Segregation in the entertainment industry - You suck, holywood.

[Virtual Fighter]

JACK AND BOBBY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KENNEDY BROTHERS. THE KENNEDY BROTHERS NAMES WERE ROBERT AND JOHN. THIS SHOW DEALS WITH A PRESIDENT TO COME. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KENNEDY BROTHERS. PLUS THEIR LAST NAMES ARE McCALLISTER.

If you couldn't read between the lines on what their inspiration was behind that story, than you're more gullable than I thought.
Despite my aversion to "The Twenty," I did find myself intrigued by one of the shows they advertised, a new WB show called Jack and Bobby, made by the creative people behind Everwood and Dawson's Creek (I've never seen these shows, but I've heard they're pretty good). The show focuses on Jack and Bobby McCallister when they are children and seems to ask whether or not their future "greatness" can be seen when they are children, but of course, the family really repesents the Kennedys, something the preview clearly tried to gloss. It's an odd election-year fantasy, nostalgic for some ostensibly more innocent form of politics (which begs the question: how will it deal with Joe Kennedy's business connections?). The other notable creative decision was the choice to essentially write Ted (and half a dozen other brothers and sisters) out of the show. Based on the clips I saw and the promotional photo for the show, it's like Ted doesn't even exist. Now I don't expect TV shows to be historically accurate, and gauzy nostalgic shows about a more innocent past are always going to remember selectively. But it seems that for the premise of this show to succeed, it has to write Ted out of the picture. Otherwise we have a connection to the contemporary political scene, and the nostalgia concept would no longer be quite as possible.

-What does race matter as long as the person can act?

AHA! So you agree with me?

Why is it all these white people are getting chosen if black people or other minorities can act just as well?

-it's the script writer's movie and if he wants an all whatever cast then let him have it. If you want it to change then you write a script that people would want to see made on screen

So you think it's fiar for someone to turn away people of other races from acting in their film, show or play just because they are a minority?

-And why are you acting like the minorites are the only ones with struggles...like I said DiCaprio had to struggle.

No he didn't. Be the time he was 13 he was in a blockbuster hit, "what's eating gilbert grape", he played gilbert grape.

and OOO... one person had a "struggle", that really doesn't support your point. It's really a big deal when one, now a multi million dollar A-list star MIGHT have (even though he didn;t) struggle in the entertainment buisness.

No it's not...how would it look if the George Lopez show had a white son. It'd probably be like this during a first run...
GEORGE: Mom, we're back from the hospital come and meet Max.
*George's mother walks in and looks at the baby in surprise*
GEORGE'S MOTHER: Dear lord that baby's white!
GEORGE: It's not white. It just looks very white because you're looking at him in the wrong light.
GEORGE'S MOTHER: What is wrong with that big head of yours? That baby is as white as the white rice I use to make when you were little.
GEORGE: But you never...
*George yells cut*
[ooc]GEORGE: Hold up this isn't how I planned my family on looking. Mi familia is brown. Brown not white. What's up with this? [/ooc]
ABC Rep: Well you see...we at abc don't believe you guys are very diverse so we decided to change the actors a little bit...
[ooc]GEORGE: A little bit. A LITTLE BIT. You changed the race of my family to white...[/ooc]
ABC rep: Oh no, not your whole family to white just your son. Wait 'til you see your daughter, she's black. And your wife is Asian.
[ooc]GEORGE: This makes no sense...how does an Asian and a Hispanic make two totally different race children.[/ooc]
ABC rep: Magic, silly. You also have a friend who's an Indain wiccan so that we can reach all kinds of races and beliefs...

That obviously isn't gonna happen, but tell me, why is it there were no black or hispanics on friends? Everybody loves raymond? Sienfeld? the brady bunch?

You coudl easily write in a black neighbor, or friend. Why didn't they? racism, plain and simple. Minorities are WAY under represented in holywood, and the white race, even though it's not the majority in america, is still the majority on the TV.

So you see. They can't just add races in because they want or because you're unhappy. It has to make sense. And it has to reach out to the public that may be view that channel. Like UPN is pretty much the black channel. And WB is kinda the white channel. And ABC is diverse. Each race has their own problem. How would it look if a black person was talking about the holocaust and how Hitler tried to kill his white Jewish Family? Or how about a white man talking about how his ancestors were taken from Africa to be slaves?

