Ssj karma, and anyone who thinks tiers don't exist - Come here! - Page 3

VIRUS · 05-14-2003, 09:19 AM

Tiers...hehehe!

Sadly karma they do exist. See what happend was gamers got tired of losing to cheap players, turtles, and B.Mashers or most importantly players who have skill with characters who are considered weak. These crybabies took a "S" load of their time to come with a system of excuses based on the differences between characters.

I've played a whole bunch of these ppl especially on CvsSnk2 on the XboX live....and guess what I get?. Instead of a "gg" or "hey man nice, Ill get you the next game" I get "man my ratio four, tier 1 akuma should have won! you got so lucky!" or "my sagat is teir one your going to get smashed!".

Well it's not so sweet when they are defeated and are left with a size 12, tier one boot up their arse. Look tark you wanna live in fantasy then fine there are tiers but in reality if you were in front of me at an arcade machine there is nothing but you and me. No piece of paper or trek geek is gonna tell me my chracters stand less of a chance because they are in a low tier.

I grew up in a time where you went to the arcade and could see the best of the best beat on any challenge with bottom of the barrel characters. Tiers do not reflect skill or passion therefore I do agree with karma in my eyes they do not exist like I said it's a sore loser's guide to excuses.

Tiers can never measure the heart and true skill of a fighter they cannot measure when a great player will make a costly mistake. Tiers are lifeless and therefore as far as I am concerned have no importance.

Edited By VIRUS on May 14 2003 at 12:22

05-14-2003, 10:01 AM

SSJKarma & Virus: I'm sorry but I'm NOT referring to COTA, MVC, CvsSnk2, or even the original XvsSF game. I'm referring to THIS online game that we are posting on its supporting forums. Tiers have always existed in this game... yes, with enough skill/heart you can overcome most of them, but it doesn't stop their existence

Ex 1: When Chun li was first added, for about 2 months she was a LOT slower then any of the other characters and had little/no priority. Ryu users and Wolverine users stomped Chun li like crazy and almost no one used her. People could get away with being cheap on her because she just moved too slowly. This is a fact that is undeniable.

Ex 2: When Sentinel was first released, his supers built up like crazy. Rocket punches, and sentinel beams had no rival. They just cancelled out anything you shot at them. Sentinel force could 1 hit kill your opponents even when they blocked it because it wasn't a slow/useless 1 hit attack it is now. When Sentinel Force was tweaked down and Cyclops released, he lost a very valuable move over the other characters and now had another, worse "beamer" competition. This is a fact that is undeniable.

Ex 3: When Cyclops was first released, he could pull off optic sweeps like nothing and hit you ANYWHERE on the screen in front of him (that still happens as well with hp optic blast). His optic blasts had a LOT more priority and would cancel almost anything. When he was changed, his optic sweep was greatly slowed, and his moves have less priority. This makes him a weaker character. This is a fact that is undeniable.

Yes, all of these characters could be beaten (or be made to win in Chun li's case), but it was much easier to be cheap/better players just by chosing them (or in Chun's case, to beat them). You can say "skill and heart" have everything to do with fighting, and you're about 95% true, but if Chun li still moved like a sloth, nobody would be winning against good Ryu users with her.

This game still contains these tiers and it is doubtful they will ever go away (regaurless of what's "possible" with a lot of practice).

VIRUS · 05-14-2003, 11:02 AM

I swear I dont look foward to anyone's responce more than your's 2000 whether here or wherever.

You see my point though...see we seem to be in two different classes of gamers you are very statistical player so in your eye's stats will make a difference. I go with my feelings more so as many time as you tell me or show me that my chances are slim...I will not listen.

So you see this debate will go on forever because we just think different. I understand where your coming from and I think you understand me as well.

