aw animals have feelings? i mean take my brother for instance... uh hello, what are humans then? does a bigger brain mean a soul? i say that something souless couldn't live. cant you see the soul of your dog when you look into its loving eyes??? they do need affection and are sad when their masters are gone. if an animal can feel sad, happy, angry and all those, then it should have a soul, unless you want to debate that there is no such thing? sometimes i think (a little bit too much) that all we are is a series of complex connections, electric and chemical reactions evolved from the simplest life-form... or maybe a collection of smaller organisms called cells that work together to sustain each other... oops going off topic here lol.

[quote:post_uid0="m0u5y"]aw animals have feelings? i mean take my brother for instance... uh hello, what are humans then? does a bigger brain mean a soul? i say that something souless couldn't live. cant you see the soul of your dog when you look into its loving eyes??? they do need affection and are sad when their masters are gone. if an animal can feel sad, happy, angry and all those, then it should have a soul, unless you want to debate that there is no such thing? sometimes i think (a little bit too much) that all we are is a series of complex connections, electric and chemical reactions evolved from the simplest life-form... or maybe a collection of smaller organisms called cells that work together to sustain each other... oops going off topic here lol.[/quote]
Actually that was perfectly on-topic.

oh yay ^_^

[quote:post_uid0="(ShinKu_Ryu)"]do you know the story of Adam and Eve..?!?You dont cause u dont read the bible........those two were the first humans god created in his image...?!?then where could scientist's have got that we evolved from apes... ??? [/quote]
Of course, if that were true... then technically, no matter who we marry, date, or fall in love with, we could consider it as incest.

I'm gonna guess that you're trying to say "living", even though the letter "e" is usually far away from the letter "i" on keyboards.
First of all, everyone looks at everything with a different view. No view will ever be the same; just similar, perhaps. To say different is to be controlling and pompous. If you were, however, telling Joe to look at things with different views, then you should look and read closer. He's been looking at this entire topic and everything else with a very open mind. He tries to disprove your beliefs, because they are somewhat ridiculus in ways.

Humans are animals too, genius.

A better question: do you have proof that they do exist?

True or not, Scientists believing in god will try to find proof that god exists. When they've succeeded, you can call the press for all ofus.
You also do not need to have a soul in order to speak. In fact, you don't need a soul to live. Souls are just manifestations of memories, dreams, and people that have died. If you want to go with souls, you'd have to be reincarnated to continue to have a soul. Unless, of course, your soul was just born into this world. But that's only if you have a soul.

Wow. Source of energy that created the universe. Big proof. What if it was just a whole lot of tiny little sources of energy coming together and colliding to create this universe? You can't say that proves the existence of a God; just like you can't say that a few words in a book proves his existance (ditto for countless believers, priests, and preachers).

Is there something wrong with him being into science? Maybe I should say you're way into christianity; because everything you've been saying stems from your religion and the beliefs you hold that stem from it. And I don't know why either. Doesn't meant that it makes it ok for me to use this as a form of retaliation. (I dun care if I spelled that word wrong right now, btw. It's an icky word.)

While at the same time, you're doing that too. What you say may not be a lie to you, but to others, it can be a lie. Perspectives, motives, and morals change depending on the person; and generalizing all people in anyway can be dangerous upon your already tattered judgement. Keep that in mind.

[quote:post_uid0="ledmonkey"]<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>Let this topic Die before we end up killing somebody.....</span>[/quote]
I already tried to stop it. Just let it runs its course like all the others like it.

Anyway, it seems that it will be necessary.

Joe ur wrong, those damn scientist are wong too.......how come none of those scientist ever proven on TV how animals evolve so we can see it. It doen't make sense that the world just started to form by itself man!!. There must have been something that made that impact to happen. I read in the bible on how the earth was created and it makes more sense than those scientist who try explain to explain how the earth was made. Everything that exist has a maker who created them all. Things just don't start to create themselves. Unlike humans even though u say they evolved from animals which i disagree, there must have been something that caused them to evolve from animals to humans. If God and the Devil didn't exist then we wouldn't know what sin is and what the truth is which again conludes to the existance of God and the devil. God is Truth and the devil is sin, there is no need for prove that God exists, Statistically speaking so far people agree that God exist and there is a HEAVEN and a HELL which i agree as well. ???

[quote:post_uid0="vx_unicom"]Joe ur wrong, those damn scientist are wong too.......how come none of those scientist ever proven on TV how animals evolve so we can see it.[/quote]
Actually, you can't show that something is evolving AT A CURRENT MOMENT OF TIME. If you were truly knowledgable with science, you would know that. But then you must have lied, did you not?