That actually makes sense, but that is NO reasoning to continue discrimination and racism in the entertainment industry. Tell me, why is it whenever you see an arab on TV, he's portrayed as a terrorist?

And what is this "accurate" bullpoop?

Wouldn't it be even MORE accurate having a show with equal or true to life numbers of whites, blacks, asians and latinos in the same TV show instead of creating a hitler-esc view of life and making every face you see on TV white?

Yeah, it is segrated, but it's segrated for a reason. To deal with issues that most people of that race can relate to.

Oh, so that's your reasoning for stereotyping, so the mass majority can "relate to it"?

So, I can write a charector of a black guy, make him a crack smoking pimp and make him say "WHASSUP JIVE TURKEY MOTHERflipER!?" everyonce and a while because it's "accurate" and people can "relate" to it?

Or is that racist and stereotype? You decide.

But I CAN'T write a roll of a black person in college, because the mass mainstream won't relate to it and refuses to see a position where a minority is in power and you feel america won't "relate" to it?

That's not accurate, that's racist.

Like I remember one time on One on One or the Parkers or maybe it was Brandy. The girl nearly got arrested because someone claimed she stole something from the store. When in fact it was the white girl who left at the same time as she. The fact is most of the time. People will keep their eyes on Black people and those who hang around any "thuggish" looking people. This has happened to me. And I related to it because I am black. And 9/10 if you go to the "white" side of town and you arn't dress approriately then um be ready to be followed everywehre you go and rushed out of every store. If they had made Brandy a "white" girl it wouldn't of had the same effect because that rarely happens or people think it does.

You're black? Then what are you opposing! Wouldn't you like to see a few more black faces on TV?

It's like freakin apartide, I tell ye. White people are a majority and people of other races are the majority, yet they are the super majority on TV.

Do this, and if you won't do it, i'll do it:

Look at all the commercials. Tell me what's the ratio of white faces to faces of other races.

I did it once, I counted 14 - 1. One being non-white, 14 being white people.

Now, does that seem accurate? No, it doesn't. There should be more non-whites than whites on TV, as that is ACCURATE in america.


Tell me, why should TV be any different than real life? Why should TV be controlled by the nuclear family, 3 kids, one mother, one father, and white as their skin color?

[Elena]

This series is NOT based on the life of Jack and Bobby Kennedy.
- http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet.../showid-21658/

AHA! So you agree with me?

Why is it all these white people are getting chosen if black people or other minorities can act just as well?

Ok, you tore apart my reasons...the person has to be able to act and it has to make sense with what the show is trying to say or where it takes place.

That obviously isn't gonna happen, but tell me, why is it there were no black or hispanics on friends? Everybody loves raymond? Sienfeld? the brady bunch?

Friends had lots of guest stars that were of other races. There was a Asian girlfriend...a black woman...a Spanish man...and to tell you the truth if they had written in a black person it would of felt pushed especially if they did it in the middle of the season. Plus I don't think they could of portrayed a black person accurately....

Seinfeld...it doesn't seem like it would of work...I don't know any black people who acted like any of them.

Brady Bunch was during the time of subtle racism what do you expect...

I could ask you the same question about "Family Matters, "Martin" and "Soul Food." So I will, why were there no white neighbors?
I'll even answer it for you: Because they k####est about their own race and what portrayed to them...ever wonder why when white shows do add a black person or white person show they always stick to the stereotypes...Let's take Cuts for example...they stuck a rich WHITE woman to work in a predominantly black neighborhood because she had to learn a lesson. Why couldn't it have been a Hispanic Rich girl? BECAUSE WHITE WOMAN ARE OFTEN THOUGHT OF BEING RICH AND SNOBBY. The Jefferson's did the same thing...so did the beloved George Lopez show....the daughter liked a rocker WHITE guy. Why couldn't it been an Asian?

You're black? Then what are you opposing! Wouldn't you like to see a few more black faces on TV?

It takes time. You can't expect them to just have shows that pop up overnight that are all diverse.

Tell me, why should TV be any different than real life?

It's not. In real life a lot of people hand out with people of their own race. I don't know where you go to school, but at my school all the Asians sit together. Same with the blacks and whites....

Oh, and I'll take you up on the commercial thing...and about the Arab comment...ever look at LOST? The Middle Eastern guy who I guess looks "Arab" on there was not a terrorist he was a solider. You see it takes time...slowly it's becoming integrated. But you have to wait...and like I said...stop talking about it and do something to speed it up. Go make a script that can become a catalyst.

