Who thinks buu can kick onslaughts a** - Evil buu vs onslaught - Page 5

Nantuko Joe · 10-20-2002, 03:53 PM

Bah...I'm tired of quoting.

Karma, you're wrong about Piccolo. Up until the fight with Nappa and Vegeta, Piccolo was pure evil. However, training with Gohan had made him soft, and had begun to transform him. By the time he needed to re-fuse with Kami, his heart had TRANSFORMED from PURE EVIL to GOOD!

And Vegeta was only PURE EVIL at one point in DBZ: when he transformed into SSJ for the first time, because one's heart needs to be either pure good or pure evil to do it the first time. After that, good and evil were in equal portions in his body, and that is why Babidi couldn't take full control of Vegeta. Babidi can only control the evil in one's heart. But since there was an equal amount of good in Vegeta's heart, he couldn't take full control.

But when Vegeta sacrificed himself to try and kill Buu, his heart had become PURE GOOD, he realized that it was his job to do what Goku had done before and sacrifice his own life to save the lives of the rest of the world. The only reason he went to hell was because of the deeds he committed when he was evil.

princevegetam · 10-20-2002, 04:27 PM

[quote

ost_uid0="Nantuko Joe"]But when Vegeta sacrificed himself to try and kill Buu, his heart had become PURE GOOD, he realized that it was his job to do what Goku had done before and sacrifice his own life to save the lives of the rest of the world. The only reason he went to hell was because of the deeds he committed when he was evil[/quote]
*wipes tears from eyes and sniffs*

so true...

i can remember myself crying watching that episode. and that episode when frieza first killed vegeta. it was so sad....

MasterX05 · 10-20-2002, 07:23 PM

LMAO :laugh: :0 cant breath

SSJKarma · 10-20-2002, 07:47 PM

do you have really understood what i said ?

i never said he was PURE EVIL ! i said that there was more than one way to be EVIL !
and second, remember how goku turn on gohan after getting into SSJ ? then if you have ever notice ! in SSJ you are not GOOD as your heart is filled with hatred and violence ! once in SSJ the person needs to try and stay himself or he would go out and kill the first thing in front of him !

GOHAN in the room of spirit and time had very much trouble keeping his anger for himself ! he was ready to blow up on goku ! then goku calmed him down !

goku had that same feeling about freeza when he became super for the first time ! he was about to explode and wanted freeza to be dead. when he YELLED at gohan for getting out of there, i knew he wasn't so pure ! that is why one SSJ cannot do a genki dama !

vegeta was EVIL at that time and he would have been entirely untder babidi's control... but vegeta was so strong that he succeeded to stay himself ! and no, even if he was on his own, he was still fighting as you remember babidi was giving him order and he had way to much of a headache while fighting that control ! then he ejected babidi from his mind, but kept the power for himself !

Gotenks13 · 10-20-2002, 08:33 PM

Look at what this has turned into. This would happen at the former Senshukentaikai Forum...I really think that Kid Buu would win because of the massive amount of power and speed he has...not to mention that huge variety of techniques.

About this strayed debate, if they were so evil when in the SSJ form, they would have killed everyone in sight, but they didn't. That is because they can control it. If they couldn't they would be in the Oozaru form on the first level. They had plenty of control in this form. How could Goku defeat Buu with a Genki Dama in SSJ3 without being pure good. Remember, the person has to be pure, and in most cases, they are pure good. I'm pretty sure that they have to remain pure in the form. Unless, after their body and mind got used to it and it didn't matter anymore.

Nantuko Joe · 10-21-2002, 05:18 AM

Quote:

GOHAN in the room of spirit and time had very much trouble keeping his anger for himself ! he was ready to blow up on goku ! then goku calmed him down !

The reason Goku had to calm down Gohan was because Gohan's ki was stronger than his body can handle (read my post in XMvsDBZ about ki/strength). If Gohan didn't calm down and control himself, he would have killed himself.

