Well, actually, she could use the attack when he places his hands in front of his face, or (if he does this) when he screams "TAIYOKEN!". And, yes, her scarf can reflect light, because when she uses it for attacking and stuff, she sends her Soul Power through it. In this case, the scarf will react like a mirror, and mirrors can reflect light.

Then Rose can just read their minds, tell gill what their going to do, and he'll just use his elemental abilities to surround everyone with ice before they can even use the attack, whic will reflect the light away from them, leaving them unharmed. Dhalsim can also do the same as Rose.

Or, if you want Rose to stay by herself, then Rose can use the Soul illusion to creat 3-5 of herself, and then use the Aura Soul Spark in just as many different directions.



Edited By Roll on Feb. 01 2003 at 23:28

Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.



Edited By Roll on Feb. 02 2003 at 19:54

roll your go na be banne becauce your putin planty of post in ere?

........................... no comment *just sits in his chair*

lol,mas,thats the point of this topis,to explain your *view's*
so,she can post as much as she likes,no 1 cares,back to this topic,roll,all street-fighter would loose to dbz,although rose is phychic,she still cant monouver properly,she can tell gill,but still get blasted by a kamehameha or other move.although street-fighter have realistic fighting styles,they could never beat goku and the gang.The only simple way i can think of
is is street-fighter charaters could fight in the air,thats all i can think of,cause i dont think alot,lol :D

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"]Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.[/quote]
Well, I have never seen an aura spark before, so I'll have to take your word for it.

And she can't read their minds and tell Gill what to do in less than one second, literally. And until Hibiki finishes his research, Gill can't do ANYTHING "instantly", unless you can find something written by the creator of Street Fighter and Gill that states otherwise.

And how can she counter three attacks faster than the speed of light? If you're thinking of what you said before, about her cloning herself 3-5 times, well, think about this:

She'd have to clone herself 3-5 times AND use the "Aura Spark Illusion" before all three of them can yell "Taiyoken" (which takes literally about one second to yell). I doubt that's possible. I SINCERELY doubt it.

And you said she can only do 3-5 clones? How about if Kuririn uses his "tri-form" and Tien uses his "twelve eyes"? Then she'd have to counter the Taiyokens of four Tiens, three Kuririns, and a Goku.

And please take note: Those two Taiyoken pictures occurred when Goku had a PL of about 16,000 and Kuririn had about 2,000. After the Buu Saga (or whenever this battle is taking place), their powerlevels are in the VERY high millions/low billions (except for Kuririn and Tien, they're about 100,000 each). They can pull it off even quicker then. Cell used a Taiyoken in the Cell Saga, and he pulled it off in mere nanoseconds slower than instantly.

[quote:post_uid0="Nantuko Joe"][quote:post_uid0="Roll"]Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

[QOUTE]And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.[/quote]
Well, I have never seen an aura spark before, so I'll have to take your word for it.[/quote]
yeah,i havent heard of it either

i vote for dragonball z becauce is better right :)

Hmm Rose has mind reading powers...hehe.

Oh yea Joe don't forget the quicker the attack is the less powerful than it could be.(Umm I realize you already knew that...I just stated that to feel special)

Hmm Tien is powerful from what I've seen him do in the Buu Saga.When he reflected that blast from majin buu with one of his own.

[quote:post_uid0="SBYRD5"]Hmm Rose has mind reading powers...hehe.

Oh yea Joe don't forget the quicker the attack is the less powerful than it could be.(Umm I realize you already knew that...I just stated that to feel special)

Hmm Tien is powerful from what I've seen him do in the Buu Saga.When he reflected that blast from majin buu with one of his own.[/quote]
Um...not necessarily. Kid Buu's Chikyuu Hokai no Ichigeki was charged up and launched in mere seconds, and it would have killed off Goku and Vegeta easily. Furiza's Daichiretsuzan is EXTREMELY fast, and is fired almost instantaneously, and can pierce extremely strong armor. Both Piccolo's Bakuriki Demon Blast and Rikkum's Eraser Cannon are extremely powerful, and can be launched in mere seconds.

