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- - Gun control in america - flip you, liberatarians. (http://nferno666.sytes.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14665)

-_-

Once again you're ignoring the facts. 31,000 dead a year, 0.004% justified. Guns are not doing anytihng but bad and if we take thema way we will have a better tommarow and you have not done anything to prove your point except make up wacky examples of "But then we cant defend outselves against the aliens!" and the like.

wow kester- is really thinking outside the box...

I beleive that if you want to kill a person, then you will kill them no matter what it takes......even if it means resorting to harpoons

Edited By kester- on 1116201564

It's not like all the 31,000 dead a year are intentionall. A percentage of those are accidental and a LARGE percent of those are by children.

"A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting (4 times), a criminal assault or homicide (7 times), or an attempted or completed suicide (11 times) than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.[2]

22 times more likley. That's a huge fliping number.

Guns are killing our neighbors, they're killing ourselves and they're killing our children... unintionally.

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I've given the evidence. 0.004% of gun realted deaths are because of a justifiable pretection.

So really, how many people are being protected? Slim to none.

Guns are not protecting us, they're killing 31,000 a year.

Guns are NOT killing. People with guns are killing people. A gun does not pull it's own trigger a real life person does that. So maybe we should just kill everyone. That should solve all of our issues.

Ok, so you say that we should take away guns because it will prevent deaths. You may be right but when Great Britain and Australia banned guns and attempted to take all of them up. The criminals kept their guns and crime rate increased dramatically.

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Pfftt.. you justify the 31,000 people to "If we get rid of them... bad stuff will happen?"

Laws "rarley" stop things from happening? Give me some facts on drugs and how laws don't prevent them.

Because that's what i've been doing, you're just making up situations.

No actually I haven't been making up things. You act like the world is a perfect place to be and laws can prevent everything. But the facts are laws really don't prevent somethings. It is illegal to burn music from online which is what you said you did in a former topic and that didn't stop you from burning the music now did it? It is also illegal to drink while driving. But uh when the last time you heard of no one dying on Christmas from an intoxicated driver?

Oh and vehicle accidents are the leading reason for deaths. So should we get rid of cars also? Hmm, how about water? I mean I hear about people drowning all the time. In fact, auto accidents and falls kill 25 times more people in the U.S. each year than airplane crashes and firearms accidents. Accidental drowning alone kills far more people than airplane crashes and firearms accidents combined.

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What is this, the red scare?

These people arn't blood thirsty monsters just waiting for the monment we let our gaurd down to get on a boat, go thousands of miles, go to your house, knowck on the door and shoot you. You're a devider, you're

trying to build fear against our fellow man. This isn't the reds versus US, this isn't WWIII.

And all that bullpoop about China trying to kill us, THEY OUTLAWED GUNS IN CHINA.

HOW THE flip CAN 1/3 OF THE POPULATION TRY TO KILL US IF THEY HAVE NO GUNS?

Now, if you had read my response correctly I said what if N. Korea teamed up with China or Japan. N. Korea and Japan have the technology to destroy us and China has the population to destory us.

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what makes you pull over?
what makes you take a DUI test?
What makes you give up the weed?
What takes you to jail?

Law enforcement.

We have the papers, we know where these guns are, all we need is to go to those houses, take the guns, say good day, nuff said.

Like I said earlier. Austrilia and Great Britain tried to do it and the criminals still kept their guns.

Again here you are in your little fruitopia of a world. Not all people will do something just because someone says do it. No matter if it's the law or whatever. We're suppose to follow laws but we don't. VF you don't even follow laws. Oh and if someone really wanted to keep their gun they could hide it. I don't care how much you say police can protect us and can do a search warrent but a really determined person can and will find a way to keep their gun.

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How many homemade bombs have done any damage in the 230 history of the united states of america?

One.

Timathy Mcveigh's.

Plus, guns are ALOT harder to make than bombs. Give me some toilet paper, an orange and a stick a dinomite and I can make you a bomb.

Uh no. You're only look at the guy who killed many people. But haven't you heard of those people making homemade bombs and sending them to indvidual people. Sure, they didn't get that much publicity because they only killed a person or whatever but there are people out there who do things like that.

Oh and homemade guns are not hard to make. I found some directions ONLINE on how to make a homegun. All i needed was a pipe cap, a pipe, a rubberband, a nail, some wire and tape. It even had nice little pictures to guide me step by step.

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What stops the sky from falllng?

We can build all thse bad senerios, or we can face the facts that 31,000 people are dying each year and only 0.004% are justifyable, and we need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

The sky doesn't fall because of the atmosphere. It's proven...didn't you pay attention in Biology.

Ok, 42,116 people die because of car accidents. OH NO, time to get rid of cars too and 20,000 people die because of the common flu too. Deary me...What to do? What to do? Well according to you we should get rid of those. Hmm, I wonder how you can rid of the flu?
If you get rid of guns people will just find other way to harm people. Or they might find another weapon to use. Crossbows shoot pretty far and they don't even require gunpower. Hmm, how about a redwood slugger....