[asshole]

Hey, don't blame this on HOLLYWOOD!
They give us what we wanna see, true?
Well there ya go, we've got someone to blame this on now!

[maddogg223]

im tired of fightin but we still have to fight for equilty in this world. How come superman ainit hispanic or asian. how come batman aint black asian or latino. i think this is sum shady poop we have to deal wit when ppl die in the past to STOP SEGREGATION

[Virtual Fighter]

Ok, you tore apart my reasons...the person has to be able to act and it has to make sense with what the show is trying to say or where it takes place.

What they're trying to say?

So they can make choices on what race gets the job and which doesnt? No, that's racism.

It's not fair that sidcoms have to be 100% one race, with a token race charector here and there, and most of these shows are white. It's not fair for the actors and it's not fair for us as people, because we as a nation are dependant on TV for our moroals and when we see a school with nothing but white faces, we begin to think that's how normal people live, act, ect.

It's not fair "what they're trying to show" always has to revolve around the race in some way.

Friends had lots of guest stars that were of other races. There was a Asian girlfriend...a black woman...a Spanish man...and to tell you the truth if they had written in a black person it would of felt pushed especially if they did it in the middle of the season. Plus I don't think they could of portrayed a black person accurately....

You said it, guest stars. Guest stars as in one episode people that are unimportant to the story.

There were 7 friends, 7 white faces. Why? Is america really that racist that we can't take a diverse group of human beings?

Seinfeld...it doesn't seem like it would of work...I don't know any black people who acted like any of them.

1) Thank god, because I hate sienfeld and really hope EVERYONe on this planet has no simmularities with those charectors

2) That's sort fo a racist sentimit in itself, what you're saying is blacks shouldn't be on that showbecause all the black people you know arn't fit to be in a show about wealthy upper class white people living in new york.

What is that, the holywood form of jim crow laws?

I could ask you the same question about "Family Matters, "Martin" and "Soul Food." So I will, why were there no white neighbors?

That's exactly my point! There's racism in BOTH sides. No white people on the black people shows, no white people in the black people shows, asians arn't getting any attention and niegther are latinos.

It's segregated as HELL. We have the black shows and the white shows and they never mix.

I'll even answer it for you: Because they k####est about their own race and what portrayed to them...ever wonder why when white shows do add a black person or white person show they always stick to the stereotypes...Let's take Cuts for example...they stuck a rich WHITE woman to work in a predominantly black neighborhood because she had to learn a lesson. Why couldn't it have been a Hispanic Rich girl? BECAUSE WHITE WOMAN ARE OFTEN THOUGHT OF BEING RICH AND SNOBBY. The Jefferson's did the same thing...so did the beloved George Lopez show....the daughter liked a rocker WHITE guy. Why couldn't it been an Asian?

So you are in support of using stereotype as a way of connecting with the ignorant masses?

So we can show a latino as a border hopping, taco selling, welfare recieving lazy guy because they're THOUGHT to act like that?

Or we can showblack people as lazy, ignoramuses because they're THOUGHT to act like that?

Or asians as eating dogs, being super smart and being into electronics while also knowing kung fubecause they're THOUGHT to be like that?

Or white people as greedy, rich pigs, because they're THOUGHT to be like that?

No, that's racist, that's segregation, and that's stereotypical. If we ever want to better ourselves as a society we must break the hold of the idiot box which portrays negative statments of a society so far since those times or segregation and racism!

It takes time. You can't expect them to just have shows that pop up overnight that are all diverse.

Don't you think 400 years is long enough?

It's not. In real life a lot of people hand out with people of their own race. I don't know where you go to school, but at my school all the Asians sit together. Same with the blacks and whites....

So, just because us as a society might be racist and still segregated, TV must portray that and even push those roots further down the ground?

What would it be like if during the 60s, the largest show during that decade was one about a black guy being best friends with a white guy? Society would bettrer itself.

So if we keep portraying these racist ststments in a positive way, we will only crumble as a whole.

Oh, and I'll take you up on the commercial thing...and about the Arab comment...ever look at LOST? The Middle Eastern guy who I guess looks "Arab" on there was not a terrorist he was a solider. You see it takes time...slowly it's becoming integrated. But you have to wait...and like I said...stop talking about it and do something to speed it up. Go make a script that can become a catalyst.

