreed to cease posting here, and therefore will continue to do so as I please, so long as it pertains to the topic started by Tarkan X. Just because he's gone doesn't mean that we have to abandon the debate that he started. As long as there is the ability in this thread to debate the topic of Street Fighter versus Dragonball, I will continue to do so. And, no offence, but there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

[princevegetam]

Well, this agreement must have been made a long time ago during my absence. I have not agreed to cease posting here, and therefore will continue to do so as I please, so long as it pertains to the topic started by Tarkan X. Just because he's gone doesn't mean that we have to abandon the debate that he started. As long as there is the ability in this thread to debate the topic of Street Fighter versus Dragonball, I will continue to do so. And, no offence, but there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
lol, stubborn bastard, you'll come around, eventually...

[Nantuko Joe]

lol, stubborn bastard, you'll come around, eventually...



Yes, I am a stubborn bastard. I'm Italian, which makes me very stubborn. Now, back to DBvsSF...

[Ludacris]

:hmmm: it was agreed a long time ago that this would be a rememberance to tarkanx and that no body would post in it anymore. continuing to post in this topic will eventually encourage ##### to fill it with useless spam. i do not wish to see that.
I think if it would have been agreed then one of the mods would have locked it and ended it with a last post saying"In Rememberance Of The Great TarkanX" but since it's not locked yet I don't know why people should stop debating I even think people should continue debating..........it would be more honourable to see that Tarkan's topic still lives on.......but don't start talking about sumthin if it's not with street fighter vs dragonball......... :biggrin:

[Roll]

Please, stop posting in this topic! Leave it alone, and let it be kept in memory of Tarkan. Please...

[Troy88]

You people are being ridiculous. "The Great TarkanX," "In Memory of Tarkan," give me a break. You talk as though he died or something, and this is his funeral, and you all are giving the eulogy. You miss him so much, go talk to him on AIM, his S/N is in his profile. But whatever you do, you need to stop acting like him leaving is the end of the world, and that now we are all required to pay homage to him by following a ridiculous set of politically correct rules, made up by YOU. How would ceasing to post in this topic "keep the memory of TarkanX alive?" If anything, it gives ##### to the community the opportunity to see what kind of person he was. But apparently, around here, letting an intelligent debate fade into obscurity is a good way to "keep someone's memory alive." I fail to see the logic in this.

And as far as the possibility of this topic getting spammed, it already has on more than one occasion, IMO. Welcome to the XMvSF forum, where no topic is spam-free.

Oh, and one other thing I'd like to point out, those of you that take the time to post "let this topic die" are just as guilty as everyone else. You could have just PM'ed them to tell them that, but instead you bump the topic right back up to the top with your redundant message. :p

[princevegetam]

:hmmm:

fine have it your way, we'll just fill this up with a wholesome load of pure spam :laugh:

actually, we should ask tarkanx about this. let's just see his opinion on this matter.

just cut it out people.no more posting now .


dont even say a word now.
let it die :angry:

[Nantuko Joe]

how about this: let's all stop arguing about being able to debate here, and instead actually debate.

[Jr]

DRAGON BALL KICKS ARSE :p

since i have yet to post here :D

[mastaq]

I'm going with Street Fighter on this one. BUT if you did compare GT in this debate... It would win hands down.. ;)

[QUIET_KILLER]

[quote:post_uid9="mastaq"]I'm going with Street Fighter on this one. BUT if you did compare GT in this debate... It would win hands down.. ;)[/quote:post_uid9]
Well I guess I am :withstupid: Also if any one did want this topic to die.They would not post in here in fact.They would have complained to mods.To lock this topic by making another topic.Or a poll based on this as well.Something like should this topic be locked or debated on and so forth.So other people would state their opinion and probably get off topic andspam and try to sneak in a bunch of posts until it would probably get locked :lookaround: @ every one HmMm......I hope I did not give some person an idea to spam the forum [img:post_uid9]http://www.gamegen.com/fightgen/characters/akuma-fireball-pocket.gif[/img:post_uid9]

[ssj2trunks52]

man dbz wins no prob they can destroy a planet with one ki blast but here is a good question tekken vs street fighter I have proven that snk is owned by street fighter:)cept for MAI she is cool..........

[princevegetam]

BULL S HIT! SNK totally owns SF. SNK will always be better than Capcom at coming up with characters. but let's not go off topic now, so i'm gonna make a new topic about this issue.

[johnny5]

if any of yall ever played a dbz game then u'll now that dbz would beat sf in a fight any day. in the games the dbz character's have the ability to fly and they can attack from the sky. sf character's do have more combos than dbz character's in the game though. dbz character's specials take half of ur life away with there super's. who would win in my oppinoin, dbz owns sf :D

[Roll]

[quote:post_uid8="johnny5"]if any of yall ever played a dbz game then u'll now that dbz would beat sf in a fight any day. in the games the dbz character's have the ability to fly and they can attack from the sky. sf character's do have more combos than dbz character's in the game though. dbz character's specials take half of ur life away with there super's. who would win in my oppinoin, dbz owns sf :D[/quote:post_uid8]
First of all, if you read the rules, it would state that we aren't talking about DBZ games, but the manga's. Plus, it's a GROUND battle! No aerial attacks! And you're over-estimating them... but, moving on....
Second of all, <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>QUIT POSTING, DAMNIT!</span>

[krazy87]

ok... well has anyone seen sf alpha the movie..

[Roll]

<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>DON'T POST IN HERE ANYMORE!!!!</span>

[Nantuko Joe]

Second of all, QUIT POSTING, DAMNIT!
DON'T POST IN HERE ANYMORE!!!!

Shut the hell up. Who the hell are you to dictate whether or not ppl can post in here. It's a a valid topic, and therefore, we are allowed to continue to post here. If you don't want to see ppl post here anymore, then don't enter the topic. Either go along with the topic or shut the hell up

First of all, if you read the rules, it would state that we aren't talking about DBZ games, but the manga's. Plus, it's a GROUND battle! No aerial attacks! And you're over-estimating them

ACTUALLY...Tarkan simply set down the rule that we couldn't refer to anything CONTRADICTING THE MANGA. Since every last one of the games contain no-one but ppl that are in the manga, the games are still valid debate material. But please, if you insist on following the rules about Ground Battle, lemme see...

SF characters need to build up their power before using a super move. Just like in the SF games, you've gotta fill up your super bar or whatever just to use a single Shinkuu Hadoken. Now, look at DBZ. They don't need to power up or anything to use a good attack. All Vegeta has to do is put his hand on a 90 degree angle to his wrist, and BAM! Instant Biku Bang Attack! All Gohan has to do is put his hands over his head, form a ball, and throw it, and BAM! Instant Masenko. Furiza just has to point in the direction of someone and squeeze, and BAM! Instant death (at least to a weakling like Kuririn). Hell, there's even a quick version of the Kamehameha. Plus, have you seen the DBZ characters fight? They're a blur. And according to Tarkan, SSJ3 Goku and SSJ3 Gotenks can move faster than the speed of light. Let's see a SF character do that.

[SSJKarma]

they have both their advantage if you go into fighting games !
in fighting games, there is no INSTANT MOVES. as they take energy to make them, all fighting game i saw needed them to build up their strenght with the BOOST buttons. except for Dragonball Z: Hyper Dimension on snes, just like any sf game they need to build their power. i say don't compare games as they are too similar and they downgraded a little the chars. i mean that i don't see vegeta doing what he does in the manga !

as for seeing only blurs in DBZ when you see SF chars doing all their moves ! i think DBZ has better fighting scene as they are fast and furious !

in the manga you see vegetto getting hit by buu at three times then vegetto is saying something like can you do better... then buu absorb it ! sorry but those scene has taken 3 episodes in the serie and where far more than that... i just think The manga cannot be used to make us know the real strenght of the chars in DBZ.

but DBZ ownz SF by far as they use different kind of energy !
DBZ us KI to enhance their power all over the place !
SF just use that power to throw out hadokens as there fighting much more with their fists and kicks without any kind of energy enhancement !

KI = life force of a characters if its reach 0 then the chars die !

DBZ they are able to increase that enegy and always use it in different battle !
SF they cannot increse it, they use BRUTE FOCE !

they have both their style but definitely DBZ ownz SF !

[Nantuko Joe]

in fighting games, there is no INSTANT MOVES. as they take energy to make them, all fighting game i saw needed them to build up their strenght with the BOOST buttons. except for Dragonball Z: Hyper Dimension on snes, just like any sf game they need to build their power. i say don't compare games as they are too similar and they downgraded a little the chars. i mean that i don't see vegeta doing what he does in the manga !

I haven't played any of the DBZ games, so I don't know about charging up and doing supers. I was using the anime show as reference. Now, if SF was made into a cartoon (it may have been done already, I'm not sure), I'm pretty sure Ryu wouldn't be able to crank out a Shinkuu Hadoken at the same rate Goku can crank out a Kamehameha.

KI = life force of a characters if its reach 0 then the chars die !

Not true (plus, the way you say it you make it seem like a video game). The fighter's ki (or chi) simply measures how much "spiritual power", if you may, they possess and can use. However, if their ki reaches 0, they don't die, they just get mad-ass weak and can't do #### (think Goku after he got his body back from Ginyu. He could barely reach the toad to throw in front of Ginyu).

[gotenks007]

i can move faster than light! i kick arse baby!!!

and to be on topic, DBZ wood kill SF. I doubt that Ryu could even beat Chouzu. If Chouzu was losing, he wood Self Destruct. And Ryu or even Akuma wouldnt be able to take it. or at least i dont think they wood. Either way, both would give each other a run for there money.

quit posting here ppl :angryfire:

[gotenks007]

dum arse... you have no control over that...

[Nantuko Joe]

No, he does not. And btw, gotenks, you're giving DBZ too much credit. There's no way Chaotzu can beat Ryu. Chaotzu couldn't even beat Nappa, and he only had a power of 4,000. However, I'm pretty sure the only two human DBZ warriors that could give SF a run for their money are Kuririn and Tenshinhan. As for Piccolo and the Saiya-jins, no contest.

[princevegetam]

man, the ppl who are with SF should know more about martial arts before talking. it seems like 75% of you don't know a thing about how KI(CHI) works.

[Gotenks13]

we all know that Chaotzu probably had a power level of 300,000 by the Buu saga. Thats pretty darn strong. Ryu would be no match to a power level that high. I say that because everyone else is in the millions, and I doubt that even Chaotzu would be so far behind them. If Capcom were to give SF characters power levels, they would probably be around 2,000-3,000. Chaotzu wouldn't be any match to them then, but later on, he got pretty strong. He would only be able to beat Nappa and Raditz and Frreeza's henchmen, but not Freeza.

[mysticvegetto]

the peaple that said streetfighter is stuped because dbz has biger beams example when goku does his kamehameha agaisnt ryus azuken goku could make his kamehameha wave bigger and stronger because he could turn any super saiyan form but its almost the same because when ryu does his special its almost like a kamehameha but like krillen and yamcha and anywase i say dbz and the have diffrentt beams and they could make them stronger and get stronger make them bigger so the peaple who said sf are uterlly dumb and stuped duh!!!

[pip99]

sf dbz sucks c*ck...

[Dan Hibiki]

we all know that Chaotzu probably had a power level of 300,000 by the Buu saga.
No, he wouldn't. Chaotzu essentially quit training after he realized how little a chance he had in the major fights, much like how Yamucha and Kullilin quit.

[Nantuko Joe]

we all know that Chaotzu probably had a power level of 300,000 by the Buu saga. Thats pretty darn strong. Ryu would be no match to a power level that high. I say that because everyone else is in the millions, and I doubt that even Chaotzu would be so far behind them. If Capcom were to give SF characters power levels, they would probably be around 2,000-3,000. Chaotzu wouldn't be any match to them then, but later on, he got pretty strong. He would only be able to beat Nappa and Raditz and Frreeza's henchmen, but not Freeza.

Theres no way in hell Chaotzu got anywhere near that high. His power before he self-destructed against Nappa was less than 2,000. Sure, he got a slight power-up from the North Kaio-sama's training, but that prolly would have gotten him to around 15,000 to 20,000 at most. After they got wished back, the only ppl who continued to train was Piccolo and Tenshinhan. Then, after the Buu saga, the only Z fighter who continued to train was Piccolo. Therefore, I'd peg Chaotzu's max power level in the series at around 17,000.

the peaple that said streetfighter is stuped because dbz has biger beams example when goku does his kamehameha agaisnt ryus azuken goku could make his kamehameha wave bigger and stronger because he could turn any super saiyan form but its almost the same because when ryu does his special its almost like a kamehameha but like krillen and yamcha and anywase i say dbz and the have diffrentt beams and they could make them stronger and get stronger make them bigger so the peaple who said sf are uterlly dumb and stuped duh!!!

Huh?

sf dbz sucks c*ck...

Whatever man. Unless you can give a real answer supported by real claims, please don't waste our time




And this is for all the ppl who want us to stop posting here. I IMd TarkanX on the Mallarky.net forum and asked him what he thought we should do. THis is the convo:[/color]

You remember that now 29-page monster topic about DB versus SF you started? Well, some ppl (wrestlemania, princevegetam, roll) want everyone to stop posting there, something like they want that to be a memorial to you. They're acting like your dead or something. I told them that as long as we have the ability to debate the topic, we will continue to do so.

What do you think? Do you think ppl should keep debating the topic, or cease posting there?

That is what I asked him. This is his reply

I don't care, I bet the forum is spammed anyways, you can post in the topic, I don't own the topic, I can't close it, so you can post in it...

See taht? SO all of yous who want us to stop posting can stop pretending Tarkan is dead and allow the rest of us to continue to post here until the debate is finished.

[princevegetam]

:hmmm: no one thinks tarkan is dead. it's just that this topic is going no where. nobody is hardly debating and the only ppl who usually post in here are ##### that give one sentence explanations like "oh yeah! dbz rules sf sucks ####!!!" and you(nankuto joe or dan) come along and totally destroy their arguement. so there really isn't any point anymore.

[Roll]

I give up...... I don't have enough patience or asprin to argue with you people.

[mysticvegetto]

you suck joe

[Nantuko Joe]

nankuto joe or dan) come along and totally destroy their arguement. so there really isn't any point anymore

If they're only saying "sf dbz sux c*ck..." or "bEcUz gOkU cAn dEsTrOz Da UnIvErSe", then there's really not much of an arguement in the first place

I give up...... I don't have enough patience or asprin to argue with you people.

good. maybe now you'll shut up

you suck joe

How so?

[princevegetam]

you suck joe
this is exactly the kind of useless spam i'm trying to point out here, :angry: how stupid can you get?

[SBYRD5]

Actually how would that Black guy(Literally black not the race black)Mr.Popo stand up to the powers of the Street fighters.

Ok, some of you right now are wondering what the hell am I talking about Mr.Popo is extremely weak. Wrong!!

During the Majin Buu Saga I notice that Mr.Popo lasted for a while longer in a fight with a super saiyan then I thought he would.

Don't you recall that fight...when Trunks(Not future Trunks) and Goten fought Mr.Popo as super saiyans to attemp to escape Kame's lookout. I thought Mr.Popo would've been K.O. in one hit.

If that truly is how strong Mr.Popo is why didn't he fight Vegeta,and Nappa when they first arrived on Earth during the first season of Dragonballz.Also if my theory about Mr.Popo is correct he could also defeat the Street Fighters.That is because "No Street Fighter is a match for any super saiyan or Piccolo=Quote by Joe.If Mr.Popo can survive a super saiyans attack could he couldn't he survive a Street Fighter's assualt?

(Note:Perhaps Mr.Popo had become stronger during the Majin Buu Saga?)

[mysticvegetto]

eat #### you suck eat #### joe

[princevegetam]

:hmmm:

[SBYRD5]

Someone answer my post.... :(

[Roll]

[quote:post_uid8="Nantuko Joe"][color=green:post_uid8]good. maybe now you'll shut up[/color:post_uid8][/quote:post_uid8]
You should talk.

[mysticvegetto]

ILL PROTEC FROM JOE YOU ROLL *DOES KAMEHAMEHA ON JOE BOOMM BLOOOD FLYS ALL OVER I USED ALL MY ENERGY I DIEAND FALL TO THE GROUND*THAN SOME ONE WISHES ME BACK WITH THE DRAGON BALLS I COME A LIVE I SAVE ROLL DONE

[Dan Hibiki]

:angry: Such useless spam.

Gee, well I'm sorry if Joe and I are too good at debating with you people. You can't take losing a debate through logic so you are flaming us. Simply put, "Go to Hell."

I'm not debating with you sore losers anymore.

you suck joe
this is exactly the kind of useless spam i'm trying to point out here, :angry: how stupid can you get?
ya and loook at your last post ..100% spam ..LOL



dan is right...there is no point of debating with losers ..

[princevegetam]

ILL PROTEC FROM JOE YOU ROLL *DOES KAMEHAMEHA ON JOE BOOMM BLOOOD FLYS ALL OVER I USED ALL MY ENERGY I DIEAND FALL TO THE GROUND*THAN SOME ONE WISHES ME BACK WITH THE DRAGON BALLS I COME A LIVE I SAVE ROLL DONE
GOOD GOD YOU BASTARD!! how much spam and n00bishness do you have in that empty head of yours?

[(SENT)DARKSIDE]

I SAY STREET FIGHTER CAUSE OF RYU, KEN, CHUN LI, AKUMA, GUILE, SAKURA, AND CAMMY. ITS JUST MY OPION THOUGH. ???

[Nantuko Joe]

SBYRD5 Posted on Oct. 06 2002,17:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually how would that Black guy(Literally black not the race black)Mr.Popo stand up to the powers of the Street fighters.

Ok, some of you right now are wondering what the hell am I talking about Mr.Popo is extremely weak. Wrong!!

During the Majin Buu Saga I notice that Mr.Popo lasted for a while longer in a fight with a super saiyan then I thought he would.

Don't you recall that fight...when Trunks(Not future Trunks) and Goten fought Mr.Popo as super saiyans to attemp to escape Kame's lookout. I thought Mr.Popo would've been K.O. in one hit.

If that truly is how strong Mr.Popo is why didn't he fight Vegeta,and Nappa when they first arrived on Earth during the first season of Dragonballz.Also if my theory about Mr.Popo is correct he could also defeat the Street Fighters.That is because "No Street Fighter is a match for any super saiyan or Piccolo=Quote by Joe.If Mr.Popo can survive a super saiyans attack could he couldn't he survive a Street Fighter's assualt?

(Note:Perhaps Mr.Popo had become stronger during the Majin Buu Saga?)

Nice point, SBYRD5. However, one of the reasons Mr. Popo was able to fend off Goten and Trunks in training is because he is immortal, he cannot die. So he isn't that strong at all physically, but i guess due to his immortality he can block some attacks. And according to my guesses, SSJGoten and SSJTrunks were prolly even in power with King Kold. But good point. That's the kind of good debating I'm looking for in this topic.

[ssj2trunks52]

great point!:) thats what I was gunna say nantuko

[Nantuko Joe]

I SAY STREET FIGHTER CAUSE OF RYU, KEN, CHUN LI, AKUMA, GUILE, SAKURA, AND CAMMY. ITS JUST MY OPION THOUGH. ???
In the future, could you plz give reasons why you think SF would win? That's the kind of stuff me and Dan hate trying to deal with. If you supported your claim, it would make for a much better debate.

[Dan Hibiki]

I THNK THAT STRET FATER IZ DA BEZT CUZ THEY GOT DA HADOKEN THAT IZ SO CUL.

Sorry if this offends anybody, but for the love of God USE PROPER CAPITALIZATION! That, and check your spelling at www.dictionary.com, and please present an actual argument!

[wilsontieu]

Of course Dragon Ball Z will beat street fighters! Because, the Z fighters can destroy planets 1 by 1! And street fighters are like little :alien: aliens :alien: to the Z fighters! :alien:

[wilsontieu]

Of course DBZ is stronger. At least its my guess. :D I think street fighters is good too, no offense though. :p

[wilsontieu]

Tell me how to get a picture above your name, please?
Im a ######, please tell me?

[wilsontieu]

May you please tell me how to make a picture above your name? Im new around here. please tell me. :(

[Troy88]

Why do some of you keep referring to the Japanese names of DBZ characters? We aren't all DBZ gurus like you, ya know, so quit showing off. Anyways...

I am biased towards Street Fighter, and I STILL say DBZ would win. Not because I like the characters/story better (and I don't), but just because the DBZ characters are so ridiculously strong. In DBZ, for example, characters like Cell can be attacked by an entire army, shot with missiles, and not even get scratched. Do you think Ryu could do that? Of course not. Street Fighter characters can't fly, they can't move as fast as DBZ characters, and they aren't as powerful as DBZ characters. Frieza could blow up entire planets. Do you think Guile could do that? Is there even anything to debate, really? Anyone that's watched DBZ for any length of time would understand that SF characters don't even stand a chance.




Now, having said all that, I leave you with the typical DBZ battle (once you've seen one, you've seen them all)...

Krillin: Oh, no! A new foe, bent on world domination, who's even more powerful than the last one has appeared! Uwa! Uwa! Uwa! (whining in fear :D )

Piccolo: We had better train for 10 episodes straight, while this new foe destroys the planet!

Goku: Don't worry, we can just use the hyperbolic time chamber!

10 episodes later...

*Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan step out of the hyperbolic time chamber*

Bulma: Wow, you guys glow even brighter than before!

Piccolo: This... power... is unlike anything I've ever felt!

Krillin: Uwa! Uwa! Uwa!

Gohan: With our powers combined, this new foe bent on world domination doesn't even stand a chance!

Vegeta: Powers combined? You pathetic weakling. I will destroy this N.F.B.O.W.D. with my bare hands! I don't need your help, stupid boy.

*Vegeta, Goku, and Gohan fly to the scene, where our N.F.B.O.W.D. is destroying some city*

N.F.B.O.W.D.: Who are you guys?

Vegeta: I am the Prince of all Saiya-Jins, once again! I've come to destroy you. Heh, heh, heh.