Edited By VIRUS on May 14 2003 at 21:47

shadab · 06-01-2003, 08:04 AM

:alien: :angryfire: :laugh: :buttrock:

:baaa:

06-01-2003, 11:47 AM

Argh...... I dont know why but every time karma posts, I seem to hate him even more and begin to think that he has never played any "vs" series game. Why? because the arguments he makes to back up his statements dont make sense when u put them up against the real games.IE: "you dont need combos to win a game"...dubya tee eff??? Go download a vid(xmvssf,mvc,mvc2,cvs2, etc...) of 2 ppl playing against each other and tell me what u see happening. U see ppl doing anywhere from 5-100 hit COMBOS(100+ in mvc2). Why? Because combos are the only effective way to deal damage. Now on to this tiers dont exist stuff that karma is talking about. Ugh.......... once again, have you ever played any of the "vs" series game inluding this one(the real one)????? Because your statements prove that you havent. This REAL game out of all the "vs" series games I think is close to being the most balanced game with MVC2 being the most unbalanced game. In xmvssf the REAL game there are tiers. Magneto,cyclops,wolvy,jugg's,ryu,ken,and storm are top tires(in my book). Why are they top tier? Because of what they can do in the game. Cyclops is top tier ebcause his super does good damage and his infinite is easy to do. Magneto is top tier because he is ungodly fast, has easy infinites(with a joystick) and can rush that #### down better then anyone else in the game. Wolvy is top tier because he also has an easy infinite and has devestating supers. Jugg's is mainly top ties because of his head crush super which can basically kill you with one super, or you can link his head crush's to kill someone. Storm is top tier because she too is very fast, supers do good damage, and her keep away game is basically unmatched in the game. Ryu and ken are top tier because they have to cool ass combo's that link into supers and once semi-easy infinites. These ppl r top tier for a reason, because they are better all around and have advantages in the game that most of the other characters in the game dont. Tiers do exist. here's another example: MVC2. Now this game has the most well known top tiers in all of the "vs" series games. IE: storm,magneto,sentinel,cable,capcom,psy,cyclops,st rider,dr.doom, and i guess spiral. Now why are they top tier? Because their abilities in the game are better all then the other characters in the game. It is very slear in that game that there are tiers. I mean put magneto up against serv-bot, who would win? Magneto of course. Storm vs roll, storm wins. Cable vs zangief, cable wins. Are you seeing a pattern to who keeps winning? Top tier, thats right. A certian group of ppl keep winning those match up's, top tier. They are top tier because they are frequently used and better over-all in the game. If you want to get educated in the way's of the "vs" series games karma, go to www.shoryuken.com, and get some knowledge about the game before making statements that dont make sense and prove that you are a moron. Now before replying to this, go watch some vids of these games and get some knowledge about them so you dont sound retarded. Seriously, go visit that site and learn all about tiers and how they DO exist. I got your back TarkanX.
ps: if there are spelling mistakes oh well, i type fast.

shadab · 06-01-2003, 12:12 PM

[quote

ost_uid0="shadab"]

<!--emo&:alien: :angryfire: :laugh: :buttrock:

06-01-2003, 12:37 PM

shadab: Congratulations dumass... you're my first banned #### of the month.

Darkvirus: I didn't read that response until now... but I used to be a lot of the "other" oppinion (yours), until lag went way down and it became almost impossible to win without hosting since your "respawn" (or so to speak) time went way the hell down, giving a huge advantage to hosters on fast connections. When that is dealt with, tiers won't matter much... but until it is dealt with, tiers will reign fairly supreme in fights of near equal abilities.

xmvsf: Please, PLEASE put some structure in your posts. I end up skipping over them because I can't find my place as it all runs together without paragraphs or at least some "returns" to seperate different lines/sections of thought.

