the CAPOEIRA's in BUST A GROOVE 1 & 2 were called that way cause they were using that FIGHTING style for their dancing team !

ever notice they were kicking and doing flips over their counterpart (they were FIGHTING) !

Shin akuma and the boss on king of fighters 2001 are the cheap bosses ever but the boss on KOF 2001 is cheaper. They over did it when they made his AI, he is to puckin CHEAP I HATE HIM DAMMMMNNNNN!!!!!! :angryfire:

Thing that annoys me most as a "cheap" tactic: The use of any/all projectiles. This just pisses me off seeing characters that can through/beam projectiles. I know to "be true" to the manga and characters that they're supposed to do this but bottem line is these moves will/are over used. I think ALL projectiles (including beams/anything where you're not physically touching the other character) should take part of your hyper metter. Games without hyper metters have no business using projectiles.

I wouldn't really have a problem with it... but it's just too obvious that "cheap" players and AI will use it and use it consistantly (ie: 5-6 times in a row EVERY time they use it on average). I'd MUCH preffer a fight that's about how well you can FIGHT and not how often you can beam your opponent with an optic blast or nail them with your Hadokens.


Another thing I HATE is grabs. Honest to god, how often do you watch an old Japanese movie (the ones that are nothing but fighting) and the guys do NOTHING but grab each other? NEVER. That's because it's nearly impossible to grab anyone EVER at the speed your moving. Grabs are made WAY too easy in far too many games. And these wrestling characters who's WHOLE strategy is to grab their enemy and just stream them into a chain would ALL get killed fighting almost any of their opponents in less than 10 seconds.

Zangief vs. Cyclops.. hmm.. do you really think with NO projectiles and moves that slowly, and his whole strategy is to prefform grabs/throws on someone who can blast him back 10 feet every time he so much as looks at him, stands much of a chance winning? All wrestling characters should be put in a real fighting game of their own (not something stupid like wrestlemania) and can have fun grabbing and throwing each other to death, but in these ninja/harcore fighting games we live in, there's just no place for "easy grabs".

Yes, I hate grabs too...I especially hate combos that involve multiple grabs. But, as much as I hate it, it is an established (and effective) part of fighting. I disagree with what you said about the "wrestling" types. Read what I wrote
here if you want to read my full opinion on it, and also on page 18 of the same thread.

I see your point... But I'm talking about games (not real life). No doubt, in real life (and some games) there are NO projectiles and thus the person/character has NO way to keep the grappling/wreslter-like opponent away and would probably get killed.

But in games like Tekken, DOA, and others.. they design the games so that EVERY character can grab their opponent and easily. Once again, I'd like the grapples be left to the grappling characters almost exclusively.

And in games with projectiles, there's just no way a non-projectile wrestling-like character would stand a chance against someone who has beams/fireballs/anything else that can be used as a repetive projectile. Just try fighting a cheap Cyclops player with Zangief. Unless they mess up.. you're dead. Cylclops is faster, jumps higher, and has many, many optic blasts. Of corse I hate projectiles and would like to see those taken out as well...

A couple things I forgot to mention is combos. I don't mind a few combos (2-3 hits) but the gamers just go overboard on it. Adding many combos makes a game good for button rapers and that's just what most people do anyways. Games like DOA, Soul Calibur, and Tekken all have WAY too many combos. Although Soul Calibur and DOA have certain checks for these button rapers... games like Tekken become virtually nothing but combos. The worst example of this being Mortal Kombat where (at least in the Triliogy) you could KILL your oponent with 1 combo. I'd much rather fight someone with no combos at all and it be just about skill than having every button you could possibly pust after the first will start a combo that branches off into many other combos.

And I believe the last thing I hate as being "cheap" in fighting games is giving the AI any kind of advantage that involves it making the other character supperior to your own character without giving the option of turning it off. Several I have fought AI and its character responds faster, has more health, and takes more damage than a human player using the same character. I don't mind it if the computer can pull off the most difficult moves with ease or always knows where you are or how you're going to attack because human players can (sometimes) do the same thing; but messing with the character and making it superior to your own just takes the fun out of it.

I have yet to see anyone do anything really slick with Zangeif. His spinning piledriver is almost impossible to pull off, and most of his regular moves suck (including his air combo). Grabbing the opponent repeatedly literally is the only way to win with him. But as you pointed out, that can be difficult to do when your opponent throws fireballs at you (constantly).

I have mixed feelings on combos. On some games I like them, and on other games, I could do without them altogether. I liked the combo system in Killer Instinct, because you got to mix special moves in with normal moves, which was cool. The combos in Mortal Kombat were pretty lame, I thought. You're right; with certain characters (e.g. Smoke) it's just way too easy to pull off an infinite combo. The combos in Tekken are kind of hard to pull off, and the timing is different for every character. I like the combos in X-Men vs. Street Fighter. Although it is possible to do infinites, they made it so that the higher the hit count in the combo is, the less damage each hit will takes. Plus, it's very difficult to actually pull it off. Like for example, with Ken, I can pull off an air combo in the corner on my opponent, up+roundouse them on the way down, then jump and LP, MK, up+Roundhouse over and over. But if your timing is off even a little bit, your opponent will fall too quicky, you'll lose it and the combo is done. That's what I like about X-Men vs. Street Fighter: yes, it's possible to do huge combos; but a lot of them are insanely difficult to do (especially consistently).

People that abuse Ryu and Ken's fireballs don't bother me too much, because Ryu and Ken are vulnerable for a few seconds after they throw it, leaving them wide open for an attack (plus you can only have one fireball on the screen at once, and it doesn't travel very fast). You can usually punish people that overuse it. Certain other characters, however, enfuriate me. Take Captain Commando for example. His Captain Fire comes out too damn fast. The only safe way to get close to that f*cker is to jump in blocking. And Megaman, well hell, that's even worse, because all you have to do for his fireball is hit HP, and his recovery time isn't very substantial. It's almost like Capcom was encouraging people to be cheap with him.

Just super jump over CapCom's captain fire, and do the same with mega man, the main problem I have with CapCom is his Captain electricity or whatever you call it....

Zangief is not cheap!!!! If u have ever seen me play as him (which i doubt any of you have), i was deemed the fastest, quickest player with zangief by marvel vs. capcom finalists b/c of how quick my 360's were. So, he shouldn't be on the list. Anyway, Cap. Com. is pretty cheap.

Cyclops,Megaman,etc. ring a few Bells right. :corky:
Shin Akuma had the strongest special to M.Bison's Xism Crusher Special. :exclamation:

[quote:post_uid0="Jaims"]Zangief is not cheap!!!! If u have ever seen me play as him (which i doubt any of you have), i was deemed the fastest, quickest player with zangief by marvel vs. capcom finalists b/c of how quick my 360's were. So, he shouldn't be on the list. Anyway, Cap. Com. is pretty cheap.[/quote]
Whoa, DUDE!

If you read the WHOLE comment, you'll find Troy88 is at least mostly (if not wholely) bashing the AI Zangief. I'm on his side about that part. When the AI controls Zangief, if you make a mistake and get grabbed, you'll lose a TON of health (almost half) in a single move. And if AI Zangief gets you in a super.. you're pretty much dead.

But a human controlled Zangief is much different because NO ONE can pull off several perfect 360's EVERY time they grab you. In summary, the AI makes Zangief look easy to kill people with, turning him into a "cheap and annoying character". But in reality, a character that has NO projectiles, is that slow, and who's jumps are very limited, requires much skill to use effectively; therefore any way a human player is using Zangief against another player is hard to call cheap.