N.F.B.O.W.D.: Destroy me? Mwahahahaha! I'd like to see you try, foolish creature.

*Vegeta and our N.F.B.O.W.D. have a staring contest for an entire episode, while the veiwers are subjected to pointless dialogue from King Kai, Master Roshi, Piccolo, Krillin, and others that have nothing to do with the battle, then Vegeta proceeds to kick his ass*

Piccolo: Amazing. Vegeta's moves look exactly the same as they did during the last fight with the former N.F.B.O.W.D., and yet he's kicking his ass! I guess those 10 episodes of training paid off!

King Kai: Why doesn't Vegeta finish him? He's had several opportunities over the course of the last two episodes!

N.F.B.O.W.D.: Argh! It's not fair! I'm not at full power yet!

Vegeta: You're pathetic. I'll bet even Krillin could beat you. Heh, heh, heh.

N.F.B.O.W.D.: You mock me! You wouldn't be saying that if I was at full power! Let me absorb Gohan, and you'll see!

Vegeta: Go on and absorb him then, maybe then I'll have a decent challenge.

Gohan: Arrrrrrrrgh!

King Kai: Oh NO!!!!! Gohan has been absorbed!

Krillin: Uwa! Uwa!

Piccolo: Oh no! This power... is unlike anything I've ever felt before!

Vegeta: Finally. Some decent competition. Heh, heh.

*N.F.B.O.W.D. practices some cheasy punches and kicks in the air, while Vegeta runs his mouth about how great he is*

Vegeta: Now let's just see what you can do.

N.F.B.O.W.D.: Gladly (with a huge, cheesy grin).

*Vegeta gets his ass kicked*

King Kai: Dammit, Vegeta pulls this sh!t every time! He could have finished him 2 episodes ago!

Vegeta: How could this be? I am the Prince of all Saiya-Jins!

N.F.B.O.W.D.: You are nothing.

*Vegeta goes berserk and throws countless fireballs at our N.F.B.O.W.D.*

Vegeta: (panting) Finally, it's over.

*The smoke from the fireballs clears, and our N.F.B.O.W.D. stands there, without a scratch*

Vegeta: ARRRGH!

N.F.B.O.W.D.: Hey, what's that over there?

Vegeta: What? (turning his head)

King Kai: Oh NO!!!!! Vegeta is being absorbed!

Vegeta: ARRGH!

*3 minutes later*

Piccolo: This... new power... is unlike anything I've ever felt before!

Krillin: Uwa! Uwa!

Goku: Well, it looks like it's just you and me.

N.F.B.O.W.D.: You cannot defeat me. Your powers are no match for mine!

Goku: Time to take it to the next level.

*Goku now reveals that he had the ability to go to SSJ3 the whole time*

Piccolo: Goku's... power level... is unlike anything I've ever felt before!

Krillin: Uwa! Uwa!

Yamcha: Goku sure has gotten strong! I wouldn't mind sparring with him again, someday...

*N.F.B.O.W.D. and Goku have a staring contest for the rest of the episode, while the viewers are subjected to pointless dialogue from King Kai, Master Rochi, etc.*

Narrator: Will Goku be able to defeat our N.F.B.O.W.D. with his new abilty? Stay tuned, for the next exciting episode of Dragon Ball Z!

:p

[princevegetam]

it only sounds gay and stupid like that cause funimation censored it and screwed up the whole thing. in the japanese version, it is way better.

i like the english version :p

[SBYRD5]

Yea in that version vegeta sounds....forget it.

[TarkanX]

I'll debate this later, but there is a lot of cleaning up to do....

[PARADISE-X]

Did i miss sumthing ...cause u said u will never come back

[TarkanX]

Did i miss sumthing ...cause u said u will never come back
I didn't say I wasn't coming back, I just said I wouldn't post for a long time... but since Mastaq told me about the game going into a suspended animation, I had to help the game that I spent over one year of my life on.

Besides, I tried exploring life, but the people are sad(and I don't mean the frowning way).

[mastaq]

As always good point Troy. How could a SF even contend with a saiya-jin? Especially when they are so flipin fast? MAYBE Evil Ryu could do decent damage to them. But other than that I agree with Troy. On second thought ... how would Bison fare against SSJ3 Gotenks? ???

[Nantuko Joe]

it only sounds gay and stupid like that cause funimation censored it and screwed up the whole thing. in the japanese version, it is way better.

Very true. The Japanese version has the ACTUAL character names and attack names, unlike the gay-ass English version.

i like the english version

The english version is the gay-ass watered-down DBZ. In case you dont' watch the Japanese versions, lemme give you some reasons why the english version sucks. First off, they change the names of various characters and attacks. Heres a few examples:

Original Japanese Name Gay English Name
Shunkan Idou Instant Transmission
Genki Dama Spirit Bomb
Room of Spirit and Time Hyperbolic Time Chamber
Super Saiya-jin 2 Ascended Saiya-jin
Hell Home For Infinite Losers
Heaven Other World
The Afterlife The Next Dimension
Mr. Sataan Hercule
Gyuu Mao Ox King
North Kaio-sama King Kai
Dai Kaio-sama Grand Kai
East Kaioshin Supreme Kai
Rou Dai Kaioshin the "other" Supreme Kai
Makankosappo Special Beam Cannon
Kienzan Destructo-Disk
Taiyoken Solar Flare
Muten Roshi/Kamesennin Master Roshi
Tenshinhan Tien
Buruma Bulma

Second off: they alter what the characters say. For example:

Japanese Version
After the Rou Dai Kaioshin is freed from the Zet Sword, Goku tries to bribe him with Porno magazines. That failing, he says he'll allow the Rou Dai Kaioshin to touch a girl's "tits and ass".

English Version
After the Rou Dai kaioshin is freed from the Z Sword, Goku tries to bribe him with swimsuit magazines. That failing, he offers the Rou Dai Kaioshin a date with Bulma.

see the difference?

[SBYRD5]

SBYRD5 Posted on Oct. 06 2002,17:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually how would that Black guy(Literally black not the race black)Mr.Popo stand up to the powers of the Street fighters.

Ok, some of you right now are wondering what the hell am I talking about Mr.Popo is extremely weak. Wrong!!

During the Majin Buu Saga I notice that Mr.Popo lasted for a while longer in a fight with a super saiyan then I thought he would.

Don't you recall that fight...when Trunks(Not future Trunks) and Goten fought Mr.Popo as super saiyans to attemp to escape Kame's lookout. I thought Mr.Popo would've been K.O. in one hit.

If that truly is how strong Mr.Popo is why didn't he fight Vegeta,and Nappa when they first arrived on Earth during the first season of Dragonballz.Also if my theory about Mr.Popo is correct he could also defeat the Street Fighters.That is because "No Street Fighter is a match for any super saiyan or Piccolo=Quote by Joe.If Mr.Popo can survive a super saiyans attack could he couldn't he survive a Street Fighter's assualt?

(Note:Perhaps Mr.Popo had become stronger during the Majin Buu Saga?)

Nice point, SBYRD5. However, one of the reasons Mr. Popo was able to fend off Goten and Trunks in training is because he is immortal, he cannot die. So he isn't that strong at all physically, but i guess due to his immortality he can block some attacks. And according to my guesses, SSJGoten and SSJTrunks were prolly even in power with King Kold. But good point. That's the kind of good debating I'm looking for in this topic.
Yes, that would explain a good bit,but remeber Garlic Jr. He was immortal,but piccolo kicked him around like he was nothing,and piccolo wasn't even fused with Kame at that time.

Now if SSJTrunks was infact stronger than SSJGoten.(At that time).Also the fact that there SSJ how could Mr.Popo even stand up to there power.He must have more power than they actually showed in the series by him being immortal he had plenty of time to perfect arts of fighting....,or it was a fluke by the creator.

I think it was a fluke by the creator.Now Mr.Popo was to much of a coward when Nappa and Prince Vegeta arrived at earth.Now we clearly stated that all the SSJ poeple and Piccolo could defeat the Street Fighters hands down.Now Piccolo is special he is only a little stronger than the powers of a level 1 SSJ Fighter because of his fusion with Kame.

Ok, Piccolo was evenly matched Android 17.Now 17 and 18 are about the same in power.Now robots stay at the same level of oppration unless the robot rusts or something else enterferres.As you noticed SSJTrunks(Not future Trunks) and SSJGoten fought Android 18 in the Adult Tournament...secertly. ;)

With both the boys together against 18...they seemed evenly matched.Now to the point of this post.After all of that said.The boys were at the level of SSJ 1.I think they were stronger than King Cold.

Now remeber Future Trunks only hit King Cold one time with his hands and crippled him.(Note:he was at level one).Now SSJTrunks and SSJgotens should've had the power in there kicks and punches to knock Mr.Popo out of Kames lookout.

Now you can clearly see that ome point in time Mr.Popo must of went through some training.Also the fact that he's immortal he would wipe the floor with the Street Fighters.OK i'm not going to post here anymore.

[Nas]

Well,if your into dbz go to this forum

http://lordgrobyc.hyperboards2.com/index.cgi

[SBYRD5]

Nas you goof I'm a member there.

[Nantuko Joe]

Yes, that would explain a good bit,but remeber Garlic Jr. He was immortal,but piccolo kicked him around like he was nothing,and piccolo wasn't even fused with Kame at that time.


That never happened in the manga, therefore, it doesn't count. Those were only episodes. Toriyama never wrote the Garlic Jr. Saga, they were created by TOEI animation. And since Tarkan stated that we can't refer to anything that contradicts the manga, that claim goes unsupported

Now if SSJTrunks was infact stronger than SSJGoten.(At that time).Also the fact that there SSJ how could Mr.Popo even stand up to there power.He must have more power than they actually showed in the series by him being immortal he had plenty of time to perfect arts of fighting....,or it was a fluke by the creator.


Because your Garlic Jr. statement is invalid, the immortality that Popo possesses must somehow give him enormous defensive capabilities. That's the only explanation

I think it was a fluke by the creator.Now Mr.Popo was to much of a coward when Nappa and Prince Vegeta arrived at earth.Now we clearly stated that all the SSJ poeple and Piccolo could defeat the Street Fighters hands down.Now Piccolo is special he is only a little stronger than the powers of a level 1 SSJ Fighter because of his fusion with Kame.


Toriyama made no flukes. Popo didn't participate in the battle with Nappa and Vegeta because of Kame-sama's death when Piccolo died. Kame asked Popo to stay and watch over earth in his absence. Therefore, he stayed at Kame's palace.

And yes, Piccolo (fused with Kame-sama) was stronger than Vegeta before Vegeta entered the Room of Spirit and Time. Therefore, that statement is valid. :D

Ok, Piccolo was evenly matched Android 17.Now 17 and 18 are about the same in power.Now robots stay at the same level of oppration unless the robot rusts or something else enterferres.As you noticed SSJTrunks(Not future Trunks) and SSJGoten fought Android 18 in the Adult Tournament...secertly.

Yes, Piccolo was even with Android #17. However, 17 and 18 were NOT about the same in power, it was stated that 17 was much stronger than 18. Therefore, had Piccolo taken on 18 before 17, 18 prolly would have been killed and Cell never would have gone perfect.

However, 18's power level did indeed rise. When Kuririn wished 18 back to life, he wished that she wasn't an android anymore. Because she was no longer an android, her power level max could have raised, and therefore would account for her holding up against Goten and Trunks

The boys were at the level of SSJ 1.I think they were stronger than King Cold.

Now remeber Future Trunks only hit King Cold one time with his hands and crippled him.(Note:he was at level one).Now SSJTrunks and SSJgotens should've had the power in there kicks and punches to knock Mr.Popo out of Kames lookout.


Because Toriyama didn't give out Kold's power level, all levels regarding Kold are subject to guesses. According to my guesses, SSJ Trunks was slightly stronger than Kold, and SSJ Goten was prolly around even to Kold. After all, Goku DID state that because Trunks was a year older than Goten, he prolly was stronger.

But like I said before: since the Garlic Jr. statement is invalid, the only explanation for Popo's huge defensive abilities must be the type of immortality he has obtained.

I guess that in the DBZ universe, there are three types of immortality. The first type is normal immortality (ie. Muten Roshi), in the fact that although he can never die, he is pretty weak. The second type (if you insist on using Garlic Jr.) would be Garlic Jr.'s type of immortality. Not only is he immortal, but he has excellent offensive capabilities, with lesser defensive capabilities. Then i guess there's Popo's type of immortality, with extremely weak offensive capabilities but excellent defensive capabilities.

[TarkanX]

Big Deal, sure Goku or Piccolo or anyone else can blow up pretty much anything, but my vote goes to Street Fighter, because even know Goku and the Z fighters are strong, when E. Honda sits on em, theres no getting up =)


Then the Z warriors listed will then power up blowing E Honda away.


nice poem roll but back to the topic *rubs his chin* i have to say DBZ why first of goku,gohan,vegeta,trunks,gotens or just gotrenks have higher speed stregnth and ki power than ryu,ken akuma,chunli etc... If goku goes ss3 or trunks and gotens fuse together and turn ss3 and Mystic gohan who is so powerful he barley goes in ss mode. For he does not need it.
Ryu and ken would have a hard time taking down a 9 and 10 year old and Akuma V.S Vegeta *rubs his chin again* well that would would be a macth that last longer then chunli vs andirod 18. Also uub could wipe them out for those who do not know who the hell is uub he is magin kid buu the pink guy who has been reborn as a black child and is trianed under goku. And for those who do not know what the hell about trunks and gotenks fusing and turing ss3 and mystic gohan then go to www.dragonballz.com check the T.V show time to see where it comes on at your time and look at the new episodes of DBZ finshing the rest of the buu saga.

i kN0w dAt iS s0 k001 11111


ok then humans only:) how about videl? she is human yet she can fly and use KI attacks:) and she would beat down all of the street fighters

The weakest Street Fighter can beat her.

"I fly, but I waste all my energy within a short time"

"I can barely manipulate ki, but I faint after that"


The times where the fighting is simply a blur only happens sometimes. Most of the time,you can actually see the punches, kicks, and energy blasts. And at least DBZ has a stable storyline. I don't follow SF, but from what I heard, the SF storyline is fluid, and it changes all the time. WHATS UP WITH THAT? Plus, the DBZ characters' raw power far suprasses that of the SF characters. Name one SF character that has the power to blow up a planet without really trying.


Actually... SF storyline is better than DB"Z". After Freiza was beaten by Goku, that's where it all sucked. EVeryone turned SSJ, next thing you know, Chaotzu turns SSJ.

Besides Gill can detsroy the planet without really trying, and the SFers dont need to destroy planets to beat the DB"Z" characters



man dbz wins no prob they can destroy a planet with one ki blast but here is a good question tekken vs street fighter I have proven that snk is owned by street fighter:)cept for MAI she is cool..........

The Tekken fighters are just people with highly trained skills.

And actually SNK beats Capcom if you count Orochi, since only the people who weild the powers of the crimson flames can hurt Orochi. Other than that, Capcom beats SNK storywise.


SF characters need to build up their power before using a super move. Just like in the SF games, you've gotta fill up your super bar or whatever just to use a single Shinkuu Hadoken. Now, look at DBZ. They don't need to power up or anything to use a good attack. All Vegeta has to do is put his hand on a 90 degree angle to his wrist, and BAM! Instant Biku Bang Attack! All Gohan has to do is put his hands over his head, form a ball, and throw it, and BAM! Instant Masenko. Furiza just has to point in the direction of someone and squeeze, and BAM! Instant death (at least to a weakling like Kuririn). Hell, there's even a quick version of the Kamehameha. Plus, have you seen the DBZ characters fight? They're a blur. And according to Tarkan, SSJ3 Goku and SSJ3 Gotenks can move faster than the speed of light. Let's see a SF character do that.

That is game play wise, some SFers arent even at their best in the game... Akuma, Oro, Gill, Urien, and some others. And many times, or at least if the character is really powerful, comparably close to them, or above them, DB"Z" characters power up for a moment, and blast them.

I didn't say SSJ3 Goku moves faster than the speed of light, though he's close to it.



DBZ they are able to increase that enegy and always use it in different battle !
SF they cannot increse it, they use BRUTE FOCE !

SF can increase ki too. Look at Akuma, and Oro, and Gill, and many others.


Not true (plus, the way you say it you make it seem like a video game). The fighter's ki (or chi) simply measures how much "spiritual power", if you may, they possess and can use. However, if their ki reaches 0, they don't die, they just get mad-ass weak and can't do #### (think Goku after he got his body back from Ginyu. He could barely reach the toad to throw in front of Ginyu

If their ki reaches 0, then they die, Goku's PL was above 1 which is for sure, he was just badly injured.


and to be on topic, DBZ wood kill SF. I doubt that Ryu could even beat Chouzu. If Chouzu was losing, he wood Self Destruct. And Ryu or even Akuma wouldnt be able to take it. or at least i dont think they wood. Either way, both would give each other a run for there money.

Why does everyone bring up Ryu losing to a character, when everyone should know Ryu is no where near the strongest....

That would be pretty dumb to self destruct against someone, even what he did against Nappa was dumb. Besides Ryu would just Denjin-Hadouken Chaotzu to stun him, then when its almost going to explode, Ryu runs away.


No, he does not. And btw, gotenks, you're giving DBZ too much credit. There's no way Chaotzu can beat Ryu. Chaotzu couldn't even beat Nappa, and he only had a power of 4,000. However, I'm pretty sure the only two human DBZ warriors that could give SF a run for their money are Kuririn and Tenshinhan. As for Piccolo and the Saiya-jins, no contest.

Nappa's PL wasn't given, though his max was near 7,500(which is what most experts put it at.)

Krillin beats Ryu, Taiyoken(blind eye attack), then Kienzan, but he never does it since it'll ruin the manga. Tenshinhan blasts Ryu with his Kikohou, Ryu's defense is as good as a buff(not VERY buff) martial artist. Even Yamucha can beat Ryu. Not sure abotu CHaotzu, he has bad defense, and he isnt fast.


we all know that Chaotzu probably had a power level of 300,000 by the Buu saga. Thats pretty darn strong. Ryu would be no match to a power level that high. I say that because everyone else is in the millions, and I doubt that even Chaotzu would be so far behind them. If Capcom were to give SF characters power levels, they would probably be around 2,000-3,000. Chaotzu wouldn't be any match to them then, but later on, he got pretty strong. He would only be able to beat Nappa and Raditz and Frreeza's henchmen, but not Freeza.

I doubt Chaotzu ever passes 10,000, and the humans don't pass 100,000 IMO, except maybe for Krillin. And what do you mean by if Capcom gave PL's to SF, they would be 2000-3000? Gill crushes anyone with a walking stick.


the peaple that said streetfighter is stuped because dbz has biger beams example when goku does his kamehameha agaisnt ryus azuken goku could make his kamehameha wave bigger and stronger because he could turn any super saiyan form but its almost the same because when ryu does his special its almost like a kamehameha but like krillen and yamcha and anywase i say dbz and the have diffrentt beams and they could make them stronger and get stronger make them bigger so the peaple who said sf are uterlly dumb and stuped duh!!!

take an english course.


Theres no way in hell Chaotzu got anywhere near that high. His power before he self-destructed against Nappa was less than 2,000. Sure, he got a slight power-up from the North Kaio-sama's training, but that prolly would have gotten him to around 15,000 to 20,000 at most. After they got wished back, the only ppl who continued to train was Piccolo and Tenshinhan. Then, after the Buu saga, the only Z fighter who continued to train was Piccolo. Therefore, I'd peg Chaotzu's max power level in the series at around 17,000.

Chaotzu never passes 10,000 in general.


Actually how would that Black guy(Literally black not the race black)Mr.Popo stand up to the powers of the Street fighters.

He'd lose against the top tiers easily, don't know about the rest of the tiers(not including characters like Evil Ryu, Urien, Dhalsim, Rose, etc..)


During the Majin Buu Saga I notice that Mr.Popo lasted for a while longer in a fight with a super saiyan then I thought he would.

Don't you recall that fight...when Trunks(Not future Trunks) and Goten fought Mr.Popo as super saiyans to attemp to escape Kame's lookout. I thought Mr.Popo would've been K.O. in one hit.


Never happened in the manga.


Note:Perhaps Mr.Popo had become stronger during the Majin Buu Saga?)

He never trains in the DB, and DB"Z" saga ever.


Nice point, SBYRD5. However, one of the reasons Mr. Popo was able to fend off Goten and Trunks in training is because he is immortal, he cannot die. So he isn't that strong at all physically, but i guess due to his immortality he can block some attacks. And according to my guesses, SSJGoten and SSJTrunks were prolly even in power with King Kold. But good point. That's the kind of good debating I'm looking for in this topic.


Mr. Popo against little SSJ kids is filler. And King Kold is weaker than Freiza's second form when he just transforms.

SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goten are almost even, and SSJ Trunks gave SSJ Vegeta a hard time, which SSJ Vegeta was strong as SSJ Goku in the Cell games, since Vegeta, and Goku reached the limit in power of SSJ, so the kids will dispatch of King Kold.


Troy88: well put, that is so true


However, 18's power level did indeed rise. When Kuririn wished 18 back to life, he wished that she wasn't an android anymore. Because she was no longer an android, her power level max could have raised, and therefore would account for her holding up against Goten and Trunks

He tried wishing that, but it didn't work, the he wished for the explosives to be removed in her body. She did give birth to Marron, but onyl because she has some biological parts in her, her PL though cannot rise.

[Tantum]

my god... please, please... STOP THIS TOPIC!!!

and tarkan... heh, dude.. you watch too much T.V. ???

[Nantuko Joe]

Besides Gill can detsroy the planet without really trying, and the SFers dont need to destroy planets to beat the DB"Z" characters

I'm merely using the power to destroy planets as a measure of their power. Most DBZ characters, SHOULD THEY WANT TO, could destroy a planet without even really trying. SF characters, on the other hand, prolly don't even have enough energy, SHOULD THEY WANT TO, to blow up North America

Nappa's PL wasn't given, though his max was near 7,500(which is what most experts put it at.)

