Fighting - Skipage

[lesOmbre]

howcome me and my friend's fights are always differnt on eachothers screens...like he'll hit me but on my screen it wont show him hitting me ???

[GRANDMASTER]

hey man its about time you learn about lag :buttrock:

[Saijin_Ryu]

When after you fight someone and they tell you that "you lag baddly," what does this really mean? Lag is caused by different download/running speeds between two computers but there are a number of factors that influence this before you even begin a game.

First lets start off with your computer before you ever get on the internet. Your computers running speed is determined mostly by what model it is (thus its total capabilities), amount of remaining free memory, and amount of running memory. Pretty much, people playing with newer computers without much junk on them will beat the crap out of people with older computers without much memory and programs running all over the place. When you do connect to the internet, your type of connection comes into play to determine how fast you can download things off the internet (including the game). So, someone with cable and a decent computer could easily have less lag than someone with a bad computer and dsl connection. Take my computers for example. My computer that I'm using right now is fairly new, has over half its memory empty, and I can download games that are 300 MB in a little over a minute. Now, when it comes to getting online, because my connection is through the phone lines (very slow) I download almost everything at the rate of 2 KB per second. My other computer, the '95 or thereabouts Mac can download stuff off the internet using the same connection at about .2 to .5 KB a second. Thus, the computer AND the connection type will effect lag.

Once you actually load the game, you can now decrease lag by going to your options and changing a few things. Turning the music/sound as well as turning off the background will cause the game to have to run about 1/3 of the total information. Also, I advise everyone to turn off the "speed adjust" because that can/will cause lag to change from regular, to extreme, to regular again and just mess your fighting technique up in general. Before you enter a game, you have one last option, the choice of server. If you've challenged someone openly or are scheduled to fight someone, try to fight in the server that's least congested because a lot of people will lag a server.

Note that at this point I'll be covering how lag in "normal" lag situations. There are instances in a few rare fights that the two (or more) computer's download/running speeds are grossly off and extreme lag will cause many glitches including loss of sync, a slower game play, not being able to preform super jumps or supers at all, sync lost on one screen but not the other (the attacks are all piled up right after sync is regained making your opponent attack perhaps 20 times in under 2 secons), and sometimes your opponent just won't move at all because their moves just arn't being interpretted by your computer. In these situations it's very hard to win and almost no player, regaurdless their knowledge of lag, will be enough to save themselves. For everything else, there's master car.. I mean the rest of this article.

When you actually begin a game, you probably know this by nowbut the hoster usually has the "lag advantage." This means that the hoster will be able to pull off their moves with greater ease as well as encounter fewer "teleports" on their screen. In short, the hoster has less lag and runs the game faster in almost every fight. The next set of options (in a host game) are tag, helpers, timer, and level. Tag mode causes lag by making the game need to run more things.. so I advise people to turn that off. I've seen no proof that helpers or timer changes lag, but I'd turn timer off (because lag can drastically slow your character's speed down) and leave helpers on (to help when you get nailed by a super right after your opponent "teleports). And I'd advise everyone to start with level 0 because there again, the hoster will likely have the lag advantage when it comes to hitting people with supers. After you start the game, you have two more options. No character is laggier than the next (just techniques can be) so choose whoever but when it comes to the normal/turbo option.. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CHOOSE TURBO. I know many people think that normal mode is less laggy, but here's what I've come to discover. While in both modes, fighting is pretty much the same but in normal mode, your moves are slowed down so much that blocking quickly is nearly impossible. In a Ryu vs. Ryu battle, you'll almost never be able to super jump or block a Shinkuu Hadoken at the last minute because your blocks are slowed as well and defense from such moves are made nearly impossible. And this must be why people believe normal mode causes less lag, because you'll cause damage more often (although it will be a MUCH longer match). So just stick with turbo so that you'll have the chance to defend yourself.