Quote:

goku had that same feeling about freeza when he became super for the first time ! he was about to explode and wanted freeza to be dead. when he YELLED at gohan for getting out of there

He wanted Gohan to get out of there because he wanted Gohan Piccolo and Buruma to be on the spaceship going home in case Furiza tried to so something tricky or blow up the planet. It was not because he was trying to control the evil

Quote:

vegeta was EVIL at that time and he would have been entirely untder babidi's control... but vegeta was so strong that he succeeded to stay himself ! and no, even if he was on his own, he was still fighting as you remember babidi was giving him order and he had way to much of a headache while fighting that control ! then he ejected babidi from his mind, but kept the power for himself !

No, Vegeta's heart had reached a state where good and evil were equal, and thus Babidi was unable to take full control. Vegeta made Babidi THINK he had full control, but ever since the very moment Vegeta "allowed" himself to be controlled, he was in control himself. Had Vegeta been 100% evil, Babidi would have been able to fully take control

Quote:

i never said he was PURE EVIL ! i said that there was more than one way to be EVIL !
and second, remember how goku turn on gohan after getting into SSJ ? then if you have ever notice ! in SSJ you are not GOOD as your heart is filled with hatred and violence ! once in SSJ the person needs to try and stay himself or he would go out and kill the first thing in front of him !

Yes it is true that in SSJ their heart is pure evil. However, because Goku was so overwhelmingly good, the evil in his heart TRANSFORMED into good. There is a difference between ACTING good and actually BEING good. Acting good (in DBZ) means taht you have an evil heart, but simply USE it for good. But actually BEING good is taking the evil and actually TRANSFORMING it from evil to good. That's what Goku and the rest of them did when they went SSJ. It's just that because of Vegeta's evil nature, when he was controlled, he was half-good, half-evil.

black · 10-24-2002, 06:46 PM

[quote

ost_uid0="Nantuko Joe"]When you say "evil buu", do you mean the thin, grey buu that fat buu expelled from himself? Evil buu would lose definately, but Kid buu....kid buu would prolly win[/quote]
sorry but evil buu devored fat buu and became super buu

MasterX05 · 10-24-2002, 07:00 PM

umm no he meant when good buu blew all the steam out of him. Meaning he expelled the evil buu.

SSJKarma · 10-24-2002, 10:59 PM

now i know that you're gonna say something about this and i know you're gonna say something has:"it wasn't in the manga !" but i'll say it anyway...

yes they can control their SSJ form, but their anger is very uprising their heart isn't pure anymore, they fight to stay themself. why ?

reason: when goku tranformed for the first time. MASTER ROSHI sensed the energy and said that if goku wasn't able to control that energy, he wouldn't be himself anymore ! that's exactly what he has done. he was so angered that while fighting freeza he let him go into his 100% power form. mistake he made has freeza was his equal by then. but goku's anger made him SSJ form last forever !

second example...
when gohan got to SSJ2, he did the very same mistake has GOKU did with freeza, and he lost his father cause of that ! and piccolo said it himself... HIS ANGER OVERRIDE HIS JUDGEMENT !

even thou you'll say that it has nothing to do with DBZ... krillin even said it to goku while fighting SUPER 13, QUOTE:"you cannot do a genki dama with an UNCLEAR heart" UNQUOTE he said this while he was seeing goku get to SSJ when doing the genki dama ! the genki dama was very unstable when he got there, but goku somehow absorbed the energy and used it in a single punch !

now, i doubt he could have made a GENKI DAMA has an SSJ3.

Nantuko Joe · 10-27-2002, 11:38 AM

Quote:

sorry but evil buu devored fat buu and became super buu

Actually, he became Ma-jin Buu. He didn't become Super Buu until he absorbed Gohan.

Quote:

reason: when goku tranformed for the first time. MASTER ROSHI sensed the energy and said that if goku wasn't able to control that energy, he wouldn't be himself anymore ! that's exactly what he has done. he was so angered that while fighting freeza he let him go into his 100% power form. mistake he made has freeza was his equal by then. but goku's anger made him SSJ form last forever !

Yes, it was the anger that allowed him to go SSJ in the first place, but after he went SSJ for the first time, he was able to control it with ease, he didn't have to fight the evil. And he could not stay in SSJ forever, it takes an extreme amount of strength and training to stay inside SSJ form

Quote:

second example...
when gohan got to SSJ2, he did the very same mistake has GOKU did with freeza, and he lost his father cause of that ! and piccolo said it himself... HIS ANGER OVERRIDE HIS JUDGEMENT !

