Lag, and why does it exist? - An old topic in the wrong place.n00b me!

[Gotenks13]

Your posts are getting worse than QUIETKILLER's...

I have experienced way too much lag in my life on this game...but I still play it. It's much too often that I lose, and don't let me lose to a cocky ####...I'll get really pissed, and they'll bring up the fact that they won, but it wouldn't be because of skill, and a whole argument would start.

Lag affects a lot of people, but it seems to affect me the most. I know this isn't anywhere near true, but I can't win a match for $1,000,000 nowadays. This is simply because of lag. Clan battles, tourney's, or anything else would just ruin my, or my clan's record. However, I still fight.

It may be rare that I win (more scarce than a Shinkuu Hadouken going through normal mode), this game is still one of the best games I've played...

You could give some people any explanation of lag you want, but they will continue to act the way they do. I think that everyone who plays this game has the right to say, "It ain't my fault." It really isn't. You "usually" have nothing to do with lag (unless you have all those programs on your comp...), so, you can blame the comps for your loss...and note the usually.

That's all I have for now...

[lobo]

Ok, this is going to take a little time to answer...

i won't say anything new, still it will be said diferently to say the very same thing !

##1##
first: COMERCIAL GAMES, are made with C/C++, ASM that are LANGUAGE that ARE MADE especialy to work with the hardware of your computer and all this directly to it ! meaning they are MADE FOR THAT PURPOSE of developping good GAMES or APPLICATIONS.

SHOCKWAVE: thou it was developped to do the same, use a very not user-friendly language to programs things ! meaning it has very limited potential that other language like c/c++ and ASM doesn't have !

##1.1##
that's why OPTIMIZATION aren't anymore possible then what tmyapp is already making !

##2##
second: let me tell you this, why doe's your BATTLEFIELD 1942 isn't going 100% FPS on your little 500mhz ? the same answer as this game dude ! this game require more then the minimum your using ! i know that, i used to play with the very same thing has you !

##2.1##
as for the BROADBAND connection thing, i want to tell you that it is pretty not changing anything about the actual LAG while you play. even thou it will still reduce lag a little, lag is produce ENTERELY ON INTERNET, not on your computer and not by YOUR modem but by the TIME IT TAKES to REACH the OTHER. that is why even KAILLERA, QUAKE 3 ARENA and ALL other GAMES like that have also much lag ! but you seem not to see it as your computer runs the graphics smoothly !

third: hope you like that explanation even thou it was the very same things as all the other in here !

fourth: TRY TO KNOW YOUR FACTS BEFORE BITCHING!

1.Ok, the whole multimedia thing never occured to me. Stupid, I know, but there you are.

1.1.I have to disagree. I am sorry, i don't care how gifted a programmer you are, it is very very VERY rare to say that your code is so darn good, you can't optimize it further. I'm not saying TMy is a lazy sod who works as hard as my nan, but I do hav ea problem with claiming that what we have now has no room for optimisation.

2.Yeah, I can't run the really groovey NOLF2 Demo on my computer without large problems. I get the concept of the CPU not being fast enough. However, in your re-iteration of what has already been said, you seem to have missed the point that this game possibly shouldn't have those problems.

2.1.So, according to you, I can play QuakeIII etc on a dialup, and have a lag comparable to broadband? Rubbish.



Ok, now onto the response from Tmy...

so from now on... i'll say this: if you don't like the game.. either leave, or make your own that is better ... (for some reason 90% of the new people i talk to here think they can actually do that)... and if u can't, then search the globe to find ANYONE who HAS made a better REAL TIME... MULTIPLAYER... fighting game... that runs INSIDE the browser... using the Macromedia Shockwave engine

until then... u can either spend time searching/reading the forum to find out "why things are the way they are now".. or... not complain about a FREE game which costs you NOTHING !!! :biggrin:

there u have it folks...

plz dont' flood this thread with q's like "then why use Shockwave in the first place ??" because all of that has been answered b4 as well...

Ok, first off the bat, I am glad you pointed out the Macromedia/Shockwave problem. I never thought of that, althought it does make sense now.

Next, i don't have a whole lot of time, as i have another exam tomorrow... i am posting to just keep this topic rolling. So, sorry that i can't do a deep search of the previous posts (although there aren't many, well, none that i could find in my admittedly brief search of "shockwave" that explain why you chose it) nor can I look up the scalability of shockwave.

And no, of course I can't whip up a better version of this game anytime soon, and without much of graphics training, I doubt I could whip one up in the forseeable future.

