Gun control in america - flip you, liberatarians.

[Virtual Fighter]

Uh no...hello guns are not the only weapons robbers can use. There are knifes...and such. If you were to eliminate guns there is nothing stopping a person who really wants a gun to go into the black market and getting one....

I would much rather have some theif stab me than have a bullet go through my head.

The availability of fire arms is going up as are the death rates.

" Crime and mortality statistics are often used in the gun control debate. The number of homicides committed annually with a firearm by persons in the 14- to 24-year-old age group increased by 173% from 1985 to 1993, and then decreased by 47% from 1993 to 1999. Firearm fatalities from all causes and for all age groups decreased by 22%. For juveniles, they de-creased by 40%, from 1993 to 1998."

What's the only solution? Deleting guns.

Proof that.

*Prove

"self protection, 32 percent of firearms
owners, or 21,000,000 individuals; followed by target shooting, 13
percent or 8,500,000;

See? "Protection" is greater than target shooting.

Prove this too...

That's an assertion, which mean it's a statment which I intend to prove through the course of the debate. That's what i'm trying to prove, it's not a fact I claim.

How about you try to DISPROVE IT?

My assertion is common sense. If jimmy shot timmy, what should you do to prevent this from happening again? Get rid of the gun.

Don't put it on a top shelf, don't make timmy pay 50% more, just get rid of it and it's the guarenteed way to get rid of the problem.

Deleting guns from america's identity will only have a posetive effect. If we don't have guns at all, (I'm not talking about increasing the srutenty of buying a gun, even though that would help. I'm tlaking doing away with them entirely.) we don't have your situtation becaus there will be no guns to steal.

Wow, you delete all guns from America. Even police officers? Wouldn't that weaken our protection as a whole...now what if Iraqis and all the other people who hate America hear of this?

Ok, maybe just maybe you meant the general public. But what is stopping a police officer from going rouge...and reselling them to the public.

Are you kidding me? dubya tee eff are "iraqis" gonna do? Are they gonna buy a boat and go all the flip over here?

No. That's a dumb theory. I could go on and on explaining how dumb it is, but just take my word for it.

And I did mean to the general public, even though we can do without police shooting us all the time. But, "a cop going rouge" is also a farfetched idea.

But what is stopping someone from buying a nuclear bomb and blowing us all up?

What's stopping the sky from falling?

What's stopping any bad thing from happening ever?

We can'tlive in fear all the time. We know guns are causing problems, why not take them away? We're scared of one small situtation from possibly happening at one point in time? Oh please.

Duh, Bush is retarded. But to ask all of America to give up their guns at the moment is insane. People like to be able to have their protection.

Gun Violence - Young Lives Cut Short

In 1998, more than 10 children and teenagers, ages 19 and under, were killed with guns everyday.[10]

In 1998, gunshot wounds were the second leading cause of injury death for men and women 10-24 years of age - second only to motor vehicle crashes.[11]

In 1998, firearm homicide was the leading cause of death for black males ages 15-34.[12]

From 1993 through 1997, an average of 1,409 children and teenagers took their own lives with guns each year.[13]

Each year during 1993 through 1997, an average of 1,621 murderers who had not reached their 18th birthdays took someone's life with a gun.[14]



Oh yeah, we feel VERY protected.

To ban all guns to me is personally crazy.

I know that it would not be so crazy to ME. It wasn't someone trying to protect themselves which shot my next door neighbor, it was a robber that shot her because she didn't give up the money fast enough.

These arn't miraculous objects that make the world a better place, these objects make MY world and the world of urban life alike a living fliping hell.


"In 1999, there were only 154 justifiable homicides by private citizens in the United States.[9]"

JUSTIFIABLE. As in "He tried to break into my house."

Now, compare that to the 31,000 who die from gun related deaths every year.

That's 0.004% who have sucessfully "protected" themselves.

I believe there should be stricter laws but not ban it entirely. Do you know what kind of civil war that will cause?