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What are you, a racist?

Whoa, that was out of the ordinary...what does that have to do with anything... :eh:

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But you have to admit, millions of pounds of drugs are siezed. I treid to research a percentage but couldn't find anything. but hey, that's more thna you've done.

Let's say 33% of all drugs are siezed.

f this was guns, that means theoretically the death rate would be lowered to 20,000.

If we delete all guns and wait untill the start coming in, the death rate might be somewhere around 5,000. It might grow, but it will never reach more than 20,000.

But you see we can't just have 33% of guns seized. What if the people left with the guns are the people who mean to do harm towards others. What will protect the others when those harmful people try to harm them...

but u need to carry a gun. who knows who can be stalkin u...o_0

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That's retarded. I've already stated before that not all deaths are on purpose and that a percentage of the deaths are accidental and a large percenatage of those are by CHILDREN.

Kill everyone? You're thinking like a gun owner.

And again, you're making wild farfetched senerios. Face the facts. 31,000 and the numbers keep growing and we need to DO SOMETHING.

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Ok, so you say that we should take away guns because it will prevent deaths. You may be right but when Great Britain and Australia banned guns and attempted to take all of them up. The criminals kept their

guns and crime rate increased dramatically.

1) Prove it.

2) No, it didn't.

April 28th, 2003, marked the 7th anniversary of the Port Arthur Massacre, Australia's most devastating gun tragedy, in which a disturbed man went on a killing spree that left 35 dead and 19 injured. The massacre

catalyzed a demand for comprehensive gun control. By 1997, Australia's States and Territories had passed the most significant gun law reforms in their history, including a ban on semi-automatic rifles and pump-action

shotguns; registration of all firearms and licensing of all shooters; and safe storage requirements for guns and ammunition.[1]

To persuade gun-owners to turn in their semi-automatic long guns, the Australian government established a buyback program, funded by the Federal Government and administered by the States and Territories.

Reimbursements were generous; the program eventually cost over $320 million Australian dollars and resulted in over 643,000 guns being turned in.[2] Per capita, the Australian buyback was massive, equivalent to

an estimated 40 million guns in the US.[3]

Has anything changed in Australia since the new laws went into effect? Between 1987 and 1996, 100 Australians were killed in mass killings of four or more people. Since the new laws went into effect, there has not

been a single massacre. Moreover, in Australia, homicides committed with firearms have been declining - slowly before the Port Arthur Massacre, more sharply since - from 28 percent of all homicides in 1989-90 to

16 percent in 2001.[4] While the 1996 gun laws did not initiate the decline in firearm homicides, they appear to have accelerated it.

Along with the declining use of firearms in homicide, Australia has seen a decline in the use of firearms in armed robberies. From 1993 to 2001, the proportion of robberies committed with a firearm dropped from 16 to

6 percent.[5]

Suicide rates using a firearm show a sharp drop from 1979-98 with rates continuing to drop after 1996 [6] and firearm-related accidental injuries in Australia are also declining.[7] Public health experts see these declines

as related to tighter controls over who may obtain a gun, stricter requirements for training and safe storage, and longer waiting periods for obtaining gun licenses.

See? You'er wrong again.

Where do you get your information? Do you make it up, or read i from NRA.com?

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Pfftt.. you justify the 31,000 people to "If we get rid of them... bad stuff will happen?"
Laws "rarley" stop things from happening? Give me some facts on drugs and how laws don't prevent them.
Because that's what i've been doing, you're just making up situations.

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No actually I haven't been making up things. You act like the world is a perfect place to be and laws can prevent everything.

No, laws can't prevent everything but as we see with our friends in Austrailia, they DID comply, and it DID lower the death rates.

It might have not lowered them all, but if it cuts deaths from 16% to 6, DO IT.

Even if we only save 1,000 lives, that's still 1,000 lives we saved.

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But the facts are laws really don't prevent somethings. It is illegal to burn music from online which is what you said you did in a former topic and that didn't stop you from burning the music now did it? It is also

illegal to drink while driving. But uh when the last time you heard of no one dying on Christmas from an intoxicated driver?

Who are you, johnny cocran? Using the Chubaka manuever?

Listen. We're not talking about drugs, we're not talking about music, we're not talking about christmas. We're talking about guns.

What do we know about guns?

1) 31,000 people die each year from gun deaths.
2) only 0.004% are justifiable.
3) It's costing the american citizensbetween $100 billion and $126 billion a year to pay for the police to do the investigations and for the hospitals to care for the wounded.

What do you have to counter act the hard proven facts?

Nothing.

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Oh and vehicle accidents are the leading reason for deaths. So should we get rid of cars also? Hmm, how about water? I mean I hear about people drowning all the time. In fact, auto accidents and falls kill 25

times more people in the U.S. each year than airplane crashes and firearms accidents. Accidental drowning alone kills far more people than airplane crashes and firearms accidents combined.