But I am somewhat disappointed that you took such a harsh stance against this topic, Tmy. I am not doing this to prove, in some perverted way, that I am a better programmer, or even a comparable programmer to you.
I am not.
I am not writing this post, nor taking some valuable time out of my day just to bitch and moan. I really have many many better things to do than that.
I am taking this time out to give you something which I perceive to be quite valuable. An open, honest opinion that points out flaws. I never posted this with any malice or hate. I posted this to try and help this game become the game that you deserve to be known for. A game that is new, affordable, and, most importantly, fun.

So please don't look on this as a

[complaint] about a FREE game which costs you NOTHING!!!

Look on it as some one telling you that, yes, this is a great idea. And yes, there is a large scope on the internet FOR this idea. But while you are nearly there, while you have faithfully duplicated the graphics and moves, while you have added your own odds and ends to make this a similar but different experience, you have overlooked the single most important aspect of, and I would go so far as to say ANY, game. That being gameplay.

The game runs slow and, sadly, this is going to push alot of newcomers and SF fans away from the game. So arm your guns, break out your spades and answer this question:
"Why Shockwave?"
If the shockwave is going to be an eternal sore point for this game, and we will have to wait 5~10 years before the advanced broadband capabilities arrive to make a better game, then you should really consider re-writing this game in a different fashion. Make it a dl version, even, do whatever you need! If the lag could be overcome, I am happy to say I would be looking to fail all my exams as I could not tear myself away.

Ok, that's all again, folks!
Cheers
Lobo

[DX Zero]

i think what lobos trying to say, its not all about lag..
see, if you play it in practice, see how the game is just like street fighter 2 with hyper moves..
in the vs. series, there were more realistic combos, recovery time, better dashes to combos, etc.

i think thats what he meant by improvement in gameplay

[akuma_forever]

ya know... i wish i could delete topics... (but i'll settle for VIP) :biggrin:

[QUIET_KILLER]

[quoteost_uid11="Gotenks13"]Your posts are getting worse than QUIETKILLER's...[/quoteost_uid11]
[color=redost_uid11]HmMm....Ahem I am going to take.
That as a compliment [/colorost_uid11]

[SSJKarma]

first:
you do not seems to realise that you are MORE then BITCHING here !
i mean this...

STOP MAKING DAMN CHARACTER AND FINISH THE DAMN THING ON RIGHT NOW !

that's exactly what you are saying to tmyapp now.
next for the LAG !
do know that SHOCKWAVE even thou i never coded with it. is very different then any othe LANGUAGE used to make any other commercial games ! and believe me, even Q3A has lag on broadband ! that was my point !

EXPLANATION OF LAG (2nd time)
*** <--- this is your computer
*& <--- this is your modem (cable or dialup)
|
|
|
*& <--- ISP MODEM (Dual T3 or more)
*** <--- ISP
*& <--- ISP MODEM 2 (Dual T3 or more)
|
|
|
*& <--- XMvsSF online modem
*** <--- XMvsSF online web server

now you see all those "|" THEY ARE LAG !!!!!!!!
it has nothing to do with your connection or modem it has all have to do with the time it takes to reach the destination. your data could take more then 1 second sometime to reach its target and come back to you with the result !

FACT:
it is a fact that even on cable the WHOLE web page your looking will not LOAD ENTERELY withing HALF of a SECOND.

sorry for your sorry ass but loading a simple 30k on a cable modem takes more then half a second sometimes because of WEB SERVER TRAFFICS.

now if you don't understand LAG with this then DON'T FLAME ANYMORE !
there will always be lag on any GAME including COMERCIALZED ONE !

second:
optimization, never perfect ? that's true ! BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDER THAT TMYAPP HAS BEEN DOING THIS FROM DAY ONE ?
have you even played version before 2.0a ? if not then you cannot even know what tmyapp has gone thru just to bring you this !

i say CLOSE that DAMN TOPIC has LOBO really don't know what he is taking about in here !
and also because all i see is BITCHING about this game, i think we can all say we had enough of this kind of bitching in XMvsSF life !

[princevegetam]

actually, this raises a good point

Tmyapp, why are you coding using macromedia shockwave? Why don't you develop a engine using C++ or something better that enables us to play this game on our computers and not on a server? Won't that decrease the lag? And if you are putting this game on a server so that we can access it from anywhere, anytime, then why don't you develop the engine using flash or java(which is moe powerful than shockwave)?

[SSJKarma]

vegetam:
shockwave = the player
flash = the coding
putting them together = Macromedia shockwave game !

but yeah, nice question anyway...
why FLASH and not any other language like java or others ?

[princevegetam]

huh? isn't flash and shockwave different? isn't flash played on a "flash player"? doesn't shockwave have its own programming language?

[TMyApp]

shockwave & flash are 100% dif and have NOTHING to do with eachother...

in any case... this thread reached the limits of "this has been asked over and over again for the last year and a half"...