Taiyoken, however (if you knew anything about DBZ) is not a direct-damage dealing attack. It's a blinding multiplication of sunlight. The only damage it causes is to the victim's retinas.

And although I know I'm somewhat hurting my own argument, I've got to say this: Tien isn't that powerful. His powerlevel never exceeds 100,000. When he deflected Buu's blast, you have to take this into account:

-Buu was using a standard energy dan.
-Tien used his Shin Kikouhou to block it, which is his most powerful attack.

is there no english words to those blasts,its kinda annoying :D

Joe I know of that move...and yes I do know of DBZ....and you know what the american version names sound better than your S.H.I.T.T.Y. original verision.

"Solar Flare".....Goku,Krillen,an Tien are the only Z-Fighters that performed this attack.(Cell also performed this...but he isn't exactly a good guy)*ahem* Tien was first seen using this Ki move on Master Roshi.Goku first used it in DBZ in the Sayian Saga(To my knowing) against the Transformed Sayian Prince.Krillen(Sounds better than stupid Kurrin or whatever...)
used it in a escape action to get away from Dodria...

Recoome controls the Eraser Cannon he stated that the power of it could reform a planet.

Frezia(Sounds better than Fruzia) used that attack on Piccolo,and Vegeta....I think he killed Krillen with something else.Oh and those Finger beams in the american version are called "Death Beams"......

Don't insult me Joe I'm just posting here I'm not insultng you.

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EDIT:It doesn't matter Joe hmm blocking that beam proves that his power level is greatly under achived. I mean don't you recall when Cell defeated a weakened Piccolo,and absorbed Andriod 17.Cell was evenly matched with Android 16 and he was stated to be the strongest Andriod of them all,and don't you dare say,"Andriod 17 is stronger than 16...it's just because he was weakened during that battle with Piccolo.Andriod 17 stated,"We andriods stay at the same level of power unless we cease function....you humans break so easily.".....Vegeta had to be super sayian to even come close to the power of Andriod 18....17 is supposed to be at about the same power as her.Now, Cell absorbs 17 he is all super powerful he freaking breaks Andriod 16's skull....seriousily. Tien uses his Tri-Beam(America still rules) at FULL POWER and is able to hold back Cell....

********FLASHBACK*********
Piccolo=Was a Super Namek because of his fusion with Kame at the time. He put everythin he had into a blast against Cell at his First Level of power,and simply.....only knocked him back into the bay.Cell powers up with the Souls he has stolen....and defeats Piccolo.....Piccolo is stronger than Tien explain this......

Ok admit this, The original Goku sounds more like a girl than the English version Goku.He sounds so stupid....

ummm......street figher vs dbz.....u crazy dawg dats just kill....
scratch up kill ........dis is just murda the whole degree, first, and second, to third degree murda.....

Joe you made the orignazation SFPOA.Perhaps it's time to start it back up again.

That makes sense Joe about Goku,but I've always been a fan of Tien,Piccolo,Vegeta.

I kinda like Krillen.

I don't like Gohan(I did like him as Teen Gohan SSJ2)
I don't like Goku(I did like him as SSJ3...his vioce deepens on both versions....and he looks awesome,and how he defeated Fruzia.)

Oh this is my last post here because I'm not exactly debating with you I'm spamming.

[quote:post_uid0="Nantuko Joe"][quote:post_uid0="Roll"]Awww... too bad. It is just that fast, Nantuko. Rose could counter with an "Aura Soul Spark Illusion" (My name for it ^_^) and still have time to find out Goku's favorite food is.(This is if he were exactly like in the dub).

And, actually, she could read their minds, tell Gill, and Gill could conjure (SP?) up some ice (which happens instantly. :p) around them. And, in case you didn't know, Ice DOES reflect light, and very well too. It's a fact.[/quote]
Well, I have never seen an aura spark before, so I'll have to take your word for it.

And she can't read their minds and tell Gill what to do in less than one second, literally. And until Hibiki finishes his research, Gill can't do ANYTHING "instantly", unless you can find something written by the creator of Street Fighter and Gill that states otherwise.