Again, the chubaka defence. we're not tlaking about planes, we're not talking about cares, we're not talking about water. We're not talking about any of the farfetched ideas you're proposed, we're talking the facts. We're

talking to ban guns.

I've given the facts.

3 main facts right here:
1) 31,000 people die each year from gun deaths.
2) only 0.004% are justifiable.
3) It's costing the american citizensbetween $100 billion and $126 billion a year to pay for the police to do the investigations and for the hospitals to care for the wounded.

You have provided no counteraction against these claims and are litterally pulling arguments out of your ass as you go along. (not to seem vulger =/)

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Now, if you had read my response correctly I said what if N. Korea teamed up with China or Japan. N. Korea and Japan have the technology to destroy us and China has the population to destory us.

-_-'

This isn't a godzilla movie. This is real life. Get your head out of the clouds and face the facts. You're waisint my time if you're gonna be making up the nexts james bond mvie.

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Like I said earlier. Austrilia and Great Britain tried to do it and the criminals still kept their guns.

I already proved you wrong on that, and I urge you, try to prove me wrong, not just make situations up.

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Which people? GIVE ME EVIDENCE, DAMNIT! DO YOUR HOMEWORK! FIND RESEARCH!

I really feel this is a one sided debate! I'm waisint my tmie trying to get all these facts if you just resort to "that one guy".

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Oh and homemade guns are not hard to make. I found some directions ONLINE on how to make a homegun. All i needed was a pipe cap, a pipe, a rubberband, a nail, some wire and tape. It even had nice little

pictures to guide me step by step.

Post the link here.

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Ok, 42,116 people die because of car accidents.

"90 percent of Americans say they usually drive"

90% of americans who are able to drive, drive.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Tra...=485098&page=1

There are currently 99,324,126 (July 2005 est.) 15-64 year olds in america.

That means an estimated 88,391,713 drive.

If we find the percentage of those who drive to those who have died in an automotible death, the number is 0.01%

0.01% of those who drive die in a driving accident.

Now, Currently, an estimated 39% of households have a gun, while 24% have a handgun.

There are approximately 65 million handguns.in the united states.

Now, 32,000/62,000,0000 = 4.61.

4.61% of hand guns will end up killing someone.
That means for every 20 hand guns you see, one of those will take a person's life away.

Now, compare that to the 0.001% we see for cars.
Cars are not a problem.

And we're not even talking about cars! Cars are a good thing! they have many, many advantages in owning a car

You tell me ONE thing about guns that can justify the 31,000 deaths a year and 62,000 wounded each year.

(since "For every firearm fatality in the United States, there are two non-fatal firearm injuries.[7]")
.

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OH NO, time to get rid of cars too and 20,000 people die because of the common flu too.

"Each year, about 130,000 people go to a hospital with the flu, and 20,000 people die because of the flu and complications."

Now, 130,000 get the flew.

But compare that to the estimated 65,000,000 handguns in the united states.

Now, if only 130,000 get infected with the flew, that means "About 10% to 20% of Americans get the flu each year."

Now, 10% and 20,000 die from it, that measn 85% of the people who get it survive.

Compare that to the 66% of people who get SHOT who survive and the 33% of people who die after being shot.

The flu has a vacine. The only vacine to not get shot is to not have a gun or be around a gun.

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Deary me...What to do? What to do? Well according to you we should get rid

of those. Hmm, I wonder how you can rid of the flu?
If you get rid of guns people will just find other way to harm people. Or they might find another weapon to use. Crossbows shoot pretty far and they don't even require gunpower. Hmm, how about a redwood slugger....

Don't give me sarcasm. The only time you can resort to sarcasm is when you're doing astounding and can risk it. You havn't.

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What if, what if, what if. Is that all you say? Really, i'm getting tired of doing the reserach to come back to "what if".

We already saw what happened in Autstralia, it was successful.

You can't give me these "what ifs" if I arleady have a working example of what would happen.

You can make all the "what if"s you want, but you can't deny the facts.

Well, then I seem to wasting your time...Why don't I just walk away?

Let me take a page out of YOUR book and....just lock this this topic...but since I can't lock this topic I'll just walk away.

-http://www.armedandsecure.org/debate.shtml

-http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin....anning)

-http://www.haciendapub.com/gunpage....anning)

-http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm (British Banning)

I would post the homemade gun website but we might have some crazy people on here. I don't really care if you read the links or not or not because I'm not really gonna be responding but there you have it. Australia and Britain banned guns and never the less crimes went up. And since "we" should do something about it why don't YOU write the government with your ideas.

One more thing I would like for you to answer. Why the hell did you ask if I was racist...that seems to be the question you ask anytime I debate you.

And I would like to state that you came off as an ass when you said you didn't care about suicidal people. Just wait until one of those suicidal people becomes or already is your friend.

ok i think they should ban cuz in my hood u see a 10 yrs older holdin a gun. im very scared of them.