Oh yeah, what'll we be fighting with, sticks and stones?

================================================== =============================================

You are not allowed to buy a gun unless you got a permit for it. My uncle just graduated in the Police Academy at Broward Community College which is located in Davie, Florida (just a bit north of Miami). I went up there for his graduation and I had asked him about this new law. He told me people are overexaggerating this new law. You would have to still go through a series of hell to not end up arrested.

Hey, I don't live in florida, I'm only speeking from what I read.

"MIAMI -- It is either a Wild West revival, a return to the days of "shoot first and ask questions later," or a triumph for the "Castle Doctrine" -- the notion that enemies invade personal space at their peril."

It's also known as the "shoot first, don't even ask questions later" law. (JK)

If I had this permit you spoke of, that means if somone is like, coming at me, it doesn't matter if they're a long lost friend and want to hug me, I can theoretically shoot them and won't get fined or imprisoned, right?

A long term investigation, polygraph testing, background and criminal tests/checks, family background checks, etc etc, would take place. Basically, they would even investigate your neighborhood, your friends, your friend's friends, and the whole nine yards.

Seriously, if you didn't have a permit but yet you shot somebody for defending yourself (and the gun is yours), you are still going to jail for possesion of weapon. And possesion is 3 years.

Okay, but still, I can shoot somoene if they come at me, right? Just as long as I don't have a criminal record and have this permit?

Sweet, this will totally reduce crimes.

*rolls eyes*

Florida's Main Law

"10-20-LIFE"

-Mandates a minimum 10 year prison term for certain felonies, or attempted felonies in which the offender possesses a firearm or destructive device
-Mandates a minimum 20 year prison term when the firearm is discharged
-Mandates a minimum 25 years to LIFE if someone is injured or killed
-Mandates a minimum 3 year prison term for possession of a firearm.
-Mandates that the minimum prison term is to be served consecutively to any other term of imprisonment imposed


And if you want to sign a petition about this new law, just goto this site:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...tate.php?st=fl

But that obnly works if you don't fit the "He came at me, I felt threatened, I shot him, nuff said" law.

I also found this which is another peice of evidence to florida's fliped up law system:

Is there a one-handgun-per-month limit on gun sales?
No

Assault Weapons
Are there limitations on assault weapons and magazines?
No

Ballistic Fingerprinting
Must handguns be ballistic fingerprinted prior to sale?
No

CCW Limits
May police limit carrying concealed handguns?
No

Child-Safety Locks
Must locking devices be sold with guns?
No

Gun Manufacturer Accountability
Do cities have authority to hold gun makers legally liable?
No

Gun Show Checks
Are background checks required at gun shows?
Partial

License or Permit to Purchase
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns?
No

Local Gun Laws - Preemption
May cities enact laws stronger than the state's?
Partial

Record Keeping
May police maintain gun sale records?
No

Registration
Are all guns registered with law enforcement?
No

Safety Standards
Are there consumer safety standards on guns?
No

Safety Training
Is safety training required for handgun buyers?
No

Saturday Night Specials
Are there limitations on 'junk' handguns?
No

Secondary Sales
Are background checks required on 'private' gun sales?
Partial



God bless florda and the Bush brothers.

==================================================

taking guns away from people who use them to break the law is a bad idea....they'll start smuggling them in from other countries.

That's a bleak guess on what MIGHT happen. We have no evidence of this happening already, as all types of guns are already accesable to the public.

Let's take a page out of Elenas's book:

Proof it.

people will never stop using guns to kill/rob/everything else against the law, and if you take guns away, well there just isnt anything available to replace it.....the gun is the best invention around for these lawbreakers to use

"In 1996, handguns were used to murder 2 people in New Zealand, 15 in Japan, 30 in Great Britain, 106 in Canada and 9,390 in the United States.[8]"

If other countries have done it so well, why can't we?

Because we fear one another?

