What is the definition of "cheap"? - Page 2

Jerry19 · 04-10-2004, 03:33 PM

Copying the topic I made at BG, are you? :laugh:

http://www.battle-grounds.org/forum/...ead.php?t=7680

[quote]Eh,this was brought up while posting in my "How do you feel about rankings?" or whatever I called it, thread. I didn't want to start a dicussion about cheapness in that thread (since it's off topic and it would ruin the thread), so I made this one to share a few comments.

Ok people. In SFO we have something called cheapness. When ignorant users of certain characters keep on using the same attack over and over. Why? Because attacks like projectiles are the attacks that are most likely to hit your opponet. But doesn't that ruin the game play? Well, this is quite a problem. But most people cannot take it...

Each character has their own special moves that can be used over and OVER, that is considered cheap. Here I'll give you a chart...

Ryu - Hadoken
wolver

OMG_SIR · 04-10-2004, 04:21 PM

i get really pissed at people who are cheap..ppl do alot of stuff to be cheezy. they will host a game and have their high rank friend come. then when u join stick u on the other team and then wait for a #### to come and then stick him on ur team and start the game beforeu can do anything to get out of it. then pick either 2 spideys or like spidey and sent. jump all over the place. rocket punch rocket punch rocket punch rocket punch, double team witht hat shtuff.....yo it makes me wantt to seriously just physically kill. i have a short fuse and things bug me. one person did it to me so bad, then talked so much shtuff that i started doing bad things to their servers. yo i get nasty when ppl piss me off. and i wish spidey and sent were removed from the game....especially spidey because the game has such a lag problem that u cant even see sp

Mr. Big · 04-10-2004, 08:30 PM

the problem is that they complain too damn much. sum1 wana get cheap, you find away around it and kick thier ass or cheap them back. let me tell you about one fight i had today.

one guy, couldexsoldier, fought my wolver

SSJKarma · 04-10-2004, 11:48 PM

well...

ChampionX and 2 other guys were playing around in tag mode with me !

ChampionX on one team and me on the other, i thought he was a vet so i was like sure he wouldn't be cheap...

dang was i wrong... and the other two weren't better !

the fight start, first there was a bug and all four fighters were able to after their win pose were able to fight an all out war for 10 seconds, no special made since were at level 1 !

next...
all fighters except me were like... HADOKEN HADOKEN HADOKEN HADOKEN HADOKEN, SHINKUU HADOKEN, repeat process over and over !

tell me how low people are...

quote from one guy i fought, the fact he defeated me had no importance, only his moves had...

Quote:

SSJKARMA:"do you know anything else then ROCKET PUNCH ?"
?:"In a war there is no cheap moves or anything, everything is good to win !"
SSJKARMA:"look. this is a fighting game, not a blasting fest, get real stupid !"

even tho i agree that this a war... dang, it is also a fighting game, with more then 1 move per chars. come on people get real, there is more then one way to win and doing the same move over and over is far from being the only way to win !

this seems to be even worst since DOR got live !
people are like so hungry for point, that they seem to have became so cheap now a days !

tell me TarkanX... is it me, or am i right to call them cheapos ?

nosoul4evr · 04-11-2004, 01:21 AM

When you see a player repeating the same move over and over again...they are being cheap and rely on chipping damage, and lag for their win, instead of a knowledge of the characters moves and their priorities.

Skilled players know how to get around this kind of cheapness, but with lag it can be nearly impossible.

You can try and advance on, or jump behind your opponent...but it is difficult and you take alot of chipping damage doing so.

Once behind your opponent you usualy need to *cough* hadoken *cough* the sh!t outa them for 5 seconds or more before they finaly take 1 hadokens worth of damage and get thrown across to the opposite side of the screen.
Why is this?
Simple.
Your opponent is spamming the commands so fast that their computer refuses to accept your "im behind you" packet of data.
And since their PC thinks "you are on the right side of the screen"..The player keeps typing and sending the "im hadokening/rocket punching right" until "finaly" you manage to squeek one of your "im behind you hadokening" packets into their PC....and if you so much as get nicked during these 5 seconds, it will put you infront of your opponent again (where fought so hard not to be)

Against some people...by the time you have sent your "im behind you" data and recieved affirmative data in return confirming the acceptance of your packet...you opponent has already moved.
I/E: they saw you coming and they moved before you got there.....and you end up beating on a ghost, because you didnt recieve the "your opponent saw you coming and moved" data.

