[TarkanX]

Vegeta's power level rose drastically because he healed from the damage he took from Rikum. Also, if you watch the anime, after Vegeta and Furiza grasped hands, Furiza was fine, but Vegeta was sweating and breathing heavily, showing that he must have exerted a lot of power and a lot of force against Furiza. Therefore, i'm guessing that Vegeta (after getting healed) was around 80,000 to 100,000 normally, and therefore had a max power of apparently 530,000.

Okay okay, Vegetas power rose more than 2x in his fight against Rikum, but he has to be lower than 90,000. Because he was saying so much that Goku at 90,000 was stronger than him. And Vegeta was not in range of form 1 freiza's level. For 1 freiza at max was at 530,000. He wasn't usin his max, and freiza has to be at over 50% of his power in his first 3 forms.

After Goku got healed from his fight with Ginyu, I guessed his power at around 300,000 normally, and using Kaio-ken x10 and x20, have Goku at around 3 million and 6 million, respectively.

If Goku was at 300,000 for his base which he wasn't, then he used kaio-ken*10, he should've gotten weaker, so he couldn't have been at 6 million for kk*20.

Your getting this PL from the daizenshuu which is wrong(yes toriyama stated it in an interview which you know already). If Goku was at 300,000, even with kaio-ken he wouldn't survive, which brings me to another point.

In Trunks' future, he was almost killed by the androids. He couldn't even score two successful hits.

He didn't get any hits

After giving Goku the antidote for the virus, he left to train some more in his future. When he returned, he was still getting beat. I'm going to guess that when Trunks returned to the present to fight the androids, he was about even with Goku (Goku didn't really grow in power during the training period for the Android Saga because he and Piccolo were focused on training Gohan). Even so, Trunks would still be weaker than the androids (according to my calculated levels I listed in my last post).

I wouldn't say Trunks is even with Goku, just a bit weaker, and SSJ Goku wasn't using his max against the android 19. The virus kicked in when he landed on the planet.

Yes your right Goku didn't raise his PL that high, he probably didn't even get a 2x increase.

However, we must assume that because Kold is also a Changeling, that he could also have multiple forms. Therefore, we have no idea what form Kold was at when Furiza beat him, and we have no idea what form Kold was in when he arrived on earth.

All I know is that Tenshinhan states that he felt Furiza's Ki, and also a Ki much stronger than Furiza's.

ARGH!!! WHere do people get changeling from, Freiza and King Kold aren't changelings! their race is unknown.

A lot of people say king kold was at form 2, but if he had forms, why didn't he shows us more, and not coward.

And Tenshinhan doesn't state that, he just says he felt a very strong ki(freiza's) and another by him, but not as strong(king kold).

SSJ Trunks never fought with non-SSJ Gohan with one arm! Watch the special, it was Gohan's death that ALLOWED Trunks to go SSJ in the first place. And after the Furiza saga, we don't even try to calculate non-SSJ power levels because the fighters pretty much always go SSJ for their fights (except for Vegeta Vs. Pui Pui).

SSJ Trunks did fight with non-SSJ Gohan with one arm, it was a flash back, I have the color manga to prove it, but it's in japanese, and i need a scanner....

Trunks turned SSJ long before Gohan was killed, and I don't need to watch some anime special if I have the manga, it shows how wrong that Gohan had the upper hand against the 2 androids but faleterd when both attacked. Android 18never fought Gohan, it was only android 17 who fought Gohan which had the upper hand against Gohan, but they were about even.

Here are my levels for Furiza during the time on Namek:

Furiza Form 1: 530,000
Furiza Form 2: 1,000,000
Furiza Form 3: 2,500,000
Furiza Form 4 (33.3% power): 4 million
Furiza Form 4 (50% power): 6 million
Furiza Form 4 (70% power): 8.4 million
Furiza Form 4 (max power): 12 million.

You got all this from planet namek.com, 530,000 is his max in form 1, and put some percentages from what he's at so I know that you don't think Freiza was at max.

In form 2 at max, Freiza is at 1,060,000, he said he got 2x stronger, put some percentages there too...

In form 3 at max, Freiza should again double his power from form 2, and put his percentages there.

Okay this is where it goes insane... Freiza wasn't using 33.3% of his power, I saw a post from SkullMac saying he just put up a % there that lower than 50%, and higher than 25%.

By the way if Freiza was at 4,000,000, and Goku by your levels using kk*10 was at 3,000,000, then shouldn't of Goku gotten beaten into the ground? They were almost even before freiza went to 50% of his power, Freiza had the edge though.

Form 4 Freiza at 50%, that percentage is correct, but that level is from the daizenshuu which is wrong for many reasons.

70% is right, but the level is wrong because of the daizenshuu.

100% is right, but the level is wrong.

When Furiza first went form 4, in the english version he says he's using "only 1%" of his power, however, that's bull####. I THINK it is listed in the Daizenshuu (or elsewhere) that he was using like 33% of his power.

Like I said above, the daizenshuu doesn't give a % for freiza before he goes 50%, skull mac just put it there.

(If you can show me where it says taht Furiza was at 20% power when he transformed, and I'll believe you.)

Freiza doesn't exactly say he's using 20% of his power, but I used proportions, and geometric ratios to get that %.

