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That's like me saying the proof harry potter exsists is in page 100 of harry potter and the sorcerres stone.

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]That's like me saying the proof harry potter exsists is in page 100 of harry potter and the sorcerres stone.[/quote]
yeah I know....except that Im right

I cant prove that im right, nor can you.....so we're at an impass.

I guess we will all find out when we die.

I'm not right? No, i'm with the concensus. The concensus is that christianity is wrong, as christians aren't the majority of the world. If you can't prove that, then you're wrong.

so, quit being wrong, wrongy.

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]I'm not right? No, i'm with the concensus. The concensus is that christianity is wrong, as christians aren't the majority of the world. If you can't prove that, then you're wrong.

so, quit being wrong, wrongy.[/quote]
well your side (whatever it may be) is definately not the majority.......

wrongy wrong head

But it's the concensus. Text books, hsitory books, and the entire basis of society is not based on christianity, and it's all taught the belief that we weren't made out of clay, or however the bible says we were made, but we were made a really, really long time ago.

If it wasn't the concensus ask your teacher why you don't learn creationism.

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]If it wasn't the concensus ask your teacher why you don't learn creationism.[/quote]
well it used to be the concensus

Edited By kester- on 1122005567

Yeah, untill we quit burning witches, and beleving the world was flat. Just face it, as more and more technology arrived to see how things REALLY work, the bible seemed more and more rediculous.

Also notice you're "backing out" of the debate. You're all like "well we're going to argue forever so let's not!"

I guess you really don't believe too much in your cause.

Lol.... If you Really dont believe in god... You really must be afraid to die right.... Not knowing WHERE you are going..... and is there any proof that harry poter is real.... NO!!!!... First of all... a Woman made the book for children... Came from a person that wrote it all by herself and with no documents from the Past...... Well.... once again People Made Documents before Jesus was Born..... Iasaih..... John.... David.... And they all Have been Correct.... Christ life has effected billions and billions of people from the past and the future ..... And if your saying that most people dont believe in god you better check the past and Today.... Christianity and other Religions That goes around God......... number probably goes close to half of the Population of the world...

After doing some collective study I've confirmed this, an only these things. :plain:

Sometimes religion is look upon as shadowed pratice of mysticism.
Some worship in naivity without the proper knowledge of what they believe in....I think this is what Nantuko Joe was trying to get me to understand...
To not be blinded by mysticism.......to not blindily worship anything...

"Also as a human being you can control anything except your fellow man."

Earth, is merely a tool...inwhich humanity ravishes....by no means does earth control humanity.....but it does hold our lives in the balance. :dozingoff:

The universe is no more than a largier biosphere......well in my view..

Edited By SBYRD5 on 1122010446

im in control simple.. no 1 controls no 1..

CripX

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No. Christians are more scared of dying because big bad god will smote them for their sins. Were as me, i'm saying, I'll just be a good person in life, help people, give to charity. So if there is no god, which most likley there isn't, I'd die happy knowing I did something right, and if there is, and god doesn't look at my good deads and says "ID DUSNT MADDER. UR NOT CHRISTIAN SO U GO 2 HELL!!1", I wouldn't want to go to heaven anyway.

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a Woman made the book for children... Came from a person that wrote it all by herself and with no documents from the Past...... Well....

Umm, so did the bible? Were the people who wrote bible there when God was creating the world? No. Were they there when Noah supposedly had a boat full of animals which is totally impossible? No. Then how did they do it? IF they had no evidense such events happened, weren't first hand accounists, and have nothing to base this on other than OTHER RELIGIONS, they're lying.

It's fiction. If you try to find the bible in a library, it'd be under religion, FICTION.

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once again People Made Documents before Jesus was Born..... Iasaih..... John.... David.... And they all Have been Correct.... Christ life has effected billions and billions of people from the past and the future ..... And if your saying that most people dont believe in god you better check the past and Today.... Christianity and other Religions That goes around God......... number probably goes close to half of the Population of the world...

What good has christianity done? You tell me that. Because all I see when I open a history book is wars, slavery, more wars, wars, and some more wars!

