State of the union - And all the other speeches..

[princevegetam]

um... actually SSJKarma, the japanese did have an army, at the time, they had conquered most of asia. their army was weakened

[Nantuko Joe]

[quoteost_uid0="princevegetam"]what a load of bullpoop. yes, it was stupid of the japanese government to not surrender, but what did you expect?! they'd conquered most of asia at that time and they were confident that america was going to be no problem. how could they have known that the U.S. had an atomic bomb?! in those days, 90% of the world didn't even know what a nuclear weapon could do, of course they're going to call the bluff. it'd be like iraq threatening to destroy the entire U.S. with some sort of new technology, would the U.S. surrender? #### no. and it was the japanese government who decided to not surrender, not all of the japanese ppl agreed with that. there were innocent japanese ppl who wished to surrender that died as a result of the irresponsible actions by the U.S.

you may have not harmed the jailed japanese, but what you did was an act of discrimination and racism. they were prejudiced against in the jails and you flipin know it. even the U.S. has admitted what they did was wrong so there is no argument here, what the U.S. did to it's own citizens with japanese heritage was WRONG.

and that crap about the iraqis being killed by their own leader's bio/chemi weapons is a unconfirmed. unless you can show me some solid proof from a media source that is not of american nature, it is unsubstantial evidence. and assuming that the empty chemical warheads had chemical weapons is not good enough. it is an assumption which could be wrong. stop coming up with a poopload of theories, give me some real proof.[/quote]
However, after being bombed ONCE and being threatened that we had two more laying in our reserves, they SHOULD HAVE SURRENDERED! They had seen the devastation that one of them did at Hiroshima. We told them they'd hit them again. They ignored us. They brought it upon THEMSELVES.

The camps we forced the japanese into during WWII pacific were totally necessary. Once again, WE WERE AT WAR WITH THEM!!! We could not afford the liability that one or a group of them could be suicide bombers or sleeper agents. It was a necessity.

Oh, so just because it's an american source means that it's really unconfirmed? What a load of bull########. If YOU want the information so badly, then YOU go look it up. What country do you live in? Go to your frigging library and look up articles on it. I don't have the time to dig around because some 14-year-old on a XMvsSF thinks he's smart.

[Scorponok]

So much for talking about Bush and the State of the Union speech :biggrin:

[Squall87]

Can someone please summerize it for me? I am not going to read 5 pages, of speech that could have bad grammer. *no digs at Bush, just places of where I get my info.* Nor do I have the time to sit down and think of it in the pro-american mind.

[princevegetam]

nantuko, you'll never understand the prejudice those japanese americans felt because you were never there! go talk to some japanese who were imprisoned in america in that time. tell me this, why weren't any russians or germans imprisoned when america had conflicts with them?! were the chinese/koreans imprisoned as well? and why aren't the muslims in america imprisoned today, due to the terrorism stuff?

and stop always putting the blame on others. the first bomb was obviously unnecessary since they don't even know what nuclear weapons were. afterwards, you only gave them 10 days to surrender and that certainly wasn't good enough. for one, they didn't even know what happened! there was widespread chaos and confusion! there were mixed reports as to what happened! and again, it was the leaders of the japanese who decided not to surrender, not some of the innocent ppl. the leader does not speak for all of the ppl. those innocent ppl could have lived if the U.S. let them.

[Nantuko Joe]

Oh, and YOU do, right? Since YOU were there. You don't know how they were treated either. And we never "imprisoned", as you say, Germans or Russians because:

1) Russia was on our side during WWII
2) Neither Russia nor Germany attacked US soil. Japan did. The japanese were crazy: they purposely filled the tanks of their airplanes half-full, so even if they DIDN'T commit suicide, they'd never make it back.

And those innocent ppl could have lived if their own government had surrendered. Sure, there were mixed reports, but in the 10 days, how hard could it have been to fly a plane over Hiroshima and survey the damage? Sure, the FIRST bomb may have been overkill, but they pretty much told us to bomb them the second time.

For the WWII debate over the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I have this to say:

Killing less then 5,000 people in Pearl Harbor is hardly a justification for vaporizing 130,000 innocent civilians (note, 130,000 or thereabouts died instantly, the millions princevegetam reffered to died within the following days/weeks/months). Sure, they were givin a fair warning... but did the people of Japan get together and vote on the matter? No... I doubt they were even told. Remember, Japan was a militaristic dictatorship at the time. Tojo wasn't about to give up without a fight, and the civilian population had better stay the #### out of his way (again, pointed out by princevegetam). Do you really think Tojo cared if his own people were massacred? Nah.. he was just staying in power, much like Saddam is trying to do now. In fact the peace agreement allowed for Tojo to stay the brutal dictator of Japan after the war was over.