As you once implied, if everything must have a purpose, then this does make sense. Little tiny bits and pieces forming themselves together in order to become what we know as life and the earth today. It has more sense than just one entity creating it all.

Of course it makes more sense to you: You're totally brainwashed, and don't take the time to notice what other people are saying. You're 100% religious, and that can be a big problem in any debate in life. You're becoming your own worst enemy for this one, that's for sure.

Yes they do. We have tiny little organsms that come together to create things. They're called molecules.

Humans <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>ARE ANIMALS</span>, you dolt. We evolved into what we are today, because we adapted to life and became smarter with time and experience. Everything is like that; but it takes a very long time to get from where we were billions of years ago to where we are today.

Sin is just another, smaller word for wrong-doing, faulty action, misbehavior, etc. Truth and Sin are both changeable with the minds, perspectives, thoughts, morals, and laws of people. Plus, there are many forms of each: Mild, strong, complete, total, incidental, accidental, unpreventable, and destructive for Sin, and half-, little-, solid-, faded-, small-, hidden-, false-, questionable-, destructive-, horrific-, sad-, and wrong- for truths. There are many more, but these are the most commonly used.

Statistics are for politicians, mathematicians, surveyors and news reporters. To trust them is to trust that only a small percentage of the population over the entire world believes this; and it's only in one area at a time. In fact, most people will refuse to be polled on such things: So you can't count this as proof or help for you. For all you know, more non-believers than believers.

if god created the universe, who created god? just like the big bang theory, it doesnt make sense, creation from nothing? IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? the thing is humans dont know anything about anything just like the rest of the animals on this planet. religion and even science are just ways to make the humans feel like they have control and knowledge because the alternative answer (they have no clue of nothing) would cause them to go insane. science and religion are both human creations so they are subject to human bias. everything you know can be disproved. human error is the source of all the problems. and no computers cant figure it out since they are human creations too. infact... you could debate forever and ever about religion vs. science or any other controversial topic because anything that is controversial will always have multiple views and answers, and this is the defenite truth of all.
lol

...and that's where my belief comes in. ^-^

[quote:post_uid0="m0u5y"]if god created the universe, who created god? just like the big bang theory, it doesnt make sense, creation from nothing? IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? the thing is humans dont know anything about anything just like the rest of the animals on this planet. religion and even science are just ways to make the humans feel like they have control and knowledge because the alternative answer (they have no clue of nothing) would cause them to go insane. science and religion are both human creations so they are subject to human bias. everything you know can be disproved. human error is the source of all the problems. and no computers cant figure it out since they are human creations too. infact... you could debate forever and ever about religion vs. science or any other controversial topic because anything that is controversial will always have multiple views and answers, and this is the defenite truth of all.
lol[/quote]
Roll u've said nothing but nonsense...........ppl are ignoring my points so what do u expect. Roll ur blinded just like Joe is. God is a being that is immortal which means he doesn't have a begining or an end, he is eternal. I'm getting tired of typing so u know what debate with someone else.....cause no matter what happens we will never agree towards each other. So hola....yall!!! Ur all blinded, i will let my associate do the debating for me, i wanna talk about something else. ???

[quote:post_uid0="vx_unicom"]Roll u've said nothing but nonsense...........ppl are ignoring my points so what do u expect.[/quote]
I am not ignoring your points. Right now, you're ignoring mine. If you continue to do so, I will totally ignore everything you have to say altogether.

No, immortal means you're not mortal; you cannot die. It doesn't mean that you don't have a beginning. Even my 5 year old CHRISTIAN cousin knows that.

That was perhaps the most factual and honest statement you could have ever made in your lifetime. However, I doubt your tired of typing. I'm more convinced that you're tired of not having people who believe what you say very easily and then stand up and talk for you. Another quote will prove it.

You spelled "holla" wrong. If you're going to use slang, spell it right at least. The english language is complicated enough as it is without people adding slang and then mispelling them to form new words.

And here, my dear little boy that knows so much about so little, is my proof of what I spoke of earlier. No matter what you say, it doesn't change the fact that your motivation is affected by the fact that you don't have very many easy believers and supporters here to help you say that everyone who does not believe in christianity is stupid and/or wrong; and that they're the devil. While you let your "associate" talk for you (since you have nothing plausible to talk about in the first place, whereas he at least tries), you can talk about something else----somewhere else.
Needless to say, you're blinded by your selfless attachment to your pathetic pride.