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06-01-2003, 08:04 AM	#24
shadab Junior Member New Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	:alien: :angryfire: :laugh: :buttrock: :baaa: __________________ http://smilies.crowd9.com/otn/funny/dark1.gif buzz off

06-01-2003, 12:12 PM	#26
shadab Junior Member New Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	[quoteost_uid0="shadab"] <!--emo&:alien: :angryfire: :laugh: :buttrock: __________________ http://smilies.crowd9.com/otn/funny/dark1.gif buzz off

05-14-2003, 09:19 AM	#21
VIRUS Super Moderator Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 392 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	Tiers...hehehe! Sadly karma they do exist. See what happend was gamers got tired of losing to cheap players, turtles, and B.Mashers or most importantly players who have skill with characters who are considered weak. These crybabies took a "S" load of their time to come with a system of excuses based on the differences between characters. I've played a whole bunch of these ppl especially on CvsSnk2 on the XboX live....and guess what I get?. Instead of a "gg" or "hey man nice, Ill get you the next game" I get "man my ratio four, tier 1 akuma should have won! you got so lucky!" or "my sagat is teir one your going to get smashed!". Well it's not so sweet when they are defeated and are left with a size 12, tier one boot up their arse. Look tark you wanna live in fantasy then fine there are tiers but in reality if you were in front of me at an arcade machine there is nothing but you and me. No piece of paper or trek geek is gonna tell me my chracters stand less of a chance because they are in a low tier. I grew up in a time where you went to the arcade and could see the best of the best beat on any challenge with bottom of the barrel characters. Tiers do not reflect skill or passion therefore I do agree with karma in my eyes they do not exist like I said it's a sore loser's guide to excuses. Tiers can never measure the heart and true skill of a fighter they cannot measure when a great player will make a costly mistake. Tiers are lifeless and therefore as far as I am concerned have no importance. Edited By VIRUS on May 14 2003 at 12:22

05-14-2003, 10:01 AM	#22
Guest Posts: n/a Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): Thanks (Received): Likes (Given): Likes (Received): Dislikes (Given): Dislikes (Received): Points: 0 Mentioned: Post(s) Tagged: Thread(s) Quoted: Post(s)	SSJKarma & Virus: I'm sorry but I'm NOT referring to COTA, MVC, CvsSnk2, or even the original XvsSF game. I'm referring to THIS online game that we are posting on its supporting forums. Tiers have always existed in this game... yes, with enough skill/heart you can overcome most of them, but it doesn't stop their existence Ex 1: When Chun li was first added, for about 2 months she was a LOT slower then any of the other characters and had little/no priority. Ryu users and Wolverine users stomped Chun li like crazy and almost no one used her. People could get away with being cheap on her because she just moved too slowly. This is a fact that is undeniable. Ex 2: When Sentinel was first released, his supers built up like crazy. Rocket punches, and sentinel beams had no rival. They just cancelled out anything you shot at them. Sentinel force could 1 hit kill your opponents even when they blocked it because it wasn't a slow/useless 1 hit attack it is now. When Sentinel Force was tweaked down and Cyclops released, he lost a very valuable move over the other characters and now had another, worse "beamer" competition. This is a fact that is undeniable. Ex 3: When Cyclops was first released, he could pull off optic sweeps like nothing and hit you ANYWHERE on the screen in front of him (that still happens as well with hp optic blast). His optic blasts had a LOT more priority and would cancel almost anything. When he was changed, his optic sweep was greatly slowed, and his moves have less priority. This makes him a weaker character. This is a fact that is undeniable. Yes, all of these characters could be beaten (or be made to win in Chun li's case), but it was much easier to be cheap/better players just by chosing them (or in Chun's case, to beat them). You can say "skill and heart" have everything to do with fighting, and you're about 95% true, but if Chun li still moved like a sloth, nobody would be winning against good Ryu users with her. This game still contains these tiers and it is doubtful they will ever go away (regaurless of what's "possible" with a lot of practice).