Now that you're in the game, I'd like to point out that no two people EVER see the exact same match. This is because their download/running speed will be different and in almost all cases, whenever you or your opponent blocks an attack or dodges it, it's too quick for the other player's computer to pick up, thus setting off a chain sequence where both people "fight out of sync". I'll give an example, say you're fighting someone Ryu vs. Ryu. The jump at you with hard kicks, you block and hit them as soon as they land then procede to trap them in a corner rape, and when you back off they "teleport" to the other side. Then you use several Hadokens followed by a Shinkuu Hadoken and after you use the super, they appear behind you and start attacking, having taken no damage at all. Why did this happen? It's all because back in the first move you blocked their jumping hard kick and hit them, when on their screen, their computer would not have picked up the block, and they proceeded to keep hitting you on their screen as you put them in the corner rape on your screen. At this point it's like both people are hitting Barneys and neither recieves damage because it's not what the other is seeing on their screen. When you backed off your corner rape, they "teleported" to their "real" position and you fired Hadokens at them. Although, because the game requires the opposing character to stand still for a few frames (not falling in the air), your opponent's computer never interpretted the Hadokens. Once you did the Shinkuu Hadoken, it's most likely that they had backed off or the game forced a sync by then and they super jumped over it while it was firing (impossible to do in nomral mode). What I like to reffer to as the above form of fighting without inflicting damage is "fighting out of sync."

At least 90% of all your attacks that appear to hit are just misses, and thus everyone fights out of sync for the majority of the time. This out of sync fighting creates problems with how two screens will interpret a fight and thus cause lag. The thing that causes this is quickly dodging or blocking an attack. How often does your screen actually show your opponent dodge or block an attack? Rarely. And when you miss your opponent on their screen but hit them on your screen, it will cause problems.. The most common are cheap shots and corner rapers by after the third attack, the reciever of the attack is usually out and starting to counter the attack. But someone who is duck punching or lightening kicking will not interpret this, once again, until they leave their opponent alone long enough for them to "teleport." Thus, this fighting out of sync causes the basis for all kinds of lag problems when people don't let up on an attack for long enough.

So what can you do to counteract this? Well, there's not much you can do but to understand it and use techniques that will keep you out of harms way. A favorite of many people is to super jump around like crazy, thus avioding many attacks and frustrating the opponent. However, I'd suggest that you go ahead and fight out of sync, but take the opportunity to back off when you can obviously see that your opponents health isn't moving. Once they "teleport," you can begin heading your attacks in the "correct" dirrection. Another useful technique is to cheap shot in moderation. By duck punching the whole round, you'll not only miss your opponent the whole time, but also cause lots of lag. On the contrary, if you're being corner rapes or attacked relentlessly, use some quick attack that'll stop the opponent from attacking for just a split-second then super jump out of harm's way. Although the attacks won't hurt them, they won't hurt you (which is by far the best way to fight). One technique for Ryu that I rarely see anyone use (even the great fighters) is jumping behind your opponent and hard kicking to keep them from hurting you. Usually, this is a good idea if they're running/jumping backwards/super jumping behind you to try and get you in the line of fire of a Shinkuu Hadoken. By jumping backwards and kicking them, your attacks won't hurt them, but they won't hurt you and after the super, you'll "teleport" on their screen right behind them. What I've listed here are just a few examples of how to escape lag by exploiting it. Anything further should be listed in the "strategies" section of the forum.

To review, lag is caused by the difference of running speed/download speed of two computers. Running/download speed can be increased by altering the settings, closing programs, and deleting information. Lag comes into play in the game when you block/dodge an attack quickly and the opponent's computer doesn't pick up on it. Corner raping, cheap shooting, and using any kind off attackes that will promote fighting out of sync will do nothing but increase lag and its glitchy effects (usually teleportation). You can counter your opponent's lag by exploiting your own, and I'm certain all the great fighters know how to do this. Now that you know this, you're ready to invent/borrow strategies to defeat your opponent with the foreknowledge of how lag opperates. Remember, EVERYONE had a fighting style and thus a "lagging style" and there is a way to defeat every one of them, it's just a matter of finding out how.

