[*]Tenshinhan should be probably arround 1,800 if you don't put a range for him.

[*]Krillin should be lowered to around 1,500, just make Piccolo at 2,500, if you want to make a range for him, don't make his high range higher than 2,800.
[*]Gohan when he got healed should be a tad higher than Krillin, and when he turns oozaru, he should lose some energy because before that, Vegeta kept beating Gohan down, and Gohan had trouble getting up.

This is all good, but Vegeta's PL should be lowered when he's facing oozaru Gohan, because like you said, when Yajirobe slashed him, he was fealing pain realy hard, and he didn't seem as agile as when he recovered from the kamehameha.

Krillin after power-up should be a bit lower than Zarbon(around 20,0000), and Gohan should be much ahead of him, probably 23,000-25,000. And when they get healed, Krillin should be at around 26,000. Vegeta(im sure it was him) stated that Krillin could've beaten Ginyu(in Goku's body) if he wanted to, and they were even in th fight, so it shows that Krillin wasn't trying as hard. Gohan should be be at least at 30,000(I put him between 29,000-35,000.


Freiza's men seem okay, so does Kui and Dodoria. Zarbon should be just at 22,000. 22,500 seems a bit high, Vegeta would have trouble beating Zarbon. His monster form is good, and his after heal is good. I don't know how he got over his max against Rikuum, when his max was against Giny(monster form in the 2nd match). I would just think Rikuum just wanted to get pummeled(seeing how he's an idiot).

When he's healed with the senzu seed and fighting against Jeice, he should be higher than Goku's max base(which was 90,000), but lower than Goku's kaio-ken level(which was 180,000). I'd put him between 100,000-160,000.

We figured out that Jeice is stronger than Baata, but we don't know which is stronger between Jeice and Rikuum, or if both Jeice and Baata are stronger than Rikuum. But I know why he came up with the Ginyu force. There was a japanese TV show (forgot what it was called), he liked it very much, so he based off the characters in the show to the Ginyu force. You can look at his interviews here:

http://www.dbz-fan.net/sections.shtml

you will see a link to his interviews, some interviews are stupid, so just scroll down.


Vegeta should't be even with Freiza, I'd put him at 340,000, which is a 9% advatage that Freiza has, not enough to dominate against Vegeta.

This is the part where PL's just start to get out of hand, so you don't know which one is right(but this is where our friend range comes in).

Freiza didn't state his max was "over one million", he said his strength at the time was "over one million"(probably 1,060,000). so since he was using 60%(most likely his %, his max would be at) 1,700,000-1,800,000.

Piccolo should be between 43,000-100,000, and when he fuses with Nail, he was stated to be stronger thanFreiza(60%), then Freiza powered up to what is most likely 90%, and beat the crap out of Piccolo, then Piccolo took off his weights, and was about even with 90% Freiza.


Right after Furiiza transformed into his 3rd form, Gokuu states he can't do anything against this form of Furiiza, which pretty much means Furiiza had surpassed Gokuu's max of 1,800,000 with Kaiou-ken x20(90,000 * 20). I'd say Freiza form 3(60%) is between 2,000,000-2,300,000, so his max would be between 3,000,000-4,000,000.

Where's Vegeta, and this is where Freiza saga gets really complicated, though the levels are pretty low, you've got the general facts almost right. Freiza should be at 20% first, then he poweres up to 30%, which kk*10 Goku, and Freiza face off. when Goku uses kk*20, his PL should be lowered, and Freiza uses 70%, not 75%. And SSJ Goku(max), and Freiza(max) should be even, but it's because freiza gets stressed, that Goku has the advantage.


I won't go into anything after the Freiza saga, since I don't know where to start


About your times, I most likely can't get there those times since I'll be asleep(most likely), but I'll try too.

