Ssj karma, and anyone who thinks tiers don't exist - Come here!

[devilsoul]

[quoteost_uid0="wrestlemania"][quoteost_uid0="devilsoul"]nevermind im just stupid in a way i guess thats why i don't know what you people are talking about[/quote]
stop this nonsense[/quote]
wut the hell u talking about nonsense, how the hell im i sopost 2 know wut the hell there talking about :angryfire:

[DanYankees]

Karma you freaken piss me off with this crap you post. You seriously don't know what you're talking about most of the time.

Tark has explained all about tiers to me. How can you say there AREN'T tiers? All players compete at a different level. Some more skilled, some less skilled.

[da_realX]

ssjkarma, he beat u in a fight didnt he...

[SSJKarma]

yeah, and today can i beat ! yes also !

tiers aren't existing !
the only way you can prove me they exists, is only if you could make the AI fight against himself. see how equal the match is ! see how long it takes for the AI against himself at the very highest point gets KOed, it takes a very very very very very long time !

so i say, if you refer to tiers and refer yourselves to human being to demonstrate it to you, then you are clearly believe RANDOM STATS that changes all the times ! cause the HUMAN FACTOR is composed of so many other items ! like EMOTIONS during the fights, mistakes made during the fights, the controllers used during the fights, the whole contexts, during the fight ! even the environnment changes during the fights which will lead you to even more false results !

again, don't ever give that ####### arguments that say BEST AGAINST BEST is what i based myself on and is the best argument you have, cause even the best make mistakes, even the best of the best have emiotionnal problems, even best of the best can be playing with a defective controller ! even the best of the best can be distracted by the environment !

so how can you say that the human factor is a good result when all of those variables are in effects ?
as far as i know, there is no way to completely erase them all from the equations. so i continu to say that tiers doesn't exists cause no one ever prooved to me that the characters are very very very very very very very very weak in a certain game !

even i who plays with SERVBOT in MvsC2 knows that he is weak in strenght and stamina, but if i can beat my friend who has about the very same fighting skill as myself then it means that servbot isn't necessarely the weakest of them all !

[viper2040]

higher court, eh?
<span id='ME'><center>viper2040 thinks about it...</center></span>


Case No. 1463 TarkanX vs SSJKarma...

Judge TMyApp presiding.

The plaintiff, TarkanX asserts that the defendants continual denial of a teir system is absurd. The defendant, SSJKarma, holds that it is not some fantastical concept as a tier that decides battles, but rather the skill of the two combatants.

Court is now in session.

The court shall now hear the opening statement from the plaintiff....TarkanX? Please State your case.

[Weidi]

[quoteost_uid0="DanYankees"]Karma you freaken piss me off with this crap you post. You seriously don't know what you're talking about most of the time.

Tark has explained all about tiers to me. How can you say there AREN'T tiers? All players compete at a different level. Some more skilled, some less skilled.[/quote]
Lol who are u a walkby?`

but i can say i know same like Karma said! But i wont say they are no tiers.
Cause i just played this games when they came out and i was little boy like 6 or 8 so i made no looking after tiers or something i didn t know.
But there ever was is and will be the thing of Blocking combo blocking hitting blocking get the hit, and also there will be ever a defference between the caracters!
Like u ment tiers i believe.
But i wont say tiers to it, i say a dahlsim have to be a very low tier how i understood but a guile or mrbisions pre man have not best cards.
or zangief for me just can loose against a blanka .
what u wanna do with That hollywood man against da chineese superhero form mortalkombat (dunno the names at moment)

But u can figth and kickass in way enemy wont think, and he will be confused till end of figth, but still a znagif can't win blanka ;P


So tiers doesn't exist they are a just a invention of phantasies to excuse da beat m ruler for loose his game ;P

Thats why i ever play da lowest tier J/K



Edited By Weidi on May 13 2003 at 11:22

[pip99]

at the end of the day when it comes down 2 this game......
LAG OWNS........

Oh for the love of god...

SSJKarma: Look, if the characters were perfectly equal, then they would NEVER have to be tweaked, right?? But because they are tweaked to make them more "even," you can't rationally say that tiers don't exist.

Yes... "skills" have a lot to do with whether one person beats the other. But just try to think with a rational mind for one moment without trying to exclaim every single sentence...