I say that Nappa's pl was around 4,000. His (max) of 7,500 you put him at is a tad high. However, I could say that he could have powered up for his mouth beam he shot at Goku, and therefore had a pl of 7,500 while shooting hte beam. But not during fighting. Goku owned Nappa during the normal fight itself

I doubt Chaotzu ever passes 10,000, and the humans don't pass 100,000 IMO, except maybe for Krillin. And what do you mean by if Capcom gave PL's to SF, they would be 2000-3000? Gill crushes anyone with a walking stick.

Chaotzu prolly did pass 10,000 by the end of DBZ, due mainly in part to North Kaio's training (though he didn't get far past 10,000). And I'm pretty sure that even IF Kuririn was the strongest human, that Tenshinhan would be very close to Kuririn in pl. Hell, I even think that Tenshinhan would defeat Kuririn in a fight


During the Majin Buu Saga I notice that Mr.Popo lasted for a while longer in a fight with a super saiyan then I thought he would.

Don't you recall that fight...when Trunks(Not future Trunks) and Goten fought Mr.Popo as super saiyans to attemp to escape Kame's lookout. I thought Mr.Popo would've been K.O. in one hit.

Never happened in the manga.

Thanks for clarifying that for us. I was suspecting that it didn't happen in the manga, due to the unexplanation of Popo's power increase in the anime

And King Kold is weaker than Freiza's second form when he just transforms.

SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goten are almost even, and SSJ Trunks gave SSJ Vegeta a hard time, which SSJ Vegeta was strong as SSJ Goku in the Cell games, since Vegeta, and Goku reached the limit in power of SSJ, so the kids will dispatch of King Kold.

Tenshinhan stated that he felt Furiza's ki, then a ki even greater.

If you ask me, I'd peg SSJ Trunks at around 40,000,000, and SSJ Goten at around 37,000,000

He tried wishing that, but it didn't work, the he wished for the explosives to be removed in her body. She did give birth to Marron, but onyl because she has some biological parts in her, her PL though cannot rise.

Then how do you explain the fact that Android #18 successfully defended herself and held off both SSJ Trunks and SSJ Gotend during the Tenkaichi Budoukai?

[TarkanX]

I say that Nappa's pl was around 4,000. His (max) of 7,500 you put him at is a tad high. However, I could say that he could have powered up for his mouth beam he shot at Goku, and therefore had a pl of 7,500 while shooting hte beam. But not during fighting. Goku owned Nappa during the normal fight itself

It was never stated in the manga that Nappa's PL was 4,000, that's Daizenshuu, and Nappa didn't do a mouth beam. He was very close to 7,500 against Goku's max which is about 8,100. Even Vegeta said this would take days.


Chaotzu prolly did pass 10,000 by the end of DBZ, due mainly in part to North Kaio's training (though he didn't get far past 10,000). And I'm pretty sure that even IF Kuririn was the strongest human, that Tenshinhan would be very close to Kuririn in pl. Hell, I even think that Tenshinhan would defeat Kuririn in a fight

Let's see.. his PL was not too much over 1,000 when he came to the planet, he doesn't train in any specific motives(kaio-ken, Genki-dama), his PL doesn't get a high jump as comparably to the others.... If Goku got a 19x increase on Kaio's planet, Chaotzu should get much weaker, even though he spent more days. Kaio-sama didn't rigurously train them like he did to Goku, because he knew they weren't needed, I give him a 5x increase on average.

Not the Human debate again.... Krillin is stronger than tenshinhan at the end of DB"Z". Tenshinhan stopped training after Cell was detsroyed, he said he would never see them again.


Tenshinhan stated that he felt Furiza's ki, then a ki even greater.

If you ask me, I'd peg SSJ Trunks at around 40,000,000, and SSJ Goten at around 37,000,000

Tenshinhan never said that.

Even though those PL's are very low, they are too far apart % wise at least make SSJ Goten 39 million by your PL's.


Then how do you explain the fact that Android #18 successfully defended herself and held off both SSJ Trunks and SSJ Gotend during the Tenkaichi Budoukai?

She defended herself against regular Trunks, and Goten(and was considerably winning), when they turned SSJ, she threw a Kienzan because she knew who they were.


and tarkan... heh, dude.. you watch too much T.V

Basically the only thing on TV I watch is CNN, and sports, I read the Dragon Ball comics... I only watch it on TV to see what funimation or Toei did wrong.

[Nantuko Joe]

It was never stated in the manga that Nappa's PL was 4,000, that's Daizenshuu, and Nappa didn't do a mouth beam. He was very close to 7,500 against Goku's max which is about 8,100. Even Vegeta said this would take days.

Then the mouth beam must have been anime-only. All I know is that when Vegeta said Gohan was at 2,800, Nappa reacted surprised. ALMOST afraid that he could get that high.

Not the Human debate again.... Krillin is stronger than tenshinhan at the end of DB"Z". Tenshinhan stopped training after Cell was detsroyed, he said he would never see them again.

So did Kuririn. After the Cell Games, Kuririn stopped training.

Even though those PL's are very low, they are too far apart % wise at least make SSJ Goten 39 million by your PL's.

Well, since there were no stated PLs, and considering the fact that Android 18 held off both goten and trunks during the Tenkaichi Budoukai, I'd have to say that each of them prolly were over half as strong as her, with Trunks being stronger than Goten. What would YOU peg Goten and Trunks at?

I only watch it on TV to see what funimation or Toei did wrong

Same here. at least with the english version. the jap version is so much more accurate

[kingofhearts]

dbz would win for sure streetfighter doesnt even have a chance goku and all the other saiyans can move faster than the speed of light and make huge kame hame ha waves 100 times bigger that a hadouken they wouldnt even have to go super to destroy streetfighter. :D :p

[Nantuko Joe]

dbz would win for sure streetfighter doesnt even have a chance goku and all the other saiyans can move faster than the speed of light and make huge kame hame ha waves 100 times bigger that a hadouken they wouldnt even have to go super to destroy streetfighter. :D :p
I'm kinda going against what I've been debating about, but whatever...

Just to let you know about Tarkan's knowledge concerning your post:

--none of the characters can move faster than the speed of light. In the Buu Saga, SSJ3 Gotenks can move at about the speed of light, but not faster

--it's called a "Kamehameha", not a "Kame Hame Ha Wave". the "wave" part proves that you just watch the english version on cartoon network and don't know about the japanese version or the manga

--the fact that they wouldn't have to go Super Saiya-jin is true...for some of the SFers. However, Tarkan has made some extremely powerful points proving otherwise concerning some of the Street Fighters and their attacks.

Just be careful what you say, because Tarkan will rip you apart

[TarkanX]

So did Kuririn. After the Cell Games, Kuririn stopped training.

He trained for a little while during the 7 years, onyl for a little while, Krillin taught 18 the Kienzan attack.


Well, since there were no stated PLs, and considering the fact that Android 18 held off both goten and trunks during the Tenkaichi Budoukai, I'd have to say that each of them prolly were over half as strong as her, with Trunks being stronger than Goten. What would YOU peg Goten and Trunks at?

I haven't gave PL's for them yet, I'm having trouble giving a PL for Semi-Perfect Cell. If someone can get me info to how much Cell increased by when absorbing 17(going by how Goku was shocked, and how 16's rampage didnt face Cell), please tell me.


dbz would win for sure streetfighter doesnt even have a chance goku and all the other saiyans can move faster than the speed of light and make huge kame hame ha waves 100 times bigger that a hadouken they wouldnt even have to go super to destroy streetfighter.[/quote]

Like Joe said, I'll go easy on you, next time don't do this.

[SBYRD5]

I guess it's interesting to know this topic is still alive.

[Gotenks13]

Well, like I've said before, you can't count on the animation. Wehn you see it on tv, Radizt could move faster than light. I say that because of the blur and then the sudden appearance in a different spot. It took me a while to hear that no one could move faster than light until the Buu saga. Krillin/Kuririn should be able to handle almost any Street Fighter. I don't know as much about Street Fighter than the experts here, so I can't really tell you who Krillin/Kuririn can't beat. Make a list of characters who would win against a list of SFers. Like this:

Gotenks: Everyone.
Gohan: Everyone.
Goku: Everyone.
Krillin/Kuririn: Ryu, Ken, many others.

Something like that. Just make it more accurate.

[montalvo]

i think akuma or bison would probably stand a chance against kurillin

[raidus]

Dude, Ryu could own all the DBZ people, Ryu uses an attack thats like, 100x stronger than the spirit bomb Goku uses to fight Freza... Im pretty sure, that he could blow them up good:) and Ryu uses concentrated energy, its not all uber huge.

And if xmen were in teh fight, none of the dbz people would have a chance, only ryu... because Gambit can control all raw energies, so therefore all the DBZ peeps would die, and the Hadouken would be left standing.

[Nantuko Joe]

I haven't gave PL's for them yet, I'm having trouble giving a PL for Semi-Perfect Cell. If someone can get me info to how much Cell increased by when absorbing 17(going by how Goku was shocked, and how 16's rampage didnt face Cell), please tell me

I think it was more like Cell x .5 of Android 17's energy. But thats still prolly way off

raidus Posted on Oct. 11 2002,01:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dude, Ryu could own all the DBZ people, Ryu uses an attack thats like, 100x stronger than the spirit bomb Goku uses to fight Freza... Im pretty sure, that he could blow them up good:) and Ryu uses concentrated energy, its not all uber huge.

And if xmen were in teh fight, none of the dbz people would have a chance, only ryu... because Gambit can control all raw energies, so therefore all the DBZ peeps would die, and the Hadouken would be left standing.

First off, I don't understand why everyone thinks Ryu is the best SF. We've got ppl in here saying "ryu this" and "ryu that". Does Ryu have enough energy to be able to blow up a planet (if he wanted to)? I sincerely doubt that. If Ryu focused all his power into one attack, it may be enough to destroy Texas, but not a planet.

And X-Men mutant powers and Dragonball Z ki are two totally different things. The energy in X-Men are the energies produced by each person's specific mutation. The ki in Dragonball Z is a measure of a person's internal spiritual energy. When the Z Fighters shoot lazers, they're merely extensions of the user's own ki.

[kingofhearts]

can't goku teleport anyways anyway at the beginning of dbz Gokus brother the one with long hair dodged one of gokus fireball and Goku and Piccolo said that he moved faster than than the speed of light and they are now way beyond him in power so i would guess they move faster than the speed of light. :D


[img:post_uid6]http://members.tripod.com/duo241/HTMLobj-1140/aniGif.gif[/img:post_uid6]

[Nantuko Joe]

can't goku teleport anyways anyway at the beginning of dbz Gokus brother the one with long hair dodged one of gokus fireball and Goku and Piccolo said that he moved faster than than the speed of light and they are now way beyond him in power so i would guess they move faster than the speed of light. :D


http://members.tripod.com/duo241/HTMLobj-1140/aniGif.gif
That's a false statement. Goku couldn't teleport until after he beat Furiza on Namek (he learned the Shunkan Idou from the Yardratt-jin).

Piccolo only said that Radditzu moved faster than the speed of light in the English version of the anime. As we all know, the English version sucks major ass. In the manga, Piccolo didnt' say anything, he was just shocked.

So, they can't move faster than the speed of light.

And I remember that a while ago, someone said that Gotenks can move faster than the speed of light because he circled the planet eight times in less than a second. I don't remember who you were, but that's also a false statement. He didn't do it in a sec, it took him 29 minutes, Piccolo says so himself. When Gotenks finished circling the earth and Piccolo tried to stop him from fighting Buu, he said he had less than a minute before the fusion wore off. And since we all know that the Fusion only lasts for 30 minutes, we can asume that it took Gotenks 29 minutes to circle the earth eight times

[DarkKilla]

come on now sf wouldnt stand a chance they would be wiped out with 1 hit each it would only take vegeta or goku or gohan to destroy them alone goku ssj3s power level is 950,000,000 and if ryu had a power level it wouldnt even be over http://www.geocities.com/saiyanjinradditz/wgens095a.zip

[kingofhearts]

i knew that i didn't say when he began to teleport ,but did not know about the english version being wrong :D


[img:post_uid2]http://members.tripod.com/duo241/HTMLobj-1140/aniGif.gif[/img:post_uid2]

[DarkKilla]

this is my web page http://www.geocities.com/saiyanjinradditz/wgens095a.zip

[Nantuko Joe]

kingofhearts Posted on Oct. 11 2002,12:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i knew that i didn't say when he began to teleport ,but did not know about the english version being wrong

Yeah...the english version renames everything. see my post at the bottom of page 33

DarkKilla Posted on Oct. 11 2002,12:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is my web page http://www.geocities.com/saiyanjinradditz/wgens095a.zip

Your site doesnt' work for one, and for two, why did you post that?

[TarkanX]

Well, like I've said before, you can't count on the animation. Wehn you see it on tv, Radizt could move faster than light.

no


I say that because of the blur and then the sudden appearance in a different spot.

Do you even know how fast the speed of light is?


It took me a while to hear that no one could move faster than light until the Buu saga. Krillin/Kuririn should be able to handle almost any Street Fighter.

Yes almost any SF character.

I don't know as much about Street Fighter than the experts here, so I can't really tell you who Krillin/Kuririn can't beat. Make a list of characters who would win against a list of SFers. Like this:

Gotenks: Everyone.
Gohan: Everyone.
Goku: Everyone.
Krillin/Kuririn: Ryu, Ken, many others.

Something like that. Just make it more accurate.


Krillin is right, Gotenks is wrong, Gohan is wrong, and Goku is wrong.



Dude, Ryu could own all the DBZ people, Ryu uses an attack thats like, 100x stronger than the spirit bomb Goku uses to fight Freza... Im pretty sure, that he could blow them up good:) and Ryu uses concentrated energy, its not all uber huge.


ROTFL


And if xmen were in teh fight, none of the dbz people would have a chance, only ryu... because Gambit can control all raw energies, so therefore all the DBZ peeps would die, and the Hadouken would be left standing.


every X-men character except Jubille would kill Ryu.


I think it was more like Cell x .5 of Android 17's energy. But thats still prolly way off


ehh... I think you meant 1.5x, anywho, I put him about 1.2x above Android 17 in his first form after absorbing the humans, but I know I'm wrong, I havent put a lot of thought in the Cell saga.



First off, I don't understand why everyone thinks Ryu is the best SF. We've got ppl in here saying "ryu this" and "ryu that". Does Ryu have enough energy to be able to blow up a planet (if he wanted to)? I sincerely doubt that. If Ryu focused all his power into one attack, it may be enough to destroy Texas, but not a planet.


Texas is way off, his Shinkuu Hadouken fully charged should be able to maybe... destroy a car.



can't goku teleport anyways anyway at the beginning of dbz Gokus brother the one with long hair dodged one of gokus fireball and Goku and Piccolo said that he moved faster than than the speed of light and they are now way beyond him in power so i would guess they move faster than the speed of light

That was from the dub...



And I remember that a while ago, someone said that Gotenks can move faster than the speed of light because he circled the planet eight times in less than a second. I don't remember who you were, but that's also a false statement. He didn't do it in a sec, it took him 29 minutes, Piccolo says so himself. When Gotenks finished circling the earth and Piccolo tried to stop him from fighting Buu, he said he had less than a minute before the fusion wore off. And since we all know that the Fusion only lasts for 30 minutes, we can asume that it took Gotenks 29 minutes to circle the earth eight times

Argh I missed that page in the manga, so I guess Gotenks can't go at the speed of light, and that means that no DB character can go at the speed of light(except maybe SSJ2 Vegetto). Thanks Joe for pointing that out.



come on now sf wouldnt stand a chance they would be wiped out with 1 hit each it would only take vegeta or goku or gohan to destroy them alone goku ssj3s power level is 950,000,000 and if ryu had a power level it wouldnt even be over

SSJ3 Goku's PL is not 950 million, don't know where you got that from.

[ss4goku]

:crazy:dbz because broly can destory everything when he turns ssj4 and goku,gohan,gotenks,goten,trunks,vegta,vegto,gogeta ,can all turn in to ssj3 or 2 or 4 or just ssj :D

[Roll]

Was Brolly even in the manga's?

So, who exactly are those few SFers that would stand a chance besides Gill? I'm so curious to find out...

[Gotenks13]

Well, Tarkan, I do know how fast light is, well, not exactly, but its like 800,000 m/s...something around there. I'm saying that you can't count on the animation. I know that Radizt can't move faster than light...now. I was pointing out that the English version makes it seem the all of the Z Fighters move faster than light by the way they have the animation. You dont have to put almost in bold Tarkan. I'm not as SF dumb as you might think. As for the list, I asked for a more accurate one. That is nowhere near a good one to go by. PLease try to understand my posts better when you quote me, and watch the spelling...you make me look stupid. :biggrin:

[Nantuko Joe]

Quote

come on now sf wouldnt stand a chance they would be wiped out with 1 hit each it would only take vegeta or goku or gohan to destroy them alone goku ssj3s power level is 950,000,000 and if ryu had a power level it wouldnt even be over


SSJ3 Goku's PL is not 950 million, don't know where you got that from.

Exactly. There are no stated Power Levels after the Furiza Saga. Who said that anyway?

ehh... I think you meant 1.5x, anywho, I put him about 1.2x above Android 17 in his first form after absorbing the humans, but I know I'm wrong, I havent put a lot of thought in the Cell saga.

Actually, I meant it was prolly like this:

Semi-Perfect Cell = Cell + .5 Android 17

Texas is way off, his Shinkuu Hadouken fully charged should be able to maybe... destroy a car.

Lol

Argh I missed that page in the manga, so I guess Gotenks can't go at the speed of light, and that means that no DB character can go at the speed of light(except maybe SSJ2 Vegetto). Thanks Joe for pointing that out.

No problem

crazy:dbz because broly can destory everything when he turns ssj4 and goku,gohan,gotenks,goten,trunks,vegta,vegto,gogeta ,can all turn in to ssj3 or 2 or 4 or just ssj

WTF? First off, Brolli doesn't exist in the manga, so he isn't a valid character. Next off, SSJ4 was only in GT. Since GT was not made into a manga format by Toriyama, it is not valid in this debate. Gogeta was also only from the Movies and GT, and therefore is not valid in this debate

Was Brolly even in the manga's?

So, who exactly are those few SFers that would stand a chance besides Gill? I'm so curious to find out...

No, he was not. And I think Tarkan thinks that Bison would also stand a chance.

Well, Tarkan, I do know how fast light is, well, not exactly, but its like 800,000 m/s...something around there. I'm saying that you can't count on the animation. I know that Radizt can't move faster than light...now. I was pointing out that the English version makes it seem the all of the Z Fighters move faster than light by the way they have the animation. You dont have to put almost in bold Tarkan. I'm not as SF dumb as you might think. As for the list, I asked for a more accurate one. That is nowhere near a good one to go by. PLease try to understand my posts better when you quote me, and watch the spelling...you make me look stupid.

When you can't see them fight, just see blurs, that doesnt' mean that they're going the speed of light. The human eye can only see like 24 frames per second. Therefore, the characters in DBZ could be moving at 12 frames per second, not the speed of light.

and don't worry, Tarkan makes me look stupid sometimes too. His superior genious does that sometimes :D

[TarkanX]

Who said that anyway?

himself(planet namek listed SSJ3 Goku at like 450 million, which is wrong for various reasons.


Actually, I meant it was prolly like this:

Semi-Perfect Cell = Cell + .5 Android 17

hmm.... I don't know what power up to give Cell after absorbing Android 17, there isn't nothing stated or something that gives me a good clue, other than ROSAT facts.



And I think Tarkan thinks that Bison would also stand a chance.

Gill, Bison, Oro, Akuma, Dhalsim, Urien(maybe), Charlie(maybe), Gen(maybe).

That list is not potential wise since Gen would be way up there at the top fighters, it goes by the ki manipulation or the "death" power the character has. For Example:


Gen hardly has ki manipulation, he's an old geezer, but his speed, agility, and reflexes make up for this, he knows which parts of a body to attack(since he's an assassin of course).

Dhalsim has a whole lot of ki manipulation, he can meditate your brain and then destroy it, he can destroy buildings by just thinking, the only problem is that he doesn't have fighting experience.

Charlie might be just another powerful air force member, but he has a lot of ki manipulation. If you get hit by his sonic boom, it's like the slash of a kitana hitting your body. He also has the power to throw out as many sonic booms as he wants to without wasting a lot of energy(unlike the kamehameha).

Urien is a maybe. He has the power of wind/electrity, and earthly elements. his body is harder than iron, he can make a mirror that protects himself(from most projectile attacks).


Shin Bison is VERY powerful, a whole lot of ki manipulation, he's like a mutant, his attacks hdarly take up any of his energy, because he himself is basically energy manipulation. he can levatate(so no need for walking), he can fly, power up, teleport to whereever he wants to, he can do what most of the DB"Z" characters do.

Akuma is not like any other martial artist. His attacks are very damaging, even a gou hadouken has the power to kill someone(his regular fireball). His special moves can kill someone. he can teleport(but not where he wanst to, his teleportation is more like how you see the DB"Z" characters in the anime(though that's just speed). His shun goku satsu(raging demon) kills the opponents souls, and sends them to hell, his kongou kokuretsuzan had the power to destroys Ayers rock(the biggest monolith mountain in the world located in Australia. His Tenshou Kareki Jin shown in his endings completely destroyed a huge ship.

Oro has a whole lot of ki manipulation, maybe even more than Bison. He had the power to live up to 150, and is still alive right now(Krillin 10 years after the Buu saga is growing grey hair). He has to use one arm to not accidently kill his opponents, and when he uses two arms(shown in his EXed supers), they create a whole world for power. His EX kishin riki grabs you, then while he's holding on to you, he jumps up to the clouds.... then drops you like a war bomb. His EX Yagyou-Dama creates an orbed fireball so hgue that they had to shorten it due to gameplay rules(like Akuma's horrible defense). His EX Tengou-stone
gets all the debree(papers, beer bottles, soda cans, rocks, etc...) in the world, and it gets all around him, much like how Piccolo has rocks swirling around him like atoms, though the game play weakens this.