Ok, how about 1,600-1,800

I'll put Kuririn at 1,550. Piccolo, however, should be near (or at) the 3,000 mark. When Nappa shot the beam at Gohan, and Piccolo jumped in the way, Piccolo was still standing up, and this surprised Nappa. I think that Piccolo should be a bit higher, maybe even at 3,100. I'll give him a range of 2,500-3,100

So, Gohan after healed: 1,800
Gohan after getting beatdown by Vegeta: 1,300
Ozourou Gohan: 13,000

So Ozourou Vegeta: 100,000-150,000
-after tail chopped off: 10,000-15,000
-after slashed by Yajirobe: 9,000-11,000

You're right. So:
Gohan on Namek: 1,500-2,000
-after power up: 24,000
-after healed: 30,000
Kuririn on Namek: 1,500-2,000
-after power up: 21,000
-after healed: 26,000

Well, Vegeta prolly didn't power up to his max while fighting Zaabon, so he'd be at 30,000-32,000 powered up. However, when Vegeta prepared to fight Rikum, he was straining very hard to build up his power level, and had to try hard to get to his max. Therefore, I'm sticking with 35,000-37,000. And you're right about after Senzu power level: he'd be stronger than Goku's base, but not much. Here's my new chart:

Furiza's Men: around 1,200
Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zaabon: 22,000
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-After Heal, powered up: 30,000-32,000
-max vs Rikum: 35,000-37,000
-Healed vs Jisu: 110,000

I don't think Furiza had THAT much of an advantage. They were about even when they grasped hands, and Furiza was really going at it. I'd give Furiza maybe a 5% advantage. So...

Furiza: 371,000
Vegeta: 352,450

I don't think we can know for sure what Furiza was at. Since Furiza's max in form 1 was 530,000, his max in form 2 would be twice his max in form 1, which would leave us with 1,060,000. However, according to you, that's not the case. I believe that his power level in each form is twice his previous max, until he reaches Form 4. Because this is Furiza's natural form, he can reach a lot more power in this form, and therefore his 25% power would be twice that of his form 3 max (which I have at 2,120,000).

However, if Furiza was only at 60% power (as you say), that would mean that Furiza form 2 60% power would be 636,000, but that's WAY too low.

You and I are going to have to find out how to calculate Furiza's max in each form. This is what I just thought up of as I was typing the last sentence:

Furiza form 1 max: 530,000

Furiza Form 2, 50%: 1,060,000 (50% is 2x previous form's max)
Furiza Form 2, 60%: 1,272,000
Furiza Form 2 100%: 2,120,000 (100% is 2x 50%)

Furiza Form 3 50% power: 4,240,000 (50% is 2x previous max)
Furiza Form 3 100% power: 8,480,000(100% is 2x 50%)

Furiza Form 4 20%: 13,568,000
*note: Furiza Form 4 25% would be 2x Furiza Form 3 max*
Furiza Form 4 30%: 20,352,000
Furiza Form 4 50% power: 33,920,000
Furiza Form 4 70% power: 47,488,000
Furiza Form 4 100% power: 67,840,000

Therefore, Goku would be:
Goku's Base Power: 1,938,286
Goku Kaiokenx10:19,382,857
Goku Kaiokenx20: 38,765,720
SSJ Goku: 52,333,722 (27x base power)
SSJ Goku Max: 67,840,000

Tell me what you think of these. They make sense (mathematically), after all

[quote:post_uid0="Nantuko Joe"]Those levels YOU just listed aren't correct. Goku's level is still a tad high. Hell, the only way to get the correct levels is through mathematical calculations and comparisons

Now that akuma brings that up:

Tark, those Furiza levels are ridiculous. Remember that growth percentage chart I gave you in the SFvsDBZ debate? There's NO WAY that according to the recorded power growth of goku that he could have gotten levels even a quarter of the strength you have him at. 70 million and 100 million? Lemme list them again for you.

Goku Vs: Radditsu (w/o weighted clothing): 416
Goku's Kamehameha: 924

Now, we can consider his power level using the Kame Hame Ha as his max power. Now, the next level we have for Goku is while fighting Nappa.

Goku's kamehameha vs Radditsu: 924
Goku vs Nappa: around 8,000
% increase in power: 865%

Now, not counting Kaio-kens during this period, his max was around 8,000. The next level we have for him is on namek.