Alright!
Nantuko,you don't belive in religion ok...And you don't believe God made us so who started this all?And if you say evolution (monkeys)then who made the monkeys?
And Hell is not in the core!You can't see Hell or Heaven but both are true...And if you don't believe me, read the bible..And if you don't believe that ask anyone whos great great grandparents were living at that time...
Take that lil girl (i forgot her name)for instance...
She used to go to church and respected everything (back back then)and one day she saw Mary...And she was the only one who could see her..people were making fun of her and stuff..When she became older and passed out..they buried her and ..when they went to get her bones(like in 3 months)..Her flesh and her body was still there...Miracle
Btw..Im Catholic :biggrin:



Edited By VampireNinja on Mar. 21 2004 at 18:27

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"][quote:post_uid0="vx unicom"]Roll u've said nothing but nonsense...........ppl are ignoring my points so what do u expect.[/quote]
I am not ignoring your points. Right now, you're ignoring mine. If you continue to do so, I will totally ignore everything you have to say altogether.

No, immortal means you're not mortal; you cannot die. It doesn't mean that you don't have a beginning. Even my 5 year old CHRISTIAN cousin knows that.

That was perhaps the most factual and honest statement you could have ever made in your lifetime. However, I doubt your tired of typing. I'm more convinced that you're tired of not having people who believe what you say very easily and then stand up and talk for you. Another quote will prove it.

You spelled "holla" wrong. If you're going to use slang, spell it right at least. The english language is complicated enough as it is without people adding slang and then mispelling them to form new words.

And here, my dear little boy that knows so much about so little, is my proof of what I spoke of earlier. No matter what you say, it doesn't change the fact that your motivation is affected by the fact that you don't have very many easy believers and supporters here to help you say that everyone who does not believe in christianity is stupid and/or wrong; and that they're the devil. While you let your "associate" talk for you (since you have nothing plausible to talk about in the first place, whereas he at least tries), you can talk about something else----somewhere else.
Needless to say, you're blinded by your selfless attachment to your pathetic pride.[/quote]
Roll........shame on u, YOU u think ur smart dont u? As a matter of fact more ppl who posted here believe that God exists and there is HEAVEN and EARTH. Atleast Joe proved his case and scientifically tried to explain to us what he means. At the other hand ur acting like Mr.Genius while ur saying things which don't make sense and and u've proved nothing.....so i would suggest that u count the numbers of ppl who disagree against ur damn case........Oh no wait, u've said nothing but get off topic......ur an ediot, ur just 16 u know nothing. :angry: :angryfire: u don't even have any points Joe does.......so lets all shoot each other abs get drunk!!! :laugh: all i've seen is blah....blah..blah...from roll.



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 21 2004 at 18:54

What are you talking about? I gave you PROOF of human evolution, and how did you respond? You said

"Joe ur wrong, those damn scientist are wong too......."

YOU are the one ignoring OUR points.

Like you said....why don't you actually start debating? We provide proof, and you ignore it and simply say we're wrong.

So from now on, anything you say, I will do just that. I will just say that you're wrong, and you can't prove a thing.

Because while I have been presenting cold, hard fact, YOU ignore ME. So stop complaining that we're ignoring your points. I have presented case after case supporting my arguments, and all you do is say "joe your wrong, stop ignoring me."



Edited By Shauku on Mar. 21 2004 at 19:08

More people who posted here believed that there is an all powerful God. That doesn't mean the whole world believes and/or acts the same way, nor does the majority. If you had any sense of thought, you would know that.

And another thing: I do NOT think I am smart. In fact, to be honest, after I think about what I can learn and know, I think I'm terribly stupid. But I don't need a childish dimwit trying to tell me what I already think. In fact, you shouldn't be telling other people that they are stupid when you yourself are also ignorant and unknowledgable. You're the one acting like Mr. Genius, not me.

I've not even gone off topic; but it would seem like that to you, because you don't tend to fully take in what is told to you. You never even tried to consider anything that anyone else has said. I haven't seen much else except mindless babble coming from you at all, and what you just posted proves it. Something for you to learn: If you're going to try and flame/humiliate someone, at least spell your names correctly, and try to use proper grammar and sentence structure. It really does help.

But let's do it your way:
You're just a kid. You know nothing.



Edited By Roll on Mar. 20 2004 at 20:11

i hear ppl say they dont believe in GOD ! so do u pp believe in the devil if youdont believe in God??

Mou5y You dont make sense...and roll, all this you have been saying looks like your taking joes side........ :angryfire:

And joe you dont make sense by saying give me proof that there is a heaven.....Its like saying i want proof that there is a living god..?!? ???



