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The avatar says it all folks.

-Chris

*cracks nuckles*

Okay... first off welcome Nantuko joe... I see your green texts haven't lost their valour :biggrin:

In any sense, you'll know the only reason I'm posting here and now is cause I in fact do not agree with ur concepts about rap and rock being totally different in their production.

Of course, there're both 2 different genre of music.. but that does not mean they have nothing in common. If my memory serves well, one piece in fact CAME from the other one. I won't jump into any conclusions as to which came first, but I'll give you the scoop when time and brain power permits.

You said and I quote...

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Songs usually have a period without vocalization, which is used solely for instrumentals, possibly guitar riffs or drum solos.

i.e... an adlib so to say... Now go listen almost all recent rap songs that feature an R&B duo... or just plain rap songs... hmm, lemme think of a good one.. ah better yet, an old one... Thug mentality by Krayzie bone. It has a spot where you hear nothing but the "beats" as you all call it. Whether it's at the beginning of the song, at the middle part (just before the R&B singers take over).. or at the tale end.. there's always (for the most part) an adlib to a rap song where the talents of the producer is being "showcased".

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Song lyrics and references vary drastically, and sometimes or usually require a firm intellectual understanding to grasp their true meanings.

You know that's not 100% correct. Both genres have their share of idiotic lyrics that just spawn from the shallowest portion of the minds of these individuals. Sometimes, rappers say/rap about nothing more than what they have and what they can do to you... as for rockers, Well, I don't really want to go through the trouble of looking for "senseless" lyrics to some rock songs out there.

Of course, most of them are meaningful, and as for rap as well, you'll have a lot of meaningful lyrics to some of the songs. There's a few of them... but I won't bore you by listing them.

In any case, the point I'm trying to bring is that you'll always find some of the elements from one genre in the other and vice versa. Something about rap would be in rock.. and something about rock would be in rap. That's why the joint venture by Aerosmith and Run DMC was a success.

You could basically mix up both worlds and come up with something lovely. Check out Linkin Park's In the end. I still find myself struggling to categorize that song as to whether it's a rap song or a rock song. Why?? Just like you say.. it has repeatitive beats... care to argue?? I'm listening to it right now :biggrin:

And then you have this show on MTV (can't quite get the name) that feature Snoop Dogg freestyling to the instrumentals by a rock group.

So no matter how you look at it, there'll always be similarities :biggrin:

[color=#F87500]

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DAMMIT BLAZE! I TOLD YOU TO STAY OFF MY COMPUTER! IF YOU'RE SO PRO-WINDOWS, KEEP OFF MY UBER MAC!!

oh god... don

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"][color=#000000]They

Group Who made songs together:

Snoop Dogg & Korn
Jay-Z & Linkin Park(And the song, " In the End" is just about rap throught the whole thing except for the chorus)
Trick Daddy using part of Ozzy's song
And Lil' John & Blink 182
Xzbit & Blink 182

NOW I DARE SOMEONE TO TELL ME THAT RAP AND ROCK ARN'T EVEN CLOSE TO SIMILAR! :angry:

Edited By HELLOTHERE on 1100307987

hehe.. yeah yeah.. let's rally behind VF and shout at Joe XD

cuz joe is a poopoo head.

[color=#000000]Hello again blanka, long time no debate. Hopefully DM will get off his drunken butt and get BG back up so I can get back to debating full-time.

By the way, I hope you picked this up...my post wasn't intended to be a "genre is better than genre" post, as that's how such things are interpreted. Rather, I figured that a simple compare and contrast was in order.

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Blanka09....
i.e... an adlib so to say... Now go listen almost all recent rap songs that feature an R&B duo... or just plain rap songs... hmm, lemme think of a good one.. ah better yet, an old one... Thug mentality by Krayzie bone. It has a spot where you hear nothing but the "beats" as you all call it. Whether it's at the beginning of the song, at the middle part (just before the R&B singers take over).. or at the tale end.. there's always (for the most part) an adlib to a rap song where the talents of the producer is being "showcased".

I included that in the rock section because I knew that it existed for rock....because I don't listen to rap, I was unaware of the presence of the "solo" in rap music. Generally, the only rap I ever hear is maybe once every couple weeks or so, when a coworker of mine will bring in a Gheto Boys / GangStarr CD to listen to, at which point I don't really pay much attention, to be honest. So yeah, I do suppose it should be included just for the sake of the comparsion part of my C&C post.