I asked that question like 5 times. I keep asking it. You tell me one thing that christianity has done that over shadows the bad and then we might have a reason to believe it. Has it cured a desease? no. Has it rescued a people from oppression? No. Has it stopped any wars? No.

It hasn't done anything but bad things.

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I'll just be a good person in life

You speak like your life is yet to begin.

And you speak as if you have a right to judge me.

Or are just a hypocrite.

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]And you speak as if you have a right to judge me.

Or are just a hypocrite.[/quote]
yu, sir stop right there, say anymore an this topic shall be close no name callings esc hypocripts. levave them B VF, their god already knows what he or she is doing

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]And you speak as if you have a right to judge me.

Or are just a hypocrite.[/quote]
You and the word hypocrite...

Well.... In Hell... You Go to Hot Tempretures... Get Brutally beaten by Demons.... And Burnerd.... And You get Worked alll the Time...

I really dont want to go there.... Since all that stuff is in Hell....

Yea and you got the other thing wrong.... Chritians that have been saved are not really scared to die.... They know when its there time.. Its there time.... And They want to be with God.....

People Who arent saved or dont know God.....are very scared to Die.... This is no lie... Its true

Edited By Nosoul4Sfo on 1122051430

What, have you been there?

Well... I havent... But if there is a hell... It would be Something Similair than that....

What makes you so sure about that?

i'd have to say god because im catholic, and i just saw Constantine :Oo:

just joking with the Constantine thing

but seriously GOD

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Well.... In Hell... You Go to Hot Tempretures... Get Brutally beaten by Demons.... And Burnerd.... And You get Worked all the Time...

In Norse methology hell is cold. Hell is really cold. In other religions, hell is just hard, and not having to do with a temperature. Are you saying that some how for some reason your religious enterpretation of hell is better or more accurate than others?

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People Who arent saved or dont know God.....are very scared to Die.... This is no lie... Its true

And you would know why, becuase you're an athiest? Or is it becuase you're making poop up, AGAIN?

I wasnt talking about YOU, I am talking about other people.... If you look around other people have opinions of Dying..... Instead of your opinion....

Dont some people have Fear of dying? yes..... of course but come on man... Everyone thinks about it one day, and they get a little scared....

like When I was like 8 years old and I had fears of dying.... And like I have now.... its not that im scared anymore... But you just think that your going to die, and you dont know whats going to happen to you..... But my Way to it is God...

Edited By Nosoul4Sfo on 1122056967

hey no soul i dont believe in god and im not scared to die... true i wouldnt want to die right nowbut just because i dont believe in god automatically makes me fear death... thats utterly preposterous

Okay I have Read Something that Will Help My Case..... The top Of the page I didnt put in there, Because they were talking about bathrooms and arguing.... SO i am going straight to the paper

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THE BEGINNING

If we do exist, there are only two possible explanations as to how our existence came to be. Either we had a beginning or we did not have a beginning. The Bible says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1 :1). The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning. The idea is that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and all that has happened is that matter has been changed from form to

form, but it has always been. The Humanist Manifesto says, "Matter is self-existing and not created," and that is a concise statement of the atheist's belief.

The way we decide whether the atheist is correct or not is to see what science has discovered about this question. The picture below on the left represents our part of the cosmos. Each of the disk shaped objects is a galaxy like our Milky Way. All of these galaxies are moving relative to each other. Their movement has a very distinct pattern which causes the distance between the galaxies to get greater with every passing day. If we had three galaxies located at positions A, B. and C in the second diagram below, and if they are located as shown, tomorrow they will be further apart. The triangle they form will be bigger. The day after tomorrow the triangle will be bigger yet. We live in an expanding universe that gets bigger and bigger and bigger with every passing day.

Now let us suppose that we made time run backwards! If we are located at a certain distance today, then yesterday we were closer together. The day before that, we were still closer. Ultimately, where must all the galaxies have been? At a point! At the beginning! At what scientists call a singularity!