Goku Vs Nappa: 8,000
Goku on Namek: 90,000
% increase in power: 1,125%

Now, we can't determine the next time Goku maxes out without using the Kaio-ken, because he was using it the entire fight with Furiza. Therefore, the next max level we would have for Goku would be SSJ Goku at his max. Since you have Furiza listed at around 20 million, let's assume that Goku was also at 20 million (they were pretty evenly-matched during the fight.

Goku on Namek: 90,000
SSJ Goku: 20,000,000
% increase in power: 22,200%

22,200%! In about a day! For Goku to increase the 850% to fight Nappa, it took a whole year. To increase the 1,100% increase it took I think a month, while training under extremely harsh conditions (100x earths gravity). Now, for someone to make a 22,200% increase just by being healed and transforming in a day or so seems extremely unrealistic, even compared to normal DBZ growth levels. Better yet, you have Goku maxed at 100,000,000:

Goku on Namek: 90,000
SSJ Goku: 100,000,000
% increase in power: 111,111% increase!

THAT is damn near impossible, even by DBZ standards. There's no way in hell Goku got THAT strong THAT quick.[/quote]
i got them through a site nantuk ;)

another vs ???

I'm pretty sure they sell them, I remember they sold them at Toy's ur rus 3 years ago, it's dubbed, so no swearing, but hey, its better than the anime, and anime dub.

but go to this site:

http://www.dbz-fan.net/manga

download manga there, and if you need mroe help, contact me on AIM: CenturionMario

That was me that said that, and in SF, ki manipulation, and fighting skills are very different. Dhalsim can control a whole lot of ki, yet he can't beat Akuma.

I'd put him at from 1,600-1,900, seems a bit more right.

Kriilin is okay, Piccolo shouldn't be at or above 2,800, Piccolo stated to Gohan, if yuo get mad, you'll become stronger than me. Piccolo is below 2,800, though I put him at 2,500, and I think you the same too.

Gohan should be a tad higher than Krillin, maybe around 1,600. And I think Gohan would lose more power than that.

This is good, but I think after he got his tail cut off, he got stressed a lot, so he lossed some power.

These are alright

Seems good, I still have some doubts about his PL against Rikuum, and maybe you should just put him between 100,000-160,000, when he gets healed, seems more accurate.


Well they were about even, but Freiza clearly had the advantage, after they grasped hands, Vegeta was gasping for air, and Freiza felt as if nothing had happened to him, and if you want to have Freiza have a 5% advantage over Vegeta, don't make Vegeta's level that awkward. Levels haven't been that "retarded" since the Raditz saga. make him at least at 352,000, though I think he's at 340,000.


Why do you think his max would be twice his previous form(not including form 4)? And he started out at 20% in form 4. His % always and in "0" for obvious reasons.

Yeah, 636,000 is way too close to his form 1 max that's a 20% difference.

I don't think Freiza is ever at 50% in his first 3 forms, he is always at 60%, not including form 4. Freiza then powers up a few frames, so I would guess he's at 90%, since he seems so close to his max.

Again, Freiza should be at 60%, and I think that's a pretty high level for Freiza. When Freiza transformed to form 3, Goku said he doesn't stand a chance, which he meant 90,000 with kaio-ken * 20 which is 1,800,000. I would at least put 60% form 3 Freiza at between 2,000,000-3,000,000, and max would be between 3,000,000-5,000,000.


hmm.... these seem a bit awkward, but I don't know how to put it. The % and math calculations are right, but this is where you usually do range. These are mine, but I haven't put much work in form 4 Freiza's power levels.

Freiza(form 4, 20%): 4,500,000-20,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 30%): 6,750,000-30,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 50%): 11,250,000-50,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 70%): 15,750,000-70,000,000
Freiza(form 4, max): 22,500,000-100,000,000

Woah...! PL's are always ending in 0 after the Raditz saga, if you find a PL that doesn't end in 0, just round it off to the nearest. example: 333,333,333, round off to 333,000,000. 45,234 would be 45,000, etc... Anyways:

Goku should lose power when going into kaio-ken*20, and when he's at kk*20, he should be a tad lower than 50% Freiza not 12% higher.

You have Goku when just turning SSJ close to Freiza at 70%. When they fought, SSJ Goku beat the #### out of Freiza, and wasn't even touched.