And how can she counter three attacks faster than the speed of light? If you're thinking of what you said before, about her cloning herself 3-5 times, well, think about this:

She'd have to clone herself 3-5 times AND use the "Aura Spark Illusion" before all three of them can yell "Taiyoken" (which takes literally about one second to yell). I doubt that's possible. I SINCERELY doubt it.

And you said she can only do 3-5 clones? How about if Kuririn uses his "tri-form" and Tien uses his "twelve eyes"? Then she'd have to counter the Taiyokens of four Tiens, three Kuririns, and a Goku.

And please take note: Those two Taiyoken pictures occurred when Goku had a PL of about 16,000 and Kuririn had about 2,000. After the Buu Saga (or whenever this battle is taking place), their powerlevels are in the VERY high millions/low billions (except for Kuririn and Tien, they're about 100,000 each). They can pull it off even quicker then. Cell used a Taiyoken in the Cell Saga, and he pulled it off in mere nanoseconds slower than instantly.[/quote]
ok... about Gill:
Go here, and read up on Gill. This is also from the handbook of "All about capcom", and some things from the guy who wrote this. It shows that he can create and uncreate Fire and Ice out of no where. In other words, no need for water! It just happens! ^-^;
http://www.orochi.com/sffaq/characters.html
...Ok, so it may not be instantly. But Rose, Dhalsim, and a few others can read their minds, and tell Gill to place ice all around them before everyone can do the Taiyoken, which will take less than enough time to do so. The reading of minds is fast with Dhalsim, along with Rose.

Oh, and keep in mind that the site is not the entire handbook thing. The official "All about Capcom" thing has way more info in it. The site just has major details.

About the Rose theory:

It takes her less than a second to do get the clones. In the game, after you execute the Soul Illusion, she automatically get's the "other" Rose's to help her fight, which enables her 3-6 hits per attack, depending on the strength of the attack and the strength of the Soul Illusion. When combined with Aura Soul Spark (Version 2, where she does a weak punch>Roundhouse>Fierce Punch> Soul Spark in which the Soul Spark does three hits) she does up to 17 hits on one character with the attack. When combined with the Aura Soul Spark (Version 3, the one with the reflection) It can reflect more than one Projectile, whether it is Strong (fire Hadouken, Gou Hadouken), a normal one (like a hadouken), or a "super Art" projectile (Messatsu Gou Hadou, Shinkuu Haduken, Kikoshou, Shinkuu Gaduken, Super Tiger Shot, etc.) right back at the opponent with the effect of a mirror (sort of) and she throws in a 3 hit Soul Spark, which, according to Tarkan's buddy in someplace earlier in this thread, numbs out the part of the body it hits. So 3 hits that make you numb, which in this case would spread through the body would make the person helpless, along with the reflection of the Taiyoken which is possible.

In general, there are only 9 directions to attack from (above, north, west, south, east, northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest), and Rose and her other 5 clones could probably handle helping the streetfighters escape the Taiyoken by surrounding them, and using the Aura Soul Spark just before they use Taiyoken.

And, by the time they could actually split themselves, Gill could freeze them or burn them up! ^-^;

Nantuko. Get this through your head. Taiyoken is the brightening of the light from the sun, correct? Then any large mirror can reflect the light away. It does not matter how strong the light is, it can still be reflected off of a mirror, or even a watch. So, Rose CAN reflect it. Her clones come out instantly, not in .8 seconds. They just... appear, and then get to work immediately. They don't come out one after another, or anything like that.

Or, if you don't believe it takes that amount of time for Rose to split up and stuff, then believe this. Her Soul Illusion takes at least the same amount of time to start and finish as it does for Krillin and Tien to split themselves. Reading their mind does not take an immense amount of time. Rose can do that while fighting, or doing something. And who said that she would need to know about the attack beforehand? She could use Soul Illusion immediately, and then she would be ready to do whatever, and while using the Soul Illusion, she can read everyones minds. After finishing the Soul Illusion and reading a mind (which should be finished at the same time), and then she could seperate the "clones" to use the Aura Soul Spark as a protection. Or, Rose could read their mind, tell Gill, who could form the ice. It doesn't matter what you think, Joe. Rose can read a mind in mere milliseconds, and then tell Gill to do what he needs to do. Besides, at the start of everything, Gill could just burn them up, or freeze them, leaving a select few.