In the mean time your opponent has spent the last 5 seconds hadokening and powering up...and you are once again forced to have a hadoken showdown...or take alot of chipping damage trying to advance on your opponent again....only to get there, hit them a few times, and they take no damage...simply because they werent there, or they blocked the attack, or they never recieve the "im beating the sh!t outa you" data because they are "forcing" their packets upon you simply by "spamming through" any data you may be trying to send to them.

So are some players cheap/cheating...YES!

...it's like peeling the stickers off a Rubix Cube and putting them all back on in the right order.
Sure they can and "say" they won the game when they show the cube to their friends...but they didnt do it by the intended rules of the game.
Wich means they didnt realy win the game...they cheated, and are lying to themselves by even entertaining the thought that they won through legitimate play.

Repeating the same move over and over again to power up, and/or to create/use lag to your advantage is no different.
By playing like this, they are only lying to themselves when they get their win...because it wasnt skill and legitimate game play that won them their victory.

Heh..i have to laugh.
I have fought many players, and have them quit playing because they say their fingers/hands hurt.
...mine use to hurt too...but that was before i learned how to play the game without the use of millions of projectiles.

Dont people get tired of pressing down, forward, punch for 10 minutes straight?
It's definetly not any show of skill, thats for sure.

Edited By nosoul4evr on April 13 2004 at 04:35

NinjaRyu2009 · 04-11-2004, 01:59 AM

well i know that i lag and some ppl cant beat me so they said i was jumping to mutch doing to mutch hadokens and kicks and said was a Cheater and you know why they sai that becaus they can beat you/me

Edited By NinjaRyu2009 on April 11 2004 at 05:00

pip99 · 04-11-2004, 09:41 AM

MeH read a lot Tark and Nosoul seem right..

But if you cant beat a cheap player then your not a great player simple as.

SSJKarma · 04-11-2004, 10:16 AM

maybe it is just me PIP... but for all i know, many characters were tweaked during DOR, and Priority eems to have shifted for projectiles !

i mean, doing a simple knee thing with sent seems to be cancelled out as easy as it is with ryu's hadoken ! basically my old strategy to defeat these "cheap" players is totally different since now i jump block in, it gets on, but whatever i do when i land, i still block and get hit back to where i started !

only to do what couldn't be done before... is for the game to have change, which we all know DOR hapenned and made a few changes to the characters already in the game !

since things have changed so much... i'm restarting my skills to the basics.
conclusion, i got defeated by startegies that never worked against me before !

i never said i was angry at them for doing these things... but i yelled at them for doing the same move over and over, if by some means they would actually jump in, jump out, and then a couple of kicks or punch here and there and then throw an hadoken i would be the most happy of all fighters !

EvilAkuma · 04-11-2004, 10:24 AM

there a problem with tag so i advice ya to stay out of tag. So don't think that there cheap. I was an observer and it was a 1v1 and boom i pop up. I was like dubya tee eff is this a glitch.

TarkanX · 04-11-2004, 10:28 AM

Yeah, over time, I see that shill and using the characters specific priorities has slipped dramatically. No more are people using normals, specials, and super moves cohesively, but just abusing specials and once they get up to level 1, they immediately use the super.

It's hard to say that people "cheat" on this game; your reference to a rubix cube is good, but to do that on this game is to basically tell the other opponent to not attack so you can pummel them, or to "hack" into the system. If they can't develop any other strategies, or are to lazy to, then that's on that player, but if the player is so limited that only one strategy is good enoguh to win in say... tournaments, then that's not cheap. Like cyc|ops; he has his optic blast into mega optic blast, but can he get close to the opponent or do so serious damage? Or can he take the advantage in an air fight? No, so there are a few characters that need to be "cheap" so they can be able to stay in the fight. If you tell a cyc|ops user to stop using optic blasts, that's like telling a Ryu user to use half of his skill.

Like you said about the rules, they should be perfect, and not allow someone to gain a huge advantage over another (barring the skill of the player), but that's not possible; The host of the game always has a better advantage, and the more powerful computer always has a better advantage. For the rules to stay perfect, you would have to buy computers of the same specs for everyone that plays the game, but you would also have to deal with the "hosting" advantage.

Many players will do anything to win, and yes they aren't doing it the honorable way. People will try to slow down the game so they can have an advantage, or they'll type in the letetr box to distract the opponent. It has really taken away from the fun of the game and has regulated it to anti-versatility.