But getting back to subject... killing civilians is never justified through any means. Not Hitler's slaughter of Jews and Russians, not Saddam's slaughter of his own people, not the US bombing of Japan in WWII, not the Japanese slaughter of Chinese civilians, and well... all of it is killing off inocent civilians in the end, who none of which deserve to die.

That's all I'm gonna say on that issue...

As for my opinions on the state of the unioun adress? Well, I personally thought it was all a load of propaganda. For the first 30 min. or so, Bush just kept saying bs like "we need to help orphans and give them mentors", "help the HIV people of Africa", and "our economy is doing better, but not as good as I'm gonna make it next year", and other of the like bs propaganda for votes. I got too frustrated with all the propaganda-filled clapping... so I turned it before he got to Iraq. The one thing that was important that I heard was those hydrogen powered cars... "hydrogen makes a reaction with oxygen, which can be trasverted into energy" or something along those lines. I bet you can all guess which reaction he's talking about... :biggrin:

[princevegetam]

tojo had his honour to defend. he was born a samurai and raised on the belief that he must die in battle. others weren't like that. those woman and children didn't agree to that. and yet they were still killed. that is wrong and blaming it on their leader wasn't good enough. the fact is, the U.S. dropped it not tojo, the U.S. could've chose another path to peace but they didn't. the U.S. is just as guilty as tojo.

russia was communists and since americans hate communists so much then why don't they imprison those sleeper agents? why not imprison russians? didn't they threaten nuclear war with those nuclear missles in cuba?

[Nantuko Joe]

[quoteost_uid0="princevegetam"]russia was communists and since americans hate communists so much then why don't they imprison those sleeper agents? why not imprison russians? didn't they threaten nuclear war with those nuclear missles in cuba?[/quote]
...um...we don't know if ppl are sleeper agents or not, genius. To say "we should have imprisoned the russian sleeper agents" is like saying "we should have arrested the spies that we didn't even know existed."

The Russians never directly attacked us, never gave us a reason to imprison any Russian Americans (if there even were any in the US). Japan did. They were held in what you call "camps" for a couple of years until the war with Japan was over. Then they were released. there was no foul mistrateatment. No Japanese were killed. No Japanese were beat up. We just temporarily put them into a place where we could keep tabs on them, and keep our eyes open.

[quoteost_uid0="Nantuko Joe"]The Russians never directly attacked us, never gave us a reason to imprison any Russian Americans (if there even were any in the US). Japan did. They were held in what you call "camps" for a couple of years until the war with Japan was over. Then they were released. there was no foul mistrateatment. No Japanese were killed. No Japanese were beat up. We just temporarily put them into a place where we could keep tabs on them, and keep our eyes open.[/quote]


Are you out of you goddamn mind?

That's the exact parallel to incarcerating all American Arabs right now.

[quoteost_uid0="random website"]
Over 120,000 people, including children and the elderly, were required to leave their homes in California and parts of Washington, Oregon and Arizona. Most people did not have time to store or sell their household goods at a fair price. Some people moved to other states, but the majority went to internment camps. They were only allowed to take few belongings with them, and many families lost virtually everything they owned except what they could carry. Internees spent many years in camp, behind barbed wire fences and with armed guards patrolling the camps. Entire families lived in cramped, one room quarters that were poorly constructed.

In 1980, the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians was established by Congress. This commission reviewed the impact of Executive Order 9066 on Japanese-Americans and determined that they were the victims of discrimination by the Federal government.

On August 10, 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed the Civil Liberties Act of 1988. The Act was passed by Congress to provide a Presidential apology and symbolic payment of $20,000.00 to the internees, evacuees, and persons of Japanese ancestry who lost liberty or property because of discriminatory action by the Federal government during World War II.
[/quote]

The internment of the west coast Japanese Americans during WWII was one of the greatest injustices America ever did to ANY of its citizens. It was ####### racism at its peak. Coercing one group of people to move against there will, solely because of thier ancestory, regaurdless of their right of citizenship or birthrights, with no charges, no reason to believe any of them posed the US harm, not to mention violating the Bill of Rights and making a complete mockary of the Declaration of Independence.

I suppose if the US had interned every last person of British ancestory during the Revolutionary War would have been justified because Britain posed a threat to the colonies. Or by your logic, imprisoning all Southern-born people... reguarless of their allegience would have been justice during the Civil War. Or how about the internment of all Americans who are even born in America, but who's parents have roots in Iraq right now? That's Hitler's biast logic for ya...

And, if you even care to get a real feel for what the Japanese internment camse were like, this site should be useful.