Like when GOku went SSJ for the 1st time, Gohan's transformation was out of anger. However, he was able to control it without problem and without evil.

Quote:

even thou you'll say that it has nothing to do with DBZ... krillin even said it to goku while fighting SUPER 13, QUOTE:"you cannot do a genki dama with an UNCLEAR heart" UNQUOTE he said this while he was seeing goku get to SSJ when doing the genki dama ! the genki dama was very unstable when he got there, but goku somehow absorbed the energy and used it in a single punch !

That entire event was bullpoop, since it never happened. I could argue for three pages about how that never could have happened (the actual event), but I won't

This is the conclusion: The first time someone goes SSJ or SSJ2, they need to be at both great power and great emotional stress/anger. However, after that, they can do it with ease. Note: Goku went SSJ for the 1st time, he had a lot of anger. Then, when Furiza was cut in pieces, Goku returned to normal, then powered up easily back to SSj to kill him. On earth, and ever since then, he has been able to go SSJ with extreme ease.

Same as Gohan. He went SSJ2 out of anger, but every time after then, he did it with extreme ease (the "Golden Haired Fighter, vs. Dabura, vs. Buu, etc). They never have to fight to stay themselves AT ANY POINT during the transformation

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10-20-2002, 04:27 PM	#42
princevegetam Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 1,690 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	[quoteost_uid0="Nantuko Joe"]But when Vegeta sacrificed himself to try and kill Buu, his heart had become PURE GOOD, he realized that it was his job to do what Goku had done before and sacrifice his own life to save the lives of the rest of the world. The only reason he went to hell was because of the deeds he committed when he was evil[/quote] wipes tears from eyes and sniffs so true... i can remember myself crying watching that episode. and that episode when frieza first killed vegeta. it was so sad.... __________________ [quote:sig_uid]the strong survive, and the weak just die...[/quote:sig_uid] http://www.boomspeed.com/ssjvegetam/Iori2.jpg

10-20-2002, 07:23 PM	#43
MasterX05 Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,468 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	LMAO :laugh: :0 cant breath __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://www.dr.dk/skum/boogie/_img/235x140/kanye_west.jpg[/img:sig_uid] Kanye west-Diamonds are forever Diamonds are forever Throw your diamonds in the sky if you feel the vibe Diamonds are forever The Roc is still alive every time I rhyme.

10-20-2002, 07:47 PM	#44
SSJKarma Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada somewhere in the province of quebec Posts: 5,445 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	do you have really understood what i said ? i never said he was PURE EVIL ! i said that there was more than one way to be EVIL ! and second, remember how goku turn on gohan after getting into SSJ ? then if you have ever notice ! in SSJ you are not GOOD as your heart is filled with hatred and violence ! once in SSJ the person needs to try and stay himself or he would go out and kill the first thing in front of him ! GOHAN in the room of spirit and time had very much trouble keeping his anger for himself ! he was ready to blow up on goku ! then goku calmed him down ! goku had that same feeling about freeza when he became super for the first time ! he was about to explode and wanted freeza to be dead. when he YELLED at gohan for getting out of there, i knew he wasn't so pure ! that is why one SSJ cannot do a genki dama ! vegeta was EVIL at that time and he would have been entirely untder babidi's control... but vegeta was so strong that he succeeded to stay himself ! and no, even if he was on his own, he was still fighting as you remember babidi was giving him order and he had way to much of a headache while fighting that control ! then he ejected babidi from his mind, but kept the power for himself ! __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://membres.lycos.fr/imagesforum/Banner.gif[/img:sig_uid] "How did you escape my grasp ? no matter, i'll crush you now !" -DB : Lost Soul My Web Site http://membres.lycos.fr/xmvssf/