Edited By (ShinKu_Ryu) on Mar. 21 2004 at 19:14

[quote:post_uid0="(ShinKu_Ryu)"]Mou5y You dont make sense...and roll, all this you have been saying looks like your taking joes side........ :angryfire:

And joe you dont make sense by saying give me proof that there is a heaven.....Its like saying i want proof that there is a living god..?!? ???[/quote]
Technically, I am not taking any side. I respect all beliefs that are shared around the world, and I think it wrong to judge any of them harshly. But at the same time, if someone tries to impose their beliefs as superior, or tries to impose that what they've found to be true to them is supposed to be the ultimate truth for all people, then I will go against them for that. No one has the right to say that, no matter how many people think similarly. Even you have to admit that it's wrong to do that.

And what Joe asks for makes sense. It's.. like when a child says that there are monsters under the bed. If you can prove to them that there are none, then they'll feel better and safer, and they will calm down.

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"][quote:post_uid0="(ShinKu Ryu)"]Mou5y You dont make sense...and roll, all this you have been saying looks like your taking joes side........ :angryfire:

And joe you dont make sense by saying give me proof that there is a heaven.....Its like saying i want proof that there is a living god..?!? ???[/quote]
Technically, I am not taking any side. I respect all beliefs that are shared around the world, and I think it wrong to judge any of them harshly. But at the same time, if someone tries to impose their beliefs as superior, or tries to impose that what they've found to be true to them is supposed to be the ultimate truth for all people, then I will go against them for that. No one has the right to say that, no matter how many people think similarly. Even you have to admit that it's wrong to do that.

And what Joe asks for makes sense. It's.. like when a child says that there are monsters under the bed. If you can prove to them that there are none, then they'll feel better and safer, and they will calm down.[/quote]
The example you gave of a child being afraid of a monster under the bed does dot make sense to......... :shocked:

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"]It may not be a joke, but it is still wrong to try and sway other people's judgements with a newspaper article like they did. Anyone who would start saying "Praise God now, lest you should burn like a chicken on a barbeque!" is a type of person who I would believe to be filled with follies, have concerns that are too irrational, and keep lax morals.[/quote]
i see hell in my other streetfighterex3 game when you win you see hell

Shauku(Nantuko Joe)...All you talk is about is debate,after debate...
Were just giving off some things on what people BELIEVE cause we don't really care wut is your BELIEVE and whatnot...
(im not only focusing on you though)SYBRD is just showing us some things he read in an appropiate way of what he thinks and stuff...And then u come in and you start your debate thing and you start an arguement..i noe its your opinion but next time slow it down
cause were not 21 or summin :biggrin:
Btw,Can a mod pls close this topic?



Edited By VampireNinja on Mar. 21 2004 at 20:16

[color=red:post_uid6]Joe its not that no one is capable of debating besides Roll, SByrd, and Tark. The thing is Christianity is heavily based on faith. There isn't any real way to prove that anything on that page is fact, that's why I disagree with the way James is proclaiming it as hard evidence. Anyone can find a few verses in the bible, throw them onto a web page, add something flashy and try to make a case. I was shown that site a month or two ago by a girl from school. To me Hell is all too real, I really don't need a web site to tell me that its not a place I would like to be for an eternity. In church we learn about giving our life over to God and living righteous, so that BS recording didn't sway my opinion about Hell anymore than it may have swayed yours lol. Its true that you do have good points Joe, but seriously religion is only fact to those who believe it is, science cant explain everything, and no one is really sure what happens after death.[/color:post_uid6]

But Blossom,Do you go to Church?And you believe that theres a Hell and theres no Heaven?I understand your post and everything but i can't calculate the meaning.Ok lets say..How do you noe theres a Hell?And no Heaven?

Anyways,im just leaving your opinions to yourself.If you don't want to believe,i don't really care.But if you do,then its cool.And im not judging peoples opinions or leaving them out for what they think

Im just making it clear :biggrin:



Edited By VampireNinja on Mar. 21 2004 at 21:10

Geez why cant people see that Humans are Animals. We ARE apart of the animal Kingdom. People see it all wrong of the evloution of human we did not come from monkeys or apes. Matter of fact we are really no where near apes. It is the chimpanzees, we all have a common ancestor. But then in evloution it branched of to apes,monkeys humans and Chimps. Chimpanzees share 99.4 percent of functionally important DNA with humans and belong in our genus. Thats very close number if youask me. And the mostly main reason we evolved and other animals and plants evolved. Was for suirval, adaption to the environment. Notice how animals in cold places can surivie the cold winters.