A second proof is seen in the energy sources that fuel the cosmos. The picture to the right is a picture of the sun. Like all stars, the sun generates its energy by a nuclear process known as thermonuclear fusion. Every second that passes, the sun compresses 564 million tons of hydrogen into 560 million tons of helium with 4 million tons of matter released as energy. In spite of that tremendous consumption of fuel, the sun has only used up 2% of the hydrogen it had the day it came into existence. This incredible furnace is not a process confined to the sun. Every star in the sky generates its energy in the same way. Throughout the cosmos there are 25 quintillion stars, each converting hydrogen into helium, thereby reducing the total amount of hydrogen in the cosmos. Just think about it! If everywhere in the cosmos hydrogen is being consumed and if the process has been going on forever, how much hydrogen should be left?

Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas (fuel) into it. As I drive and drive, what is eventually going to happen? I am going to run out of gas I If the cosmos has been here forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is, however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe! Everywhere we look in space we can see the hydrogen 21 cm line in the spectrum_a piece of light only given off by hydrogen. This could not be unless we had a beginning!

A third scientific proof that the atheist is wrong is seen in the second law of thermodynamics. In any closed system, things tend to become disordered. If an automobile is driven for years and years without repair, for example, it will become so disordered that it would not run any more. Getting old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also get old. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is "everything that ever was or is or ever will be," as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded.

The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

THE CAUSE

If we know the creation has a beginning, we are faced with another logical question_was the creation caused or was it not caused? The Bible states, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Not only does the Bible maintain that there was a cause_a creation_but it also tells us what the cause was. It was God. The atheist tells us that "matter is self-existing and not created." If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem.

In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws dealing with the conservation of matter/energy would have to be wrong, invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of angular momentum would have to be wrong, invalidating all of physics. All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be wrong, invalidating all of electronics and demanding that your TV set not work!! Your television set may not work, but that is not the reason! In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.

The atheist's assertion that matter is eternal is wrong. The atheist's assertion that the universe is uncaused and selfexisting is also incorrect The Bible's assertion that there was a beginning which was caused is supported strongly by the available scientific evidence.

THE DESIGN

If we know that the creation had a beginning and we know that the beginning was caused, there is one last question for us to answer--what was the cause? The Bible tells us that God was the cause. We are further told that the God who did the causing did so with planning and reason and logic. Romans 1:20 tells us that we can know God is

"through the things he has made." The atheist, on the other hand, will try to convince us that we are the product of chance. Julian Huxley once said:

We are as much a product of blind forces as is the falling of a stone to earth or the ebb and flow of the tides. We have just happened, and man was made flesh by a long series of singularly beneficial accidents.
The subject of design has been one that has been explored in many different ways. For most of us, simply looking at our ####orn child is enough to rule out chance. Modern-day scientists like Paul Davies and Frederick Hoyle and others are raising elaborate objections to the use of chance in explaining natural phenomena. A principle of modern science has emerged in the 1980s called "the anthropic principle." The basic thrust of the anthropic principle is that chance is simply not a valid mechanism to explain the atom or life. If chance is not valid, we are constrained to reject Huxley's claim and to realize that we are the product of an intelligent God.

THE NEXT STEP

We have seen a practical proof of God's existence in this brief study. A flood of questions arise at this point. Which God are we talking about? Where did God come from? Why did God create us? How did God create us?

Here is the Link http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

Edited By Nosoul4Sfo on 1122058323

hmm icic but life began as a microcell that started like a primoridial soup. some believe that chains of Rna conducted the synthesis of other molecules which in millions of years of evolution led to us. i dont want to get into detail cause that would be so many things to type...
hey i used on windarossa so i will use it again... we agree to disagree

That link is bullpoop. The only thing it says it that something somewhere at sometime did something and then we had a universe. It did nothing to prove the bible, it did nothing to prove the 7 day theory, it did nothing to prove ANYTHING other than there was a beggining.

That link sucked and failed to prove anything.

Here's an even better link:

Quote:

Proof That God Doesn't Exist,
Prayer Doesn't Work
And Religion Creates Psychosis

"A believer is a bird in a cage. A freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing."