-2000warrior

[Leha]

its probably the Internet speed connection.....or 1 of you lags

[lesOmbre]

okay...i guess that answers my question.

[Restavega]

that answered alot of questions for me too.

[devilsoul]

[quoteost_uid0="Saijin Ryu"]

When after you fight someone and they tell you that "you lag baddly," what does this really mean? Lag is caused by different download/running speeds between two computers but there are a number of factors that influence this before you even begin a game.

First lets start off with your computer before you ever get on the internet. Your computers running speed is determined mostly by what model it is (thus its total capabilities), amount of remaining free memory, and amount of running memory. Pretty much, people playing with newer computers without much junk on them will beat the crap out of people with older computers without much memory and programs running all over the place. When you do connect to the internet, your type of connection comes into play to determine how fast you can download things off the internet (including the game). So, someone with cable and a decent computer could easily have less lag than someone with a bad computer and dsl connection. Take my computers for example. My computer that I'm using right now is fairly new, has over half its memory empty, and I can download games that are 300 MB in a little over a minute. Now, when it comes to getting online, because my connection is through the phone lines (very slow) I download almost everything at the rate of 2 KB per second. My other computer, the '95 or thereabouts Mac can download stuff off the internet using the same connection at about .2 to .5 KB a second. Thus, the computer AND the connection type will effect lag.

Once you actually load the game, you can now decrease lag by going to your options and changing a few things. Turning the music/sound as well as turning off the background will cause the game to have to run about 1/3 of the total information. Also, I advise everyone to turn off the "speed adjust" because that can/will cause lag to change from regular, to extreme, to regular again and just mess your fighting technique up in general. Before you enter a game, you have one last option, the choice of server. If you've challenged someone openly or are scheduled to fight someone, try to fight in the server that's least congested because a lot of people will lag a server.

Note that at this point I'll be covering how lag in "normal" lag situations. There are instances in a few rare fights that the two (or more) computer's download/running speeds are grossly off and extreme lag will cause many glitches including loss of sync, a slower game play, not being able to preform super jumps or supers at all, sync lost on one screen but not the other (the attacks are all piled up right after sync is regained making your opponent attack perhaps 20 times in under 2 secons), and sometimes your opponent just won't move at all because their moves just arn't being interpretted by your computer. In these situations it's very hard to win and almost no player, regaurdless their knowledge of lag, will be enough to save themselves. For everything else, there's master car.. I mean the rest of this article.

When you actually begin a game, you probably know this by nowbut the hoster usually has the "lag advantage." This means that the hoster will be able to pull off their moves with greater ease as well as encounter fewer "teleports" on their screen. In short, the hoster has less lag and runs the game faster in almost every fight. The next set of options (in a host game) are tag, helpers, timer, and level. Tag mode causes lag by making the game need to run more things.. so I advise people to turn that off. I've seen no proof that helpers or timer changes lag, but I'd turn timer off (because lag can drastically slow your character's speed down) and leave helpers on (to help when you get nailed by a super right after your opponent "teleports). And I'd advise everyone to start with level 0 because there again, the hoster will likely have the lag advantage when it comes to hitting people with supers. After you start the game, you have two more options. No character is laggier than the next (just techniques can be) so choose whoever but when it comes to the normal/turbo option.. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CHOOSE TURBO. I know many people think that normal mode is less laggy, but here's what I've come to discover. While in both modes, fighting is pretty much the same but in normal mode, your moves are slowed down so much that blocking quickly is nearly impossible. In a Ryu vs. Ryu battle, you'll almost never be able to super jump or block a Shinkuu Hadoken at the last minute because your blocks are slowed as well and defense from such moves are made nearly impossible. And this must be why people believe normal mode causes less lag, because you'll cause damage more often (although it will be a MUCH longer match). So just stick with turbo so that you'll have the chance to defend yourself.

