yeah...I guess what dan said...

I love starting topics that have NOTHING TO DO WITH MY TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well i guess that was two harsh-NO IT WASNT shut up freakin shoulder angel! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

DAN: i really like the way you putted it. and i say, now you are talking the right way. so the SSJ4 does exist and is OFFICIAL so there IS a more then SSJ, USSJ, SSJ2, USSJ2, SSJ3. so can we agree that SSJ4 DO IS official and doe's exist !

if not then just try and tell me why you can't make it official cause it is official and it is a SSJ level as mentionned by the creators of DBGT.

as for gundam story lines !
go onto the OFFICIALS web sites, such as GUNDAMLOUNGE.com or something like this. and find out that GUNDAM WING is an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE then gundam 0078. by definition i think that means they aren't in the same story line ! same goes for GUNDAM X and GUNDAM GENERATION.

in the nutshell...
the only gundam that follow the story all together is really. Gundam 0079, 0080, 0081. there could be Gundam F71, but i am not sure of that. Gundam V is a sepparate thing for sure since it is 3 ship that forms the gundam and fight for the defense of earth !

try and attach the story of all those together. you'll find it very impossible to do cause they are in separate timeline and universe !

the worst thing is the name they have given to the ONE YEAR WAR (0079) who actually is 3 year, not one !

anyway, i'm all over with that debate. as i am a little short as argument and i have never been a great talker in those.

You can go to pogo and see pics of ssj4.

Listen, Karma, to what I am about to say. It may sound a little confusing.

I will now admit that DBGT and the DBZ movies are all official. However, they are on a different level of official as the series created by Akira Toriyama.

There is only one storyline-timeline: the one that is followed throughout the manga written by Toriyama. Now, along that line, there are many branches from that timeline. On these branches are Mirai no Trunks' future, Seru's (Cell's) future, etc. Now, although those are official--eg. they were created and approved--they are not directly part of the main DBZ storyline-timeline.

Now, GT and the movies are on the same level of officialness that the timeline branches are on. They were officially created and officially produced, but they do not occur on the normal DBZ timeline. Therefore, like Dan said, one might say that these events happened in a different dimension, a different timeline than the events of the main timeline. Much like Mirai no Trunks' future, these events contain/mention stuff that has already happened in the normal DBZ timeline, but the events in the DBZ timeline do not mention these branches.

As an example, I will use Movie #5, which was the first appearance of Kooler. During the movie, many references were made about the Saiya-jins, Goku's defeating Furiza, and Goku going Super Saiya-jin. However, nowhere in the DBZ timeline do any of the characters mention Kooler, the Kooler Tokusentai (Kooler's little band of warriors), or any of the events that happen in the movie. Therefore, the movie did not occur along the normal timeline, but rather on a branch off from that timeline.

Therefore, one could say that because the movie was made and produced, it is official. However, it is not as official as the manga created by Toriyama.

Therefore, the Super Saiya-jin 4 you are referring to is indeed official, but never took place during the normal DBZ timeline, and rather in another dimension, a universe parallel to the DBZ timeline.

yes yes yes! you finally get it! that's what i've been trying to say!

Ok let me throw in my 2 cents and leae. DBGT was only made to promote/ market DB: Final Bout for the Playstation... ;)

anyway...
i was only trying to convince you that SSJ4 do exist and is relative to existing Super saiya-jin level. it was only to answer the question of the guy !

next:
i do agree that things in the movies do are not to be in the real story !
same example as you...
in the 5th movie, goku isn't able to transform at will. that's simply impossible.

1 - he is camping with some friends and his son ! (that couldn't have happenned, unless it was in the 3 years they had to train)
2 - at that time he was already able to go super whenever he wanted to !

the fact that cooler isn't mentionned in the manga isn't a proof that he doesn't exist ! Freeza did say that HIS RACE (meaning he was not alone in this universe) was stronger than any other race existing !

whatever wa in the mirai-no trunks future can be attach to the story, cause it can be placed at anywhere in the story line without modifiing anything ! same goes with the bardock special !

anyway, this debate is over with, since we all agreed on the big thing !


simple question:
if i foolow your reasoning about all that.
your saying that the TV show isn't as officials cause it isn't really what was written in the manga ? simple question !

I KNOW that SSJ4 does exist. But think about it. SSJ4 is a cross breed between oozaru and a normal saiya-jin. SSJ4 doesn't have the "traditional" blond hair and green eyes of a SSJ. So can you truly call SSJ4 a SSJ? ??? Yes, I know it officialy is.. But it's just weird to accept that fact though.. :(

I shall still call it Super Level 4, because of the greater amount of respect I give Akira Toriyama's work, and I happen to know that the form does not have most of the trademark Super Saiyan indicators.