Robert Ingersoll

At the top of this website is a prayer: "God, protect me from your followers." Well, needless to say, it doesn't work, thereby providing concrete proof that God doesn't exist and that prayer doesn't work. And those who have squeaked through the supernatural protective net have expressed psychosis, which proves that religion creates it.

Some of the nutty messages received include the following. I could provide the names of the people who sent them, but these comments are so generic and typical that they apply to basically any blind believer, with the emphasis on blind.

*

"Your time will come!" This could be taken two ways: The friendly interpretation is that someone is wishing me luck in my teaching. The hateful interpretation is that I am being condemned to judgment by a monstrous god person.
*

"Eternity is a long time to be wrong!" All freethinkers have heard this idiotic retort, which is a more refined version of "You're going to hell!" This comment is completely psychotic, in that these blind believers believe there is a "loving" and "forgiving" god person who will hideously punish anyone who dares to question "his" existence. Obviously, we reject such an ugly concept, so this threat doesn't scare us. Also, what if YOU'RE wrong? You have condemned millions of people to hell in your thoughts and words, not to mention that, if you're a Christian, you believe the Jews are guilty of killing God! These are pretty heinous accusations, so you had better be sure that you're not wrong. Blind belief is not a win-win situation. Indeed, it is intellectually dishonest and harmful.
*

"When you die, you will meet your Maker and fall down on your knees before Jesus and ask His forgiveness." Ditto with the above. Why would the "omnipotent" Jesus and "His Father" be so threatened by our unbelief? Did "He/They" not provide us with intelligence? Yet, "He" wishes us to spit on "His" gift and not use it? This asinine comment also means that the hundreds of millions of Buddhists and others who don't believe in the Jewish godman are diabolical and will be severely punished. Those who subscribe to such bigotry are already living in hell.
*

"Have you read the Bible cover to cover?" Actually, I have, and the hypocrite who asks such a question obviously hasn't, because the Bible is full of dreadful stories about genocide, murder, adultery, incest, deceit, greed, arrogance, megalomania, sexual perversion, and all sorts of despicable behavior. On second thought, perhaps the people who ask such a question HAVE read the Bible, as we are sure it creates dementia.
*

"Who made you so angry?" This one is full of implications, and I could answer in a variety of ways. ONe favorite is "Who made you so dumb?" But I could focus on the "made" part and say, "Well, God made me, so he must have made me angry." I could also point out that the question itself is extremely angry, and that those who see anger everywhere are themselves seething with anger but are repressing it and are thus not mentally balanced. Human beings SHOULD be angry, because their situation is atrocious. If there were such a god person directing everything, they should be very angry at "him," because this world is a mess and every day abominable things are happening to millions of people. Of course, the standard stupid response to this is that "God gave us free will." (See A Question of Free Will.)
*

"I'll pray for you!" This comment sounds like an alien language to freethinkers. It comes out something like this: "BZZZPPFFFFTTT." When interpreted, it becomes clear that the person who is making such a comment feels quite smug and superior in that he/she has chosen the RIGHT god, compared to whatever it is you do with your consciousness, such that he/she now has a direct pipeline, whereas you do not, and he/she will put in a good word for you, you lowlife scum. Since the concept of "God" is completely arbitrary, we could respond that we will pray to the Cosmic Mickey Mouse that our well-wishers become intelligent. Naturally, we are not talking about loved ones who make this heartfelt prayer comment in times of true trauma. We are addressing the condescending offer presented by missionaries and proselytizing fanatics who have never even met us but who feel they know we are sinners who need prayer to their "Father in heaven." Theirs is a rather unctuous and smarmy mentality.

Now, just in case you think I'm being a bit harsh in pronouncing these statements and sentiments psychotic, I offer up the following email - you decide. Do you truly want to live in a world dominated by this kind of mentality?

