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Old 01-23-2003, 01:17 PM   #54
Nantuko Joe
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1. The US has had a policy of striking first since the Revolutionary War. I know this may sound forgien to you, but here me out:
- Revolutionary War: 1st attacks began before the Declaration of Independence was ever written... colonists attacked British who were marching off to round up milita supplies, and well, the collonists attacked. The US clearly made the 1st strike there.
Finnigan helped speak for me, so I'll return the favor and do what I can:

...because the colonists had to endure years upon years of British tyranny and unlawfulness in the country they formed to ESCAPE the British tyranny in the first place. There's only so much you can take before you snap.


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- Civil War: Lincoln intended for Fort Sumter (not sure how it's spelled) to get attacked. He did this by sending supplies to it... after the fort was attacked, he assembled the US army and struck first in the Battle of Bull Run.
If I were you...I wouldn't try to start a debate about the Civil War with Finnigan. You don't know what yer getting into...

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- WWII: Pearl Harbor... which belonged to the US because what reason? A McKinley Tarriff increases the tax of imports to the US back in the mid/late 1800's, so some rich sugar cane farmers get together and overthrough the Hawaiin natives for cheaper sell of sugar (same reason for intervention in Cuba in Spanish-American War btw). Anyways, here the US was struck first... and all because they had thier Pacific Fleet stationed somewhere where the US shouldn't have owned in the first place.
Umm...no. The japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because the US didn't support them in their invasion of Manchuria and China. They also attacked because since the US didn't support their invasion, they either suspended all trade with Japan or increased tariffs (can't remember which one.) Hardly a reason to bomb a base and kill hundreds of americans.

And America purchased Hawaii...THAT'S why we were there in the first place. Since we purchased it, it is ours. Since it's ours, we had every right to position our ships and whatnot there.

And about WWII Germany...Germany DID attack the United States directly...it's just that not may people know about it. If you want, I can tell you how he did it, too.


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- Viet-nam and Korean Wars: US troops stationed in these countries got under fire... but still, the US was not invaded in any way. Not really wars the US wanted to get involved in though, much unlike all of the previous wars. I guess this and WWII are the closest to the US mainland actually came to being "defended" as the reason the US was fighting the war.
The U.S. entered the Vietnam war because they were in support of South Vietnam. South Vietnam was a democracy (what the US stands for) and the North was a Communist regimen, and was attacking to try to take over the south. If YOU were Eisenhower/JFK/LBJ, I SINCERELY DOUBT that you'd sit on your heals and watch a democratic government be overrun by Communists.

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- Persian Gulf War: Kuait = probably misspelled . But it was/is also a large supplier of oil, and once Saddam took it over, he had 25% of the world oil if I'm not mistaken? So... since the US had absolutely no threat towards itself, other then perhaps higher gas prices... it attacked first.
Actually, the middle-east (Saudi Arabia more specifically) supplies over 60% of the world's oil. Now, the US was smart and began to think ahead:

Would YOU want 60% of the world's oil being controlled by a phsyco maniac named Saddam Hussein?


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2. The Treaty of Versailles (is almost certainly misspelled), as you said... left Germany in ruins. It's most productive centers were bereft of it, it's colonial empire was gone, and it was demanded to pay homage to the nations which won... Which lead directly the rise of the Nazi regime as the political power in the nation. The irony here is not is Germany didn't cause this to happen by simply disobeying they Treaty, the Allies caused it by making the treaty so utterly impossible for Germany to adhear, that it caved into a depression that was unsurpassed in the world (to give some of the others reading this an idea, 1 dollar = 6 million german marks, at one point)... and there was no one left to fight the Nazi facism that dominated the nation. This should sound a bit like the Bolshevik revolution... since both were facist regimes that took over an economically poor nation and turned it into an industrial power house. But anyways... because of the treaty of Versailles, WWII's stage was set.
So why did they start a mass holocaust of homos, gypsies, Jews, and other minorities, killing over 10 million, 100% innocent men, women and children?

Also, we attacked against Germany because Hitler, the fcuking madman that he was, wanted to conquor the world. And the people of Germany of that point weren't that smart, I may add. Think about it: The guy that all of Germany rallied behind, the guy who said that 'the ideal human is a large, strong man with blue eyes and blonde hair, and that everyone else is inferior" had...brown hair and brown eyes. And the ppl rallied behind him.


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I agree that nations should follow treaties that are set, but the nations that force these treaties upon other nations should make certain that what they're asking of them is realistic. The UN inspecting for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is unrealistic, and was bound to fail, and I only have those people who wrote that part in the treaty to blame for what's happening now.
How is the UN inspecting unrealistic? They've found biological and chemical weapons in there in years past, and recently found chemical warheads. If you ask me, chemical and biological warheads are a serious threat. Saddam is a madman, and we have every right to make sure that he isn't stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. He's not resonsible enough to have them. The USA and Russia are. I mean, c'mon. Have the US or Russia killed over 1.5 million of our own people testing nukes and such? Thought not.
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