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Hehe, my intended subtle generalization apparently wasn't so subtle after all.

To tell you the truth, it took me a while to write that post from a non-biased standpoint, as I have a hard time separating good rap from the "cash/money/booze/drugs/girls/ghetto/i own you" lyrics, especially since I'm not a fan of the genre. Granted, I know that both genres have their PLENTIFUL respective shares of artists with lyrics that seem like they were shat out a dog's arse, but I was referring to the ones that actually MEAN something.

Once again trying to not sound biased, I've heard a LOT of rock songs that, although I can memorize the lyrics, I can't interpret them well (same with poetry, can't do that either). There are lots of songs that require some higher thought to try and decipher the meaning to, so I've found. This is NOT to say that rap music doesn't have this, it's just that I havn't been exposed to it, and therefore don't know very much about it.

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In any case, the point I'm trying to bring is that you'll always find some of the elements from one genre in the other and vice versa. Something about rap would be in rock.. and something about rock would be in rap. That's why the joint venture by Aerosmith and Run DMC was a success.

....probably the only collaboration that actually turned out well, that I've heard at least. What do we have nowadays? Fred Durst and Method Man, or Tommy Lee trying to make a rap, or something along those lines. Recent attempts to mix the two have pretty much gone down the dumps

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You could basically mix up both worlds and come up with something lovely. Check out Linkin Park's In the end. I still find myself struggling to categorize that song as to whether it's a rap song or a rock song. Why?? Just like you say.. it has repeatitive beats... care to argue?? I'm listening to it right now

With what I said above standing, Linkin Park is no exception. In-house, they've made a successful mix between rock and rap tunes. "In the End," for example, seems to switch between the two, with repetitive beats and piano keys going on during Shinoda's rap-style vocal session, then switching over to more heavy drums and guitar for Chester's singing session. Same goes for many of their other songs, including "Place for My Head," and one of my favorites "Easier to Run." Hell, during some songs ("Numb" comes to mind), they manage to pull off having a rap-style beat going with Chester actually SINGING to it instead of rapping....quite a feat. This, however, is all in-house work.

However, when they actually TRIED to go for various rap/rock collaboration remixes on their "Reanimation" album, they turned out rather....poorly. Yes, it was interesting to listen to the changeups they made, but in the end (no pun intended), it wasn't a good collaborative effort.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm a big LP fan. Just didn't like their efforts in Reanimation.

--

Something I should have clarified on, however, was that the exception is that not ALL rock songs are devoid of the repetitive beats. Tracks that come to mind (at 2:52am EST, so don't get disappointed at my lack of examples) are "I'll Be Watching You" by Sting, "Kashmir" by Led Zeppelin (as well as "When the Levee Breaks," which has quite possibly one of the most ripped-off drum tracks in music history), "Dream On" by Aerosmith, and some track from Ozzy that I heard some rapper took, can't remember which.

Note the latter point though, that they're all tracks that were taken by rappers, remixed, and used for background music--Puff Daddy using "I'll Be Watching You" and "Kashmir," making the songs "I'll Be Missing You," and "Come With Me," respectively; "Dream On" which was used by Eminem. Snoop Dogg once tried to rap to a version of Metallica's "Sad but True," and Kid Rock pretty much took the hard copy full-version background music to the same song for his "American Badass." Hence the exceptions to the rule, which apparently are oft-reaped for their usability in the rap industry.

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And then you have this show on MTV (can't quite get the name) that feature Snoop Dogg freestyling to the instrumentals by a rock group.

Never heard of it.

--------------------

[quote]Virtual Fighter....
oh god... don

Rap and Rock are totally Different :

http://www.johnlewis.com/jl_assets/p.../230172216.jpg

See?

[color=#F87500]

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Wow, that's an overgeneralization if I've ever seen one. Saying that both rock and rap are "rebellious" music forms? How so? The only rebellious type of rock music there is was the old school punk rock, which was basically antiauthority music. As for rap, well yeah, with all the songs about drugs and "flip the Police" and whatnot, I can see that, but not all of it is "rebellious" music.

no, they did. Are you telling me that the world was in open arms to elvis and his pelvic thrusts?

Rock and roll was NOT accepted, it was a rebbelion. Parents thought it was devil music, and rockers still didn