Now that you're in the game, I'd like to point out that no two people EVER see the exact same match. This is because their download/running speed will be different and in almost all cases, whenever you or your opponent blocks an attack or dodges it, it's too quick for the other player's computer to pick up, thus setting off a chain sequence where both people "fight out of sync". I'll give an example, say you're fighting someone Ryu vs. Ryu. The jump at you with hard kicks, you block and hit them as soon as they land then procede to trap them in a corner rape, and when you back off they "teleport" to the other side. Then you use several Hadokens followed by a Shinkuu Hadoken and after you use the super, they appear behind you and start attacking, having taken no damage at all. Why did this happen? It's all because back in the first move you blocked their jumping hard kick and hit them, when on their screen, their computer would not have picked up the block, and they proceeded to keep hitting you on their screen as you put them in the corner rape on your screen. At this point it's like both people are hitting Barneys and neither recieves damage because it's not what the other is seeing on their screen. When you backed off your corner rape, they "teleported" to their "real" position and you fired Hadokens at them. Although, because the game requires the opposing character to stand still for a few frames (not falling in the air), your opponent's computer never interpretted the Hadokens. Once you did the Shinkuu Hadoken, it's most likely that they had backed off or the game forced a sync by then and they super jumped over it while it was firing (impossible to do in nomral mode). What I like to reffer to as the above form of fighting without inflicting damage is "fighting out of sync."

At least 90% of all your attacks that appear to hit are just misses, and thus everyone fights out of sync for the majority of the time. This out of sync fighting creates problems with how two screens will interpret a fight and thus cause lag. The thing that causes this is quickly dodging or blocking an attack. How often does your screen actually show your opponent dodge or block an attack? Rarely. And when you miss your opponent on their screen but hit them on your screen, it will cause problems.. The most common are cheap shots and corner rapers by after the third attack, the reciever of the attack is usually out and starting to counter the attack. But someone who is duck punching or lightening kicking will not interpret this, once again, until they leave their opponent alone long enough for them to "teleport." Thus, this fighting out of sync causes the basis for all kinds of lag problems when people don't let up on an attack for long enough.

So what can you do to counteract this? Well, there's not much you can do but to understand it and use techniques that will keep you out of harms way. A favorite of many people is to super jump around like crazy, thus avioding many attacks and frustrating the opponent. However, I'd suggest that you go ahead and fight out of sync, but take the opportunity to back off when you can obviously see that your opponents health isn't moving. Once they "teleport," you can begin heading your attacks in the "correct" dirrection. Another useful technique is to cheap shot in moderation. By duck punching the whole round, you'll not only miss your opponent the whole time, but also cause lots of lag. On the contrary, if you're being corner rapes or attacked relentlessly, use some quick attack that'll stop the opponent from attacking for just a split-second then super jump out of harm's way. Although the attacks won't hurt them, they won't hurt you (which is by far the best way to fight). One technique for Ryu that I rarely see anyone use (even the great fighters) is jumping behind your opponent and hard kicking to keep them from hurting you. Usually, this is a good idea if they're running/jumping backwards/super jumping behind you to try and get you in the line of fire of a Shinkuu Hadoken. By jumping backwards and kicking them, your attacks won't hurt them, but they won't hurt you and after the super, you'll "teleport" on their screen right behind them. What I've listed here are just a few examples of how to escape lag by exploiting it. Anything further should be listed in the "strategies" section of the forum.

To review, lag is caused by the difference of running speed/download speed of two computers. Running/download speed can be increased by altering the settings, closing programs, and deleting information. Lag comes into play in the game when you block/dodge an attack quickly and the opponent's computer doesn't pick up on it. Corner raping, cheap shooting, and using any kind off attackes that will promote fighting out of sync will do nothing but increase lag and its glitchy effects (usually teleportation). You can counter your opponent's lag by exploiting your own, and I'm certain all the great fighters know how to do this. Now that you know this, you're ready to invent/borrow strategies to defeat your opponent with the foreknowledge of how lag opperates. Remember, EVERYONE had a fighting style and thus a "lagging style" and there is a way to defeat every one of them, it's just a matter of finding out how.

-2000warrior

[/quote]
damn...that was a smart way to use that long post eh :biggrin:



Edited By devilsoul on May 13 2004 at 05:20