Shouldn't it be intigrated by now? It's been 50 years since Brown vs the board of education, when the first black students when to a whites-only school for the first time. 50 years ago, segregation ended. Yet, after all this technology, after all these inovations, our minds still havn;t changed? As a society we are much further than we were then, as an entertainment industry, we are still stuck in the slave plantation.


_

Hey, don't blame this on HOLLYWOOD!
They give us what we wanna see, true?
Well there ya go, we've got someone to blame this on now!

That's like saying It's not hitler's fault millions of people died, he was only representing what his people wanted, so it was there fault and not his.

TV is givnig us our ideas, we're just believing in them and asking for more.

[Elena]

Oh lord your getting on my nerves...you speak about shows you know nothing about...if they put a guest star in a show they do it for a reason.

All of the guest stars the put on friends added to plot....they weren't there as stand-ins. THEY ADDED TO THE PLOT. I could tell you the reasons for each of the guest-stars but I won't it will take too much time. But I recommend you stop using shows you know nothing about. There was 6 friends btw.

So you are in support of using stereotype as a way of connecting with the ignorant masses?

I said nothing of the such. I said that script writers stick to the race they knowbest because...when they don't they usually turn to sterotypes, which i think is way worst then there being an all whatever cast. Atleast that way they are not spreading bad sterotypes.

Don't you think 400 years is long enough?

Ok, I don't know what planet you're from but televison hasn't been around for 400 years...we are talking about television not segration in general. And if you haven't noticed...shows are slowing changing they're no longer the same as they were many years ago where there were perfect little white familys in perfect little white houses. I'll use Desperate Housewifes for example. The people on that show or nowhere near the normal and the richest family on that street is HISPANIC. You see it's slowing happening as I said before it takes time. If it happens to fast it might leave as fast as it came.

TV is givnig us our ideas, we're just believing in them and asking for more.

Uh, no. Successful scripwriters write about things that PEOPLE want to see or they think they want to see. It's not the other way around. If they didn't their show would soon go on hitatus and we'd never see them or their show ever again. I'm not saying that this is a good thing that a black person wouldn't be willing to watch a "white" showbut this is the scriptwriter's job and if they want money then they write what people want....

And uh how come you never answer my question:
Why don't you write a successful script that people want to see on screen? As you see, it's not happening fast enough for you so why don't you do something? Stop complaining about this on forum and go to someone who can do something...or do it yourself.



Edited By Elena on 1114815996

[Virtual Fighter]

Oh lord your getting on my nerves...you speak about shows you know nothing about...if they put a guest star in a show they do it for a reason.

All of the guest stars the put on friends added to plot....they weren't there as stand-ins. THEY ADDED TO THE PLOT. I could tell you the reasons for each of the guest-stars but I won't it will take too much time. But I recommend you stop using shows you know nothing about. There was 6 friends btw.

Who cares? Because what I do know is the plot stayed the same: "6" friends living in new york, sometimes they fall in love with each other.

There. How exactly do these "guest stars" change the plot? Oh yeah, they don't.

I said nothing of the such. I said that script writers stick to the race they knowbest because...when they don't they usually turn to sterotypes, which i think is way worst then there being an all whatever cast. Atleast that way they are not spreading bad sterotypes.

There are more than one writers for a show, you know. And if they aall are the same race *coughracismcough* could they atleast TRY not to make a show that fits them, but fits AMERICA since the show isn't their's but AMERICA'S?

If I write a show, does that mean i'm gonna make it about meixcans, since i'm mexican? Or make a show that represents AMERICA, since AMERICa will be watching it, not just the mexican-american populace.

Even your greatly "friendly" reality TV isn't safe from racism.

Dave chappelle made a VERY funny skit about the real world, saying "They always put one black guy in the house and make him look crazy. No poop! You try being the only black guy in the house and see how you feel." He then went on to showing a skit of "The madd real world", where there 7 black people and 1 white guy.

Very funny. Very true.

I read something very interesting which helps my point that TV is reinforcing racial prejadices:

"Interestingly enough the pattern is protected by the following concept: if you notice this you yourself are racist because no-one's supposed to notice colour. Which goes to show how dangerous being politically correct is, because while everyone's saying they don't see colour, deep down - subconsciously - a continued persistent pattern has to have some kind of psychological impact. Not only on those who aren't black, but also to those who are.