His superior genious does that sometimes

I'm not that smart, I just like to pay attention to specific things that require a lot of thinking.

[ss4goku]

Oh yeah who's Goku's mom.
And, how did his dad escape the fight with the pink fight guy Vegeta killed on Namek.

Goku's mom was never seen, and I don't know if Goku's father fought dodoria, since we never saw how planet vegeta was destroyed, it was just talked about.


Please slow down on the questions, if you want to know a lot about DB"Z", make a new topic.
goku's father was killed by frieza his name was bardock ;)

[ss4goku]

frieza destroyed namek :D :p i don't know ??? ??? ???

[Roll]

What's your point, SS4?

[mysticveggeto]

they had to wait like an hour

[ss4goku]

veggto what do you mean ??? they had to wait a hour ???

[mysticveggeto]

frieza had to wait for an hour until the planit nemik would be destroyde

[mysticveggeto]

ss4 goku wats your url foor your banner

[Nantuko Joe]

First off, vegeto and ssj4 goku your Avatars and Banners are too much alike...your confusing me. That's a problem because one of you is making about as much sense as a screen door in a submarine.

Gen hardly has ki manipulation, he's an old geezer, but his speed, agility, and reflexes make up for this, he knows which parts of a body to attack(since he's an assassin of course).

However, depending on the DBZ character he attacks, he may NEED to have excellent strength to take advantage of an opponent's pressure points. There have been many instances in DBZ where an enemy doesnt' even FEEL the opponent's blows. Or, in the case of Buu, just absorbs the blows.

Dhalsim has a whole lot of ki manipulation, he can meditate your brain and then destroy it, he can destroy buildings by just thinking, the only problem is that he doesn't have fighting experience.

He may be able to destroy a building just by thinking, but a building isn't a moving, breathing, fighting obstacle. Could he do the same with a powered-up Z Fighter like Trunks or Gohan? As far as the destroying brain thing, I don't know about SF attacks, so I guess that's a pretty useful move.

Charlie might be just another powerful air force member, but he has a lot of ki manipulation. If you get hit by his sonic boom, it's like the slash of a kitana hitting your body. He also has the power to throw out as many sonic booms as he wants to without wasting a lot of energy(unlike the kamehameha).

That is a VERY big advantage on Charlie's part, the fact that he could shoot many sonic booms w/o draining a lot of his energy. However, how strong is each individual Sonic Boom? Is it like the Kienzan, with very little power but still retaining the ability to cut through almost anything? Because even if that is so, it still may not be effective against the high-level Z-Fighters. As we all remember, Kuririn's Kienzan struck Cell directly at the neck, and Cell's neck didn't even get a scratch, it instead broke the Kienzan

Urien is a maybe. He has the power of wind/electrity, and earthly elements. his body is harder than iron, he can make a mirror that protects himself(from most projectile attacks).

I dont' know who Urien is, so I can't say whether or not he would stand a chance. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say maybe

Shin Bison is VERY powerful, a whole lot of ki manipulation, he's like a mutant, his attacks hdarly take up any of his energy, because he himself is basically energy manipulation. he can levatate(so no need for walking), he can fly, power up, teleport to whereever he wants to, he can do what most of the DB"Z" characters do.

Yes, I'd have to admit, Bison would indeed give many of the DBZ characters a run for their money. He could prolly take out Trunks, Goten, and maybe even Gohan. If Vegeta underestimates him (like he does most of the enemies he faces), he'd prolly be in trouble too

Akuma is not like any other martial artist. His attacks are very damaging, even a gou hadouken has the power to kill someone(his regular fireball). His special moves can kill someone. he can teleport(but not where he wanst to, his teleportation is more like how you see the DB"Z" characters in the anime(though that's just speed). His shun goku satsu(raging demon) kills the opponents souls, and sends them to hell, his kongou kokuretsuzan had the power to destroys Ayers rock(the biggest monolith mountain in the world located in Australia. His Tenshou Kareki Jin shown in his endings completely destroyed a huge ship.

Though that sounds really powerful, I doubt he'd be able to take on the likes of the "higher" DBZ warriors. As for the Shun Goku Satsu, i've finally came up with something against it:

With permission from Lord Emma (King Yamma), a soul can be released from the afterlife to return to the real world. With this in mind, any DBZ character killed by the Raging Demon could be allowed back to the real world by Emma, and Urani Baba's unique teleportation could carry them back to the battle.

Oro has a whole lot of ki manipulation, maybe even more than Bison. He had the power to live up to 150, and is still alive right now(Krillin 10 years after the Buu saga is growing grey hair). He has to use one arm to not accidently kill his opponents, and when he uses two arms(shown in his EXed supers), they create a whole world for power. His EX kishin riki grabs you, then while he's holding on to you, he jumps up to the clouds.... then drops you like a war bomb. His EX Yagyou-Dama creates an orbed fireball so hgue that they had to shorten it due to gameplay rules(like Akuma's horrible defense). His EX Tengou-stone
gets all the debree(papers, beer bottles, soda cans, rocks, etc...) in the world, and it gets all around him, much like how Piccolo has rocks swirling around him like atoms, though the game play weakens this.

Was this the guy you said was kinda like Kid Buu? He also sounds like one of the more powerful SF fighters, but one of his attacks is invalid. the EX kishin riki could indeed drop a Z-Fighter from up in the sky, but all of the Z-Fighters have the Bukujutsu, and could simply fly away instead of falling. And even if they DO fall to the ground, they'd just make a huge crater, then get back up again.

Here are the DBZ characters and their attacks that I believe would decimate the SF characters:

Piccolo
Sai-sei-the ability to regenerate. This would allow Piccolo to regrow lost limbs. However, this attack severely drains energy from him if the damage is too great.

Makankosappo-the "special beam cannon", this could pierce through the strongest armor. However, it takes a little while to charge up to be really deadly

Renzoku Senkoudan-prolly Piccolo's most powerful attack, he surrounds his enemy with dozens (maybe even hundreds) of ki packets and allows them to converge on the enemy simultaneously. They then explode, and could possibly kill the enemy outright if he can't form a strong enough shield.

Gotenks
Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack-the attack that crippled Buu and almost killed him. I doubt that any SF character could survive this.

Gekitotsu Ultra Buu Buu Volley Ball-another ridiculous attack, the buu buu volleyball attack could cripple the enemy fighter, leaving him vulnerable to a finishing maneuver

Vegeta
Big Bang Attack-it doesn't take very long AT ALL to charge up, and is really strong.

Final Flash-though it takes a lot longer to charge up than a Kamehameha, it's a hell of a lot stronger

Explosion-dont' know the real name for it, it's the attack he used against Buu that turned himself to stone. That could cripple a SF fighter

Gohan
Mystic-since he's always his max power and can't get any stronger, he's damn strong

Masenko-pretty much like a Kamehameha

Furiza
Implosion-still don't know the name for the attack, it's the attack he used to kill Kuririn. He pretty much uses his power to explode the enemy's ki (i think)

Goku
Fusion-if he fuses with Vegeta to form Vegetto, it's pretty much all over

Kamehameha-umm...it's the Kamehameha...the third strongest attack in the series.

Fat Buu
think about it. until buu split and got rid of his evil half, he was invincible.

[ibuku]

first place ive played a game sf vs dbz and most of the time sf people win

[princevegetam]

dhalsim: it is not possible for him to destroy a dbz character's brain with his ki. because dbz characters can counter with their own ki. i would say that dbz characters have more powerful ki manipulation than dhalsim because they have the ability to fly for long periods of time and shoot very powerful ki beams.

gen: gen is chinese and almost all chinese martial arts stress on the importance of striking pressure points. since goku and many other dbz characters were trained by master roshi through chinese martial arts, it is more than likely they also know the techniques of hitting pressure points.

charlie: that form of ki manipulation is illogical and seems impossible. so unless you can explain how the sonicboom works then i cannot consider it possible. and i believe you were refering to a katana not a kitana. well, in the saiyan saga, yajirobe carried with him a katana. trunks and dabura have also had swords. all of them have been broken by the strength of dbz fighters.

oro: the true potential behind this guy has not yet been shown in any sf game due mostly to his one hand use. therefore, we cannot judge his real potential.

[Nantuko Joe]

dhalsim: it is not possible for him to destroy a dbz character's brain with his ki. because dbz characters can counter with their own ki. i would say that dbz characters have more powerful ki manipulation than dhalsim because they have the ability to fly for long periods of time and shoot very powerful ki beams.

gen: gen is chinese and almost all chinese martial arts stress on the importance of striking pressure points. since goku and many other dbz characters were trained by master roshi through chinese martial arts, it is more than likely they also know the techniques of hitting pressure points.

charlie: that form of ki manipulation is illogical and seems impossible. so unless you can explain how the sonicboom works then i cannot consider it possible. and i believe you were refering to a katana not a kitana. well, in the saiyan saga, yajirobe carried with him a katana. trunks and dabura have also had swords. all of them have been broken by the strength of dbz fighters.

oro: the true potential behind this guy has not yet been shown in any sf game due mostly to his one hand use. therefore, we cannot judge his real potential.
I think Tarkan was sayin that the Sonic Boom works kinda like a Kienzan attack in the fact that you don't have to be mad strong to use it, and its a powerful attack.

And as far as the Gen/pressure points go, I doubt he HAS the strength potential to hit the Z characters hard enough for hte pressure points to affect them

[Ludacris]

frieza had to wait for an hour until the planit nemik would be destroyde
it wasn't an hour it was 5 min.......it seemed like an hour cuz they made like 5 or 6 episodes before the planet blew up.......

[TarkanX]

However, depending on the DBZ character he attacks, he may NEED to have excellent strength to take advantage of an opponent's pressure points. There have been many instances in DBZ where an enemy doesnt' even FEEL the opponent's blows. Or, in the case of Buu, just absorbs the blows.

Yeah, but he's like gum, ro whatever... he doesn't have any vital parts, so he doesn't really receive much damage. Goku, and Vegeta have Vital parts, so they are able to receive damage. If an average guy hit me as hard as he could at ym back, I'd just brush it off, but if he hit me at my "adam's apple", I'd breathe for my life.



He may be able to destroy a building just by thinking, but a building isn't a moving, breathing, fighting obstacle. Could he do the same with a powered-up Z Fighter like Trunks or Gohan? As far as the destroying brain thing, I don't know about SF attacks, so I guess that's a pretty useful move.

He can teleport.


That is a VERY big advantage on Charlie's part, the fact that he could shoot many sonic booms w/o draining a lot of his energy. However, how strong is each individual Sonic Boom? Is it like the Kienzan, with very little power but still retaining the ability to cut through almost anything? Because even if that is so, it still may not be effective against the high-level Z-Fighters. As we all remember, Kuririn's Kienzan struck Cell directly at the neck, and Cell's neck didn't even get a scratch, it instead broke the Kienzan

Filler, kienzan cuts through anything. Charlie's sonic boom's are as strong as getting hit by a kitana blade, they are as fast as the speed of sound(760 miles per hour on a good day).


With permission from Lord Emma (King Yamma), a soul can be released from the afterlife to return to the real world. With this in mind, any DBZ character killed by the Raging Demon could be allowed back to the real world by Emma, and Urani Baba's unique teleportation could carry them back to the battle.

Then Akuma will keep doing the shun goku satsu. The only way to survive the shun goku satsu is to release your soul, like Gen did, and Piccolo could most likely do that too, or to have a deity status like Gill.



Was this the guy you said was kinda like Kid Buu? He also sounds like one of the more powerful SF fighters, but one of his attacks is invalid. the EX kishin riki could indeed drop a Z-Fighter from up in the sky, but all of the Z-Fighters have the Bukujutsu, and could simply fly away instead of falling. And even if they DO fall to the ground, they'd just make a huge crater, then get back up again.

The person I said was like kid Buu was twelve, he's also one of the most powerful SF characters. And yeah I guess that is true....



Sai-sei-the ability to regenerate. This would allow Piccolo to regrow lost limbs. However, this attack severely drains energy from him if the damage is too great.

Destroy his head, then he dies.


Makankosappo-the "special beam cannon", this could pierce through the strongest armor. However, it takes a little while to charge up to be really deadly


quickly destroy Piccolo before he gets it fully charged.



Renzoku Senkoudan-prolly Piccolo's most powerful attack, he surrounds his enemy with dozens (maybe even hundreds) of ki packets and allows them to converge on the enemy simultaneously. They then explode, and could possibly kill the enemy outright if he can't form a strong enough shield.

Teleport out of the way, Gill could just Seraphic Wing his renzoku Senkoudan.



Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack-the attack that crippled Buu and almost killed him. I doubt that any SF character could survive this

One reason I don't like Gotenks is because he has too many dumb attacks, anyways.... just teleport out of the way.



Gekitotsu Ultra Buu Buu Volley Ball-another ridiculous attack, the buu buu volleyball attack could cripple the enemy fighter, leaving him vulnerable to a finishing maneuver

teleport



Big Bang Attack-it doesn't take very long AT ALL to charge up, and is really strong.

teleport, or Seraphic Wing.


Final Flash-though it takes a lot longer to charge up than a Kamehameha, it's a hell of a lot stronger

This is a really strong attack, I'd just say teleport, when vegeta did this on Cell, he did his very best to not destroy the earth.


Explosion-dont' know the real name for it, it's the attack he used against Buu that turned himself to stone. That could cripple a SF fighter

It would kill a SF IMO. unless Vegeta holds the SF, and does it, he'd win, but that's suicide. other than that, they'd just teleport.


Implosion-still don't know the name for the attack, it's the attack he used to kill Kuririn. He pretty much uses his power to explode the enemy's ki (i think)


He has to target the opponent, and get him with it, then he can implode them.


Mystic-since he's always his max power and can't get any stronger, he's damn strong

he was weaker than Super Buu with Gotenks, and Piccolo.


I'll do the other stuff later, I'm tired right now....

[Nantuko Joe]

First off, Tarkan, I noticed that for every attack I listed, you said the SF character would teleport out of the way. Yet i think it was like 10 pages back or something i said Goku could teleport away from every attack and you said something like "This is a fight, so he'd have to stop teleporting eventually and fight". So im gonna say the same to you. And if the only way to dodge the attacks is to teleport, then the SF characters apparently don't have any counterattacks strong enough to repel the DBZ attacks.

Plus, in that respect, I can say that the DBZ characters could use "teleport" against any attack SF throws at them.

Yeah, but he's like gum, ro whatever... he doesn't have any vital parts, so he doesn't really receive much damage. Goku, and Vegeta have Vital parts, so they are able to receive damage. If an average guy hit me as hard as he could at ym back, I'd just brush it off, but if he hit me at my "adam's apple", I'd breathe for my life.

No...no...no...

What i'm saying is, he may not be strong enough to hit the Z fighter hard enough for them to feel the blow...even if it is a pressure point. Cell hit Android 16's pressure point in his neck to deactivate him, but he was too weak to activate it.

Then Akuma will keep doing the shun goku satsu. The only way to survive the shun goku satsu is to release your soul, like Gen did, and Piccolo could most likely do that too, or to have a deity status like Gill.

Eventually, he'll run out of power, and have too little power to do it over and over again. Besides, what kind of fighter is that? That's like the Infinite Hadoken thing in the game. It's too cheap. and Goku (ex) could simply Shunkan Idou away from it in the first place

quickly destroy Piccolo before he gets it fully charged.

Piccolo doesn't need a lot of time to charge it up anymore. He only needed a lot of time vs. Radditzu because he was at a low power level. However, when Cell shot the Makankosappo at Piccolo (when they first fought), Cell didn't charge it up at all

Teleport out of the way, Gill could just Seraphic Wing his renzoku Senkoudan.

What is Seraph wing? And he'd be too busy dodging the initial blasts that form the Renzoku Senkoudan to be able to form this Seraph wing counterattack

One reason I don't like Gotenks is because he has too many dumb attacks, anyways.... just teleport out of the way.

pffft...teleport. The Kamikaze Ghost Clones home in on their targets. And he'll have to stop teleporting EVENTUALLY

Quote

Gekitotsu Ultra Buu Buu Volley Ball-another ridiculous attack, the buu buu volleyball attack could cripple the enemy fighter, leaving him vulnerable to a finishing maneuver


teleport

The Volley Ball isn't a beam or projectile. Pretty much, Gotenks grabs the enemy and crushes him into a soccer ball-sized sphere, then kicks it around like the World Cup in Brazil. While in the sphere, the enemy cannot counterattack until the attack wears off, so he is open to any other attack that is launched at him

teleport, or Seraphic Wing

Bah...teleport. gotta come up with something better than that

This is a really strong attack, I'd just say teleport, when vegeta did this on Cell, he did his very best to not destroy the earth.

Bah...teleport...not good enough. come up with something better

It would kill a SF IMO. unless Vegeta holds the SF, and does it, he'd win, but that's suicide. other than that, they'd just teleport.

Bah...teleport. I'm seeing a pattern here...

He has to target the opponent, and get him with it, then he can implode them.

That didn't take long for Furiza, he did it in like a sec or two

he was weaker than Super Buu with Gotenks, and Piccolo.

true...but that's not comparing it to the SF characters

[princevegetam]

well, nantuko said everything i was gonna say. any character can teleport forever, but what kind of fight would that be?

plus, you didn't answer any of my questions... :(

[TarkanX]

Alrighty, where was I....


dhalsim: it is not possible for him to destroy a dbz character's brain with his ki. because dbz characters can counter with their own ki. i would say that dbz characters have more powerful ki manipulation than dhalsim because they have the ability to fly for long periods of time and shoot very powerful ki beams.

DHalsim can fly for long periods of time, and you dont need huge ki blasts to win. Look at.....Nam, but if you mean DB"Z", then I guess you win on that part.


charlie: that form of ki manipulation is illogical and seems impossible. so unless you can explain how the sonicboom works then i cannot consider it possible. and i believe you were refering to a katana not a kitana. well, in the saiyan saga, yajirobe carried with him a katana. trunks and dabura have also had swords. all of them have been broken by the strength of dbz fighters.

So the Kienzan is impossible... heh... and those are swords, physical weapons, then have the power to be broken. ki cannot be broken, because ki is energy, and energy is never broken, it's everywhere.


oro: the true potential behind this guy has not yet been shown in any sf game due mostly to his one hand use. therefore, we cannot judge his real potential.

Gameplay wise you can't, but if you study oro harder, by his quotes, and ending, you can see why he is that powerful. He lifts huge boulders with his mind without even trying.



Eventually, he'll run out of power, and have too little power to do it over and over again. Besides, what kind of fighter is that? That's like the Infinite Hadoken thing in the game. It's too cheap. and Goku (ex) could simply Shunkan Idou away from it in the first place


Alright this is true, it's like I'm doing propaganda....



Piccolo doesn't need a lot of time to charge it up anymore. He only needed a lot of time vs. Radditzu because he was at a low power level. However, when Cell shot the Makankosappo at Piccolo (when they first fought), Cell didn't charge it up at all

In the Raditz saga, Piccolo just learned the technique, and didn;t have much time to improve on it, so he could charge it up fast, but any fighter can dodge it, that is if they are fast enough.


What is Seraph wing? And he'd be too busy dodging the initial blasts that form the Renzoku Senkoudan to be able to form this Seraph wing counterattack

If only I had a game clip to show you. In the dictionary, Seraph means the highest form of angels. Gill grows out two wings, then the attack destroys basically anything, it looks like rainbows come out of it. Imagine Seraphic wing like Android 17's shield, except it comes out much faster, and hits you, and guards you at the same time. In the game, when Oro does his EX Yagyou-dama(huge fireball), Gill's Seraphic Wing obliterates it.


pffft...teleport. The Kamikaze Ghost Clones home in on their targets. And he'll have to stop teleporting EVENTUALLY

Okay.... the SFers would get killed by this attack. except Twelve, and maybe Gill(but Gill cannot die, he is immortal, a deity).


The Volley Ball isn't a beam or projectile. Pretty much, Gotenks grabs the enemy and crushes him into a soccer ball-sized sphere, then kicks it around like the World Cup in Brazil. While in the sphere, the enemy cannot counterattack until the attack wears off, so he is open to any other attack that is launched at him

Twelve can survive this. While Gill is immortal, his body is not, but his soul is. He can still fight with his soul.


Bah...teleport. gotta come up with something better than that

Seraphic Wing, don't need to say more.


your last 2 answers

seraphic Wing


That didn't take long for Furiza, he did it in like a sec or two

Did you see how Freiza shot that beam and killed Dende? Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin didn't even see it, and Piccolo was on par with Freiza form 2. The person would have to be incredibly fast to escape Freizas implosion.


true...but that's not comparing it to the SF characters

Alright... I'm getting dumber right now... anywho... Shin Bison would most likely lose, not sure about oro(max power). But Gill would definitely win. One reason is because Gohan is flesh, and cannot regenerate.


Anyways... Gill would just meteor shower anyone. I fhtey went up into the air like they usually do, Gill would call fire and ice from the heavens, and dump it all over the opponent.


I'll say some other things later. I have a list of how the Sfers projectiles work, how powerful they are, and the effect it has when it hits the opponent. I'll list that later.

[Nantuko Joe]

DHalsim can fly for long periods of time, and you dont need huge ki blasts to win. Look at.....Nam, but if you mean DB"Z", then I guess you win on that part.

Although the part about Nam is true (he didn't have any ki manipulation and yet he still almost beat Goku), you gotta realize that that was way back in the day, where everyones power levels were around <300. I'd stake Nam at about 20. However, unless you have superhuman speed and strength at the same level of the Z fighters, i doubt he'd win

So the Kienzan is impossible... heh... and those are swords, physical weapons, then have the power to be broken. ki cannot be broken, because ki is energy, and energy is never broken, it's everywhere.

That's what I said. See! I was defending you!

