[Nantuko Joe]

Quote
Goku's Shukan Idou (ie. Instantaneous Movement, Instant Transmission) does not move at the speed of light. The Shukan Idou is "instant", as in the precise moment he disappears, he immediately appears exactly where he wanted to go. Light takes about 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun. However, if there was a person on the sun, then Goku could teleport to him immediately.

Goku wouldn't survive the suns heat, and goku teleports, he doesn't disappear, he instantly transports from one place to another. But other than that, it's all true.

What I meant by "disappear" was when the ppl around him no longer see him. I did not mean to imply that he can cloak so no one can see him.

yes mystic Gohan is gohan with all his power, he cant get any higher than that. And Mystic isn't a form, it's just Gohan with all his power.

I'm not sure if it says it in the manga, but in the anime the Rou Dai Kaioshin says that Mystic would allow Gohan to surpass his limits. Therefore, he's using more than his max power

LMAO, you are still using planet nameks power levels. The Androids PL's from the present time is over 100 million, I'll tell you why.

When in the future, SSJ Trunks fought non-SSJ Gohan with only one arm. SSJ Trunks was sweating like mad, and non-SSJ Gohan was toying with SSJ Trunks. I assume SSJ Trunks is at the same PL as Goku, so lets just say SSJ Goku was at 15 million for the sake of it.

SSJ Trunks: 15 million
non-SSJ Gohan with one arm: 30 million

Gohan then goes to fight android 17, Gohan turns SSJ, and android 17 is only using 50% of is power against Gohan. Now lets say SSJ increases your power by 3x, even though it doesn't. By the way android 17 had an edge, but not by much.

SSJ Gohan with one arm: 90 million
Anroid 17: 95 million


Gohan then trains for a little while, then fights android 17 again, android 17 said he was only using half of his power against Gohan when they fought before, Gohan gets shocked and android 17 kills him.

SSJ Gohan with one arm: 100 million
Anroid 17: 190 million


Now the Androids from the present are twice as strong, yes twice as strong, so:

Android 17: 380 million
Android 18: 360 million

It was stated that android 18 was a bit weaker than 17.

This is all from the manga.

Where does it say that the Androids from the present are twice as strong as the ones from the future? Here's how I see it:

The Androids from the present are the same power as the ones from the future. Now, we can't say that Trunks is as powerful as Goku, because Gohan keeps saying during the Trunks Special that he wishes his father was there, because then they could beat the androids. Either way, we have to start off back in the eps. when Furiza and King Kold came to earth.

Furiza = around 25,000,000 (he received a power-up from the cyborg parts, and prolly trained on his way to earth)
King Kold = around 30,000,000 (Tenshinhan said he felt Furiza's ki, but also another more powerful ki)

Now, when Trunks arrived, he easily took out Furiza and King Kold. Therefore:

Trunks = around 35,000,000

Remember how Trunks tried to hit Goku with his sword, but Goku merely deflected it? That would mean that Goku had a higher pl than trunks, therefore making it

Goku = around 40,000,000

Now, let's go back to Trunks Future. If Trunks is around 35,000,000, then Gohan would be around 60-65 million. Now, if you watch the Special, you would see signs that Gohan is stronger than either of the Androids and could take the both if it was one-on-one battle. However, the Androids fight together, which is why Gohan dies. Therefore,

Gohan = around 65,000,000
Android 17 = around 60,000,000 (because he's prolly weaker than Gohan all by himself)
Android 18 = around 55,000,000(because it states that 18 is a little weaker than 17.

That sounds a little more reasonable to me, in terms of power levels growth-wise. After all, it does not seem possible that Vegeta, who was killed by Furiza (who only has a pl of less than 12 million at the time), could come back and train enough to make mincemeat out of a being even stronger than the androids if they were at over 300 million (rememeber, he pounds on Imperfect Cell for a period of time).

It also wouldn't make sense that a HUMAN (tenshinhan) could hold off a being with a power level of over 300 million, nonetheless hold off Imperfect Cell for a very long time. To me, my levels sound more reasonable.

Post the list, and no I'm not saying that, I didn't even say that! damn....

Do you really want me to? I can do it right now if you'd like

Well probably a few minutes after, but it didn't say 5 minutes.

You know what I mean...I'm just saying that as an example...I didn't mean it was stated that it was 5 min

Name some SF special/super that could take out a powerful DBZ character using a special/super of his/her own.

I already did:

Gill
Akuma
Shin Bison
Oro
Twelve
Evil Ryu(maybe)

No, no no! I mean as if their attacks are going up against each other, (ie. Goku's Kame Hame Ha versus Vegeta's Gallic Hou during the Saiya-jin saga).

Goku can't survive the lava, the thing where freiza knocks Goku in the lava never happened.

That didn't happen in the manga?

Oro can fly too

No, what I'm saying is "what good is it to drop someone who can fly out of the sky? If that's the atack -- to pick someone up and drop them so they get hurt when they hit the ground -- then the Z Fighter he uses it against could simply fly away and not fall.

Kame-sennin whished himself to not age anymore

Damn! You got me!

True, but he has to fight in the battle some time, since this IS a battle

I said "...and counterattack!" "...and counterattack!"

The Genki-dama does destroy anything with evil ki. but the genki-dama takes a long time to be charged to be thrown, which at that time, the opponent can rush Goku down. And The Genki-dama is used as a last resort technique.

That wouldnt' work. Remember, Furiza did the same thing, but Goku still survived and hit him with it (though a lot of good that did)

*remembers Gotenks's dumb ass attacks*

SSJ3 drains the energy inside you so it has to be used quickly, and fusion only lasts 30 minutes.

However, a well-aimed Super Ghost or Shine Shine could cripple the opponent in the fight's first few minutes.

3-The lava thing happened in the anime, but he did not survive (I think... and this could be possible as he could've been wished back by the dragon balls when they wished for everyone that was killed by freeza to be brought back to life...) or maybe he did... I haven't seen that episode in so long...

Roll, Goku DID survive. Remember, he was the one who told Dende to wish everyone except Goku and Furiza to earth. When Goku was knocked into the lava, he was prolly down there recovering energy (and maybe making a shield against the heat of the lava), but he did not die

for the Power Levels, dont even think of saying that goku was at 300 millions cause no one know except if you asked akira toriyama cause after the freeza saga no one ever used a scouter ! except when freeza said HE was over a million on his 2nd form, after that it is just not possible to tell Power Level !

SSJKarma, we are not saying that there are stated levels, because we know there aren't. I guessed my levels based on previously stated levels and calculated rates of pl growth.

TarkanX: gohan didn't goe's to SSJ2 until fighting cell (no one ever knew if he had before) the only thing goku knew is that gohan would over pass his limit if he were cornered and had no other choices but going thru !(remember he even doubted gohan after a while cause he THOUGHT gohan could be stronger than him)

No. In the manga, Gohan goes SSJ2 for a couple of secends in the Room of Spirit and Time.

when training with piccolo first piccolo letted him live 6 month but in the full moon he transformed into oozaru then piccolo blow the moon and cut the tail of gohan

No he didn't. He blew up the moon. Gohan's tail wasn't cut off until later on, when Vegeta did it.

I know Goku wasn't at 300 million, I was giving examples. And I proved that at least one DB character is over 100 million, and even over one billion. And The last PL given was when Trunks was read at 5.

*Joe sends Tark to read the somewhere above post proving him otherwise*


Whew! A lot of typing. My hands hurt.