And if God did create the universe why all the other planets? And how come they said nothing about the great large Dinos that ruled the earth. If god created man and animals and gave Adam the chance to name them all. I mean how could Adam and Eve be true? Tell me who in the hell took note and kept track of this during that time. Im pretty sure God didnt have a journal he wrote in everyday. Day 1 made earth...... come on I find that very hard to believe they have what he did and made each day. And all the bull of how they eat the fruit from this forbidden tree. And god kicked them out and sealed of the garden. And thats why everyone is born with a sin. Come on ive read fairy tales more believable.



Edited By MasterX05 on Mar. 21 2004 at 23:19

ok... time i join this DEBATE of yours...

1 - the temperature rising might have been a flock LAVA coming out of the center of the earth. we all know that 40 kilometer below us is a living hell of flames, magma and lava !

2 - the voices heard could everything on earth and still not be human voices ! been proved that many people's heard supposed voices of humans and the likes but in the end it was just wind, earth and mainly everything else besides human voices !

3 - has they prooved that deal with video footage and the likes, no they only recorded sounds which could have been everything else besides human voices !

4 - the bible is only a fairy tale. (at least for me)

5 - If hell exists then how come we prooved that there is no HEAVEN besides the clouds ? (satellites prooved this too well)

6 - if hell really exists, then how comes our so sofisticated sensors didn't detected it way earlier ?

7 - if that was true, then how come we never saw any demons coming out of there since we supposedly openned the door up ?

8 - why wouldn't they be able to come out by themselves ?

9 - does this mean that if i die, i will not be going away but i will go down and into the center of earth ?

10 - do you think i prooved my point or you need of me to go on like this ?

i'm not turning this down as you might think... i'm just asking for a lot more proofs then a single recording that could be anything !

[quote:post_uid0="SSJKarma"]ok... time i join this DEBATE of yours...

1 - the temperature rising might have been a flock LAVA coming out of the center of the earth. we all know that 40 kilometer below us is a living hell of flames, magma and lava !

2 - the voices heard could everything on earth and still not be human voices ! been proved that many people's heard supposed voices of humans and the likes but in the end it was just wind, earth and mainly everything else besides human voices !

3 - has they prooved that deal with video footage and the likes, no they only recorded sounds which could have been everything else besides human voices !

4 - the bible is only a fairy tale. (at least for me)

5 - If hell exists then how come we prooved that there is no HEAVEN besides the clouds ? (satellites prooved this too well)

6 - if hell really exists, then how comes our so sofisticated sensors didn't detected it way earlier ?

7 - if that was true, then how come we never saw any demons coming out of there since we supposedly openned the door up ?

8 - why wouldn't they be able to come out by themselves ?

9 - does this mean that if i die, i will not be going away but i will go down and into the center of earth ?

10 - do you think i prooved my point or you need of me to go on like this ?

i'm not turning this down as you might think... i'm just asking for a lot more proofs then a single recording that could be anything ![/quote]
No offense, but all were points I already made; plus the fact that that article came from the National Inquirer.

The debate has seemingly turned to the overall debate between science vs the bible, or so it would seem. Actually it's not much of a debate, considering how only one person is bringing debate materials, me, while the other is making unbacked claims, flat-out stating that i'm wrong without providing reasons, ignoring my debate materials, and claiming that everyone's ignoring his points while I've been debating his every point into the ground.

Roll doesn't even know what debating is for that matter.....he is either on the opposing side and the defending side, he is been spamming. Anyways Joe i did prove of a how there must be source that created the whole universe. why do u think some gay people think God created Adam and Steve instead of Adam and Eve? So basically ur saying that humans evolved from baboons.......well i've heard scientist say humans evolved from apes not baboons.....the prove that humans evolved from apes and the fact that God created humans....I think the humans evolving from apes just doesn't make sense because we are special not the same with animals. I'm not ignoring ur points i just dont think they make any sense....without that source that created the universe we would not exist. ???

Actually Roll is a she, not a he (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong). Roll is actually an excellent debator, and has not been spamming, but providing us with her own outlook on religion/science/spirituality. You just choose to flame her because you don't like what she's saying.

No gay man actually believes that god created Adam and Steve. That's just a horrible prejudicial stereotype bestowed down upon homosexuals because they're different from heterosexuals.

Um....I NEVER said "baboons." In every single post I've made, I've said "apes," or more specifically, "chimpanzees." And you yell at me for putting words in YOUR mouth.

No, the FACT that humans evolved from apes vs the THEORY that god created humans.....it's only THEORY because it's never been proven true.

How are we special? We ARE animals. The ONLY difference between us and say, a chimp, are the following:

--We are more highly evolved. This means...
------Our DNA contains better chromosomes
------Our brains are larger and more well-developed

That's the only difference. We are not "special." We are animals that have better brains than we do. Just like the shark has a better swimming ability than we do, and just like birds have wings and can fly wheras we cannot.