05-14-2003, 11:02 AM	#23
VIRUS Super Moderator Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 392 Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): 0 Thanks (Received): 0 Likes (Given): 0 Likes (Received): 0 Dislikes (Given): 0 Dislikes (Received): 0 Points: 0 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)	I swear I dont look foward to anyone's responce more than your's 2000 whether here or wherever. You see my point though...see we seem to be in two different classes of gamers you are very statistical player so in your eye's stats will make a difference. I go with my feelings more so as many time as you tell me or show me that my chances are slim...I will not listen. So you see this debate will go on forever because we just think different. I understand where your coming from and I think you understand me as well. Edited By VIRUS on May 14 2003 at 21:47

06-01-2003, 11:47 AM	#25
Guest Posts: n/a Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): Thanks (Received): Likes (Given): Likes (Received): Dislikes (Given): Dislikes (Received): Points: 0 Mentioned: Post(s) Tagged: Thread(s) Quoted: Post(s)	Argh...... I dont know why but every time karma posts, I seem to hate him even more and begin to think that he has never played any "vs" series game. Why? because the arguments he makes to back up his statements dont make sense when u put them up against the real games.IE: "you dont need combos to win a game"...dubya tee eff??? Go download a vid(xmvssf,mvc,mvc2,cvs2, etc...) of 2 ppl playing against each other and tell me what u see happening. U see ppl doing anywhere from 5-100 hit COMBOS(100+ in mvc2). Why? Because combos are the only effective way to deal damage. Now on to this tiers dont exist stuff that karma is talking about. Ugh.......... once again, have you ever played any of the "vs" series game inluding this one(the real one)????? Because your statements prove that you havent. This REAL game out of all the "vs" series games I think is close to being the most balanced game with MVC2 being the most unbalanced game. In xmvssf the REAL game there are tiers. Magneto,cyclops,wolvy,jugg's,ryu,ken,and storm are top tires(in my book). Why are they top tier? Because of what they can do in the game. Cyclops is top tier ebcause his super does good damage and his infinite is easy to do. Magneto is top tier because he is ungodly fast, has easy infinites(with a joystick) and can rush that #### down better then anyone else in the game. Wolvy is top tier because he also has an easy infinite and has devestating supers. Jugg's is mainly top ties because of his head crush super which can basically kill you with one super, or you can link his head crush's to kill someone. Storm is top tier because she too is very fast, supers do good damage, and her keep away game is basically unmatched in the game. Ryu and ken are top tier because they have to cool ass combo's that link into supers and once semi-easy infinites. These ppl r top tier for a reason, because they are better all around and have advantages in the game that most of the other characters in the game dont. Tiers do exist. here's another example: MVC2. Now this game has the most well known top tiers in all of the "vs" series games. IE: storm,magneto,sentinel,cable,capcom,psy,cyclops,st rider,dr.doom, and i guess spiral. Now why are they top tier? Because their abilities in the game are better all then the other characters in the game. It is very slear in that game that there are tiers. I mean put magneto up against serv-bot, who would win? Magneto of course. Storm vs roll, storm wins. Cable vs zangief, cable wins. Are you seeing a pattern to who keeps winning? Top tier, thats right. A certian group of ppl keep winning those match up's, top tier. They are top tier because they are frequently used and better over-all in the game. If you want to get educated in the way's of the "vs" series games karma, go to www.shoryuken.com, and get some knowledge about the game before making statements that dont make sense and prove that you are a moron. Now before replying to this, go watch some vids of these games and get some knowledge about them so you dont sound retarded. Seriously, go visit that site and learn all about tiers and how they DO exist. I got your back TarkanX. ps: if there are spelling mistakes oh well, i type fast.

06-01-2003, 12:37 PM	#27
Guest Posts: n/a Post Thanks / Like Thanks (Given): Thanks (Received): Likes (Given): Likes (Received): Dislikes (Given): Dislikes (Received): Points: 0 Mentioned: Post(s) Tagged: Thread(s) Quoted: Post(s)	shadab: Congratulations dumass... you're my first banned #### of the month. Darkvirus: I didn't read that response until now... but I used to be a lot of the "other" oppinion (yours), until lag went way down and it became almost impossible to win without hosting since your "respawn" (or so to speak) time went way the hell down, giving a huge advantage to hosters on fast connections. When that is dealt with, tiers won't matter much... but until it is dealt with, tiers will reign fairly supreme in fights of near equal abilities. xmvsf: Please, PLEASE put some structure in your posts. I end up skipping over them because I can't find my place as it all runs together without paragraphs or at least some "returns" to seperate different lines/sections of thought.