Neo vs ryu - Who would win in a fight

[alamgir]

listen in the matrix ryu will die easily but now i have found out that even in the real world he can also die becos in the matrix reloaded neo suddenly realises he has power in the real world at the end.

[SSJKarma]

why is that everyone votes for who they loves the most ?

RYU wouldn't be sure to win....
FACT... if you know how to fight, you know it !
be it in the real or virtual world, so techniques talking, neo as all the chances he needs against RYU !

FACT : RYU IS A ####### NORMAL GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so why would neo be sure to be killed ? surely not because he is just a normal human cause ryu is one too. ryu has advanced knowledge that neo doesn't like ki projection, but that's mainly all !
other then that, neo have all his chances.

and for the one who says neo has power in the real world also... then you didn't understand that killing 5 sentinels made go out of consiousness for an unlimited time !

so no, i don't think (in the real world) that they can either win it easily ! the one who would win is more likely to be ryu with his ####### hadoken, but other then that, ryu and neo in real world are the same !

now everyone stop the flaming if ya don't want this topic closed !
(i do hope someone's close it)

[Nantuko Joe]

Just like the Neo vs Goku topic, i'll repeat myself.

Inside the Matrix, Neo would defeat Ryu with ease. Neo is faster than Ryu, and knows every martial art known to man. Any of Ryu's supers/specials/whatever can be dissipated by Neo's abilities (he can stop them just like he can stop bullets). Therefore, Neo would win inside the Matrix.

Outside the Matrix, however, is a different story. Neo can use the martial arts inside the Matrix because he's only using his mind, not his own physical abilities. Therefore, he is unable to use the martial arts outside the Matrix. Therefore, Ryu would have a very big edge in the fight outside the Matrix.

alamgir: Neo was able to use the self-projected EMP on the Sentinal outside the Matrix for a very simple reason. All of the sentinals are connected to the Matrix. All of the machines (run by the machines) are connected to the Matrix. Therefore, because Neo can use his powers inside the Matrix, he is able to control and stop the Sentinals because they are connected to the Matrix.

He can NOT use his abilities on Ryu outside the Matrix, because Ryu is not a machine connected to the Matrix. Therefore, Neo's powers are useless outside the Matrix against Ryu.

So if he develops his abilities further, he can control the machines outside the matrix (something that they will introduce in the third movie)

[SSJKarma]

nantuko:
let me give you an example of what i say about MIND and BODY !

if the MIND is the thing that makes the body works, then what the mind knows, the body follow !

so yeah, i do think that what he learned (martial arts) can be used even in real life !
its goes like that...
if your mind doesn't know it, your body cannot do it !
like walking or eating, if you never learned to use your legs to learn and always walking on your knees, then how can the person 's mind know it ?

its as simple as that !
so if he neo learned kung fu !
then he knows it in real life too !

example of my theory:
neo on the chair, after learning it, said... I KNOW KUNG FU !
wasn'T he in the real world when he said it ? if so then why wouldn't he be able to use in real life as well ?

the only thing that he can do in the matrix while fighting that he cannot do outside of it... is the crazy not-possible moves he did ! but as its been seen while fighting morpheus... he can easily do basic fighting and really knows the different martial arts. (remember, at that time he wasn't knowing about the system rules)

also, against that chinese guy in the second movie, also basic fighting ! not fancy moves that completely goes against the laws of physics !

so i ask again, how couldn't he be fighting outside the matrix ?
if the mind direct the body and make him do things, then its clear that neo also knows the martial arts and can do them in real life !

as for the sentinel things...
i doubt it to be the truth nantuko ! it would be to moronic and stupid !

my theory is this one...
AGENT SMITH, when destroyed by neo, gained access to what neo was able to do, modifying code and the likes, neo without knowing it altered the code of agent smith and made him a complete program all by himself.

now, when neo was about to get erased and replaced by agent smith (duplicate) the bond between both gained strenght, thus giving neo the same kind of link that agent smith had while in this guy outside the matrix !

which means... neo have partial control over the machines in the real world !

why is your theori moronic and stupid...
because neo wasn'T even in the matrix, he wasn't seeing any codes, he wasn'T anywhere near the matrix code... so how could he be controlling them thru the matrix ?

other theory that i have, but still a little stupid.. tho it would be non-expected !
they were still in the matrix !
as in, the machines realoaded the matrix already and made it be in that day so neo think he is in the real world !
but that's only my second guess... i doubt its this thou !

