Neo vs ryu - Who would win in a fight

[Nantuko Joe]

the answer is no !
neo can do a lot of things in the matrix...
but really, if he doesn'T even see the matrix or doesn't be even close to it ! he cannot do #### about it

He was able to hear things in the outside world while in the Matrix, and was able to see into the Matrix when he was in the real world. This all happened. Therefore, if he could do simple things such as hearing and seeing w/o being in contacts with the Matrix, then he could indeed develop the ability to INTERACT with the Matrix, even though he's not connected.

i continu to say that if the mind knows it, the body can follow to some extent !
example:
in the matrix he they can jump from building to building !
in realaity those rules they bent to do it cannot be bent now, so they cannot !
but fighting with martial arts that doesn't requires those high stunts is very very very very possible even in the real world !
true that neo cannot do high flying stunts while outside the matrix, but that doesn't mean he cannot use what he learned in the real world !

NO! You're wrong there...jumping from building to building in the Matrix requires NO bending of the rules. The only one that can bend the rules of the Matrix is Neo. Yet, Trinity and Morpheus were both able to jump great distances (one building to the other) with ease. Although Morpheus talked much about bending and breaking the rules and controls, he was never able to do it. The only ones capable of breaking the Matrix's rules and controls are Neo, Agents, and Smith (as well as the ghosts)

so again, why wouldn't neo be able to use his martial arts techniques in the real world ?
how hard is it to do the simple moves we saw in the first movie ?

Because like I said, although the mind knows how to do them, the body probably lacks the ability to do them PHYSICALLY. Take viper's example for instance. His whole life he was able to WALK, RUN, SWIM, do anything a normal person is able to do while INSIDE the Matrix. However, when he was unplugged, his muscles had to be rebuilt in order for him to do those things OUTSIDE the matrix. This proves my point: the mind may know HOW to do things (such as walk), but the body cannot PERFORM them (Neo is unable to walk and move because his muscles are NOT CAPABLE of doing it).

i add this because of your first comment about my theory and the fact that morpheus cannot do it as well !
didn't morpheus said that all neo had to do was to actually free his mind to be able to do everything he wants in the matrix ?
if so, then why is morpheus still not capable of doing the same things as neo ?
trinity as well if ya want to...
they say that neo just need to believe he can do it to be able to do so...
then why isn't the others capable of doing while they were actually been doing this for the last years ?
that's what makes the MATRIX STORY looking like bullpoop !
so i say, the bond between neo and agent smith is there, but not between morpheus and agent smith. so it didn't affect morpheus !

To say the bond only affects Neo and Smith and not Morpheus is stupid...it leaves a HUGE hole in your theory. Morpheus tells Neo to free his mind, and if he can believe he can do the martial arts, then he CAN do the martial arts. If he can believe he can jump one building to another, then he CAN do it. Neo is capable of doing HIS abilities because he is not like Morpheus...he is the reincarnation of the One.

About the bond...there is no bond. WHy? Smith said that some of Neo's programming RUBBED OFF on him. What happened was that Smith gained the information on how to replicate, etc. They are not connected. It was a TRANSFER of information. If I send you an email, our computers are NOT connected, there is no bond between our computers. Therefore, if you believe that Smith using his replication on Neo and having it interrupted gave Neo new abilities, then you'd have to say that Morpheus would have gotten the same abilities, because he underwent the same procedure.

[SSJKarma]

nantuko:
i think you missunderstood what i said !

let me resay what i asked you...
HOW CAN A SIMPLE PUNCH BE NOT POSSIBLE IN THE REAL WORLD ?

let me recap what you're saying...
you say that, in the real world, neo's muscles aren't enought for him to walk or do martial arts !
for all i know a lot of martial arts requires a basic strenght to be good !
example would be JUDO which is using the strenght of others against themselves !
other example...
neo is coming, running at someone then jump kick him !
how hard is that ?
anyone even one who never did martial arts can do that !
so again, saying neo cannot do martial arts that he learned, because of his muscles not capable of giving the required strenght to do them is completely stupid, cause a lot of martial arts doesn't even need strenght to be done !

once you know the moves, its easy to try and do them as well !

as for morpheus capable of stepping from building to building...
morpheus said the rules in the matrix aren't different from any other computer system ! which basically means that in order to do those high flying jumps, they had to believe they could as well as bending the gravity physic so they can actually do it !

that's what morpheus said, but what he also meaned, was that those simple matters, was all they could do, but neo could go over those borders !

if you didn't understood that then you completely misunderstood the whole movie !

example:
neo hacks into a bank computer system !
trinity hacks into another one !
since the matrix is basically a system like the rest. why wouldn't they be able to hack into it which is exactly what they are doing which the phone lines !

also, morpheus was referring to the fact that to be able to hack into the matrix, you gotta hack your own mind and make him do what you want to do !

so basic bending is really possible for everyones.
but what neo does (flying and the likes) no one ever suceeded in going that far in hacking ! that's why he is the one !

[slash_2025]

Okkkkk this topic is getting way out of hand and too much "explaining" goin on so maybe someone should close this topic soon. ( I have no clue why I posted here.....)

[Nantuko Joe]

nantuko:
i think you missunderstood what i said !
let me resay what i asked you...
HOW CAN A SIMPLE PUNCH BE NOT POSSIBLE IN THE REAL WORLD ?
let me recap what you're saying...
you say that, in the real world, neo's muscles aren't enought for him to walk or do martial arts !
for all i know a lot of martial arts requires a basic strenght to be good !
example would be JUDO which is using the strenght of others against themselves !
other example...
neo is coming, running at someone then jump kick him !
how hard is that ?
anyone even one who never did martial arts can do that !
so again, saying neo cannot do martial arts that he learned, because of his muscles not capable of giving the required strenght to do them is completely stupid, cause a lot of martial arts doesn't even need strenght to be done !

No, you apparently misunderstood what I said. Or rather, what I DIDN'T say. Did I ever say he couldn't throw a simple punch? No. Did I ever say he couldn't throw a kick? No. Did I say he couldn't do simple stuff such as "running at someone then jump and kick them?" No. Did I say that he can NOT use the true forms of these martial arts, such as running up walls IN REAL LIFE, doing all kinds of reversals, and being able to fight off multiple opponents, and pulling off moves such as the lobby gunfight from the first movie? YES. Like I said, he cannot do these things because the body is not as flexible as the mind. His mind can do things his body cannot. You have to look at more simple things. In the Matrix, his mind can imagine his hair (the residual self-imaging), and can get rid of the holes in his body, when in real life he has very little to no hair, and he DOES have holes. When he is performing martial arts in the matrix, his mind is capable of doing it even though his body is not. Let me use an example:

Remember what Morpheus said about residual self imaging, which is how the character appears inside the Matrix. In real life, at the time (first movie), Neo was near-bald with holes in his body. However, his MIND saw himself with NO holes and LONG hair. Therefore, the mind can imagine in the Matrix what is not there in real life. Now, let's say Neo gets his arm chopped off in real life. In the Matrix, he would have TWO arms, the missing arm would be replaced, because his mind IMAGINED him with both arms. Now, according to your theory, if Neo can fight with two arms inside the Matrix, he can fight with two arms outside the matrix. However, this would be imposible, because he'd only have one arm.

So, using that as an example, a simple punch using your right hand is not possible in the real world if the person does not possess a right hand in real life.

as for morpheus capable of stepping from building to building...
morpheus said the rules in the matrix aren't different from any other computer system ! which basically means that in order to do those high flying jumps, they had to believe they could as well as bending the gravity physic so they can actually do it !
that's what morpheus said, but what he also meaned, was that those simple matters, was all they could do, but neo could go over those borders !
if you didn't understood that then you completely misunderstood the whole movie !