Representations give these contestants few redeeming features and make them one dimensional. There's casting and editing. In fact, the editing of Omarosa has gone overboard. The camera's so desperate to get those shots of her mug being iffy it'll actually cut the rhythm of the main action just to show how terrible she is.

Omarosa is thus disliked because of the type of person she is, and obviously disliking her for this reason is not being prejudiced. But what are the effects on large numbers of audiences constantly not liking the characteristics of a particular type of contestant time and time again?

Michael Moore would suggest that constantly focusing on representing a particular group of people in particular ways gives a distorted social view, and because I agree I would put forward the argument that in many instances the depiction of black contestants in reality TV could be reinforcing racial stereotype and ultimately prejudice."

http://www.tapoopagg.com/tv/racism.asp

Ok, I don't know what planet you're from but televison hasn't been around for 400 years...we are talking about television not segration in general. And if you haven't noticed...shows are slowing changing they're no longer the same as they were many years ago where there were perfect little white familys in perfect little white houses. I'll use Desperate Housewifes for example. The people on that show or nowhere near the normal and the richest family on that street is HISPANIC. You see it's slowing happening as I said before it takes time. If it happens to fast it might leave as fast as it came.

400 years of racial prejadice, reinforced by film, liturature (not so much, thank god for books), music, plays and most of all, TV.

That "shows slowly change" poop is bullpoop. Shows addapt, they don't change. If they were to change you would see things as they truley are, how things are true to life. The prejadice that exsisted on TV that was there when TV first started was.

When MOVIES first got their accademy awards, in 1927 blacks were not aloud to get awards. That rulling was quickly over turned.

So you'd expect black people to be getting awards left and right, right?

Wrong.

Of the 78 best actor and best actress awards given, 4 were to african americans.

That's 5%.

Wanna know why?

1) Racism in the accedmy
2) Racism in those who choose who to pick in movies.

There can't be more minorities winning statues if they arn't picked in movies.

Uh, no. Successful scripwriters write about things that PEOPLE want to see or they think they want to see. It's not the other way around. If they didn't their show would soon go on hitatus and we'd never see them or their show ever again. I'm not saying that this is a good thing that a black person wouldn't be willing to watch a "white" showbut this is the scriptwriter's job and if they want money then they write what people want....

So, what you're saying is making money is better than doing what's right?

And uh how come you never answer my question:
Why don't you write a successful script that people want to see on screen? As you see, it's not happening fast enough for you so why don't you do something? Stop complaining about this on forum and go to someone who can do something...or do it yourself.

Hey, lady i'm not the one arguing with ME. If you're so sick of me "complaining" (even though all I did was write my own thoughts down on a peice of paper and see what you guys thought of it, you're the one trying to change my oppinion, i'm merely deffending my stance), why don't you stop posting?

It's very hypocritical (and this ALWAYS happens) how when people are pushed up against the wall, and can't defend themselves they jump out with the "If you're so eager to change things, go out and do it isntead of complaining on a forum!"

That's hypocricy. Becuase what are you doing? You're opposing me. If you're so tired of it, quit opposing me. Don't tell me what to do.

And another thing, I can't change the entire nation, for god sakes. I wanted to see what would make a good topic for discussion since this god forsaken forum is in desperate need of one.

If YOU'RE so passionate about YOUR stance on this, why don't YOU go out and make more whites-only shows, blacks-only shows and keep pushing the views of segregation into everyone's faces?

[kaoshin]

Yeah racism is bad. but it has made some parts of the world go round. TRULY BUT SADLY! nowadays its sorta better, but in some parts of the world it is still very strong.

[Elena]

That's a lot to reply to...but i'll leave you with this (and try to get back to it later.)
Ok, I told you that they try to protray characters as realistic as possible and I told you that most people hang out with people of their own race which is what shows like Friends and Soul Food does. So are you saying just because you hang out more with people of your own race you're a racist?

[Virtual Fighter]

[quoteost_uid0="Elena"]That's a lot to reply to...but i'll leave you with this (and try to get back to it later.)
Ok, I told you that they try to protray characters as realistic as possible and I told you that most people hang out with people of their own race which is what shows like Friends and Soul Food does. So are you saying just because you hang out more with people of your own race you're a racist?[/quote]
No, but what i'm saying is when NO TV show has a truly mixed group of friends on TV, there's something wrong with TV and there's something wrong with society.