"Alas, your vile vulgarness comes out. It's obvious you and your mind belong to Satan. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. You are a very sad excuse of a human being. You babble about things you know nothing about. The Jews aren't Christkillers. Whoever told you that. Jesus died for all of us, so we all are Christkillers. . . . Whether or not you like it, or admit it, you were created by God, you will be judged by God, and you will be punished by God. You can play all the games you want to until that day of judgement, but it's coming."

To these loving, advanced concepts, I respond, "You and your mind obviously belong to Ahriman the Devil! Ahura-Mazda the Almighty will judge and punish you! My Persian boogeyman is bigger than your Judeo-Christian one! You barbarian with a bone in your nose! Ooga-booga!" Then I follow this with much saber-rattling, teeth-baring and chest-beating.

All of these comments reflect that the believer is angry, volatile, primitive, arrogant, mentally unbalanced and does not display critical thinking. Let us now spell it out:

*

If you believe there is an invisible giant man of a particular ethnicity in the sky who is directing everything and who is so hateful he will viciously punish us for challenging his existence -
*

If you believe that this invisible giant man got a 13-year-old virgin girl pregnant, who then gave birth to him as his own son -
*

If you believe that this god person wrote a book - and one book only -
*

If you believe that "confessing the Lord" will instantly remove your sins, thus allowing you to commit more -
*

If you believe that a stone will remove your sins, thus allowing you to commit more -
*

If you believe in vicarious blood-atonement, i.e., that "the Lord died for your sins" and thus you can commit as many as you wish -
*

If you believe that merely believing in such a god person makes you righteous, no matter what atrocities you commit and what hatred and intolerance you carry and spread -
*

If you believe that some "good" god person is going to reward you for killing living, breathing human beings "in his name" -
*

If you believe that going to church, temple, synagogue or mosque, making pilgrimages, or wearing particular clothes or headdresses, makes you a righteous person, even though you don't behave like one otherwise -
*

If you believe that you are special and chosen because of what you believe -
*

If you believe that it is good to mindlessly go along with whatever anyone tells you about the nature of God and religion -
*

If you believe that believing in one God makes you better than and superior to those who don't -

You are NOT displaying critical thinking, not using your mind. You are also uneducated as to the world's cultures and history. It is not a sign of great intelligence to blindly believe what someone else has told you is true, especially when such beliefs basically condemn hundreds of millions of other people. Many of these blind believers are simply not very bright, yet they assume that their belief equalizes them with those who are smarter. "Jesus loves you just the way you are!" is the hypocritical hue and cry of those who feel inferior but who will not recognize it and admit it. Yet, according to these same cheerleaders, Jesus DOESN'T love you just the way you are - you must thoroughly change, surrendering your mind and soul to him. A bit of a psychotic extortion racket.

The bottom line is that those who dare to question and challenge cherished beliefs which are not rational and reasonable, and who live relatively righteous lives without such irrational and intolerant beliefs, should be recognized as being the epitome of what any god person would wish in "his children." They are utilizing all of the gifts that such a god person would provide, were "he" real. And if they have utilized these "God-given" gifts, they know that the interpretation of "God" is a cultural artifact, not an absolute truth that must be defended and beaten into other people. In using these gifts, they will discover that over the millennia, hundreds of millions of people have held differing opinions as to the Infinite, which is only common sense, since it is, after all, Infinite.

Humans need to lighten up! Their gods and religions are dreary, humorless, wrathful, intolerant, oppressive and generally unpleasant. There is no love, no joy, no fun! Humans are under the dominion of ideologies that are slowly but surely killing them. They need to release them and be free! No one is going to punish them for enjoying life, and there is no point to living if they can't enjoy it. No good god person wants to see people stumbling around in dread seriousness, doing cockamamie rituals and constantly beating up themselves and others. Life is a joke. There is no purpose, so everyone is free to create his or her own, making it as amusing, joyous and scrupulous as possible.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/proof.htm

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]

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Well.... In Hell... You Go to Hot Tempretures... Get Brutally beaten by Demons.... And Burnerd.... And You get Worked all the Time...