[Nantuko Joe]

Just because the mind knows how to do it doesn't mean the body is fit to be able to execute it. If my legs are chopped off tomorrow, i'll still KNOW HOW to walk, i am just unable to do it because i'm not ABLE to do it. The same is for the matrix. In the Matrix, you use your mind. When Neo uses his martial arts in the matrix, it is independent of his physical strength, stamina, and speed. For example, take the first movie. When Neo said that he lost to Morpheus because Morpheus was stronger and faster, Morpheus said that his being stronger and faster had NOTHING to do with his muscles (aka: PHYSICAL status) while in the Matrix. Therefore, even though Neo knows every martial art in the world while in the Matrix, he would probably be unable to use them in real life, because in real life, he would be dependent on his own physical body, while in the matrix, he is dependent on his mind. Do you really think that Trinity is capable of leaping from one building to another (like she did in the opening of the first movie) in real life? Doing that did NOT break the system rules and controls of the Matrix (unlike the movements of the Agents and Neo), it required her mind to believe that she could do it.


As for the controlling the Sentinals thing....you think MY theory is moronic and stupid? Yours is the dumbest one i've ever heard. First of all, what you said was NOT the reason why Smith is able to copy himself. Smith even said he has no idea why he was able to replicate himself. What he said was HIS theory, but not FACT. Also, there IS NO bond between Neo and Smith. A bond would mean that the two of them were somehow connected, which is not the case. If Smith's theory is true, then yes, some part of Neo's programming rubbed off on Smith's own. However, when Neo resisted Smith's cloning ability, he resisted all of it. Smith's cloning ability would NOT give Neo any more abilities. If this was the case, wouldn't Morpheus get the same type of ability? He was being cloned, yet the process was halted when Neo knocked Smith away. Therefore, wouldn't that give Morpheus control over the machines?

Now, in the first movie we are shown that the Sentinals (as well as all the other enemy machines) are connected by the Matrix. Until he gets the ability to replicate himself, Smith can NOT interact with the real world...his existence is limited to the Matrix. Yet, he specifically tells another agent "Deploy the Sentinals." Therefore, the actions of the enemy machines in the real world can be controled by agents and programs that run INSIDE the matrix. Now, Neo has no real power in the real world...his only ability is to be able to control aspects of the Matrix. Now, because the Sentinals are connected to the Matrix, he has control over them. If he can control the Matrix, he can control ALL aspects of the Matrix, including machines connected to it. He passed out afterwards because apparently these abilities will require more training and development before he can use them to their full potential. I never said Neo controlled them THROUGH the Matrix. He does not need to see the Matrix code to use Matrix-altering abilities. As you know, (it is definately implied, prolly stated in the movie) that Neo is beginning to develop the same powers as the Oracle. In other words, he can sense events in the Matrix while outside, and vice versa. When he is plugged into the Matrix, he can sense what is happening outside the Matrix. He was able to HEAR Trinity yell his name at the end of the first movie, when the Sentinal was coming closer to them, and then when he heard her, he ran to the phone. He also predicted (in a dream sequence, which would be sight and mind) that Trinity would be shot fighting an Agent, and it came true. Therefore, Neo can somewhat interact with the Matrix when he isn't even plugged into it! Now, it seems that throughout Reloaded this ability was given time to grow, and I believe that the simple sight/hearing and dream/prediction interaction grew and developed into the ability to CONTROL aspects of the Matrix, even when he isn't plugged in. Now, because the Sentinals are connected to the Matrix, they are now considered aspects of the Matrix....aspects that are subject to Neo's new control. He passed out because of the amount of force he exerted (stopping and disabling three Sentinals) on his first try, and apparently such massive use of his abilities left him completely drained (like in DBZ when they use all their power in a single attack, they get drained). THAT is the most logical theory concerning Neo's outside-the-Matrix ability. It's an extention of his in-Matrix ability, the ability to control the Matrix and whatever is connected to it.