Take the best Ryu fighter in the game and pit them against the best wolverine player in the game. If the Wolverine hosts, there's a good chance the Ryu user will still win. If they Ryu user hosts, Wolverine won't stand a chance. Why? Because no matter what the wolverine user can do, the ryu can just use projectiles to break every last move they have. BBX, drill claw, berserker slash, slide claw, regeneration... etc. Nothing will ever work.

Take another group, pit the evil ryu user against the best chun li user. Chun li won't stand a chance. Why? Wow.. she can super jump and triple jump. Ever consider the air super that freezes your character? ALL of chun li's supers can be cancelled by hadoukens. And best of all, she has NO long range supers, making it almost impossible to hit the opponent with them.

I don't know why you're so hung up with this idea that AI vs. AI would prove that tiers don't exist... it would probably prove nothing more then why human opponents can always do better then the AI.

Tiers exist in every game, this one is no exception. Zing knows it, Tarkan knows it, I know it, TMyApp knows it... everyone with the ability to accept that "everything in the world is NOT perfect" can accept the fact. So please, quit wasting everyone's time with your overly exclamated sentences.

[SSJKarma]

2kwarrior: do you really think BUGS can proove that tiers exists ?
do you really thnk that that super that makes you freeze is really suppose to be in this game ?

if you said no, then you are thinking like myself !
but if you said yes to one of the two or even the two then you are not seeing this like it really is suppose to be seen !

i know a game's not perfect...
but if you had to make a fighting game, would stupidly make a very strong, agile, fast character that beats all the others ? i wouldn't do that kind of thing, so why would any game designer make a character that is playable by all that can easily vaporized all others ! what you are implying is that a higher tier is not capable EVER to defeat a very lower tier ! which is totally false !

a character in a fighting game is done while looking at the others !
if ryu is very strong, then chunli will be very fast. if wolverine is a hand-to hand character then he will have some move that will make him go pass thru the opponents attack so he can be what he is good at !

its always been like that in every single game i know !
example:
ZANGIEF against RYU
knowing all of you, you would all say that ryu is sure to be the winner while i sure knows that it is a false statement !
zangief can as easily avoid an hadoken as he is easy to pull out moves while jumping !
he has moves that can pass thru hadokens and basically all other all other long range moves.
why ? because he is made to attack and grab at close range, never have they made him there just to be beaten by all other chars !

other EXAMPLE:
SERVBOT vs RYU
again, all you'll be saying is that he is a so lower tier that he can easily be beaten by ryu anytimes... but must i remind you that servbot is fast and hard to hit !
see, they all have their counter parts against characters stronger then them which make em more balanced !

if a game has tiers, then i simpoly say that the game is very very very poorly made !

also, what i said, is that if you want to prove tiers to me, you'll have to get rid of the human variable cause it has to much random effects on the outcome !

example:
one day you have 300 person that you pull out stats of, the next day you have 300 different persons and you'll notice that your actual stats have completely changed !

also, your statistique are based on things that we all know is not equally made ! the number of people that actually use the char ! if on 200000 users, 100000 uses ryu and the rest is divised on the different 5 other chars that are in, you'll understand that you statisques are based mainly on the number iof users that actually plays a character which really doesn't make the character a better one !

its not because 100000 users uses ryu that he is better and have better tier then sentinel who has a mere 10000 users !

anyway... by now, i have already told everything i needed to say, nothing much can be said in here cause we all know that statistique says what we want them to say ! i will stop, cause for all i know, you are all so hard believed on tiers that you willl just not aknowledge somthing that goes completely against your sayings !

final word from me, it doesn't exists, cause there is no way to actually prove something like that !

[Weidi]

ZANGIEF against RYU
knowing all of you, you would all say that ryu is sure to be the winner while i sure knows that it is a false statement !
zangief can as easily avoid an hadoken as he is easy to pull out moves while jumping !
he has moves that can pass thru hadokens and basically all other all other long range moves.
why ? because he is made to attack and grab at close range, never have they made him there just to be beaten by all other chars !

rigth, but i stay that zangief wont win if he will be handled by a player and ryu too. Cause he is still to slow in my opinion. Or lets say so i speaking from Streetfigther!!! Not streetfigther 2 3 or what ever came out then!!!