Quote:

People Who arent saved or dont know God.....are very scared to Die.... This is no lie... Its true

And you would know why, becuase you're an athiest? Or is it becuase you're making poop up, AGAIN?[/quote]
OK, VF, i know no one has evr told yu that hey have died and went straight to hell. well , let me let yu in on a little stroy that a called " yu don't want to go there" ok this man, he was an million ( and still is today). he did like black ppl not all black ppl just the super Dark and brown ones. so yu had to be almost the skin color of a white person just to get on the job.
and he had an heart attack one day, he went straight to hell, he said " that it was so hot that if yu touch the gates, that it would burn yur hand" so, he asked go for giveness and that he would nevr treat colored ppl like that again. and they put the cover over his head in less than 30 mins his soul was back in his body. and now, to thid day this man gives to charity gives money to the poor and evrything. i would tell yu who he is, but VF would go nuts!

[quote:post_uid0="MEGA_DRACOS_XRL"]i would tell yu who he is, but VF would go nuts![/quote]
no, please...tell us :laugh:

It's no body, because no one is a million years old no matter what bullpoop religion you believe.

i meant he was a millionaire

Then speak right. No body takes you siriously and I really don't want to listen to you if you bring "OMG U NEED 2 ASSEPT JESUHS INTO UR LIFE IN ARDER 2 GO 2 HEBEN!" to the table.

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]Then speak right. No body takes you siriously and I really don't want to listen to you if you bring "OMG U NEED 2 ASSEPT JESUHS INTO UR LIFE IN ARDER 2 GO 2 HEBEN!" to the table.[/quote]
I certainly would, because he is right. Your not speaking "right" yourself.

Edited By vx_unicom on 1122073797

Okay.... This is my Quote I made my Self

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We live in a world with good and bad people in it..... Some dont believe in god and some do...... We argue and argue about what do we think..... But really what it comes down to is character...... Love each other and not let things get in our way....... As the world we live in today.... We have to work with each... To help make the World a better place......As the day we die.... We will understand how much we care for each other around the world.... And thats what matters to people.... And help the Children of tommorow Lead this Earth to make it united

[quote:post_uid0="Nosoul4Sfo"]Okay.... This is my Quote I made my Self

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Well VF you cant really change peoples mind.......NOBODY changes anybody..... We have to walk the Journey alone which it were it leads us........

But you cant Change my mind... My life I live for... If for God.......And Nobody Can change that :buttrock:[/quote]
i respect that... just because i dont believe in god doesnt mean you also dont have to.... unfortunately people in my home country are pursuading the people to convert to christianity by giving them money and food.... now that is EVIL

How is that evil? I'd 100X would more likley change to christianity if they would give me food and money. That kicks ass.

Christianity is all about giving money to the poor, and if you actually see it, then i'd believe you're not bullpoopting me.

But if they're all "Give money to the poor! love thy neighbor!" and you go "Can I have some food?" and they go "Hell no, poory mc poorter! Go flip off!" well, that's not a religion you want to convert to.

And even if they don't convert, atleast people are being fed. AMIRITE?!!>?!

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]Also notice you're "backing out" of the debate. You're all like "well we're going to argue forever so let's not!"

I guess you really don't believe too much in your cause.[/quote]
The Reason I backed Out is becuase that's the way you feel.
Science and Religion can go together!!! God And Science

BTW: did you check the link????

Edited By (~Miguel~) on 1122092811

Uhh, no they can't, because "the bible is perfect" (as said kester), and any misinterpretation or addons would be blasphemey and YOU'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!

Their must be a reason why we go to Hell. And no it isnt any other things. God will judge you by the way you live, Doing right things, love and friends

[quote:post_uid0="Virtual Fighter"]Christianity is all about giving money to the poor, and if you actually see it, then i'd believe you're not bullpoopting me.[/quote]
I give money to the poor but you have to know which ones to give it too. Sometimes People use the money To Buy drugs buy Booze and other stuff.

Edited By (~Miguel~) on 1122144530

I think humans are in control. Not to say that there isn't a possibility of God/gods existing. I still believe that we are in control of our own actions and destiny. Well, if there is such a thing as destiny... this is all very confusing :confused: