Which do u think is better - Dead or alive or tekken! or capcom vs sn

[Master_Jay]

pfft, I'll say tekken...

[ravedrifter]

[quoteost_uid0="SSJKarma"]tell me about it
is this why you cannot choose 3 guys fromt he bottom row in CvsSNK ?

that are tiers cause they consider the bottom line to be too strong compared to the others thus clearly saying its unbalanced to have 3 of the bottom fighters compared to one who has 3 of the upper line !

that are tiers and they completely unbalanced the game by doing so !
the second i want to have caus ei like VS game, but surely i won't pay too much for it unlike the first game !

and by the way... i am the idiot when you didn't figured out that CAPCOM had gone ANIME STYLE while SNK had gone REALISTICK style and that both of them are completely different styles that do not work together ?

face it, the characters are way too stupid looking in CvsSNK then what they are in all other CAPCOM games !
SNK sucks, that's why it got shut down as well !
that is also why you don't see any other KING OF FIGHTERS or anything else like that !

nowbefore saying things and insulting others, you should look into your own facts and get them straight ![/quote]
uhhhhhh well its not tiers cause tiers is how good they are in a game not how strong they are retard. and cvs2 i was talking about anyways kiddo

[Dan Hibiki]

Restavega: 'Gief's gay. He honest to God is. Capcom says so. I never, ever get tired of saying that to 'Gief fans :biggrin:.

Dead or Alive stinks because a major tournament was held in Japan a few weeks ago, and one person who played for just two weeks beat EVERYBODY by doing one move with Hayate over and over again. Very simple system for the most part.

Tekken is good as a whole because of the massive amount of depth it has. Tekken 4 was not very good because of glitches and balance issues, but TTT is VERY good. Tekken 5 should be awesome.

CvSNK2 stinks. The whole game is pokes into supers, and roll-cancelled special moves. Very cheap and unbalanced game. SAGAT AND BLANKA OWNS ALL! They really do.

Now... for other parts of this discussion...

SSJKarma: SNK is good. Games are deep, graphics are high-detailed (even if you hate the style), and for the most part the games are better-balanced than Capcom games.

NoSoul: :biggrin: sorry to burst your bubble, but DOA3 IS button-masher friendly, which is its problem. I study this stuff in-depth, and it truly is. It requires hardly any skill to win at too, as my previous mention of the game says above. Sure, it's beautiful and looks good in motion, but that's all.

Tiers are how good a character is in a game, yes, and tiers do exist. To say otherwise, I'm afraid to say, is just stupid. NO game, not even VF4:Evo or GGXX#Reload, is tier-free. Name a game, and I'll tell you the tiers of the game. It's not to say that lower-tier characters can't win against top-tier, but it is very, VERY, VERY hard to do that.



Edited By Dan Hibiki on May 20 2004 at 06:11

[SSJKarma]

i swear DAN you say you know it but if you truly button smash in DOA against me, i swear you'll get easily kicked, for i will counter every damn punch or kick you'll do !

now that was the stupidiest thing to say !
almost every fliping game is button smashing madness !

SOUL CALIBER
TEKKEN
DOA
MvsC 1 and 2

and i could go on like that !
almost all fliping fighting games are button smashing friendly !
but they all have the one system that makes them not be so much after all... that is the defense system, if you button smash, can you land a reversal ? if you button smash, can you alpha counter, if you button smash, can you do a dodge in SC ?

answer is no, thus you gotta have to slow down and show all button smashing guys that whatever they do, button smashing do not win against everything !

as for CvsSNK, you say it's more balanced ?
how can you say such a thing ?
for all i know, how can a 4 against 2 be a balanced game ?
you know that don't play for winning with the fliping best character dan... so why would a game company make one character better then all the others in the first place ?

i will and it will always be what the players does and not how the character is that will make you win. never will it be the other way around !

in any case... DOA rocks over TEKKEN, i still don't understand why TEKKEN get's so Much attention ! DOA is better then the TEKKEN series ! the only thing good in tekken is the TEKKEN BALL MODE and the TEKKEN FORCE mode ! otherwise it's nothing !

[Dan Hibiki]

1. I feel like tackling this first. Tekken gets its attention because of the sheer level of depth the game has. Go to www.tekkenzaibatsu.com and look around. There's just so much for every character and for every system of Tekken to know to be truly good, and so much to master. It's also very hard to execute good combos and strong setups in that game as well. It is truly harder than most of the other games. Tekken 4 isn't as good as Tekken Tag Tournament, but even at its worst Tekken is better than many other fighters.

2. Dead or Alive 3 is not very good because people can mash. Why does that work? Because it's random and hard to predict. If somebody randomly mashes out moves, it's pretty hard to reverse them, or predict when you should simply counter-attack if they're about to throw. Basically, DOA's system is this:

:Attacks beat throws
:Throws beat reversals
:Reversals beat attacks

The problem is, button mashers are often too random and illogical to properly anticipate, so you're forced to watch and try to simply react as it happens. That's hard because most people only have about a 15 frame (0.25 second) reaction time, and that's just for recognizing that something's coming. You gotta take even more time to decide what to do. See, there's plenty of logic to what I say.

You SAY you'll reverse everything, but that's just it: you CAN'T reverse everything in DOA. They'll throw at random because they're mashing, so you're forced to choose between guarding (gets thrown), reversing (gets thrown for Hi-Counter damage), or attacking and getting a counter-hit. How will you know the throw is coming when a throw is 6 frames (0.1 seconds)? 6 frames to execute with a standard of 15 frames to simply react for humans. The throw comes out too fast to recognize what it is, and do something about it.

The problem with DOA is that mashers can hang with those who practice because of this. This is the opinion of the entire fighting game community, pretty much.

3. I said CvSNK2 is NOT more balanced. It is LESS balanced. Sagat (C-N), Blanka (C-N), Sakura (A), and Geese (K) all are at the top of the pyramid in that game. Sagat for his ridiculous priority on attacks, Blanka for his incredibly good roll-cancelling applications, Sakura for strong priority and very solid custom combos, and Geese for getting 1/3 of his super guage filled while in K groove for landing reversals (which are easy to do in CvSNK2), combined with a solid move list and very powerful Level 3 super options (which are used for K-Groove supers). Everybody else except Kyosuke is in the middle, where they can compete with the top tiers at least (but have a terribly hard time winning). Kyosuke just stinks because of how preposterously slow he is, and is at rock bottom.

4. Game manufacturers nowadays usually don't INTENTIONALLY make a character better than most of the others. It's usually oversight. Either they don't recognize how effective a character's tool (or move with a specific purpose) will be, or a game-modifying glitch comes along that alters the usefulness of a character's tools in general, or that a character is just not made well, and has lots of glitches.

When this happens, characters can become better or worse because of these circumstances. For example, because of oversight in his parry, block-stun advantage, and an accidental just-frame input on a move, Jin is the very top in Tekken 4. In addition, because of basically the same oversights, but in the opposite direction, Craig Marduk and Lei Wulong are at the very bottom in Tekken 4.

Tiers are when the programmers make mistakes in one way or another. Games aren't made perfect. EVER. Tiers are representative of this.



Edited By Dan Hibiki on May 20 2004 at 05:19

[SSJKarma]

DAN, my bet is that you don't know the DOA like i do !

i played with BUtton Mashers as you say they are, yeah it doesn't take a lot to be beaten in this... but then why am i winning 9 out of 10 fights against those button smasher you speak about ?

truly, doing combo's in any game requires BUTTON SHASHING. as you gotta be fast and creative to achieve a good combo, there is so much in this game i don't even know them all ! button smashing doesn't bring any one of them. i know pretty much all of the combo's of every fliping person thus it takes me a lot more time to react as i know what is coming !

if the guy just does a combo, you know how it is, you got 4 thing you can do, all of them will get you out ! either you block and throw (the guy will be close to you after it, thus you'll get priority over him, reguardless of what he does) either you dodge, which will make him go past you like a moron ! either you block and throw ! either you grab and counter !

button smashing gets you so far. that you won't even go in depth thus you won't know the moves that actually hit the opponent !

how many chances do a good ZACK player has against a ZACK SMASHER ?
actually none, as zack isn't a combo freak that can be made with only a fewbutton, he takes lot more to know his moves ! a good example would be his upper knee followed by a bicycle kick ! MAJOR DAMAGE, but you will never see any button smasher that pushes random button do it, as you it takes more then 2 button to accomplish !

want me to go on like that...
besides my favorite JANN-LEE no one there is a button smasher freak as all the charcaters combo requires many arrows and many different combination which if anyone doesn't kow can't go far !

all they will do is hit the kick and punch button randomly which will get them so nowhere because they will be doing the same moves again and again which is the best way to be countered !

seriously, i find DOA better then TEKKEN !

as for everything else...
seriously...
the charcaters can never be stronger then any other, for all characters are made by many people, thus you would need one designer to make all of his character stronger then others ! but others will have the same idea thus giving you the why tiers do not exists !

all characters been created by different people thus each devver gave them special ability for them to get advantage. which makes it end up with their own advantage, thus making all charcaters have their own advantage in the different situation !

example, chunli may have a lot more priority then any other charcter, it won't help her again cyc|ops. in close range, RYU have his chances against bison. thru escaping his the way to be with bison, he won't necessarely have a chance against sagat !

all this is not how the character acts, but how the player will play, and since we always have someone stronger then us int his world, there is no best of the best ! thus all players ave their chances against everyone else !

as simple as that !