We need to find a way to get right PL's, and agree with them. We've got the right mathematics, but wrong about the PL's.

I have a friend by the name of SSJ Scokou. He is one of the best DB"Z" debaters in the world, his AIM is Shyu Gyou. Maybe he can help us out on our PL's.

If you read it, then you will realise this is not a VS topic.

Ok, Tark and I have finally finished up the power levels up through the Furiza Saga (The Trunks, Android, Cell, and Buu sagas should be here soon). Here are the power levels:

Radditsu Saga
Farmer: 5
Goku w/weight: 334
-w/o weight: 416
-Kamehameha: 924-1,00
Piccolo w/weight: 322
-w/o weight: 408
-Makankosappo: 1,330
-2nd try: 1,200-1,300
Gohan: 1
-enraged: 1,307
Radditsu: 1,200

After Battle
Muten Roshi: 139
Kuririn: 206
Tenshinhan: 250
Yamucha: 177
Piccolo w/weight: 329
Chaozu: 130-150

Saiya-jin Saga
Yamucha: 1,300
Chaozu: 1,010-1,100
Piccolo: 2,500-2,750
Tenshinhan: 1,800
--one-armed Kikohou: 2,100
Kuririn: 1,500
-healed: 1,700
Gohan: 1,100
-Masenko: 2,800
-healed with Senzu: 1,800
-beat-up by Vegeta: 1,000
-Ozourou: 10,000
Saibamen: 1,200 each
Nappa: 7.500
Goku: 5,000
-Max: 8,100
-Kaioken: 16,200
-KKx2: 16,200 (increase in speed)
-KKx3: 24,000
-KKx4: 28,000
Vegeta: 16,000
-Max: 18,000
-Gallic Haou: 24,000
-After Kamehameha: 10,000-15,000*
-Ozourou: 100,000-150,000
-No tail, vs Ozourou Gohan: 7,000-8,000**
*Because of the damage caused by the Kamehameha, Vegeta's PL would have been lowered drastically
**After Yajirobe sliced off Vegeta's tail and sliced through Vegeta's armor, Vegeta seemed totally thrashed, and thusly would have had his power lowered even more.

Furiza Saga
Gohan: 2,000
-Power up: 23,000
Kuririn: 2,000
-Power up: 21,000
Furiza's Men: 1,200 each
Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zarbon: 22,000
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-healed, vs Zarbon Monster 2nd try: 30,000-32,000*
*Vegeta was stronger than Zarbon Monster, but due to the fact he had to use some "dirty" tricks (ie, sand in the eyes), we can assume that he wasn't TAHT MUCH stronger than Zarbon Monster

Ginyu Force
Gerudo: 5,000-10,000
Rikum: 45,000*
Baata: 39,000*
Jisu: 42,000*
Ginyu: 120,000
-in Goku's Body: 23,000
Gohan: 23,000
-senzu: 28,000-30,000
Kuririn: 21,000
-senzu: 26,000
Vegeta (supressed): 24,000
-power up: 30,000-32,000
-Max: 35,000-37,000
-senzu, vs Jisu: 115,000**
Goku: 5,000 (supressed)
-vs Jisu and Baata: 60,000
-Max: 90,000
-Kaioken: 180,000
*here is how we figured out the levels for Baata, Jisu, and Rikum. Rikum has the greatest pure strength and stamina of the three, but the lowest speed. Therefore, he would have the highest power level. Judging from this, we can say that since Baata had the fastest speed, he had the lowest strength. Since speed does not impact pure power, his power level would have been the lowest of the three. Now, going by this, we can assume that Jisu was stronger than Baata (in anime, usually the person who simply lasts the longest has a higher PL). Since Jisu was stronger and slower than Baata, but weaker and faster than Rikum, we get his power level in the middle
**We figured that Vegeta's power level after getting healed would be higher than Goku's base power level. However, it is stated that Vegeta, due to stress and lack of sleep for several days, actually had his power level lowered. Therefore, his 115,000 power against Jisu would be even higher, probably around 125,000-130,000 if he was not tired and stressed