By the way, if you all want a fun (nostalgiac) match-up, then do these commands:

-Close every program except for SFO game (to reduce lag)
-Lower the screen level (to reduce lag)
-Make a chat
-1 on 1
-Level 0
-No time limit
-Ryu vs. Ryu

Edited By TarkanX on April 11 2004 at 21:33

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04-10-2004, 03:33 PM	#11
Jerry19 Member New Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 62 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	Copying the topic I made at BG, are you? :laugh: http://www.battle-grounds.org/forum/...ead.php?t=7680 [quote]Eh,this was brought up while posting in my "How do you feel about rankings?" or whatever I called it, thread. I didn't want to start a dicussion about cheapness in that thread (since it's off topic and it would ruin the thread), so I made this one to share a few comments. Ok people. In SFO we have something called cheapness. When ignorant users of certain characters keep on using the same attack over and over. Why? Because attacks like projectiles are the attacks that are most likely to hit your opponet. But doesn't that ruin the game play? Well, this is quite a problem. But most people cannot take it... Each character has their own special moves that can be used over and OVER, that is considered cheap. Here I'll give you a chart... Ryu - Hadoken wolver __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://18designs.250free.com/Tags/GoldenStorm.jpg[/img:sig_uid]

04-10-2004, 04:21 PM	#12
OMG_SIR Member New Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 53 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	i get really pissed at people who are cheap..ppl do alot of stuff to be cheezy. they will host a game and have their high rank friend come. then when u join stick u on the other team and then wait for a #### to come and then stick him on ur team and start the game beforeu can do anything to get out of it. then pick either 2 spideys or like spidey and sent. jump all over the place. rocket punch rocket punch rocket punch rocket punch, double team witht hat shtuff.....yo it makes me wantt to seriously just physically kill. i have a short fuse and things bug me. one person did it to me so bad, then talked so much shtuff that i started doing bad things to their servers. yo i get nasty when ppl piss me off. and i wish spidey and sent were removed from the game....especially spidey because the game has such a lag problem that u cant even see sp __________________ eat me.

04-11-2004, 01:21 AM	#15
nosoul4evr Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,343 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	When you see a player repeating the same move over and over again...they are being cheap and rely on chipping damage, and lag for their win, instead of a knowledge of the characters moves and their priorities. Skilled players know how to get around this kind of cheapness, but with lag it can be nearly impossible. You can try and advance on, or jump behind your opponent...but it is difficult and you take alot of chipping damage doing so. Once behind your opponent you usualy need to cough hadoken cough the sh!t outa them for 5 seconds or more before they finaly take 1 hadokens worth of damage and get thrown across to the opposite side of the screen. Why is this? Simple. Your opponent is spamming the commands so fast that their computer refuses to accept your "im behind you" packet of data. And since their PC thinks "you are on the right side of the screen"..The player keeps typing and sending the "im hadokening/rocket punching right" until "finaly" you manage to squeek one of your "im behind you hadokening" packets into their PC....and if you so much as get nicked during these 5 seconds, it will put you infront of your opponent again (where fought so hard not to be) Against some people...by the time you have sent your "im behind you" data and recieved affirmative data in return confirming the acceptance of your packet...you opponent has already moved. I/E: they saw you coming and they moved before you got there.....and you end up beating on a ghost, because you didnt recieve the "your opponent saw you coming and moved" data. In the mean time your opponent has spent the last 5 seconds hadokening and powering up...and you are once again forced to have a hadoken showdown...or take alot of chipping damage trying to advance on your opponent again....only to get there, hit them a few times, and they take no damage...simply because they werent there, or they blocked the attack, or they never recieve the "im beating the sh!t outa you" data because they are "forcing" their packets upon you simply by "spamming through" any data you may be trying to send to them. So are some players cheap/cheating...YES! ...it's like peeling the stickers off a Rubix Cube and putting them all back on in the right order. Sure they can and "say" they won the game when they show the cube to their friends...but they didnt do it by the intended rules of the game. Wich means they didnt realy win the game...they cheated, and are lying to themselves by even entertaining the thought that they won through legitimate play. Repeating the same move over and over again to power up, and/or to create/use lag to your advantage is no different. By playing like this, they are only lying to themselves when they get their win...because it wasnt skill and legitimate game play that won them their victory. Heh..i have to laugh. I have fought many players, and have them quit playing because they say their fingers/hands hurt. ...mine use to hurt too...but that was before i learned how to play the game without the use of millions of projectiles. Dont people get tired of pressing down, forward, punch for 10 minutes straight? It's definetly not any show of skill, thats for sure. Edited By nosoul4evr on April 13 2004 at 04:35 __________________ Helping to build a better player one beginer at a time http://nosoul4evr.cyberfuturism.com [img:sig_uid]http://nosoul4evr.cyberfuturism.com/images/xf.gif[/img:sig_uid]