Alright this is true, it's like I'm doing propaganda....
haha :D

In the Raditz saga, Piccolo just learned the technique, and didn;t have much time to improve on it, so he could charge it up fast, but any fighter can dodge it, that is if they are fast enough.

Yes, but if they are not fast enough, or are caught off guard....R.I.P.

If only I had a game clip to show you. In the dictionary, Seraph means the highest form of angels. Gill grows out two wings, then the attack destroys basically anything, it looks like rainbows come out of it. Imagine Seraphic wing like Android 17's shield, except it comes out much faster, and hits you, and guards you at the same time. In the game, when Oro does his EX Yagyou-dama(huge fireball), Gill's Seraphic Wing obliterates it.

So its like a shield that hurts your opponent? Wouldn't that require a pretty good amount of energy to form and sustain?

Okay.... the SFers would get killed by this attack. except Twelve, and maybe Gill(but Gill cannot die, he is immortal, a deity).

Yes! :alien:

your two answers

He can do the Seraph Wing repeatedly without any loss of energy?

Twelve can survive this. While Gill is immortal, his body is not, but his soul is. He can still fight with his soul.

That is not possible (at least in DBZ terms). The only reason Goku was able to fight Buu in the Buu Saga was because his BODY was given back to him. However, had his body not been given to him, he would have returned to earth as a ghost. Ghosts can't fight. Therefore, even if Gill's spirit is immortal, his body would die but his spirit would not go to the afterlife, and he would become a permanent ghost

Did you see how Freiza shot that beam and killed Dende? Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin didn't even see it, and Piccolo was on par with Freiza form 2. The person would have to be incredibly fast to escape Freizas implosion.

That's my point. Unless the opponent IS incredibly fast, he's done for

I'll say some other things later. I have a list of how the Sfers projectiles work, how powerful they are, and the effect it has when it hits the opponent. I'll list that later.

I also have a list of DBZ attacks and how they work

[ajtimbs]

i like sf but i don't like dbz :)

[Nantuko Joe]

quit spamming you nOOb! this topic is about DBZ versus SF. If you have nothing intelligent to say about DBZ versus SF, then stay the hell out of the topic. And don't PM me again...

[ajtimbs]

[quote:post_uid5="Nantuko Joe"][color=green:post_uid5]quit spamming you nOOb! this topic is about DBZ versus SF. If you have nothing intelligent to say about DBZ versus SF, then stay the hell out of the topic. And don't PM me again...[/color:post_uid5][/quote:post_uid5]
i don't like you to :angryfire:

[Nantuko Joe]

quit spamming you nOOb! this topic is about DBZ versus SF. If you have nothing intelligent to say about DBZ versus SF, then stay the hell out of the topic. And don't PM me again...
i don't like you to :angryfire:
If only I had admin powers...

[Tidus2K2]

OK here I go. This is a very old post but i'm still interested in replying to it. DB against SF will lose in a fight. Reasons well in the db series goku wasn't that strong neither were any of the other characters.

DBZ against SF will be something to watch but i'd still say DBZ because it's just to obvious. Compare the attacks of all the SF characters with the DBZ and DBZ will win. Buu can take care of all the SF characters all by himself because he can't die.(He's still alive in DBGT as Ubuu)

DBGT against SF. SF lost this big time. The Dbgt characters are way to strong to lose this fight There almost invincible.

Now i don't wanna take up much time and post a lot of backup info because you can compare mentally. I've seen all the Sf movies and Episodes same with the DB series and seriously DBZ will win.

[Roll]

Very good, Tidus. Too bad they're talking about the manga's, GT is not included in the fight, and you shouldn't be comparing the characters because of JUST the attacks. Compare abilities, speed, defence, strength, technique, ki manipulation, and desperation moves.

[Nantuko Joe]

DB against SF will lose in a fight. Reasons well in the db series goku wasn't that strong neither were any of the other characters.

Very true.

DBZ against SF will be something to watch but i'd still say DBZ because it's just to obvious. Compare the attacks of all the SF characters with the DBZ and DBZ will win. Buu can take care of all the SF characters all by himself because he can't die.(He's still alive in DBGT as Ubuu)

Buu does indeed die, he is killed at the end of GT. The reason Uubu exists in GT is because at the end of DBZ Goku wishes Buu back from the dead so he can fight him. However, only Buu's good half returns, and instead of returning in Fat Buu form, he returns in Uubuu form. However...

...In the topic description and on the first page, Tarkan says not to include references to any movies, specials, and GT, because they are not official and they contradict the manga. Therefore, you cannot say anything about Uubuu in GT

DBGT against SF. SF lost this big time. The Dbgt characters are way to strong to lose this fight There almost invincible.

GT is unofficial, it contradicts the manga, it never happened. YOu cannot reference it in this topic

[Tidus2K2]

True. I knew he was talking about the manga long ago. He told me about this topic before he posted it. I just wanted an overall look at the whole thing.

Roll do you have any idea of what comparing means. I am not talking about the attacks it's everything. And i knew that gt wasn't in this long after u replied to this post. I just put it in there for the heck of it. Even though GT had nothing to do with akira it still is a part od DB sp just for the fun of it I did an overall check of the whole thing.

[Nantuko Joe]

Yes, DBGT is (unfortunately) part of the DB series, but it is not to be included in this debate.

Very good, Tidus. Too bad they're talking about the manga's, GT is not included in the fight, and you shouldn't be comparing the characters because of JUST the attacks. Compare abilities, speed, defence, strength, technique, ki manipulation, and desperation moves.

Speed
SF--speed of a superathletic human (human ppl), superhuman speed (mutant-like ppl)
DBZ--can move faster than the eye can see, (gotenks) can circle the earth 9 times in 29 minutes.
Edge: DBZ

Defense
SF--to my knowledge, have normal defenses, some can use energy to form shields
DBZ--muscles and skin are so thick that they don't even feel punches sometimes, can easily form ki shields to shield them from blasts.
Edge: DBZ

Strength
SF--superhuman
DBZ--can pick up mountains, can train normally in a room with 100 times earth's normal gravity
Edge: DBZ

Technique
WTF?
Edge: Draw

Energy/Ki Manipulation
SF--can form blasts capable of destroying a building
DBZ--can form blasts capable of destroying a planet
Edge: DBZ

Desperation Maneuvers
SF--don't know of any
DBZ--can self-destruct in a blast that can destroy Earth
Edge: DBZ


Yep...I think DBZ wins, hands-down

[Tidus2K2]

Yeap exactly what I mean. Unless u don't know what SF and DBZ r you'd wanna read a huge explanation but if youo do know them you automatically know who wins. Nantuko thats a good way to put it.

[Nantuko Joe]

Thank you :D

[Roll]

I know what both of them are, and I still don't see how DBZ would win hands down. There are more speeds than running, more strengths than punches/kicks, techinique is essential to all fighters, defenses.... well, yeah there are too many to count but I admit you got it on the ball, Ki manipulation.... there is still at least one more I can think of that doesn't involve attacking, and can change the entire battle, Desperation moves for SF would be attacks like... Sichisei Senkuu-Kyaku, Shun Goku Satsu, Hisho Burai Ken, Otoko Michi, etc.

(BTW, I don't want you guys to get bored, so I'm just trying to mix in a bit of... spice to liven things up, so please, calm yourselves when you post)

[Nantuko Joe]

I never said "they can run faster" and "they can only punch and kick". First off, not that many SFers have the ability to fly for long periods of time without wasting energy. However, every single major character in DBZ can fly. DBZ characters can fly faster, run faster, and attack faster.

Strength? Um...all you'd use your strength for in a battle is to hit and kick hard...and maybe throw stuff at your opponent, but aside from that, there's nothing else to strength...

Ki manipulation? what is the one other thing? when you manipulate ki, you can fly, shoot beams, and power up, there's not much more than that, aside from manipulating objects with your energy and throwing them without moving your limbs.

Technique? how is technique essential to all fighters? what the hell is technique, you mean the type of martial arts or fighting training one has? DBZ characters know many many different martial arts and the art of grappling. speed and strength are tied in with technique

Desparation moves? Please explain what those moves you listed actually do. I can't see a japanese word and say "ok, i understand what that means..." the only one on that list that I recognize is teh Shun Goku Satsu. esplain what the other ones do. And the reason why DBZ characters don't have many desparation moves is because they never have anyt need to use them

[SSJKarma]

SONIC BOOM description:
because it's a game they made it look like a ki blast but it isn't !
the name says it all, SONIC BOOM, he trust his fist forward and make it do a whirl that generate a WHIRLING SONIC WAVE that travel fast enough to hit any opponent !

because it's a game they had to make it visible and they also had to slower it or it would always hit the opponent !

see nantuko, that make sense !
other question, do you know SF completely ? i would say no because if you do not know those techniques then you simply never heard of ALL the characrets in SF !

OTOKO MICHI: DAN most powerfull super, where he grab onto the person and sefl destruct himself with his KI !

SHUN GOKU SATSU: you already know it so i won't describe it !

it's the only two i know because i use them much in MvsC2 !
the other are probably moves that i know but i suck in japanese !

anyway, i already said it once but no, i got BRUSHED aside !
you can't compare those 2, for the only reason is SF don't use ki the same way DBZ char does !

example:
SF use brute force and train to be STRONGER as in MUSCLE and TECHNIQUE
DBZ use KI attack and train to boost that KI.

SF use MUSCLE and TECHNIQUES
DBZ use KI to enhance ALL their KI Blast and their MUSCLE !

and again, the TRAINING goku and vegeta had (400x gravity) isn't impossible to us human ! as goku AND vegeta started training under very lower gravity first and then came up and up until they reach those gravities !

for the only purpose that they don't use the same techs there is simply no chance to that SF can defeat DBZ ! they can if it was DB as DB only used HAND-TO-HAND combat, but not DBZ !

nantuko: do you know that FAT BUU was there when UBUU was fighting in the tenkachi budokai ? he was playing card with SATAN in their house !

FAT BUU = good side
UBUU = reincarnation of the POWER of KID BUU !

in GT, FAT BUU died and UBUU absorbed him to become UUBUU ! or something like that !

[Roll]

hm... well, Think of all the desperation moves as attacks that are hard to avoid, have a highly increased speed and strength, can't be blocked, and all of those are like the shun goku satsu, except that Shun Goku Satsu is unique, as you need to release your soul in order to survive. All the other attacks are very painful towards enemies, but aren't totally kill material.

....I hope you're not bored now. But, I got's to go put the epilogue in for the Moogle Hunting thread. See ya!

[Tidus2K2]

Well even if DBZ characters had a hand to hand combat with Sf charaters they would still win.

Reasons:

Speed:Lighting fast speed. And at that speed any punch or kick would be a knock out.

Strength: Now these guys have a ton of power in their hands and legs. One punch from Vegeta or Goku would send someone like Akuma to his death.

Defense: The DBZ character would just stand there take all the hits and once the enemy is tired knock them out by Punch a hole through there stomach.

Well I don't want to get this to be a huge debate. I wana end by saying that I just love SF more than DBZ but I know that Sf wouldd lose to DBZ only because i've followed them both and I have the knowledge to know that SF would lose.

Only reason why I like SF more. Because the fights are interesting to watch the animation is phenominal and the story lines are great.

Just like the difference between a tekken game and a Sf game I rather play tekken for it's realism than SF with it's fake KI blast.

[Roll]

Speed:Lighting fast speed. And at that speed any punch or kick would be a knock out.
depends...

Strength: Now these guys have a ton of power in their hands and legs. One punch from Vegeta or Goku would send someone like Akuma to his death.
Yes, No.

Defense: The DBZ character would just stand there take all the hits and once the enemy is tired knock them out by Punch a hole through there stomach.
No, and not likely.

You're over-estimating, Tidus. And you're not talking about ALL the SF characters. *sighs* There must be at least one character that is so "powerful" that they could be able to tie up the arguement in knots.

[Tidus2K2]

I am not saying DBZ would win with no problem I'm sayin they would win but with a little bit fo work.

I don't think you've followed DB and the DBZ series or manga as long as I have. I'm just not making big points because I know who would win and why. And I thought that you guys knew enough about both SF and DBZ to know what I'm talking about.

I don't wanna wast emy time making an everlasting page with all there moves and techniques they would use to win because I have nothing to gain from it but another pointless reply to it.

[princevegetam]

i'm just going to debate with tarkan since he seems to be the most sensible and powerful debater on the SF side in this thing(no offense to anyone).

one question: if gill is a "god" and he is immortal, then, was he ever defeated? if he's immortal, then there is no need to continue this topic since he can never die. so if that is the case then sf would win (with 99% credit to gill's immortality of course).

[Tidus2K2]

OK then. IMmortality. Lets bring in the eternal dragon and wish for goku and vegeta to be immortal. Now that just sucks doesn't it. Two of the strongest fighters immortal against 1 immrotal. Still dbz has the edge.

[princevegetam]

that's ridiculous, it never happened in the manga. so vegeta and goku aren't immortal. you can't make things up, it would be like saying: get goku to train some more under 1 million x earth's gravity to beat akuma

[Tidus2K2]

LOL. I never said they're immrotal. I said it could be possibl, Don't you hink if it was dbz against SF they'd come up with a way to defeat him.

[princevegetam]

no, unless they bend the rules a little.

[Tidus2K2]

Yeap. Exactly what i meant.

[SSJKarma]

tidus2k2: if you already looked that much about DBZ, how come you never understood that it isn't power they have in their hand and foot, but KI ENHANCEMENTS !

when they give a punch to someone they can stay normal (not saying they aren't strong) the person wouldn't just destroy 20+ mountain on the way ! it would only bring him down to about 10 foot of distance.

now when they fight with buu or any other monster. they USE THEIR KI to enhance that same punch to make it much more powerfull ! same goes for the strenght and speed ! make a race between goku and mr satan when goku doesn't use up is ki and you'll notice that it is pretty even !

VEGETAM: your acting like we are nothing and i don't like it ! we are humans just like you and we have the right to have the truth. you aren't the only one who knows things and still you act like you know EVERYTHING there is to know about SF and DBZ !

i just don't like people like that !
i too wouldn't say SF would win, but the fight would still take forever cause TECHNIQUES are TECHNIQUES and even the fastest person in the world couldn't out speed another SPRINTER !

[princevegetam]

i never said that! i just said i'm going to take on the big fish(tarkanX) and then the other debaters. besides, he was the original debater on the SF side from the start.

[Tidus2K2]

Yo i love SF and DBZ but to tell u DBZ will win. But it will be a great fight between both sides.

Now karma are you telling me that goku and the rest of the z fighters are the same strenght as a human and they go all strong when the use there ki attacks. I'm sorry to say but that entirely incorrect. IN the Buu saga when vegeta had to punch the machine so he know's how hard he punches he broke the damn thing and thats wasn't even his hardest punch.

Fist to Fist or With KI attacks either way DBZ will win. Who cares abot the ki attacks or fighting the way your opponent does. If you have a technique use it if it can make you win the match. Its not like the zfighters get the energy to do all those attacks from someone else it's them who do it. It's just another one of there techniques. Thts like telling ryu he can't do a hadouken.

[Nantuko Joe]

see nantuko, that make sense!

I never said it didn't make sense. I said that the Sonic Boom was just like Kuririn's Kienzan

OTOKO MICHI: DAN most powerfull super, where he grab onto the person and sefl destruct himself with his KI !

First off, SF characters don't use ki. And even if that was the case, Dan would die becaus you said it yourself "he self-destructs"

example:
SF use brute force and train to be STRONGER as in MUSCLE and TECHNIQUE
DBZ use KI attack and train to boost that KI.

DBZ doesn't JUST USE KI! They use force. Look at Goku in the spaceship to Nameck. He was doing vertical push-ups, one-handed push-ups, hanging sit-ups, punches and kicks, that kind of thing. The reason they don't weight lift is because there's not enough weights on the planet for them to use, they're too strong physically

SF use MUSCLE and TECHNIQUES
DBZ use KI to enhance ALL their KI Blast and their MUSCLE !

DBZ doesn't just use ki. They practice in martial arts and the arts of grappling.

and again, the TRAINING goku and vegeta had (400x gravity) isn't impossible to us human ! as goku AND vegeta started training under very lower gravity first and then came up and up until they reach those gravities !

When Goku wanted to train in 100x gravity, he started off training in something like 20x (because he already trained in 10x on Kaio-sama's planet). Vegeta was much stronger when he started his gravity training, and he started at around 100x gravity and worked up to 400x

in GT, FAT BUU died and UBUU absorbed him to become UUBUU ! or something like that !

Why do you ppl keep bringing up GT? GT doesn't count, goddammit!

Well I don't want to get this to be a huge debate

41 pages doesn't qualify as a "huge debate"? :D

i'm just going to debate with tarkan since he seems to be the most sensible and powerful debater on the SF side in this thing(no offense to anyone).

one question: if gill is a "god" and he is immortal, then, was he ever defeated? if he's immortal, then there is no need to continue this topic since he can never die. so if that is the case then sf would win (with 99% credit to gill's immortality of course).

Just because he's a god doesnt' mean he can't die. Kami-sama (Kami) is a god, and he died when Piccolo died. North Kaio-sama (King Kai) is a god, and he died when Cell self-destructed. Rou Dai-Kaioshin (the old Supreme Kai) is the super-god-of-all-gods from 15 centuries ago, and he died when he gave his life for Goku.

So you see, gods can die.

and even if Gill can't die, the Z fighters would kill everyone BUT Gill, then somehow lure Gill into the Room of Spirit and Time and blow up the outside of the room. That way, Gill would forever be trapped in a never-ending empty dimension

OK then. IMmortality. Lets bring in the eternal dragon and wish for goku and vegeta to be immortal. Now that just sucks doesn't it. Two of the strongest fighters immortal against 1 immrotal. Still dbz has the edge.

Lol, there you go

that's ridiculous, it never happened in the manga. so vegeta and goku aren't immortal. you can't make things up, it would be like saying: get goku to train some more under 1 million x earth's gravity to beat akuma

He didn't say it DID happen. He's just saying IT COULD happen. If SF fought DBZ, they could wish for Goku and Vegeta to be immortal

i never said that! i just said i'm going to take on the big fish(tarkanX) and then the other debaters. besides, he was the original debater on the SF side from the start.

Pretty much 80% of my posts, I've been arguing against TarkanX.[/quote]

[color=green]Now karma are you telling me that goku and the rest of the z fighters are the same strenght as a human and they go all strong when the use there ki attacks. I'm sorry to say but that entirely incorrect. IN the Buu saga when vegeta had to punch the machine so he know's how hard he punches he broke the damn thing and thats wasn't even his hardest punch. [/quote]

[color=green]Exactly. In DBZ, when Goku was training in 100x gravity and later on when vegeta was in 400x gravity, they weren't JUST using ki to train, they were using strength. You can't say that the DBZ fighters use ki for everything

[Dan Hibiki]

Let's just end this debate. No matter what...

Akuma ownz any evil or impure person who committed evil in any series. Period. Shun Goku Satsu sends the person to Hell, where they are injured for how evil their past deeds were. In fact, the only people invincible to the Shun Goku Satsu, it seems, are those with severe brain damage or protected little brats (e.g. Goku, Gohan, Goten).

>.< D'oh! I wrote myself into a corner in my own debate!

... just one note... Street Fighter characters DO use Ki. Hadoken? Ki. Gadoken? Ki. Sonic Boom? Ki. The difference is that they use other types of power, too, like Psycho Power, which affects a persons strength in proportion to the evil in their heart (this is why SFA3 Bison is much stronger than SFII Turbo Bison, which is after he fused with Rose and lost his pure evil in his heart).

[Nantuko Joe]

This debate will NEVER END.

First off, I've already defeated the Shun Goku Satsu, even TarkanX admitted it. Simply get Lord Enma to allow the person to return to earth and get Uranai Baba's teleportation to bring them back to the fight. Akuma can't do that forever, and to everyone at the same time.

So ha.

And SF uses ki? I thought they were in the same league as XMEN, where they use energy, not ki. My bad.

DBZ still would rock SF's world.

[princevegetam]

joe is damn right! this isn't going to end that easily.

if dbz characters could wished for immortality then there would be no point to this fight. and gill isn't just a god, he's an immortal god. immortal means, no dying. so there is no way to destroy him, but there are a number of ways to trap him. but trapping him doesn't kill him so i guess it means SF wins.

and dan is right, all forms of energy attacks used in fighting are KI. stuff like psycho power are just different types of KI.

DBZ characters DO have techniques and strength!! just being able to manipulate KI at DBZ level requires LOTS of strength and technique! go read any martial arts book, it'll say so.

[Tidus2K2]

Nantuko always putting more detail into my argument. Thx.
And now all i want the debaters to do is stop for one moment and picture both DBZ and SF how they fight and how the show goes it's practically impossible to know who will win since they show so much force in one attack in SF and not much in DBZ. Now just picture both and tell me who will win goku with a Kaokenx100 Kamehameha or ryu with his hadouken. Compare both forces from what you've seen.

Now compare Gohan's speed when he was fighting cell and Ken when fighting Bison.
Now think when gohan punched cell in the stomach he made cell literally throw up #18. Now what if gohan punches Ryu like hat. Ryu won't be standing and waiting for the punch he will try to dodge it but with gohan's incredible speed he'll get him.

[princevegetam]

stop talking about the #### sf characters.

dbz won't defeat oro, gill and shin akuma so easily. they could be a problem, but dbz's power will completely overwhelm them in the end.

[TarkanX]

Although the part about Nam is true (he didn't have any ki manipulation and yet he still almost beat Goku), you gotta realize that that was way back in the day, where everyones power levels were around <300. I'd stake Nam at about 20. However, unless you have superhuman speed and strength at the same level of the Z fighters, i doubt he'd win

Nam should be between 40-80


So its like a shield that hurts your opponent? Wouldn't that require a pretty good amount of energy to form and sustain?

Gill doesn't run out of energy


He can do the Seraph Wing repeatedly without any loss of energy?