Um, no, I understand the movie fine. Morpheus did indeed say that the rules of the Matrix are no different from the rules of a program: that they can be bent and broken. He said that Neo can be stronger and faster than anyone because he can break the rules. However, by using logic and common sense, you'd realize that if Morpheus tried hard enough, he could also break these rules and boundaries just as Neo can. He said that if you free your mind, you can do anything. So if Morpheus merely took his own advice, he could do anything Neo can do. This is apparently a minor plothole on the Wachowski Brothers' part. (I found another BIG one too, but it's off-topic)

example:
neo hacks into a bank computer system !
trinity hacks into another one !
since the matrix is basically a system like the rest. why wouldn't they be able to hack into it which is exactly what they are doing which the phone lines !
also, morpheus was referring to the fact that to be able to hack into the matrix, you gotta hack your own mind and make him do what you want to do !
so basic bending is really possible for everyones.
but what neo does (flying and the likes) no one ever suceeded in going that far in hacking ! that's why he is the one !

Umm...exactly what did I say that your quote is referring to? And to hack the matrix, you do NOT have to "hack your own mind." Like i said (twice already....you decided not to read it i guess), it is FACT that Neo can interact with the real world while in the Matrix, and it is FACT that Neo can interact with the Matrix even when he's unplugged and 100% outside the Matrix. This is shown to a very slight extent in the first film (hearing Trinity's voice), an even higher extent in the second film (making his prediction and stopping the Sentinal), and will be fully developed by time the third film rolls around.

And Neo is not "the One" just because he can hack into the Matrix. It has nothing to do with it. Just wait until the third movie...you'll see. Neo is "the One' because Morpheus believes it. However, you'll see in the third movie that there is no such thing as "the One." If you saw Reloaded, you'd know that The Prophesy was BS. There is no "The One." What The Oracle said was false. And I can almost predict that in the third movie, Neo will show everyone what I'm telling you now: that ANYONE can do what Neo can do. It just requires a higher level of concentration and ability.

"The One" is merely a title given to someone who can develop their in-Matrix abilities to the extent that Neo can. Take the first movie for instance. When Neo goes to see the Oracle, he is sat in a room with "the other Potentials." Each and every one of them had some form of the power that Neo ended up with. The young bald child had the ability to bend matter. Two of the girls had the ability to levitate blocks (which is ultimately a lesser form of Neo's ability to stop bullets). If these Potentials were given enough time, they could fully develop their ability, and then there would be more people with Neo's abilities....MORE people who would be just as powerful as Neo, proving that there is no SINGLE "The One," but that EVERYBODY is capable of doing what Neo can do.

Okkkkk this topic is getting way out of hand and too much "explaining" goin on so maybe someone should close this topic soon. ( I have no clue why I posted here.....)

Why should the topic be closed, and how is it getting "out of hand?" Because a frigging spamming nQOb can't understand what we're talking about? How about you simply don't frikkin read it, instead of biotching that you don't understand what's goin on.

[Roll's Friend]

Neo would stop a hadoken just how he would stop a bullet... :shocked:

[alamgir]

neo can see the matrix in the real world but he cant control it from there. If he could he could destroy anything that was bad inside the matrix like those white haired agents! duh. Ok i am not sayin no more about this topic becos look the matrix is a film street fighter is a game none of them are real so stopr arguein and waistin time on something thats not true!

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[Nantuko Joe]

neo can see the matrix in the real world but he cant control it from there. If he could he could destroy anything that was bad inside the matrix like those white haired agents! duh. Ok i am not sayin no more about this topic becos look the matrix is a film street fighter is a game none of them are real so stopr arguein and waistin time on something thats not true!

First off, they weren't agents, they were ghosts. And he can't do it YET, because his abilities are not that powerful yet.

[G_GUNDAM]

i dont believe a person made this stupid topic. i mean isnt if obvious. neo would beat the crap out of ryu. but outside of the matrix neo would be ryus bitch

[devilsoul]

yea and now i think it would be good 2 close this thread now