10-20-2002, 08:33 PM	#45
Gotenks13 Senior Member Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alabama sucks...I'm movin' to Florida when I graduate... Posts: 326 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	Look at what this has turned into. This would happen at the former Senshukentaikai Forum...I really think that Kid Buu would win because of the massive amount of power and speed he has...not to mention that huge variety of techniques. About this strayed debate, if they were so evil when in the SSJ form, they would have killed everyone in sight, but they didn't. That is because they can control it. If they couldn't they would be in the Oozaru form on the first level. They had plenty of control in this form. How could Goku defeat Buu with a Genki Dama in SSJ3 without being pure good. Remember, the person has to be pure, and in most cases, they are pure good. I'm pretty sure that they have to remain pure in the form. Unless, after their body and mind got used to it and it didn't matter anymore. __________________ O6' MUTHA SMUCKA!!!!!

10-20-2002, 03:53 PM	#41
Nantuko Joe Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Right behind you... Posts: 1,479 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	Bah...I'm tired of quoting. Karma, you're wrong about Piccolo. Up until the fight with Nappa and Vegeta, Piccolo was pure evil. However, training with Gohan had made him soft, and had begun to transform him. By the time he needed to re-fuse with Kami, his heart had TRANSFORMED from PURE EVIL to GOOD! And Vegeta was only PURE EVIL at one point in DBZ: when he transformed into SSJ for the first time, because one's heart needs to be either pure good or pure evil to do it the first time. After that, good and evil were in equal portions in his body, and that is why Babidi couldn't take full control of Vegeta. Babidi can only control the evil in one's heart. But since there was an equal amount of good in Vegeta's heart, he couldn't take full control. But when Vegeta sacrificed himself to try and kill Buu, his heart had become PURE GOOD, he realized that it was his job to do what Goku had done before and sacrifice his own life to save the lives of the rest of the world. The only reason he went to hell was because of the deeds he committed when he was evil.

10-24-2002, 06:46 PM	#47
black Junior Member New Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 10 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	[quoteost_uid0="Nantuko Joe"]When you say "evil buu", do you mean the thin, grey buu that fat buu expelled from himself? Evil buu would lose definately, but Kid buu....kid buu would prolly win[/quote] sorry but evil buu devored fat buu and became super buu

10-24-2002, 07:00 PM	#48
MasterX05 Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,468 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	umm no he meant when good buu blew all the steam out of him. Meaning he expelled the evil buu. __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://www.dr.dk/skum/boogie/_img/235x140/kanye_west.jpg[/img:sig_uid] Kanye west-Diamonds are forever Diamonds are forever Throw your diamonds in the sky if you feel the vibe Diamonds are forever The Roc is still alive every time I rhyme.

10-24-2002, 10:59 PM	#49
SSJKarma Senior Member Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada somewhere in the province of quebec Posts: 5,445 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	now i know that you're gonna say something about this and i know you're gonna say something has:"it wasn't in the manga !" but i'll say it anyway... yes they can control their SSJ form, but their anger is very uprising their heart isn't pure anymore, they fight to stay themself. why ? reason: when goku tranformed for the first time. MASTER ROSHI sensed the energy and said that if goku wasn't able to control that energy, he wouldn't be himself anymore ! that's exactly what he has done. he was so angered that while fighting freeza he let him go into his 100% power form. mistake he made has freeza was his equal by then. but goku's anger made him SSJ form last forever ! second example... when gohan got to SSJ2, he did the very same mistake has GOKU did with freeza, and he lost his father cause of that ! and piccolo said it himself... HIS ANGER OVERRIDE HIS JUDGEMENT ! even thou you'll say that it has nothing to do with DBZ... krillin even said it to goku while fighting SUPER 13, QUOTE:"you cannot do a genki dama with an UNCLEAR heart" UNQUOTE he said this while he was seeing goku get to SSJ when doing the genki dama ! the genki dama was very unstable when he got there, but goku somehow absorbed the energy and used it in a single punch ! now, i doubt he could have made a GENKI DAMA has an SSJ3. __________________ [img:sig_uid]http://membres.lycos.fr/imagesforum/Banner.gif[/img:sig_uid] "How did you escape my grasp ? no matter, i'll crush you now !" -DB : Lost Soul My Web Site http://membres.lycos.fr/xmvssf/