Yep


That is not possible (at least in DBZ terms). The only reason Goku was able to fight Buu in the Buu Saga was because his BODY was given back to him. However, had his body not been given to him, he would have returned to earth as a ghost. Ghosts can't fight. Therefore, even if Gill's spirit is immortal, his body would die but his spirit would not go to the afterlife, and he would become a permanent ghost

Goku is not a deity, Gill is, if Gill's body dies, he can still fight with his soul, and he can go into other bodies.


DBZ against SF will be something to watch but i'd still say DBZ because it's just to obvious. Compare the attacks of all the SF characters with the DBZ and DBZ will win. Buu can take care of all the SF characters all by himself because he can't die.(He's still alive in DBGT as Ubuu)

Buu can waste most SFers no problem, most SFers. and Buu got reincarnated by the dragon balls, he died by the Chou Genki-dama.


DBGT against SF. SF lost this big time. The Dbgt characters are way to strong to lose this fight There almost invincible

DBGT doesnt coincide with the DB"Z"" storyline.


Now i don't wanna take up much time and post a lot of backup info because you can compare mentally. I've seen all the Sf movies and Episodes same with the DB series and seriously DBZ will win.

You can't take SF movies, and episodes into canon, nor DB"Z" episodes.


OTOKO MICHI: DAN most powerfull super, where he grab onto the person and sefl destruct himself with his KI !

To make the Capcom characters as good(almost as good) as Marvel characters, they had to weaken Marvel characters, and make the Capcom characters stronger than they are. So Dan was given an attack he isnt supposed to have.


and again, the TRAINING goku and vegeta had (400x gravity) isn't impossible to us human ! as goku AND vegeta started training under very lower gravity first and then came up and up until they reach those gravities !

Vegeta only took 300, and Goku took 100.


FAT BUU = good side

It would be better to say fat Buu is the The Fat evil Buu, Mr. Buu(good Buu) is the fat Good Buu, and Thin Buu(Evil Buu) is the skinny Evil Buu.


Speed:Lighting fast speed. And at that speed any punch or kick would be a knock out

No DB"Z" charcater travels at the speed of light.


Strength: Now these guys have a ton of power in their hands and legs. One punch from Vegeta or Goku would send someone like Akuma to his death.

Defense: The DBZ character would just stand there take all the hits and once the enemy is tired knock them out by Punch a hole through there stomach.


Almost any SF characters, and about Akuma, if they DB"Z" characters weren't toying with him, then yeah that would be true.


one question: if gill is a "god" and he is immortal, then, was he ever defeated? if he's immortal, then there is no need to continue this topic since he can never die. so if that is the case then sf would win (with 99% credit to gill's immortality of course).

Yeah he is, he did lose, but he wasn't trying at all. He lost to Alex to see Alex's potential, and lost to Yun and Yang so they can understand Gill's plan. He always plays with his opponents.


First off, SF characters don't use ki

That would mean Ryu can't do a hadouken, and everyone has ki, some have different types, Gen has ki, but he doesn't show it, since he is not a person that wants to use flashy techniques to waste energy.


Vegeta was much stronger when he started his gravity training, and he started at around 100x gravity and worked up to 400x

Vegeta only used 300x gravity, the 450x is filler.


Just because he's a god doesnt' mean he can't die. Kami-sama (Kami) is a god, and he died when Piccolo died. North Kaio-sama (King Kai) is a god, and he died when Cell self-destructed. Rou Dai-Kaioshin (the old Supreme Kai) is the super-god-of-all-gods from 15 centuries ago, and he died when he gave his life for Goku.

So you see, gods can die.

and even if Gill can't die, the Z fighters would kill everyone BUT Gill, then somehow lure Gill into the Room of Spirit and Time and blow up the outside of the room. That way, Gill would forever be trapped in a never-ending empty dimension

Though they are Gods, they aren't immortal, it's like the story of hercules, but he's a demi-god, they were never stated to be immortal, Gill has been stated to be immortal(his soul). And How could they lure Gill into the ROSAT? what ways? Gill would just increase the earths temperature, or decrease it. The ROSAT was 122 degress ferenheit(sp?) at most, and -40 degress ferenheit. They had a hard time with the weather(though It's not shown). Gill can increase the weather to 1000 degress ferenheit, and sheild himself from the weather.


I thought they were in the same league as XMEN

Marvel owns DB"Z", and SF, but lets not get off topic


Alright, it seems that we're getting no where, and I remembered to list the SF projectiles.


Ryu
--------
Hadoken - About the same temp as the human body(98.6 degress ferenheit). Feels like getting hit by a nice solid kick. Once hit by this, the damage stays for a very long time.

Shakunetsu Hadoken - The same temp as hot water. Not enough to burn clothes.

Shinkuu Hadouken(charged up) - 5 hadoukens.

Ken
----------
Hadoken - Neither hot nor cold. Feels like a nice solid punch. The damage doesn't stay like Ryu's.

Sakura
----------
Hadoken - Is very warm, not as hot as Ken's. The effect varies on which type. Small - Feels like a hard slap. Medium - same as Ken's. Large - Same as Ryu's.

Shinkuu Hadouken - 5 Hadoukens(2 Ryu, 2 Ken, 1 Sakura)

Akuma
----------
Gou Hadoken - About the same temperature as the human body. Same kind as Ryu's but much greater in power and effect.

Gou Shakunetsu Hadoken - 3 burning Gou Hadokens

Messatsu Gou Hadou - 6-8 Gou Hadoukens

Dan
---------
Gadoken - Very warm. Feels like a slap.

Shinkuu Gadouken - 4 Gadoukens

Dhalsim
---------
Yoga Fire - Same temperature as boiling hot water. The damage feels kinda like the same feeling you get when you eat something very, very spicy.(Curry)

Sagat
--------
Tiger shot - The damage feels like getting mauled by a ferocious tiger. The temperature is freezing cold

Tiger Cannon - 5 Tiger shots

Chunli
--------
Kikoken - About the temperature of a warm bath. The hit doesn't feel like a solid hit but more of an effect that affects the whole body.

Kikoshou - 20 kokokens

Rose
--------
Soul Spark - Isn't cold or hot. The hit itself isn't hard at all but it makes the area it hit very numb.

Bison
--------
Psycho Shot - Very, very hot. And the hit will burn the area it hits instantly and makes it very numb.

[princevegetam]

sry, but where did you get this info from tarkan?

[TarkanX]

Someone named Saiki. He's from Japan, and he has connections with Capcom fo Japan. There's also the Capcom books which tails about every detail of every character, but its in Japanese.

[Tidus2K2]

Tark we've already had a debate on this. So overall who do you think will win SF or DB"Z".

Goku vs Akuma
Vegeta vs Ryu
Gohan vs Ken
Trunks vs Bison
Piccolo vs Zangief

JUst these one's for now.

dragonballz ofcourse...because marvel or sf characters cant even fly ..muhahahaha


:p

[TarkanX]

Tark we've already had a debate on this. So overall who do you think will win SF or DB"Z".

Goku vs Akuma
Vegeta vs Ryu
Gohan vs Ken
Trunks vs Bison
Piccolo vs Zangief

JUst these one's for now.

Overall you say... SF wins but what you listed....


Goku over Akuma

Vegeta wasting Ryu no prob.

Gohan wasting Ken no prob.

Shin Bison(I believe thats what you mean) over Trunks

Piccolo owning Zangief without trying

[Roll]

dragonballz ofcourse...because marvel or sf characters cant even fly ..muhahahaha


:p
Wasn't it supposed to be a ground-only battle in the beginning?

[Tantum]

Tark we've already had a debate on this. So overall who do you think will win SF or DB"Z".

Goku vs Akuma
Vegeta vs Ryu
Gohan vs Ken
Trunks vs Bison
Piccolo vs Zangief

JUst these one's for now.

Overall you say... SF wins but what you listed....


Goku over Akuma

Vegeta wasting Ryu no prob.

Gohan wasting Ken no prob.

Shin Bison(I believe thats what you mean) over Trunks

Piccolo owning Zangief without trying
Lennox Lewis over Akuma

Wladimir Klitschko wasting Ryu no prob.

Jameel McCline wasting Ken no prob.

Evander Holyfield over Bison

54 year old George Foreman owning Zangief without trying

ohhhhh, its SF vs DBZ, my bad...

[Nantuko Joe]

Though they are Gods, they aren't immortal, it's like the story of hercules, but he's a demi-god, they were never stated to be immortal, Gill has been stated to be immortal(his soul). And How could they lure Gill into the ROSAT? what ways? Gill would just increase the earths temperature, or decrease it. The ROSAT was 122 degress ferenheit(sp?) at most, and -40 degress ferenheit. They had a hard time with the weather(though It's not shown). Gill can increase the weather to 1000 degress ferenheit, and sheild himself from the weather.

I never said anything about weather. What I said was that if Gill was inside the ROSAT, and the DBZ fighters destroyed the building itself, or even just the door to the ROSAT, then GIll would be trapped forever in a never-ending dimension. Now, it IS true that if they did this they would not be able to KILL all SF fighters, but if Gill is removed from the fight, and everyone else dies, and GIll can't do anything to help in the fight, then DBZ would win

[TarkanX]

I never said anything about weather. What I said was that if Gill was inside the ROSAT, and the DBZ fighters destroyed the building itself, or even just the door to the ROSAT, then GIll would be trapped forever in a never-ending dimension. Now, it IS true that if they did this they would not be able to KILL all SF fighters, but if Gill is removed from the fight, and everyone else dies, and GIll can't do anything to help in the fight, then DBZ would win

Then tell me.... how will the DB"Z" characters force Gill into the ROSAT?

[Nantuko Joe]

Well, first off, Gill doesn't have INFINITE power, does he? They could corner him, then pummel him with blasts, forcing him back and (if aimed correctly) into the doorway into the ROSAT.

Or, they could get him really angry at someone, and in his anger he would follow the other person around trying to kill him, and the other person could fly into the ROSAT, Gill would follow him, then the person would exit really quick and blow up the door.

Or, they could get someone who can use mind control techniques to lull Gill into the ROSAT.

Or, they could simply cripple his body with some form of attack and throw him in there

Or, they could get Buruma to strip naked and lure the pervert into there (j/k)

[princevegetam]

Tark we've already had a debate on this. So overall who do you think will win SF or DB"Z".

Goku vs Akuma
Vegeta vs Ryu
Gohan vs Ken
Trunks vs Bison
Piccolo vs Zangief

JUst these one's for now.
get some real SF fighters plz.

get ppl like:

oro
gill
twelve
shin akuma
shin bison

[Tidus2K2]

Those are the original SF characters.

[princevegetam]

you wanna get technical with me?

first of all tarkan x never said anything about having ONLY "original" character match ups.

and second, zangeif, akuma and bision aren't original. only ryu and ken were in the ORIGINAL sf game.

[Toon-Ryu]

Ok i havent read all of the pages. But I would say Dbz because have you ever Saw Veggetoo(dont know how to spell but its Goku and Vegeta Fused) he could beat up any Sf Character within 30min.

[ajtimbs]

sf will win not whatever he is

[Nexusgod]

this topic has gone on to long. STOP IT![img:post_uid13]http://www.gamegen.com/fightgen/characters/akuma-c-combo.gif[/img:post_uid13] :angryfire:

[SBYRD5]

Nah, Nantuko Joe,and TarkanX have been debating in this topic of TarkanX for the longest.Also this may be the best ORIGNAL topic on Dragonball vs Street Fighter manga only.So this topic will recieve input by everyone.From veteran members to n e w b i e s.Actually a topic of this level should be put somewhere special.

When I think about it.this topic was going to be perseved for a special purspose...that is tell Dan told Joe the link to get it.
So here we are.So if you don't like this topic my friend please feel free not to post here.If you have a question about the manga of these two shows this is a perfect time to ask it.

Nantuko Joe,and TarkanX seem to know there mangas fairly well.
------------------------------------------------------------

I have a question TarkanX/Nantuko Joe.

Ok I have to ask aquestion about the Human earthling Yamcha,an a link to Son Goku.

Ok, I recall Yamcha using the kai attack "Spirit Bomb".I would like to know first is this the same "Spirit Bomb" as Son Goku's.
If that is the case would Yamcha be able to use the "Spirit Bomb" at a level of strenght some what like Goku's.If he can then he could also be a member of the Z fighters that could defeat a SF character.Also Yamcha's "Spirit Bomb" has the ability to be controled by the user.

Please don't flame me I give this deep thought.

[princevegetam]

magnas? i think you mean manga. well, dbz is a manga but SF isn't.

that attack yamcha used was not called spirit bomb. it's another fliped up part in the american version. it's a different attack.

[TarkanX]

Well, first off, Gill doesn't have INFINITE power, does he? They could corner him, then pummel him with blasts, forcing him back and (if aimed correctly) into the doorway into the ROSAT.


The ROSAT is in the sky, and Gill is immortal, enough said...


Or, they could get him really angry at someone, and in his anger he would follow the other person around trying to kill him, and the other person could fly into the ROSAT, Gill would follow him, then the person would exit really quick and blow up the door.

Why follow, when you can just heat the weather, and melt your foe...


Or, they could get someone who can use mind control techniques to lull Gill into the ROSAT.

THen why didn't the DB"Z" characters use this in other saga's, besides, Gill is not human, or mortal, though an immortal's mind(IMO), and a god's mind(DB"Z" wise) can be controlled, it'd probably take a lot of time before they can do that to Gill, and by then, Gill would use his Pyro/Cryo attacks to brun/freeze the opponent.


Or, they could simply cripple his body with some form of attack and throw him in there

Like Gotenks attacks.... WHen they try to use a crippling attack, Gill would then shield himself using Seraphic Wing.



Ok, I recall Yamcha using the kai attack "Spirit Bomb".I would like to know first is this the same "Spirit Bomb" as Son Goku's.
If that is the case would Yamcha be able to use the "Spirit Bomb" at a level of strenght some what like Goku's.If he can then he could also be a member of the Z fighters that could defeat a SF character.Also Yamcha's "Spirit Bomb" has the ability to be controled by the user.


American filler, that part never happened in the manga.

[raidus]

Well based upon the stories, it is almost impossible for one to think that SF could win... if you went on pure fighting ability, I believe that DBZ would be nothing compared to the SF's, but based on the fact all DBZ does is pump power levels to overly HUGE numbers, where as SF doesnt even have power levels, you cant really compare other than saying DBZ would pummle them.

[princevegetam]

gill's immortality would win this fight :(

[Nantuko Joe]

this topic has gone on to long. STOP IT!

Your a frigging nOOb. Who are you to tell us to stop it?

If that is the case would Yamcha be able to use the "Spirit Bomb" at a level of strenght some what like Goku's.If he can then he could also be a member of the Z fighters that could defeat a SF character.Also Yamcha's "Spirit Bomb" has the ability to be controled by the user.

No, that's simply another American dub. Goku's "Spirit Bomb" is actually called "Genki Dama". This attack gathers energy from all organic life within a planet or planetary system. It then focuses this energy into a ball, which has the power to obliterate anything with an "evil" ki.

Yamucha's "Spirit Bomb" isn't that at all. It's merely a ki attack he uses. He forms a somewhat-strong ball of energy and throws it, then uses his powers to control where it goes.

The ROSAT is in the sky, and Gill is immortal, enough said

I dont' get it? :(

THen why didn't the DB"Z" characters use this in other saga's, besides, Gill is not human, or mortal, though an immortal's mind(IMO), and a god's mind(DB"Z" wise) can be controlled, it'd probably take a lot of time before they can do that to Gill, and by then, Gill would use his Pyro/Cryo attacks to brun/freeze the opponent.

Does Gill have ANY evil in his heart? Because if so, he can be controlled by Babidi (though Gill would prolly break free of the control and then have even more power, and that would be BAD.

So I guess you've got me.

But if Gill is immortal in SF, then that means that in the game, he can't be defeated at all?

gill's immortality would win this fight

You apparently haven't been reading me and Tarkan's debating...

[princevegetam]

uhh... yes i have.

if gill's immortal, he can't die. so it would be like the last man standing would win. even if he IS mind controlled, he won't be under that condition for long. gill is a god. plain and simple. not one of those weak dbz gods, but a real god. a god who is immortal and has a limitless supply of energy.

[TarkanX]

I dont' get it?

Okay, what specific area are they fighting in?


Does Gill have ANY evil in his heart? Because if so, he can be controlled by Babidi (though Gill would prolly break free of the control and then have even more power, and that would be BAD

I'm not quite sure if he does, Gill is said to bring light, and darkness, good and evil into one to create peace for the world. He does some bad things, but in one of his quotes, he says "My methods may seem harsh contrast to my true intentions".


But if Gill is immortal in SF, then that means that in the game, he can't be defeated at all?


You mean beat him winning 2 rounds, yeah of course you can do that, but we aren't really talking about gameplay, since the game down-grades what Gill can really do.

Gill has a super called resurection in which if his super bar is full, and he gets KOed, he'll resurect all of his life, unless you hit him, then he'll stop resurecting, but of course, that's gameplay wise.

[Nantuko Joe]

Okay, what specific area are they fighting in?

high in the atmosphere, in the sky

I'm not quite sure if he does, Gill is said to bring light, and darkness, good and evil into one to create peace for the world. He does some bad things, but in one of his quotes, he says "My methods may seem harsh contrast to my true intentions".

So he DOES have evil in his heart, and therefore can indeed be controlled with Babidi's power or crippled with Goku's Genki Dama (given the proper amount of time)

You mean beat him winning 2 rounds, yeah of course you can do that, but we aren't really talking about gameplay, since the game down-grades what Gill can really do.

Gill has a super called resurection in which if his super bar is full, and he gets KOed, he'll resurect all of his life, unless you hit him, then he'll stop resurecting, but of course, that's gameplay wise.

I see...

I've come to a conclusion concerning Gill: THe DBZ characters prolly would defeat all SF fighters except Gill. Gill would prolly even take down many, many of the DBZ fighters. I think that IF Gill has infinite power and IF he can repeatedly perform the Seraph Wing without tiring and IF he can fight using his soul and not his body, then...it would be a draw.

All SF characters would be killed by the DBZ characters, and the surviving DBZ characters would be killed by Gill except...

Muten Roshi. He is immortal, he cannot die. Therefore, no matter what happens, Gill and Roshi would remain. Sure, Gill has more power than Roshi, but since Roshi can't DIE, and Gill can't DIE, it would end up as a draw

[princevegetam]

uhhh... huh? is muten roshi that turtle or master roshi. and where did you get the info that muten roshi was immortal?

[Gotenks13]

Sorry Joe, but Master Roshi/Muten Roshi/Turtle Master isn't immortal. He drank from the Fountain of Youth, which only much farther enhances your life span. About Gill, Garlic Jr. was immortl, yet he was still defeated. So he wasn't REALLY in DBZ, but close enough. If any one of the Z fighters could create a Dead Zone (which I doubt), or one of the kais (possibly), Gill would be locked in that dimension. If he got out, one of the stronger Z Fighters would take him in the hyperbolic time chamber, go really far, use their superior speed (if Goku, he'll use the IT) and exit. Then they would destroy the entrance and Gill would be considered dead because of his uselessness in the battle.

[mysticveggeto]

right\

[Roll]

Sorry Joe, but Master Roshi/Muten Roshi/Turtle Master isn't immortal. He drank from the Fountain of Youth, which only much farther enhances your life span. About Gill, Garlic Jr. was immortl, yet he was still defeated. So he wasn't REALLY in DBZ, but close enough. If any one of the Z fighters could create a Dead Zone (which I doubt), or one of the kais (possibly), Gill would be locked in that dimension. If he got out, one of the stronger Z Fighters would take him in the hyperbolic time chamber, go really far, use their superior speed (if Goku, he'll use the IT) and exit. Then they would destroy the entrance and Gill would be considered dead because of his uselessness in the battle.
...Good answer and argument, but the dead zone is just a filler and probably never happened in the manga's, so I don't know if it counts or not. But That's still a good argument. But about that hyperbolic time chamber idea, I don't see how they would be able to take him into the hyperbolic time chamber. I mean, how would they even be able to get near him with all of his attacks, and how would they bring him in the hyperbolic time chamber. Plus, Goku wouldn't be able to go into the hyperbolic time chamber since he went in there twice already, so they'd have to find another person.

[SBYRD5]

TarkanX how does it fell to be a year,and two months old in this forum? :(

[princevegetam]

hey, SBYRD, don't post irrelevant posts here.

anyways, gotenks' idea would not work, cause as roll said, it never happened in the manga and tarkanx said all arguements have to be from the manga. and it would be practically impossible for dbz characters to get gill into the time chamber. hey, but wait, didn't nantuko say something about mr.popo being immortal?

[SBYRD5]

Funny Princevegetam you wanted this topic closed,but ok.

I have a question.

Akuma or Gouki has the Symbol of immortaliy marked on his back.Is Akuma immortal?This could explain how he was able to perform the "Raging Demon" so many times with out death to himself. If he is then Gill and him could also defeat the DBZ fighters.

[princevegetam]

no he's not immortal, he's just powerful, that immortal sign thing is suppose to look cool

[Nantuko Joe]

uhhh... huh? is muten roshi that turtle or master roshi. and where did you get the info that muten roshi was immortal?

Muten Roshi is Master Roshi, the turtle os Umi-game. And I got it from a reliable site...and i also think they said something like that in DB

Sorry Joe, but Master Roshi/Muten Roshi/Turtle Master isn't immortal. He drank from the Fountain of Youth, which only much farther enhances your life span. About Gill, Garlic Jr. was immortl, yet he was still defeated. So he wasn't REALLY in DBZ, but close enough. If any one of the Z fighters could create a Dead Zone (which I doubt), or one of the kais (possibly), Gill would be locked in that dimension. If he got out, one of the stronger Z Fighters would take him in the hyperbolic time chamber, go really far, use their superior speed (if Goku, he'll use the IT) and exit. Then they would destroy the entrance and Gill would be considered dead because of his uselessness in the battle.