Because we have a bleak interpretation fo what will happen if we do?

Becuase we're afriad of ourselves?

[Necro2k2]

You'd be a moron to take away guns. Laws don't stop everything, what kind of idiotic world you living in Miguel? Do your laws stop people from buying weed and other illegal things? Don't think so. Your living in a fantasy world now you have to wake up. Humans will kill this world, no matter how much you want it to change.

[Angel-Eyes]

Gun Violence - Young Lives Cut Short

if you're against guns kiling young lives, then why on earth are you not appalled by doctors aborting babies....

thats just a personal question^, nothing to do with this debate



nowback to topic:

We can'tlive in fear all the time.

you are the one who is afraid mr. VF.......you are afraid of being shot

[Virtual Fighter]

if you're against guns kiling young lives, then why on earth are you not appalled by doctors aborting babies....

thats just a personal question^, nothing to do with this debate

If you want guns so much and want them to "protect you" against the 31,000 who die anually, which is a pretty greusom thing to be affermative for, why are you FOR abortion?

And plus, you're painting things as black and white. This is not a black nor white situtation and neigther is the Abortion situtation. Quit it.

you are the one who is afraid mr. VF.......you are afraid of being shot

Yeah, I fliping am afriad of being shot, because where I live you're more likley to die of a gun shot than of any other death. My neighbor was killed by a gun and the people who owned this house before us was killed by a gun.

Is it effecting me? fliping right it is.

[Angel-Eyes]

[quoteost_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]Is it effecting me? fliping right it is.[/quote]
I know several people who have died in car accidents.....therefore I have a slight fear of dying in one.


ban cars!

[Virtual Fighter]

That's just retarded. There's a posetive effect in using a car. There is no posetive effect in owning a gun. 99.996% of gun deaths are accidental or pruposeful and not protected by law.

What good comes out of a gun?

[Angel-Eyes]

hunting
yes you can use a bow and arrow, but a gun is more efficent

cars
yes you can use a horse and buggy, but a car is more efficent (as in faster efficent, dont want to start an environmental debate)

[Virtual Fighter]

hunting
yes you can use a bow and arrow, but a gun is more efficent

Are we living in hunter-gatherer times that we need to hunt out food? No, we don't. We're living in the post industrialized world and there is a ready source of food in and urban, sub-urban and rural area.

Hunting is for game, for show. It's not a necessity unless you're stranded in the woods, in which case, why on earth is it you haev a gun?

Even if there is a population of people in the united states that needs hunting to survive, WHICH THERE ISN'T, does that justify the 31,000 who die each year?

If I invent a new toy which kills 30% of the surounding populice in a one mile viciinity, should it be legal just because I enjoy it?

No, we need to balance the scale. In this case, guns are a problem, not a good thing.

cars
yes you can use a horse and buggy, but a car is more efficent (as in faster efficent, dont want to start an environmental debate)

Who cares? what does this have to do with the debate? Quit nit picking single phraises in my posts and attack my argument, not cars. (?)

[Angel-Eyes]

[quoteost_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]Hunting is for game, for show. It's not a necessity unless you're stranded in the woods, in which case, why on earth is it you haev a gun?[/quote]
baseball bats are used to kill people, yet we do not ban baseball



btw I will pick all the nits that I want

[Elena]

I would much rather have some theif stab me than have a bullet go through my head.

Uh, I would prefer neither, but atleast if they didn't ban guns I would have a chance of shooting the person dead before they shot/stabbed me.

*Prove

"self protection, 32 percent of firearms
owners, or 21,000,000 individuals; followed by target shooting, 13
percent or 8,500,000;

See? "Protection" is greater than target shooting.

Yeah, prove oopsies.
And you said more times then none these guns were used towards others then target practice. Protection doesn't necessarily mean towards others. Protection could be an animal. And "towards others" doesn't necessarily mean protection it could mean revenge.