04-11-2004, 01:59 AM	#16
NinjaRyu2009 Member New Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 82 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	well i know that i lag and some ppl cant beat me so they said i was jumping to mutch doing to mutch hadokens and kicks and said was a Cheater and you know why they sai that becaus they can beat you/me Edited By NinjaRyu2009 on April 11 2004 at 05:00 __________________ [ sig removed, for the second and LAST time. -TMyApp ]

04-10-2004, 08:30 PM	#13
Mr. Big Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 394 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	the problem is that they complain too damn much. sum1 wana get cheap, you find away around it and kick thier ass or cheap them back. let me tell you about one fight i had today. one guy, couldexsoldier, fought my wolver

04-11-2004, 09:41 AM	#17
pip99 Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: birmingham Posts: 7,335 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	MeH read a lot Tark and Nosoul seem right.. But if you cant beat a cheap player then your not a great player simple as. __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://www.boomspeed.com/pip99/wolvgput3.jpg[/img:sig_uid]

04-11-2004, 10:16 AM	#18
SSJKarma Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada somewhere in the province of quebec Posts: 5,445 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	maybe it is just me PIP... but for all i know, many characters were tweaked during DOR, and Priority eems to have shifted for projectiles ! i mean, doing a simple knee thing with sent seems to be cancelled out as easy as it is with ryu's hadoken ! basically my old strategy to defeat these "cheap" players is totally different since now i jump block in, it gets on, but whatever i do when i land, i still block and get hit back to where i started ! only to do what couldn't be done before... is for the game to have change, which we all know DOR hapenned and made a few changes to the characters already in the game ! since things have changed so much... i'm restarting my skills to the basics. conclusion, i got defeated by startegies that never worked against me before ! i never said i was angry at them for doing these things... but i yelled at them for doing the same move over and over, if by some means they would actually jump in, jump out, and then a couple of kicks or punch here and there and then throw an hadoken i would be the most happy of all fighters ! __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://membres.lycos.fr/imagesforum/Banner.gif[/img:sig_uid] "How did you escape my grasp ? no matter, i'll crush you now !" -DB : Lost Soul My Web Site http://membres.lycos.fr/xmvssf/

04-11-2004, 10:24 AM	#19
EvilAkuma Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,847 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	there a problem with tag so i advice ya to stay out of tag. So don't think that there cheap. I was an observer and it was a 1v1 and boom i pop up. I was like dubya tee eff is this a glitch. __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://www.boomspeed.com/resident3/logo.gif[/img:sig_uid] ^It's up running. CLICK ON IT

04-11-2004, 10:28 AM	#20
TarkanX Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 3,043 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	Yeah, over time, I see that shill and using the characters specific priorities has slipped dramatically. No more are people using normals, specials, and super moves cohesively, but just abusing specials and once they get up to level 1, they immediately use the super. It's hard to say that people "cheat" on this game; your reference to a rubix cube is good, but to do that on this game is to basically tell the other opponent to not attack so you can pummel them, or to "hack" into the system. If they can't develop any other strategies, or are to lazy to, then that's on that player, but if the player is so limited that only one strategy is good enoguh to win in say... tournaments, then that's not cheap. Like cyc\|ops; he has his optic blast into mega optic blast, but can he get close to the opponent or do so serious damage? Or can he take the advantage in an air fight? No, so there are a few characters that need to be "cheap" so they can be able to stay in the fight. If you tell a cyc\|ops user to stop using optic blasts, that's like telling a Ryu user to use half of his skill. Like you said about the rules, they should be perfect, and not allow someone to gain a huge advantage over another (barring the skill of the player), but that's not possible; The host of the game always has a better advantage, and the more powerful computer always has a better advantage. For the rules to stay perfect, you would have to buy computers of the same specs for everyone that plays the game, but you would also have to deal with the "hosting" advantage. Many players will do anything to win, and yes they aren't doing it the honorable way. People will try to slow down the game so they can have an advantage, or they'll type in the letetr box to distract the opponent. It has really taken away from the fun of the game and has regulated it to anti-versatility. By the way, if you all want a fun (nostalgiac) match-up, then do these commands: -Close every program except for SFO game (to reduce lag) -Lower the screen level (to reduce lag) -Make a chat -1 on 1 -Level 0 -No time limit -Ryu vs. Ryu Edited By TarkanX on April 11 2004 at 21:33