Actually...no. Muten Roshi drank a magical potion that made him immortal. And you can't reference Garlic Jr., since he's not in the manga and therefore is anime-only filler

Goku wouldn't be able to go into the hyperbolic time chamber since he went in there twice already, so they'd have to find another person.

What? Being in there twice means nothing, you can go in as many times as you want.

anyways, gotenks' idea would not work, cause as roll said, it never happened in the manga and tarkanx said all arguements have to be from the manga. and it would be practically impossible for dbz characters to get gill into the time chamber. hey, but wait, didn't nantuko say something about mr.popo being immortal?

Yes! That slipped my mind! Popo is also immortal, and cannot die. Therefore, that would leave two immortals on DBZ's side and one on SF's side. Although Gill has more POWER than Roshi and Popo, he still can't kill them.

[princevegetam]

this is not turning out to be much of a fight, it's like, the side that has the most immortals win.

[Gotenks13]

Well, lets just leave the immortals out of this fight...or just take away their immortal status. Then lets see who'll win...

[Nantuko Joe]

Well, lets just leave the immortals out of this fight...or just take away their immortal status. Then lets see who'll win...
GOod point. If Gill, Popo and Roshi were NOT immortal, than I think Gill prolly can be overcome by the attacks of the DBZ fighters.

However, we can't simply change SF and DBZ history, so the immortal thing stays

[Dan Hibiki]

SBYRD5: The Shun Goku Satsu sends both the user and the target to Hell. Akuma knows how to defend himself in Hell, so he can survive it repeatedly.

[Gotenks13]

GOod point.

I'm happy with that... :biggrin:

However, we can't simply change SF and DBZ history, so the immortal thing stays

In this case, no one can win the fight...unless you say DB"Z". because of the 2 immortals against SF's 1 immortal

[Nantuko Joe]

If you wanna do it that way...then I guess DBZ still wins, 2-1

[TarkanX]

high in the atmosphere, in the sky

Gill could just use his temperature skills to freeze, or burn the Z cast.


So he DOES have evil in his heart, and therefore can indeed be controlled with Babidi's power or crippled with Goku's Genki Dama (given the proper amount of time)

Not necessarily, though he does things that people would call bad, he only does it to get his point through. Goku does things bad which is fighting, Gill does the same, is Goku good, yes, is Gill good, yes, and I doubt Babidi could control Gill.



All SF characters would be killed by the DBZ characters, and the surviving DBZ characters would be killed by Gill except...

Muten Roshi. He is immortal, he cannot die. Therefore, no matter what happens, Gill and Roshi would remain. Sure, Gill has more power than Roshi, but since Roshi can't DIE, and Gill can't DIE, it would end up as a draw


Kamesennin went with the others after Buu destroyed the earth(for whatever reason), Though they are immortal, Gill can still KO Kamesennin, or burn off his skin, or whatever.... So Gill would still win.


Akuma or Gouki has the Symbol of immortaliy marked on his back.Is Akuma immortal?This could explain how he was able to perform the "Raging Demon" so many times with out death to himself. If he is then Gill and him could also could defeat the DBZ fighters.

I doubt he's immortal, notice the grey/white streaks on his hair.


no he's not immortal, he's just powerful, that immortal sign thing is suppose to look cool

He has it at birth, not to look cool, only the people that have Satsui No Hadou have those kind of signs.

Gouken- nothingness

Akuma- Beyond human

Ryu- Destruction

Goutetsu- not known


What? Being in there twice means nothing, you can go in as many times as you want.

No you can't, only for 48 hours.


Yes! That slipped my mind! Popo is also immortal, and cannot die. Therefore, that would leave two immortals on DBZ's side and one on SF's side. Although Gill has more POWER than Roshi and Popo, he still can't kill them.

Popo can't do ####... what can he do? Wine all over the place that he's about to get the living #### beat out of him?


If you wanna do it that way...then I guess DBZ still wins, 2-1

no, even with their immortality, Gill can still KO them.

[Gotenks13]

I still haven't gotten my list of DBZ fighters and who on the SF team they would beat.

no, even with their immortality, Gill can still KO them.

If all we were talking about was KOing, I think that DBZ would still win. There are more than enough Super Saiyans to wear out, and eventually KO Gill. Gohan has/had his Mystic form, then there are SSJ1, SSJ2, and SSJ3. And don't forget about fusions :buttrock:. I'm sure I've heard you say that SSJ3 Gotenks, SSJ3 Goku, and Veggeto can move the speed of light.

[Nantuko Joe]

Tarkan's back. Finally, some REAL debating...

No you can't, only for 48 hours.

You can only be in there for 48-hour increments. However, after the 48 hours ends, you can go back in for another 48 hours, then that ends and another, and so on and so forth. There's a limit to how much time you can spend in there, not how many times you can enter there

Popo can't do ####... what can he do? Wine all over the place that he's about to get the living #### beat out of him?

Probably, but he still would not DIE. Therefore, Gill would not be able to KILL him, and it would end as a draw

no, even with their immortality, Gill can still KO them.

We need to decide what they have to do to win this fight: kill or merely KO. If it's only KO, then everyone (including myself and Tarkan) can stop with the "immortal, won't die" thing, because I'm pretty sure Gill can be knocked unconscious. In that case, it's anyone's game, because I'm pretty sure everyone but Gill would be KOd (if not killed) by the Z fighters, while GIll would KO many DBZ fighters. Therefore, it's a throw-up

However, if it's kill, then I say it's a draw, because there are two immortals on DBZ side and one on SF side.

[TarkanX]

If all we were talking about was KOing, I think that DBZ would still win. There are more than enough Super Saiyans to wear out, and eventually KO Gill. Gohan has/had his Mystic form, then there are SSJ1, SSJ2, and SSJ3. And don't forget about fusions . I'm sure I've heard you say that SSJ3 Gotenks, SSJ3 Goku, and Veggeto can move the speed of light.

there were many SSJ's, but they couldn't take down Cell(not including SSJ2 Gohan), same goes for Gill, and no one can move at the speed of light, Joe proved it, the closest is SSJ2 Vegetto though.


You can only be in there for 48-hour increments. However, after the 48 hours ends, you can go back in for another 48 hours, then that ends and another, and so on and so forth. There's a limit to how much time you can spend in there, not how many times you can enter there

hmm... that explains when Goku and Gohan couldve been there for more time(they had 3 months remaining), and then couldve gone in again, even though Goku went in their as a kid. But Goku and Gohan went out because they reached the maximum potential of a SSJ.


Probably, but he still would not DIE. Therefore, Gill would not be able to KILL him, and it would end as a draw


He can still KO Popo, or burn off his skin or whatever.


We need to decide what they have to do to win this fight: kill or merely KO. If it's only KO, then everyone (including myself and Tarkan) can stop with the "immortal, won't die" thing, because I'm pretty sure Gill can be knocked unconscious. In that case, it's anyone's game, because I'm pretty sure everyone but Gill would be KOd (if not killed) by the Z fighters, while GIll would KO many DBZ fighters. Therefore, it's a throw-up


Yeah, he can be KOed

*heals himself using some of resurections powers*

he comes back for more


However, if it's kill, then I say it's a draw, because there are two immortals on DBZ side and one on SF side.

2 weak immortals(not saying Kamesennin is weak, but hes not as powerful compared to the Z fighters) vs. an immortal with godly powers. It obvious Gill wins.

[princevegetam]

yes, gill's immortality helps him win the the end. and sf win with 100% credit going to gill.

[Gotenks13]

Yeah, he can be KOed

*heals himself using some of resurections powers*

he comes back for more



I doubt that even Gill could heal himself when KOed.

And as for Joe, are you saing that when Tarkan was gone, no one here could debate with you? Huh? Huh? I thought I knew you Joe, but obviosly, I don't...*sniff**sniff*...

[Nantuko Joe]

In this case, we can disregard Gill's immortality as an advantage, because being immortal means jack #### if we're just talking about KOs. In this case, I'm pretty sure that Gill can be KOd by either SSJ3 Gotenks or SSJ2 Vegetto. Sure, Gill could come close to KILLING either of them, but since the DBZ fighters would eliminate all other SF fighters without a tremendous amount of trouble (except for Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu), I'm pretty sure that Gill could be teamed against for the KO

[TarkanX]

yes, gill's immortality helps him win the the end. and sf win with 100% credit going to gill.

Twelve is also a good candidate, he can change into the opponent, copying all the opponents attacks, except mystic attacks like Shun Goku Satsu, etc... Twelve is just like Buu, imagine Buu, hardly takes damage.


I doubt that even Gill could heal himself when KOed.

Play SF3, fight against Gill, KO him when his super bar is at max, though that si game play, he can do the same for the storyline.



In this case, I'm pretty sure that Gill can be KOd by either SSJ3 Gotenks or SSJ2 Vegetto. Sure, Gill could come close to KILLING either of them, but since the DBZ fighters would eliminate all other SF fighters without a tremendous amount of trouble (except for Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu), I'm pretty sure that Gill could be teamed against for the KO

Yeah, almost all the SF characters would be quickly eliminated while the Z characters are hardly using any of their powers. But More than one SF can hold of the DB"Z" characters

Gill(of course)
Shin Akuma
Charlie(maybe)
Dhalsim
Gen(maybe)
Shin Bison
Oro
Twelve
Urien(though most likely not)


Anyways, I'd like to point out. In DB"Z", skill doesn't matter in a fight, it's always power level, and speed. There was never a time in DB"Z" where someone used skill to beat the other person.

In SF, it's all skill, fighting potential does count, but it's mainly skill that determines the fight, that's why Zangief can't beat Ryu. He's physically stronger, but Ryu has more skill, and fighting potential.

[Dan Hibiki]

A note on Vegetto: Vegetto never goes Super Saiyajin 2. He only powers up to Super Saiyajin. My only guess is that Vegetto realized that he didn't need to go further, because it is evident in the Super Buu battle that Vegetto absolutely owned Super Buu.

On the note of the Room of Spirit and Time: you can only be in there for a total of 48 hours in your lifetime. Goku spent a bit in the room when he was a child, and spent less than a year the second time. My argument for this, though, is that Vegeta is told by Piccolo that he can't spend all that time in the RoSaT before the Cell Games or the door'd disappear. If it were a technicality that he had to come out and go back in, Piccolo would've told him.

Anybody with a good deal of evil in their heart absolutely gets owned by Akuma (or Shin Akuma, same guy, just giving a damn). Shun Goku Satsu! Free ticket to Hell. You also have to consider Akuma's invincible teleport. He could just teleport all over the place and nail them in the back with the Shun Goku Satsu.

I further think that Akuma is immortal in the sense that old age can't kill him. Look at Muten Roshi, the wrinkled and bald immortal showing his age, for instance... just 'cuz you're immortal doesn't mean you can't show your age at all. Also, the world of Street Fighter is one where sheer determination and training can let a person endure deep sea pressures and need no air for hours on end, and sink an island with a single powerful chop (both Akuma, see SFIII:3S Akuma ending and SFA2 official story respectively). I hardly think Akuma being immortal against natural death is a stretch in this case.

On Gill: yep, Gill can revive himself. "RESURRECTION!" he just gets up and poof! There's his health bar again! And also Gill could take out any DBZ fighter with his insanely powerful and all-reaching Seraphic Wing attack. There's no escaping it, you can block it, yes, but it is the power of a God on Earth... there's no denying Gill.

[Nantuko Joe]

Twelve is also a good candidate, he can change into the opponent, copying all the opponents attacks, except mystic attacks like Shun Goku Satsu, etc... Twelve is just like Buu, imagine Buu, hardly takes damage.

please define "mystic attacks". Can he gain the ability to form a Genki Dama or go SSJ? And just as Buu was eventually defeated, so could 12

Play SF3, fight against Gill, KO him when his super bar is at max, though that si game play, he can do the same for the storyline.

Yes, however, in real life, there's no "super bar" at the bottom of the screen. In real life, there would need to be some kind of measure of "super bar power" or something.

Anyways, I'd like to point out. In DB"Z", skill doesn't matter in a fight, it's always power level, and speed. There was never a time in DB"Z" where someone used skill to beat the other person.

Piccolo fused with Nail vs. Furiza Form 2. Although Furiza was physically more powerful than Piccolo, Piccolo was more agile, and also was more intelligent and had a more cunning fighting style. That is why Furiza had to transform to beat him.

Yes, it is true that power levels do account for like 90% of the fighting in DBZ, but fighting style also counts for something.

In SF, it's all skill, fighting potential does count, but it's mainly skill that determines the fight, that's why Zangief can't beat Ryu. He's physically stronger, but Ryu has more skill, and fighting potential.

However, it's also because of Zangief's bulk that he's also very slow as compared to Ryu. Ryu, being smaller and more compact, is more agile. It's kind of like this:

Ryu=Perfect Cell
Zangief=USSJ Trunks

like in DBZ, USSJ Trunks was stronger than Cell, but wasn't as fast. That's why he couldn't hit him.

So speed and power also have something to do with Zangief losing against Ryu

On the note of the Room of Spirit and Time: you can only be in there for a total of 48 hours in your lifetime. Goku spent a bit in the room when he was a child, and spent less than a year the second time. My argument for this, though, is that Vegeta is told by Piccolo that he can't spend all that time in the RoSaT before the Cell Games or the door'd disappear. If it were a technicality that he had to come out and go back in, Piccolo would've told him.

The door only disappears if you stay inside for more than 48 hours STRAIGHT. Remember when Goku and Gohan were training for the Cell Games, they went in for two days, and came out, and Goku said that they could have gone back inside to train more, but wanted to spend more time on earth. However, in one's lifetime, they can train as long as they want in the ROSAT, provided that it doesn't exceed 48 hours straight. They CAN INDEED simply exit and go back in again.

Anybody with a good deal of evil in their heart absolutely gets owned by Akuma (or Shin Akuma, same guy, just giving a damn). Shun Goku Satsu! Free ticket to Hell. You also have to consider Akuma's invincible teleport. He could just teleport all over the place and nail them in the back with the Shun Goku Satsu.

[colo=green]I've already defended DBZ against the SHun Goku Satsu attack, you're going to have to go back a few pages and read up on it.

And as far as his teleport goes: this IS a fight, right? That's like saying "Goku won't have to fight, he'll just SHunkan Idou all over the place and Kamehameha him in the back".

And according to you, the SHun Goku Satsu works only if there is evil in the opponent. None of the Z fighters are evil. Therefore, you just dug youself into a hole and can't get back out. According to what you said, the Shun Goku Satsu is innafective against the Z fighters[/color]

I further think that Akuma is immortal in the sense that old age can't kill him. Look at Muten Roshi, the wrinkled and bald immortal showing his age, for instance... just 'cuz you're immortal doesn't mean you can't show your age at all. Also, the world of Street Fighter is one where sheer determination and training can let a person endure deep sea pressures and need no air for hours on end, and sink an island with a single powerful chop (both Akuma, see SFIII:3S Akuma ending and SFA2 official story respectively). I hardly think Akuma being immortal against natural death is a stretch in this case.

Natural death simply means dying of old age. Your bodily functions and internal organs just become so old that they can't function anymore. That's just what "dying of natural causes" means. If he gets shot through the heart, he'll die.

In DBZ, the word "immortal" simply means "you can't die, you can't be killed, you can't go to the afterlife". In real life and in most other literary works, "immortal" simply means "you can't die unless you are killed by someone or something else".

On Gill: yep, Gill can revive himself. "RESURRECTION!" he just gets up and poof! There's his health bar again! And also Gill could take out any DBZ fighter with his insanely powerful and all-reaching Seraphic Wing attack. There's no escaping it, you can block it, yes, but it is the power of a God on Earth... there's no denying Gill.

Like I said, in real life there's no "super bar" or "health bar".

And KO means "knocked out", as in "knocked unconscious". "Unconscious" is like being dead, except your body is still alive. While unconscious, you can't dream or think.

Therefore, if one is knocked unconscious, they can only "wake up" via a long time or the intervention of someone else to help (smelling salts, water in the face).

Therefore, if Gill is KOd (ie, unconscious), then he wont' be able to use his powers to revive himself.

[Dan Hibiki]

On Twelve: Twelve is not a being of pure good (technically he doesn't even think freely), so he can't use the Genki Dama. He could change into a Saiyajin and use the Super Saiyajin transformations, though.

RoSaT argument: NO, you are wrong. You CANNOT keep on going in for 48 hour increments. Once again, if that were the case, Vegeta would have gone in and out, in and out, and been somewhere around 50 years old by the time the Cell Games came around.

Goku spent a bit in the RoSaT when he was a kid, and spent not even a year in it when he went in with Gohan. Of course he could have gone in for even longer! He still had a helluva lot of time left out of those 48 hours!

On Gill's Resurrection: You don't see a little Ki bar at the bottom of the screen during DBZ fights in the anime or at the bottoms of panels in the manga, do you? No. Resurrection is an ability that Gill possesses, and automatically kicks in when he has sufficient power and he is knocked out. It is his body's reaction to being unconscious, and his body revives him completely upon this occuring.

On the Ryu vs. Zangief comparison: Zangief has sufficient fast attacks. Zangief is relatively fast for somebody of his size, but he spent all of his free time wrestling bears while Ryu went ass-kicking world-wide against top-knotch competitors. Ryu gained more skill, and can beat Zangief with skill.

Shun Goku Satsu argument: to have the Shun Goku Satsu deal damage, the target must have done something evil in the past. The Shun Goku Satsu preys on the past evils of a person and torments them with them. To have it kill, the person needs to have done sufficient evil in the past. M. Bison/Vega was insta-killed by it. Further, though, if somebody who has done evil in the past has purified himself, such as Gen, the Shun Goku Satsu will be rendered useless.

On the Akuma being immortal argument: I know that doesn't matter here. I just through that in for the Hell of it as it came to my mind.

More on Gill: easily the most powerful attack that any Street Fighter has is the Seraphic Wing of Gill's. The Shun Goku Satsu comes close, but it is too conditional to be the best. The Seraphic Wing hits ANYTHING around Gill and does absolutely insane damage.

New Argument for Akuma: Tensou Kaireki Jin. This is the attack that Akuma learns at the end of Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike. He raises his hand and lets loose one powerful chop as his signature purple energy flies from the point of impact, dealing more damage than the Shun Goku Satsu. Also, this attack is not conditional like the Shun Goku Satsu, making it his most powerful tool against the Z Warriors.

[princevegetam]

ROSAT:

you CAN go in for more than 48 hours if you come out and go back in. vegeta would not have been 50 years old because other people went in there too (piccolo, trunks, etc).

ryu vs zangief: zangief is not fast. maybe faster than he's suppose to be, but he is not fast compared to ryu. ryu beats zangief by using some ki, speed and skills.

Tensou Kaireki Jin: since it destroyed an island, i suppose it's pretty powerful, but that weakling frieza could do the same thing with his finger beam (it moves faster too, cause vegeta was the only who could see the beam move).

and dbz ppl don't use skill because they've gotten past that. a martial artist can only learn a certain amount of skill, but after they've reached the maximum skill level possible, they move on to ki manipulation. which is what dbz characters are doing.

[Dan Hibiki]

RoSaT: THINK ABOUT IT! Vegeta said that he'd take all of the remaining days in the RoSaT, so he WOULD have been in there 'till he was reaching a mid-life crisis!

Tensou Kaireki Jin: Akuma didn't destroy the island with that. He just used a powerful, standard chop to do it. He didn't even know Tensou Kaireki Jin in SFA2.

[TarkanX]

A note on Vegetto: Vegetto never goes Super Saiyajin 2. He only powers up to Super Saiyajin. My only guess is that Vegetto realized that he didn't need to go further, because it is evident in the Super Buu battle that Vegetto absolutely owned Super Buu

he went SSJ2, he has lightning around him, and really spiked up hair.


please define "mystic attacks". Can he gain the ability to form a Genki Dama or go SSJ? And just as Buu was eventually defeated, so could 12


Attacks that are very hard to do, you need harsh training to do them, like shun goku satsu, kongou kokuretsuzan, etc....


Yes, however, in real life, there's no "super bar" at the bottom of the screen. In real life, there would need to be some kind of measure of "super bar power" or something.

But I said before he can do the same in the storyline, just like in the game.


Piccolo fused with Nail vs. Furiza Form 2. Although Furiza was physically more powerful than Piccolo, Piccolo was more agile, and also was more intelligent and had a more cunning fighting style. That is why Furiza had to transform to beat him.

Yes, it is true that power levels do account for like 90% of the fighting in DBZ, but fighting style also counts for something.

They were almost even, so it wouldn't have mattered.


And according to you, the SHun Goku Satsu works only if there is evil in the opponent. None of the Z fighters are evil. Therefore, you just dug youself into a hole and can't get back out. According to what you said, the Shun Goku Satsu is innafective against the Z fighters

It works on any soul, unless they have deity status, like Gill, or they release their soul. the Z fighters have bad in their hearts, but it's not noticeable, they have done a sin by killing people, so the shun goku satsu can be used.


Therefore, if Gill is KOd (ie, unconscious), then he wont' be able to use his powers to revive himself.

His body revives himself by defualt if he is KOed, or whatever....


On Twelve: Twelve is not a being of pure good (technically he doesn't even think freely), so he can't use the Genki Dama. He could change into a Saiyajin and use the Super Saiyajin transformations, though.

True


RoSaT: THINK ABOUT IT! Vegeta said that he'd take all of the remaining days in the RoSaT, so he WOULD have been in there 'till he was reaching a mid-life crisis!

Vegeta didn't go back into the RoSat because he reached the max level of a SSJ, or very close to it, theres no point in going back to the rosat if youve reached your limit at your strongest form(at the time).

[Dan Hibiki]

Recall that Vegeta said that he would take the remaining days before Piccolo pointed out that the room would close.

[princevegetam]

i saw that episode of dbz where vegeta talks about continued training in the ROSAT for over 5 times (just like i do with any other dbz episode) and i SPECIFICALLY remember him saying that he gets more more than the other fighters, but he never spent the ENTIRE time in there. piccolo trunks and others also spent time in there as well.