Furiza vs nail
Furiza, 60%: 318,000
Nail: 42,000
Piccolo (w/weight): 48,000
Piccolo (w/weight, fused with Nail): 1,500,000

Vs Furiza
Vegeta Max: 346,000
Furiza, 70%: 371,000
-If at max: 530,000
-Form 2, 60%: 1,060,000
Gohan: 1,200,000
Furiza, 80%: 1,400,000
Piccolo w/weight: 1,500,000
Furiza, 90%: 1,600,000
Piccolo w/o weight: 1,600,000
Kuririn healed: 30,000-40,000
Furiza Form 3, 60%: 2,200,000
Gohan: 2,300,000
Furiza Form 4, 20%: 10,800,000
Piccolo healed: 2,000,000

Final Fight
Furiza, 20%: 10,800,000
Vegeta healed, max: 10,800,000
Furiza, 30%: 16,200,000
Goku's base: 1,500,000
-KKx10: 15,000,000
Furiza, 50%: 27,000,000
Goku KKx20: 24,800,000
Furiza, 70%: 37,800,000
Goku's Genki Dama: 30,000,000
SSJ Goku: 45,000,000
Furiza 100%: 54,000,000*
SSJ Goku Max: 54,000,000*
*upon seeing these levels, asshole made this statement:
A good point, but many ppl fail to remember: It is stated in both the anime and the manga that due to stress and tiredness, Furiza's power level was lowered to the point where he was no longer a challenge for SSJ Goku at max power. Therefore, for most of the fight, they were even, but at the end of the fight, Furiza's power level dropped to around 48,600,000

All accurate

These are nice too


[*]Tenshinhan should be at least at 1,840
[*]Kurirn should be at least at 1,520, and should get an increase after healing


[*] This seems okay

[*]You didn't have to put Vegeta's PL vs oozaru Gohan


[*]hmm... when Kuririn powered up against Gurudo, Vegeta sensed a weaker form of Zaabon(form 1) which was Kuririn, but when the scouter clicked, Gohan and Kuririn were said to be over 10,000. I'd put them between 11,000-15,000.

this is right


I would put Kuririn at 28,000, and Gohan between 29,000-33,000. And We both arent sure about Vegeta, so I'd put him between 100,000-150,000.


seems good

[*]I'd put form 3 freiza 60% at 2,120,000(a 2x increase from his form 2 60% level.
[*]I have Gohan's rage below form 3 Freiza, but Gohan had a upper hand at first, maybe he got tired a while later, and Freiza threw it at him
[*]Piccolo shouldn't get an increase, and if he did, it would be very minor.

[*]you don't have to put the Genki-dama level, or Goku when he just turned SSJ, but these are good(unless someone finds a way to counter them).

Okay, I'll fix them. And I already raised Kuririn's power level due to healing (the 1,700 level)

However, the fight with Gerudo took place AFTER getting the power-up from Saichorou (Guru), and you and I agreed that after getting that power up, Gohan and Kuririn were at 23,000 and 21,000, respectively.

I'll fix Vegeta, but you're beginning to change the levels that we BOTH agreed on...(Kuririn and Gohan)

During one of our AIM debates, I suggested Furiza 3, 60% with a power of 2,120,000, and that I should round it off to 2,100,000 (you told me to round off any power levels during this period to the nearest hundred-thousand), you said it was too low, and to change the PL to 2,200,000. Then we both originally agreed that Gohan was definately a TIDBIT stronger than Furiza, but since Gohan was running on rage, his body couldn't hold the rage anymore, and he weakened a bit (allowing Furiza to push back the blast). But you originally stated that Gohan was stronger than Furiza at the time

You shouldn't have his rage below Furiza 3, because we both agreed that it was a bit higher, and due to stress (and lack of maintaining rage), Gohan weakened and Furiza pushed back the blast

I was just trying to round him off. It would have made guessing later PLs a little easier (as far as numbers go). But I guess, you're right, I'll leave it at 1,600,000

I guess I didn't have to put a PL for the Genki Dama, but the PL for when Goku first went SSJ seemed essential, because it would explain why Furiza began to have the upper hand after he began using 100% power. THEN Goku powered up to max, and they were even.