Exactly, I fully agree. But how do you KNOW that the source is god? How do you know that the source wasn't the Big Bang? Scientists have already PROVEN that the universe is still expanding. It is FACT. It is TRUTH. The universe is expanding, and you cannot deny it, because it's happening as we speak.

So if the universe is expanding, then if we go backwards in time, the universe would start shrinking, and eventually wind all the way back to one single solitary point in space, where the big bang occurred...SUPPOSEDLY. It's NOT fact, it's NOT truth, but it's theory that's BASED ON EVIDENCE.

What evidence is there to suggest that your god really exists? A book, and that's it. What evidence is there to suggest that human evolution is fact, wheras god is a theory? All the evidence in the world. As you so eloquently put it....the proof is all around you, it's everywhere. You just choose not to see it.

But you ARE ignoring my points. I provided a huge post on human evolution based on FACT. What did you say?

"no joe ur wrong the scientists are wrong and lying to everyone and themselves"

dubya tee eff is that? First off, that's NOT how you debate. You pick apart the post as a whole and debate each of its points one by one. You don't simply say "ur wrong."

I don't think YOUR points make any sense, but does that stop me from debating them? No!

So until YOU start debating my points, which you don't understand even though they're based on FACT, then I'm going to ignore YOUR points, and for the same reason you gave me. "because they don't make sense."

And you say that I'm blind, that everyone else is blind. At least we are open to criticism, at least we are open to try and see things from another point of view. I USED to believe in god, but simply saw things from a different point of view. And I still am open to other ideas. Roll's beliefs are intriguing to me, there could be something there.

But you, on the other hand, are NOT open to other ideas. Anything you don't agree with, you meet with hostile rejection. By stating that there is no such thing as reincarnation (as if you had proof to back your claim), you've publicly stated not that you THINK other religions are wrong, but that they ARE wrong, once again with no evidence to back your claims. And you ask me a question, I provide cold hard data, actual FACT supporting my argument, and then simply say "no joe ur wrong." Once again, you did NOT say "well that's a good argument, but my beliefs are different" or "I THINK ur wrong," but you flat-out state "joe ur wrong the scientists are wrong." That's some bullcrap. To flat-out state that is to ignore the truth.

Back when I believed in god and the bible, I was the same way. I didn't want to believe science. I was afraid that I was wrong and that there was another explanation out there, a better explanation. But unlike you, who completely shuts out not just suggestions, but FACT, I was open to new ideas. I was able to think for myself without rejecting all other beliefs.

__________

Now.....debates are fought by providing cold, hard data. In a courtroom, if you were to debate the existence of god, you would need to bring evidence, bring proof, to the table in order to even be able to speak. If someone got into a political debate about god and the opposing side brought forth debate materials such as I did....fact that has been PROVEN true....this material would HAVE to be recognized by both the audience and the other debate team at large. If the one side of the debate makes a claim, but has no evidence, their argument is null and void.

So tell me, who has the better argument? The side that says "I say that god does not exist, for these reasons (reason a, reason b, reason c, etc) and here is the evidence to prove it."?

Or the side that says "No, the other team is wrong, all their evidence is wrong, because I don't think it makes sense. God is real, and if you don't think so, you're blinded to the real world."

Really. In an actual rational argument, who really makes more sense? The side that presents rational fact, or the side that makes claims without providing proof and insulting the other team?

My point is that unless you are actually going to debate my points, don't post at all, because YOUR posts would be considered spam.

Besides, how can you say that you're "very good in science," say that you "have the edge in this debate," yet say that my science-based proof makes no sense? It's the simple fact of human evolution! How can you claim to be good at science not only when you say that science makes no sense, but when you say that science is wrong? That makes less sense than anything else you've insisted upon thus far....well, almost....

Yes: I am, always have been, and always will be a girl. ^-^
..and thank you for the defence, Joe. *hugs*

I'd just like to point out right here that I was then one that started an argument, and debate. Don't give him blame when it wasn't truly his fault in the first place.
....and what's wrong with debating? '

Really? Give us an example. Let me guess DMC?

[quote:post_uid0="alamgir"]Really? Give us an example. Let me guess DMC?[/quote]
*doesn't have a clue what DMC stands for or is*

If you meant for the game thing, I was kind of leaning towards the Breath of Fire 2 game. I can't say much for any other Breath of Fire games, since I have not had the chance to play them. Also, some Street Fighter characters are quite "religious".