[evilryu200]

damn u guys write too much anyways tekken is better than all games.

[Dan Hibiki]

You know what, Karma? QUIT F**KING INSULTING ME. I'M TIRED OF IT. "I DON'T KNOW DOA LIKE YOU DO," OR, "YOU'LL COUNTER EVERYTHING I DO," "IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT..." YOU MAKE ME SOUND LIKE AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT WITHOUT HAVING A DAMN BIT OF KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJECT. YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY SHOWN ME YOU DON'T HAVE KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJECT. Y'KNOW, I'M F**KING TIRED OF IT. Disagree if you want, but DON'T F**KING INSULT ME.

I KNOW DOA is masher-friendly and does not have much depth. I'VE STUDIED THE F**KING GAME FOR 3 YEARS... I STUDIED IT! EVEN THE WORLD CHAMPION OF DOA3 SAID SO BEFORE. WORLD... F**KING... CHAMPION. DISPUTE HIS CLAIMS, CONSIDERING HE BEAT THE BEST IN THE WHOLE WORLD, AND IS OBVIOUSLY KNOWLEDGABLE.

I KNOW AS VERIFIABLE FACT THAT TEKKEN IS A DEEPER AND BETTER GAME THAN DOA3. I STUDIED TEKKEN FOR 6 F**KING YEARS, AND YOU BRUSH ASIDE MY CLAIMS, PRACTICALLY CALLING ME A F**KING IDIOT. BACK OFF.

I KNOW there are tiers in fighting games. THE WORLD CHAMPION OF MvC2 SAYS SO. THE WORLD CHAMPION OF SC2 SAYS SO. THE WORLD CHAMPION OF TEKKEN SAYS SO. THE WORLD CHAMPION OF CvSNK2 SAYS SO. EVERYBODY... BUT... YOU... SAYS... SO.

To hell with, "individual advantages," and crap like that. Some characters are better than others, and I've told you so many times, in so many ways, that I could write a book about it now. SOME ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS. GET OVER IT.

I'M SO F**KING TIRED OF HOW DISRESPECTFUL AND INSULTING YOU ARE TO ME IN THESE ARGUMENTS. KNOCK IT OFF.

You can only push me so much before I snap.

[SSJKarma]

i don't even want to bother readin after the first parapgraph, you why i hate you so much dan, YOU flipING THINK YOU ARE THE WISEST PERSON AROUND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you always say you studied the game for 3 years aor something, reguardless of how i say it !

let me remember you what you told me int he last 3 years !

i studied DOA for 3 years
i studied MvsC2 for 3 years
i studied TEKKEN for 3 years
i studied VIRTUA FIGHTER for 3 years
i stupied STREET FIGHTER ALPHA for 3 years
i studied XMvsSF for 3 years
i studied STREET FIGHTER II for 3 years !

come on, don't you have enought of saying that fliping sentence all the time ?
seriously... you think i am not knowledgable about it !
and so you think you are for EVERY flipING DAMN GAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can't you admit that sometimes one is right and you are not !
i have played DOA1 and 2 for so long that i know how the DOA series works ! and for what i tryed of the third installement, its even better then the first two !

yeah you can mash the buttons and have a chance to win... but fliping do that when the computer is at his hardest and see howbutton mashing don't work at all there !

but you know what...i'm sure you won't even read up this far...
you say what you want, but don't complain if one day you get fliping screwed and banned !



Edited By SSJKarma on May 20 2004 at 18:13

[Saijin_Ryu]

Hmm, this is a bit to much of a heated discussion. Dont get hasty nowboth of are you are taking this way too personally. All your doing is discussing fighting games, their's no need to start randomly cursing at each other this amounts to nothing and makes you seem v.pety.
You both have your own opinion no matter how long you discuss or try to waive the other's thoughts on it, you both will have different views on it, there's no need to start wailing at each other...you've turned a perfectly nice thread spiralling with your bikkering. Both of you should grow up, before this continues.