Freiza when he transformed to his 4th form was lower than 50%, and you'll agree with me. So we can deduce that from 1-50%. And there is no way freiza could be at 1%, not even 15%. so we can deduce that from 16-49%. now we can deduce the 49% to 40% since it sounds just so wrong. I'll up the 16% to 20% since the calculations would be a bit off. so we have 20-40%. Now freiza couldn't have been at 40% since he would get a small increase going to 50%, I'll dduce this to 35%.

Freiza form 4 just when he transformed was even with Vegeta, even though they didn't fight, and Vegeta sensed Freiza's power. When Freiza saw vegeta's blast, he knew he was going to have a hard time at this %, so he powered up a bit upping his %. Now lets assume Freiza when he transformed was at 20%, which is pretty much accurate since he's never at an odd number % ending in 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. Well I guess he was at 20% when he started.

Freiza charged up to 30%. so he had a 50% advantage over vegeta:

example:
--------
Vegeta: 10
Freiza form 4(20%): 10
Freiza form 4(30%): 15

a 50% advantage is enough to beat down the opponent, and kill him.

50% power would be around 6 million, and therefore twice that, for 100% power, would be 12 million. There's no way that Furiza and Goku's power levels were around 20 million. Here's what I got Goku at:

Yes Freiza at 50% is 2x weaker than he is at 100%. And Yes there is a way they could've been at 20 million, and I'll show you.

Okay let's assume Freiza form 4 at 20% was at 3 million for the sake of it. Vegeta was at the same level so:

Freiza form 4 20%: 3 million
Vegeta: 3 million

Freiza upped his power to 30% so now he's at:

Freiza form 4 30%: 4.5 million

Goku comes, and he's almost as strong as Freiza using kk*10.

Goku(base level): 420,000
Goku(kk*10): 4.2 million
Freiza form 4 30%: 4.5 million

Freiza gets bored of the fight and goes up to 50% so:

Freiza form 4 50%: 7.5 million

Then Goku gets tired:

Goku(tired): 350,000

Then Goku goes kk*20

Goku(kk*20): 7 million

They are about even, but Freiza still has the edge in this fight, Freiza gets bored again and upped his power to 70%.

Freiza form 4 70%: 10.5 million

Goku stops using kk*20 and gets really tired

Goku(tired some more): 250,000

He has no other choice but to use the genki-dama.

Then Genki-dama hits freiza, freiza's still alive, freiza kshoots piccolo, kills krillin, Goku gets mad, turns SSJ.

SSJ Goku: 15 million

Goku beats on freiza, freiza throws ball at namek, freiza says 5 mins. till planet explodes, goku tells freiza to go all out, freiza says he will, Goku says it'll put to much stress on freiza, freiza doesn't care.

Freiza form 4 100%: 15 million

They are even until Freiza gets tired from using 100%.

Okay say they weren't at 20 million, but I just used a random PL that was close to what you thought so you wouldn't aruge with it. I'd put Freiza at max at 21 million, and him using 20% at 4,240,000.

Goku Max Power (vs. Ginyu): 180,000
Goku Base Power (vs. Furiza): 300,000
Goku kaioken x10: 3 million
Goku kaioken x20: 6 million
SSJ Goku: 15 million

Goku's max was at 90,000, I told you this like 5 times, he was at 90,000, then Ginyu kept beating Goku, then Goku yells out KAIO-KEN!!! And goes up to 180,000.

That Goku's base PL was from the daizenshuu, and that level is too low to be Goku's base.

Again like his base level, his kk*10 level is too low to fight freiza. kk*20 shouldn't be at 6 million, it shouldve decrease from the daizenshuu's levels, but the daizenshuu is wrong.

The SSJ Goku PL is your opinion.

Although Furiza seems to be a lot less in power than Goku, the same thing happens as in Piccolo vs. Furiza: Furiza (versus Goku) was faster and more agile, and therefore it appeared that he and Goku were the same (or close) to being the same level

No that's not true. Piccolo against form 2 freiza at 90%(or close to that %), Piccolo said he was a bit stronger, but they were about even.

Same Goes for Goku vs Freiza, Goku uses kk, they match blow for blow(sometimes), but Freiza has the edge.

Do you think Oro would expect to drop a Z Fighter from the sky and expect him to NOT fly away and hit the ground?

hmm... I'm getting confused right here but what I meant is... Oro would catch the DB"Z" character, and grapple the DB"Z" character so hard that he couldn't escape, then drop him down like a ground.

I said the same thing, using Goku's Shunkan Idou. However, I'm going to say what you said to me: this is a fight. Sooner or later, the opponent's going to have to stop and fight.

Okay that is true, but it won't work on twelve, because he can disappear, and has no ki, so he can't be sensed.

We are never introduced to the mothers of any of the full-blooded Saiya-jins.

yep

Bardock, on Planet Meet, killed off Furiza's elites, but Dudoria (the fat pink guy) hit Bardock with a blast and [/b]THOUGHT[/B] he was dead, but Bardock was not. Bardock then got to his pod and flew back to planet vegeta.

It's not known if Bardock fought Dodoria, but if he did, Bardock would get his ass kicked.