Nantuko, there is no offence to be taken into account, i didn't read the topic entirely on purpose, i knew tat what i was saying would have probably been said already. so there is no offense taken !

as for some facts...
well nantuko you said science has proofs as well !
well take it from this point of view...

who said 2 + 2 = 4 ?
why is it so ?
who created science ?
and why humans do mistakes ?

if you take all these 4 questions into accounts... you notice how science is purely made by a being that makes lots of mistakes, then why wouldn't science be our biggest mistake ? science could be wrong, not entirely but mainly.

so i am on the side that everything could be everything.
science didn't solved half of the events we had in life.

as in, depending on science, 10/10 things are bad for our health !
yet we live in this world so how come it is bad for our health ?

knowing that, i know for a fact, my fact, my opinion, that nothing can be prooved in existence. unless you, the person, actually experienced it yourself !

as for religions... well i say all of them are derived from only one truth, but that in history got viewed by so many people. that it deformed completely and now each single religion as a little piece of it right !

the best example is...
the game we called telephone, play it with more then 10 friends and see howbad the first sentence was changed. now take the bible and extrapolate it, same with all books of all religions. notice how the books of today cannot be true to what they were 2000 years ago ! because it is 2000 years of extrapolation, 2000 years of change to the text, 2000 years of view from different people who didn't even see the same thing.

so knowing this, how can these books be true in the end ?

as for the big bang theory...
well its true that the universe is expanding, but was it always expanding ?
let's say the universe was not expanding, something very big happens and bang, it throws all the system away. what we see today is an expansion yes... but there is no way for us to know that the system was just a small point in the universe history. it could have been a small system that was running normally when its sun exploded and brought disaster to the whole solar system which threw all planets in it away and since some of them have been crashing thru each others, it threw zillions of rocks true the universe thus creating everything else.

see, there is multiple point of view, but there is no way to know which one will ever be true.

there is one thing i always learned around here... you don't live in the past, so does it matter to know what hapenned and why we are here right now debating about this ?

my answer, no, there is no reason to that. because it won't change anything about our present lives. so live in the time you are now, god or not, you still gotta live your life the way you want it to be lived ! and no one can make you live the life you don't want to !

don't take it wrong... i became ATHEIST because there was no proof from any side that things really happenned. i believe my own belif and that's the only thing that matter for me ! that's all that should matter for everyone else as well !

Before I pour out my guts in this topic, I'd like to congratulate folks who have debated and reasoned like normal human beings.. To the other wombats... well good luck and God speed :biggrin:

Now first off, I'll head for the topic.. SBYRD5.. I've heard of this incident.. but from what I believe and what I can comprehend, hell is real.. but definitely not anywhere on this planet. Just like heaven, it's spiritual.. and it takes faith for you to believe.. If you think it's real.. then it is.. If you think it's not.. then that's your cup of tea with bread, milk and sugar. Whether or not the one party is correct or wrong, it wouldn't matter to the other one and vice versa.


Now this is from Blossom

This is one of the most reasonable things I've read in this topic.

As a christain, to argue with an unbeliever (no offense) is to reason at the same threshold with them. What on earth gives you the knowledge that you can infact prove that God does exist.. when you know very well that He is spirit and by faith... only by faith do we follow his doctrine.

The Bible is his word.. and that's the so-called code of honor we follow... That doesn't mean that it can be used in a forum like this.. where different minds, Point of views and logic.
Some ppl believe in science, some ppl believe in wombats.. *cougH* and some ppl believe in God. :biggrin:

Before I go on, just for those still wondering I am a christain!

Nowback to my point. If you are... as a christain, going to debate on a topic as delicate as this, you must remember that in our Bible, it does in fact say that there are ppl that are gonna disagree with ours and we cannot force them to think the way we think. Instead try to make them see that your way is the correct way.. and if they don't fine.. If they do.. fine. Remember Paul said that we would be the most reasonable set of ppl on this earth if in all honesty, our beliefs aren't truth..and our faith has no substance.

Now those of you who aren't christains.. This topic took a quick, sharp and unhealthy turn. I've always run away from these types in forums like this (don't know why.. must be my stupidity. :biggrin: ) But for some reason, I do like the way you guys put your facts down.
But be warned.. that there is in fact some physical .. though rare... evidence that there is a God.
Think of it this way.. Everything in your life that has occured.. right from the day you were born to this day. Can every single thing be explained by science. Can you explain coincidence, luck or somethings that just work in your favor.. or not in your favor?
If you can.. then good luck to ya.. For I wouldn't believe it one bit!

But I am for one open to ideas.. like you Joe. If there's one thing I share with some of you, it's the fact that the beliefs of others intrigue me. And I'm willing to read more if they infact exist.