[Bunmi]

oh my god you freaks dbz would win sf is like martial arts in real life ryu and ken trained under gouken only they have energy blasts the only i could be just like ryu with a black belt in karate but not the blast now dbz does have martial arts but improoved not real life i am makeing no sense but i'll try they got the dragonballs and everything sf is real life newyork :S dbz is more advanced if you think about it .... oh and anyway tell me the sf movies out i want to go rent em who knows


All the SF ANIMATION OR A SITE TO GET EM ON REPLY NOW :laugh: :biggrin:

[Dan Hibiki]

princevegetam, your lack of paying attention to logic astounds me. He, as well as the others, COULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THERE FOR MORE THAN 48 HOURS IN THEIR LIFETIME! END OF STORY! NOW I'M GOING TO LOOK FOR PROOFS ON THE NET TO MAKE YOU LISTEN!

[princevegetam]

oh man, i made so many typos.

and how is it illogical?

if you spend more than 48 hours in there, the door is gone. but if you come out and go back in, the 48 hour time limit starts all over again.

[Dan Hibiki]

It is illogical because it has been said that the time limit is 48 hours in a person's lifetime! That is why!

[princevegetam]

where does it say that???!

piccolo just said that you can't be in the ROSAT for more than 48 hours. he never said you can't go back in. if you couldn't why did the z fighters plan out who will get to return into the ROSAT after cell announced his games?

[Dan Hibiki]

They had only been in there for one day of the two days that they had.

[princevegetam]

is that why piccolo could go in the ROSAT with gotenks, after he trained in there for 2 days?

[Dan Hibiki]

Piccolo hadn't used all of his time. He probably had a few months leeway.

[Nantuko Joe]

RoSaT argument: NO, you are wrong. You CANNOT keep on going in for 48 hour increments. Once again, if that were the case, Vegeta would have gone in and out, in and out, and been somewhere around 50 years old by the time the Cell Games came around.

It IS the case. If Vegeta wanted to, he could have. GOku even stated it

On Gill's Resurrection: You don't see a little Ki bar at the bottom of the screen during DBZ fights in the anime or at the bottoms of panels in the manga, do you? No. Resurrection is an ability that Gill possesses, and automatically kicks in when he has sufficient power and he is knocked out. It is his body's reaction to being unconscious, and his body revives him completely upon this occuring.

I see. SO unless a Z character can knock him out quickly and with surprise, Gill can't be KOd either?

Shun Goku Satsu argument: to have the Shun Goku Satsu deal damage, the target must have done something evil in the past. The Shun Goku Satsu preys on the past evils of a person and torments them with them. To have it kill, the person needs to have done sufficient evil in the past. M. Bison/Vega was insta-killed by it. Further, though, if somebody who has done evil in the past has purified himself, such as Gen, the Shun Goku Satsu will be rendered useless.

However, the SHun Goku Satsu won't affect ANY of the Z fighters. Vegeta, though he has done many past evils, has already come to grips and dealt with them both when he sacrificed his life to try and kill Buu and while in Hell. And Goku, Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and the others have done nothing evil for the SHun Goku Satsu to affect them

More on Gill: easily the most powerful attack that any Street Fighter has is the Seraphic Wing of Gill's. The Shun Goku Satsu comes close, but it is too conditional to be the best. The Seraphic Wing hits ANYTHING around Gill and does absolutely insane damage.

First off, Tarkan said taht the Seraph Wing was like an offensive shield, not a super-duper attack. And even so, an attack like that must drain away A LOT of energy from the user, and prolly can't be repeated many times

New Argument for Akuma: Tensou Kaireki Jin. This is the attack that Akuma learns at the end of Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike. He raises his hand and lets loose one powerful chop as his signature purple energy flies from the point of impact, dealing more damage than the Shun Goku Satsu. Also, this attack is not conditional like the Shun Goku Satsu, making it his most powerful tool against the Z Warriors.

However, this beam can also be countered by a beam of equal or greater power, such as a Shine Shine.


New argument for Gotenks: THe Galactic Donut. He forms a ring of energy that goes around the opponent and crushes him slowly, causing a tremendous amount of pain and damage.

and dbz ppl don't use skill because they've gotten past that. a martial artist can only learn a certain amount of skill, but after they've reached the maximum skill level possible, they move on to ki manipulation. which is what dbz characters are doing.

Good point

RoSaT: THINK ABOUT IT! Vegeta said that he'd take all of the remaining days in the RoSaT, so he WOULD have been in there 'till he was reaching a mid-life crisis!

Yes, he could have done it, should he wanted to. Therefore, it is possible to enter/exit repeatedly, though in a way you're destroying yourself in the process via old age

But I said before he can do the same in the storyline, just like in the game.

We're going to need some way to measure the amount of "super bar power" that these SF fighters are going to obtain during the battle

They were almost even, so it wouldn't have mattered.

I'd stake Furiza form 2 at around 1,200,000 and Piccolo at around 800,000. Thats a difference of 400,000, and that's a big difference

It works on any soul, unless they have deity status, like Gill, or they release their soul. the Z fighters have bad in their hearts, but it's not noticeable, they have done a sin by killing people, so the shun goku satsu can be used.

Goku has not killed a single person throughout DBZ. Gohan has only killed Cell, and Cell was evil, so the killing of Cell was justified. IF they kill evil people, than that is not evil, because it's justice. THerefore, the Satsu won't affect them (except maybe Vegeta)

Recall that Vegeta said that he would take the remaining days before Piccolo pointed out that the room would close.

THat was only if Vegeta did not leave after 48 hours. Vegeta intended to train in there for the 9 days STRAIGHT without leaving. However, it was then that Piccolo said that you could only stay in for 48 hours. As in, 48 hours at a time.

It is illogical because it has been said that the time limit is 48 hours in a person's lifetime! That is why!

Find me the manga page where it says that

[Roll]

[quote:post_uid4="Nantuko Joe"][quote:post_uid4]It is illogical because it has been said that the time limit is 48 hours in a person's lifetime! That is why! [/quote:post_uid4]

[color=green:post_uid4]Find me the manga page where it says that[/color:post_uid4][/quote:post_uid4]
Do you really want us to do that? I would, but it could take me a LONG while, considiring I don't have any manga's.

[TarkanX]

However, the SHun Goku Satsu won't affect ANY of the Z fighters. Vegeta, though he has done many past evils, has already come to grips and dealt with them both when he sacrificed his life to try and kill Buu and while in Hell. And Goku, Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and the others have done nothing evil for the SHun Goku Satsu to affect them


It doesn't matter, Vegeta's soul gets sent to hell, if your soul is sent to hell, then that's it. And killing is a sin, every Z fighter commited a sin, there is no denying that, even Goku did.


First off, Tarkan said taht the Seraph Wing was like an offensive shield, not a super-duper attack. And even so, an attack like that must drain away A LOT of energy from the user, and prolly can't be repeated many times


blarg... The seraphic wing is both. It's like a Genki-dama except your inside the orb.... you need to buy 3rd strike to understand it more.


However, this beam can also be countered by a beam of equal or greater power, such as a Shine Shine

Tenshou Kareki Jin is not a beam, and what the hell is shine shine?


New argument for Gotenks: THe Galactic Donut. He forms a ring of energy that goes around the opponent and crushes him slowly, causing a tremendous amount of pain and damage.

Isn't that the attacks where the ring burns, and crushes you at the same time? Well there are some characters without teleporting that can find a way to evade it's speey projectile.

Gill can freeze the ring rendering it useless, or he can just do seraphic wing to just blast it away.

Akuma can do a Kongou kokuretsuzan to forcefully hit the ring back at Gotenks.

Dhalsim can make the projectile not move using his yoga powers

Oro can do his EX Yagyou-dama to blast away the ring(if he has two arms on him, he can easily manipulate the fireball), or he can do his Tengu-Stone, gathering hard metal, and debree(diamonds, titanium, etc...) to protect himself.

Twelve can just stand there taking the hits, and not getting effected.

Urien might be able to stand up against it, though the burning part of the ring might melt part of his skin.


We're going to need some way to measure the amount of "super bar power" that these SF fighters are going to obtain during the battle

It's like this.... Kamehameha is a super move for Goku, while his regular blasts are special moves. Final Flash would be a super, Gallic-Hou would be a super, not sure about big bang, depends on how much power is put into it.

SF, and DB"Z" are the same. Shinkuu Hadouken is a more powerful variation of the Hadouken. a super move is a more powered up version of the persons special move, or an insanely powerful move, or a unique move. Super moves usually take a lot out of you.


I'd stake Furiza form 2 at around 1,200,000 and Piccolo at around 800,000. Thats a difference of 400,000, and that's a big difference


Some errors there:

-Freiza is supposed to be at 1,060,000, he stated it.

-Freiza is never at max in form 2

-Piccolo is way too low(I'd put him between 900,000- 1 million)

-When Piccolo and Freiza began to fight, Freiza was beating Piccolo up, then Piccolo took off his weights and then beat Freiza, then Freiza powered up, and they were about even. It wasn't any skill used, it was just strength, and speed. Don't listen to the people with fake PL's that say Piccolo used skill, skill is never used in DB"Z", not once, unless in cheating tactics(Vegeta vs Zarbon's monster form in round 2).


Goku has not killed a single person throughout DBZ. Gohan has only killed Cell, and Cell was evil, so the killing of Cell was justified. IF they kill evil people, than that is not evil, because it's justice. THerefore, the Satsu won't affect them (except maybe Vegeta)

You have to go through DB era to see there sins, and Gohan has commited a sin, always obey thy parent(somewhere along the lines of that), he disobeyed Goku when he told Gohan to not interfere when he was going to fight Vegeta.


Do you really want us to do that? I would, but it could take me a LONG while, considiring I don't have any manga's.

http://www.dbz-fan.net/manga

[Dan Hibiki]

Gohan also killed Cell.

Best guess for finding a manga page that goes with my claim is in the manga that is Dragonball on TV or in the Cell Saga.

[princevegetam]

there is absolutely NO sf character(except maybe gill) that can manipulate ki as well as DBZ characters. so none of the SF characters can stop dbz beams or ki attacks.

[Dan Hibiki]

Why are you suddenly saying that? Street Fighter characters can manipulate ki just as well. They simply don't rely on it like DBZ characters do.

[princevegetam]

i'm saying that in response to Tarkan

[Dan Hibiki]

Ryu, Akuma, Bison, and Rose also are very good at ki manipulation. Play against Shin Bison in SFA3 and you will see what I mean about him, and Rose uses ki to reflect ki.

[princevegetam]

but they cannot manipulate ki at the level of the Z fighters.

[Dan Hibiki]

And I say that they can, but unlike DBZ they don't rely on it because they have SKILL. Your whole argument on DBZ fighters having the maximum amount of skill possible is ridiculous. No matter how good somebody is, they can always become better.

[princevegetam]

omg don't you understand?!

ki manipulation is a higher level of skill. go ask any martial artist expert! ki is used in every aspect of martial arts. to perform skilled moves in the most perfect fashion and beyond, you must enhance it with ki. ki is what makes skill PERFECT! and once that has been achieved, martial artists move on to manifesting the ki and using it in the form of energy like they do in dbz and SF!

[Nantuko Joe]

It doesn't matter, Vegeta's soul gets sent to hell, if your soul is sent to hell, then that's it. And killing is a sin, every Z fighter commited a sin, there is no denying that, even Goku did.

Let's not bring morals and ethics into this. If this were true, than the attack would kill Akuma too, since he's killed ppl in the past as well.

Tenshou Kareki Jin is not a beam, and what the hell is shine shine?

You said that the purple energy shoots out of Akuma's hand and hits the enemy. That sure sounds like a beam to me.

And Shine SHine is short for Shine Shine Rapid Fire Death Missile Barrage (one of Gotenks' attacks)

Isn't that the attacks where the ring burns, and crushes you at the same time? Well there are some characters without teleporting that can find a way to evade it's speey projectile.

It's not a projectile. It flies above you and then quickly sticks you in the middle of it and crushes you.

Gill can freeze the ring rendering it useless, or he can just do seraphic wing to just blast it away.

Bah...you say Seraph WIng for everything. He can't do infinite Seraph WIngs

Akuma can do a Kongou kokuretsuzan to forcefully hit the ring back at Gotenks.

??? what the hell is a kongou whatever?

Dhalsim can make the projectile not move using his yoga powers

It's not a projectile

Oro can do his EX Yagyou-dama to blast away the ring(if he has two arms on him, he can easily manipulate the fireball), or he can do his Tengu-Stone, gathering hard metal, and debree(diamonds, titanium, etc...) to protect himself.

whats the EX yagyou thing again?

Twelve can just stand there taking the hits, and not getting effected.

Why not?

-When Piccolo and Freiza began to fight, Freiza was beating Piccolo up, then Piccolo took off his weights and then beat Freiza, then Freiza powered up, and they were about even. It wasn't any skill used, it was just strength, and speed. Don't listen to the people with fake PL's that say Piccolo used skill, skill is never used in DB"Z", not once, unless in cheating tactics(Vegeta vs Zarbon's monster form in round 2).

The fighters in DBZ are way beyond the need to use skill. They stopped using pure skill and technique back during the DB Budokais. Because they're so strong, there's only one technique they really need to use: grappling. Anything other than that is useless, since they're so strong

You have to go through DB era to see there sins, and Gohan has commited a sin, always obey thy parent(somewhere along the lines of that), he disobeyed Goku when he told Gohan to not interfere when he was going to fight Vegeta.

Disobeying a parent is not a sin. DISHONORING a parent is a sin. And the vast majority of Japan does not worship the christian religion, so you can't use the christian set of rules and ideals here

Gohan also killed Cell.

That really doesn't count, Cell was an artificial being, and does not count as a murder/killing. It's like killing a robot, that doesn't count either

Why are you suddenly saying that? Street Fighter characters can manipulate ki just as well. They simply don't rely on it like DBZ characters do.

The DBZ characters rely on Ki so much because they have transcended the need for normal martial arts and technique. Due to their speed and strength, the only art they truly need is Grappling

No matter how good somebody is, they can always become better.

Not true. Gohan can no longer get any stronger, faster, or more skilled than he already is, because he has reached his maximum potential in strength and speed and etc.

ki manipulation is a higher level of skill. go ask any martial artist expert! ki is used in every aspect of martial arts. to perform skilled moves in the most perfect fashion and beyond, you must enhance it with ki. ki is what makes skill PERFECT! and once that has been achieved, martial artists move on to manifesting the ki and using it in the form of energy like they do in dbz and SF!

This is true. There are many martial arts in real life that make good use of ki, such as Juku Kai and Kaishin (sp). They all rely on the use of ki to absorb attacks and deliver counterattacks

[Roll]

Let's not bring morals and ethics into this. If this were true, than the attack would kill Akuma too, since he's killed ppl in the past as well.
Not necessarily. He knows how to defend himself in hell, from what I read up on him. Thus, it doesn't damage him....

[Nantuko Joe]

Let's not bring morals and ethics into this. If this were true, than the attack would kill Akuma too, since he's killed ppl in the past as well.
Not necessarily. He knows how to defend himself in hell, from what I read up on him. Thus, it doesn't damage him....

Just because he has the ability to defend himself in hell doesnt' mean that the attack wouldn't damage him and send him to hell. That just means that when he uses the attack, he'd go to hell too, but would still beat the opponent because hell wouldnt' bother him.

However, ppl like Goku and Vegeta can already defend themselves in the afterlife, both heaven and hell. THerefore, Akuma would have to fight them in hell too, except he wouldn't have the satsu anymore as a trump card

[Dan Hibiki]

You DO know what happens when your soul is ripped from your body by demons, right? You kinda die right then and there, and no physical preparedness is going to help you.

[princevegetam]

that kind of depends on your beliefs and religion

[Nantuko Joe]

Yes, but if these demons prey on evil, then they'd rip out Akuma's soul, too. Remember, when the DBZ fights in hell, it's their souls fighting, not their bodies

And remember, many of the enemies in DBZ have no souls. Buu, Cell, Cell Jrs, and the Androids have no souls, since they're artificial creations

[Dan Hibiki]

princevegetam, we are talking about the reality that exists in Street Fighter. In the Street Fighter reality, that happens when the soul is ripped from the body. M. Bison was hit with Shun Goku Satsu, and when light returned his body was dead and soulless on the ground.

Gimme a break! Cell has a soul obviously if he is in Hell. Buu also has a soul. Thusly, through logic, the Cell Juniors have souls too. Also, the androids have souls because they aren't all artificial.

Akuma knows how to defend himself in Hell and the Z-Warriors don't. Thusly the Shun Goku Satsu could kill anybody in DBZ who committed a sin, and that is everybody.

You can't argue that it doesn't count to kill Cell, because Cell was/is (depending on what point in the series you reference) a living being. Whether or not he was artificially created is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that Gohan took his life.

[princevegetam]

what about the reality in dbz?

[Nantuko Joe]

Gimme a break! Cell has a soul obviously if he is in Hell. Buu also has a soul. Thusly, through logic, the Cell Juniors have souls too. Also, the androids have souls because they aren't all artificial.

Cell never went to hell. That was just filler in the Afterlife Tournament, when Cell and Furiza took control of Hell. That never really happened. Therefore, since Cell was artifically created, he has no soul.

And Buu doesn't have a soul, because he is made of pure magic, with no life essence. Since he isn't technically a living, breathing being, he has no soul.

And the androids' souls were removed when they actually became androids. And 16 never had a soul, since he's 100% mechanical.

Therefore, killing them is like hitting the "off" button on their circuitry.

Akuma knows how to defend himself in Hell and the Z-Warriors don't. Thusly the Shun Goku Satsu could kill anybody in DBZ who committed a sin, and that is everybody.

First off, Akuma has committed sins before. And even though he can defend himself in hell, his soul will still go to hell.

And how do you know that the Z fighters can't defend themselves in hell? Goku defended himself in hell when he fell off of Snake Way. Vegeta should have been able to defend himself, because he was used to evil deeds, hell should have been nothing.

In a nutshell, the Shun Goku Satsu is a kamikaze attack. Akuma's body would be destroyed, but his soul will survive in hell. That would automatically eliminate Akuma from the fight

You can't argue that it doesn't count to kill Cell, because Cell was/is (depending on what point in the series you reference) a living being. Whether or not he was artificially created is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that Gohan took his life.

He was, in a way, alive indeed, but he had no soul. In a way, it's like "killing" a zombie. He is destroyed, but there is no soul to send to heaven or hell.

And still, like I said, Akuma would also be destroyed with whomever he kills.

And the attack cannot affect Goten, Trunks, and Goku, because seriously, they never killed anyone. Goku didn't kill Radditsu, Piccolo did. Goku never killed Baata or Rikum, he only crippled them. Vegeta killed them. Goku never killed Furiza, only crippled him. He also never killed any of the androids, none of the Cell Jrs, or Buu (since Goku didnt' kill Buu, the ppl of earth did) Therefore, Goku has never killed anyone, and is unaffected by the Satsu. Same goes for Goten and Trunks. They never killed anyone, and therefore are unaffected by the Satsu

[princevegetam]

lol, i'll let mr. stubborn nantuko joe handle the dbz side, but i got one question for both sides tho:


would killing animals be considered a sin? what about killing flowers and stuff? they have soul don't they?

[Dan Hibiki]

Akuma has performed the attack several times in the story.

He used the Shun Goku Satsu as Ken watched him kill Gouken.
He attempted to kill Gen using the Shun Goku Satsu, but failed because Gen had purified his soul and atoned for all of the deaths he caused as an assassin.
He destroyed M. Bison with the Shun Goku Satsu just before, during, or immediately after the final battle in the Street Fighter II tournament.

Every time Akuma used the technique he came out unscathed. Thusly by determination of the occurences in the story, the attack is NOT a Kamikaze attack.

History on Oro: Oro is a master in his own right, so powerful that no matter how hard he searched he could find no equal on Earth to teach his techniques and styles to. He then had to paralyze one of his arms using magic, and even then most people couldn't take him down. Ryu is the only one who could come close to taking Oro on one-armed (SFIII), and Oro determines that in 15 years more of training Ryu should be powerful enough to give Oro at least a challenge with him using both arms.

In the SFIII games Oro has one arm paralyzed and in a sling. Because of this, Oro's Super Arts have two versions each. One version uses just his free arm, and the other one takes all of the Super Meter's energy (all levels) and he rips off his sling and makes use of his other arm in an insanely powerful attack.

Oro's Yagyou Dama is where he uses one arm and fires off a semi-large floating orb that drifts lethargically across the screen. It is not terribly powerful.

Oro's EX Yagyou Dama is where he rips off his sling and leaps into the air and forms an energy ball that takes up half the screen and hurls it at the person. It is one of the most damaging attacks in the Street Fighter world.

I say Cell had a soul, you say he didn't, and there is no way to prove or disprove this, so we should drop it. Nonetheless, Cell thought and thusly existed, and Gohan killed him.

I can understand the androids not having a soul because Android 16 never comes back when everybody else who was killed by Cell is resurrected.

Buu most certainly has a soul because Shenron resurrects Kid Buu as Ubuu, purified of his evil. Because he can be resurrected, that means that Buu has a soul, unlike Android 16 who can't be resurrected.

For princevegetam's questions: it should be a sin to kill an animal for the heck of it, but to kill plants is... well, stupid. We'd all go to Hell because we decided to walk across the grass instead of using the sidewalk.

[princevegetam]

wait, if gen purified his soul, why can't the z fighers do the same? how did he purify his soul? is there something you are not tell us?

[Dan Hibiki]

Capcom is renowned throughout the gaming world for leaving plot holes. They never said how he did it. To doublecheck I'll have to look over my official canon Street Fighter storyline compiled by fans and given the OK by Capcom.

[Dan Hibiki]

- Double post due to internet glitch -

[Roll]

Quick addition: Dun forget Oro's other attacks! (Tenguu Ishi, Kishin Kuuchuu Jigoku Guruma, EX Hitobashira Natori, EX Nichirin Shou, etc.)