[shin~bison]

[quoteost_uid0="Nantuko Joe"] See post above...and shin, NEVER quote this much again unless theres a purpose.[/quote]
whoa... :biggrin: lot of explaining there... I get your theory but I guess I'll go with a basic principle as long as it's in the matrix NOTHING WOULD DEFEAT NEO.. but I've not seen him do enough things to make him stand a chance against ryu in the real world

And Joe... Is there anylimit to Neo's powers? Cause it seems revolutions would be whoa! :biggrin:



Edited By viper2040 on May 25 2003 at 16:47

[PSYCHO]

matrix reloaded really sux
xmen2 ownz it
and uh.. ryu would win.

[bloodpack]

come one ppl
dont take all this $hit seriously
both ryu and neo are just fiction
theres no such thing as matrix and theres no such thing as ryu's hadoken

ppl tend to exagerate thing...

[SSJKarma]

BLOODPACK: exactly what i said in the first place !

NANTUKO: you gotta admit this...

MORPHEUS:"the body cannot live without the MIND !"
so basically that meant that the MIND cannot LIVE without a BODY !

so basically, your theory prooves nothing !
example:
you made a program called MYPROGRAM, you upload it to the web so people can play with it !
you lose the source code to it...
can you change it and continu upgrading it if you cannot even touch the code or doesn't even have the program anymore ?

the answer is no !
neo can do a lot of things in the matrix...
but really, if he doesn'T even see the matrix or doesn't be even close to it ! he cannot do #### about it !

and as far as i know...
neo has everything he has, he still ahave all his members. training can give him the strenght he needs and the stamina of it !
how hard is it to do a simple punch ?
how many strenght does it need to do it and how much speed does it need to give that same punch ?
don't even tell me that neo isn't even capable of doing those. kicks and punches aren't hard to do, i started learning moves that i wasn't able to do a lot of time ago, but now i can do them easily.

i continu to say that if the mind knows it, the body can follow to some extent !
example:
in the matrix he they can jump from building to building !
in realaity those rules they bent to do it cannot be bent now, so they cannot !
but fighting with martial arts that doesn't requires those high stunts is very very very very possible even in the real world !
true that neo cannot do high flying stunts while outside the matrix, but that doesn't mean he cannot use what he learned in the real world !

the kicks and punches aren'T that hard to do, they doesn't requires the strenght of speed that neo has in the matrix to be executed well, he just have to know how to do them properly which he actually knows pretty damn well !

so again, why wouldn't neo be able to use his martial arts techniques in the real world ?
how hard is it to do the simple moves we saw in the first movie ?

BTW: my friend can really do 4 or 5 steps on a wall before gravity gets him back to earth !

EDIT:
i add this because of your first comment about my theory and the fact that morpheus cannot do it as well !

didn't morpheus said that all neo had to do was to actually free his mind to be able to do everything he wants in the matrix ?
if so, then why is morpheus still not capable of doing the same things as neo ?
trinity as well if ya want to...
they say that neo just need to believe he can do it to be able to do so...
then why isn't the others capable of doing while they were actually been doing this for the last years ?

that's what makes the MATRIX STORY looking like bullpoop !
so i say, the bond between neo and agent smith is there, but not between morpheus and agent smith. so it didn't affect morpheus !



Edited By SSJKarma on May 25 2003 at 12:53

[viper2040]

allow me to interject something...i know some basic shotokan karate, as well as having had around 2 years of taekwando. I KNOW many techniques, but cannot perform them anymore due to deteoriation of skills and balance. SSJKarma has a point to some extent, but knowledge alone would not make neo an expert in martial arts in the real world.

just as neo had trouble walking when he first came out of the matrix, though he knew how to do it, he would find him self having trouble with martial arts the first time he uses them.

Further, i didnt see the movie, but this self projected EMP im hearing about would have little or no effect on ryu. EMPs may7 eventually cause cancer or complications to living tissue, but are designed to **** up electronics. That energy wave or ryu's, however, would either travel at the speed of electricity (about 1/10 or so of speed of light), or at the speed of light itself (i rather suspect it would be the speed of light). Neo in the matrix can only move faster than bullets, and would still be restricted to moving the4 speed of electricity. Thus, ryu could indeed kill him with the hadoken, in OR out of the matrix.



Edited By viper2040 on May 25 2003 at 16:49