Now to the whole big bang theory.. Well, to me.. it makes no sense.. Sure it's fact that the universe is expanding.. but how on earth can you tell me that the world was created from an explosion? And to those who believe that humans evolved from Ape or monkeys or chimpazees.. Get ur facts straight. I've indeed read the theory that the sceintist put out.. but for Darwin to call on God's name in his death bed.. after his theory on evolution.. heh..
Ok.. Let me put it this way.. Humans didn't evolve from chimpazees.. cause if they did.. Why didn't the other chimpazees involve??
Now an earlier species known as the Australopethicus Africanus or in the early man is where we evolved from. From that to the homo habilis (cause they could handle stuff).. to the homo erectus (cause they could walk straight) and to the present homo sapiens.. (cause they think.. which isn't sometimes good for them.) Now do I believe in what I've just wrote.. maybe.. maybe not. But that's just the origin of the present human beings according to science.

If infact the science was true and correct and accurate all along, then why haven't the homo sapiens evolved.. after living for such a long time?? These are just some of the questions.. that how should I say.. distorts my belief in science and evolution as the origin of man.

That statement.. who ever made it has no substance.. so I wouldn't bother making any comment to it.

Now I'll attack the gays.. I have nothing against homo sexuals.. except the main question every straight.. so to say person asks... How on earth do.. well you get the idea.. :biggrin: I wouldn't go into that.. But for those who say they are christains and are gay.. Pure folly! You say you believe in God.. and yet you don't follow his words.. Then you are stupid. You should try reading the first chapter of Romans to understand what I'm saying.
Now if you're gay and you don't believe in God.. then I've got nothing against you.. All I can do is ask why.. Like a certain wombat once said,

How... on the other hand seems to be a more reasonable question.

And if you want more evidence that God does exist, think about your sleeping and waking up everyday.. Why don't you just sleep and die in your sleep like some ppl do. Well, I know there's a basic and very brillaint scientific explanation to that.. so I'd like to hear.. for this brainless child hasn't dug deeper into that realm of knowledge.

I'll like to end my epistle on this quote. Truly.. you would win for you have brought evidence that partain to this world.. and in cold fact God doesn't exist.. for there's nothing physical.. or man like about him. He's spirit.. and those who choose to have faith in him believe and walk in his part, do so in spirit and truth.. and definitely not with facts that would work in a courtroom.

Feast ur eyes on my ownment and drool.. *cough* j/k :biggrin:

--nuff said!

Edit: Oh and btw the wombat that made that quote about digging deeper into why.. instead of asking how was blanka09 :biggrin:



Edited By blanka09 on Mar. 22 2004 at 14:38

What? did u not read my post? Im not sure where u got baboons from but we did not evolve FROM apes. We all had that one common ancestor but it then branched of to monkeys, apes, chimps. The reason we know this as a fact cuase of the closenes we have with chimps. Like look at the birds take a small blue jay and a Hawk. They are both birds right? But u think that a big hawk evolved out of that small bird into the big preadtor it is? Same with Dogs and wolfs they did not evolve out of each other. And the bobcat and normal cat. Im just putting this down as a example.


Devil May Cry is what he means roll. And I have played Breath of Fire 2 (to bad it got erased before I made it to the end) And that gaem did pick on the religon thing. Of how the people where brainwash to worship this false god and the prist was a demon or sumthing. And if youdid not take into it they would have killed u.


The johavah Witness believe that there are Demons that cuase all the bad luck and choas on the earth. Sounds crazy and so I am to belive my luck in winning the lottery. Or taking my school basketball game to finals and making the final shot. Its God that gives us this good luck or turn arounds in life?


Excatly what ive been trying to say from the start. Meaning that every word from word cannot be true in the Bible.

..Oh no, not another Pro/Con religion topic. ???
Elena is correct, this topic should have been closed along time ago.

Religion is a personal choice, and should be kept and shared with ones friends and family and not forced upon the public.
There are entire forums on the internet dedicated to these kinds of discussions...this is not one of them.

I do know one thing though...

The universe is too old, vast and complex in it's entirety for mankind to ever fully grasp and understand as a whole.
No matter how long the human race exists or how evolved our technology gets, the "whole" will always be larger then our ability to understand "why".

The events of the universe, including life..."just are".
And we are bound to these events and circumstances weather we want to be or not.

Live your life the way you want to, believe the things you wish to believe, do the things you wish to do, and be happy that others are doing the same.

The universe is an organized cycling chaos from all appearances, it only makes sense that it's organisms are too.

This topic is now CLOSED



Edited By nosoul4evr on Mar. 22 2004 at 20:59