That's an assertion, which mean it's a statment which I intend to prove through the course of the debate. That's what i'm trying to prove, it's not a fact I claim.

How about you try to DISPROVE IT?

My assertion is common sense. If jimmy shot timmy, what should you do to prevent this from happening again? Get rid of the gun.

Don't put it on a top shelf, don't make timmy pay 50% more, just get rid of it and it's the guarenteed way to get rid of the problem.

Deleting guns from america's identity will only have a posetive effect. If we don't have guns at all, (I'm not talking about increasing the scrutiny of buying a gun, even though that would help. I'm tlaking doing away with them entirely.) we don't have your situtation becaus there will be no guns to steal.

Well, I believe it's a bad assertion to say that if we delete guns from America it will work this time. Like Nerco said they tried to ban drugs and such from America but don't you still here about people smuggling drugs from Columbia, Mexico and Cuba. Laws rarely stop people from getting what they want to get and for you to ask that all guns to be banned is really stupid because what if this law were to go through and everyone were to get rid of their guns but the bad people. Now, what would protect those good people without guns from those bad people with guns.

Are you kidding me? dubya tee eff are "iraqis" gonna do? Are they gonna buy a boat and go all the flip over here?

I said and all the other countries that hate the USA. And that's a lot. Let's replace Iraq with N. Korea. Is that a better example for you? N. Korea may not be very big but when teamed with Japan or even China what's stoping them from invading the US. China is one friggin 3rd of the world population. And N. Korea and Japan have the technology to blow us up. Not to mention Japan has been building subs since their contract from wwII is almost up. Don't even tell me something like "China would never harm us." N. Korea has China wrapped around it's little finger and if they wanted to team up with N. Korea they would especially if forced.

Oh yeah, what'll we be fighting with, sticks and stones?

1. What makes you think people will give up all their guns?
2. What makes you think people will stop making homemade guns as they do homemade bombs?
3. What makes you think that people won't buy guns illegally?

Don't put it on a top shelf, don't make timmy pay 50% more, just get rid of it and it's the guarenteed way to get rid of the problem.

Ok, let's get even more specific with the probelm at hand. Ok, you get rid of guns...what's stoping kinds from still watching shows like RAW and attempting the moves. So because this is killing people also would you get rid of wrestling? How about football? I hear lots of people die from that and when kids attempt the tackles people also die. And oh no Timmy witnesses a Ninja show. Timmy decides to take a bucher knife and attempt the throwing knifes move. Ok sure banning guns may lower the death rate by a lot but what is stopping kids from modeling after another bad violent behavior such as the knife throwing act. Kids will always model themselves after another person. It's what they do. It is up to the parent to teach them not to touch this and to keep the gun away from the child and have a gun lock on it at all times. To do this Bush should pass a law like Clinton wanted to give a gun lock with each gun sale. I don't think we should ban guns but maybe make it more strict to get one.

That's a bleak guess on what MIGHT happen. We have no evidence of this happening already, as all types of guns are already accesable to the public.

Let's take a page out of Elenas's book:

Proof it.

Hehe...you said Elenas's...
No problemo. Did we not try to ban drugs? And you still see people doing/selling drugs?
Don't you see people still smoking under 18 and drinking under 21? How about making it illegal to even jaywalk but don't you still see people doing it? Ok, so you see people will usually still do something regardless of a law. In fact, sometimes it gets even worst if you do try to ban something because of the high of doing something you know your not suppose to be doing...if you know what I mean. What's even worst is that it's in the freakin' consitution. If you actually ban guns people will really loose hope in the goverment. Which again is why I said the government should make it harder to get a gun. Because as Americans we are somewhat spoiled and to try to take something completely out of the consitution no matter how good the cause is nearly impossible. It was tried once before the NRA stood against it and won.

If other countries have done it so well, why can't we?

Because they never had the thing to begin with. To start without something is easier than to try to take away something that has been with us fro more than century. And damn right we fear each other.



Edited By Elena on 1116129386