She'd have to move FASTER THAN LIGHT to form a mirror of sorts. And in your above post, you said she can form clones in less than a second, and now you say she can do so instantly. So unless you can find me OFFICIAL CITATIONS that say she can do so instantly, she cannot. But either way, no character in street fighter, nor any character in DBz, can move faster than the speed of light, and cannot avoid a taiyoken

Once again, Rose cannot read a mind, relate that information to Gill, and have him form ice or fire or whatever in .8 seconds. Furthermore, where does it STATE by an OFFICIAL SOURCE that she can perform these abilities INSTANTLY, as in WITHOUT THE PASSAGE OF TIME? There are only two abilities that can be used INSTANTLY (without the passage of time), and they are Shunkan Idou and Kai Kai, and are possessed by members of the DBZ team. Unless you can find an OFFICIAL SOURCE that states that these abilities can be used IMMEDIATELY, or INSTANTLY, then they cannot be performed so. Shunkan Idou and Kai Kai are STATED to occur without the passage of time, so they cannot be disputed.

Ok then. I'll play it your way. Find me an official source that says that the Taiyoken cannot be blocked, and that it comes out in .8 seconds.



Edited By Roll on Feb. 09 2003 at 22:41

Sunglasses....

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"]Ok then. I'll play it your way. Find me an official source that says that the Taiyoken cannot be blocked, and that it comes out in .8 seconds.[/quote]
Let me see...Taiyoken is a brightening of sunlight (stated by Toriyama). If it is a brightening of sunlight, that means that the sun particles move at the speed of light (stated by the laws of physics). Therefore, in order to "block" the sunlight, one would have to move faster than the sunlight. in order to move faster than the sunlight, one would have to move faster than the speed of light.

And I may be wrong about .8 seconds. Just yell "Taiyoken" (pronounced Tay-oh-ken) as loud and fast as you can. That's how long the attack takes.

SBYRD5: Sunglasses cannot shield someone from light that is 10x or higher more intense than the sun.

When I said "Sunglasses" I ment perhaps not making that vunerable time of not seeing so long.

Also Joe you don't need to see to fight there is the other 4 senses....

[quote:post_uid0="SBYRD5"]When I said "Sunglasses" I ment perhaps not making that vunerable time of not seeing so long.

Also Joe you don't need to see to fight there is the other 4 senses....[/quote]
Sunglasses wouldn't make ANY difference. When the light is that bright, it wouldn't matter.

And puh-leez. you're saying that if I tied a scarf around your eyes, you could still fight me using the senses of touch, sound, smell, and taste? If you read the manga, once the enemies are blinded, they stand around blithering uselessly, clawing at their eyes. Even if they COULD fight further while blind, they would do so horribly. And none of the SF characters, to my knowledge, can sense ki, which gives the DBZ characters an advantage.

I'm not discussing the sensing of "power levels". I'm making a clear fact wait haven't you seen "Blood Sport". The guy was blinded by the powder and had to use his other senses to defeat his fowe.

Joe, what you just proved to me in that post is that most of the fighters in BZ arn't TRUE Martial Artist but very skilled fighters.

I recall RYU and KEN training with blind folds before,and they fought each other just as good if they had seeing eyes....

[quote:post_uid0="SBYRD5"]I'm not discussing the sensing of "power levels". I'm making a clear fact wait haven't you seen "Blood Sport". The guy was blinded by the powder and had to use his other senses to defeat his fowe.

Joe, what you just proved to me in that post is that most of the fighters in BZ arn't TRUE Martial Artist but very skilled fighters.

I recall RYU and KEN training with blind folds before,and they fought each other just as good if they had seeing eyes....[/quote]
Yeah, I have seen bloodsport. And he was pretty much stubling around, with his hands out in front of him. When he defeated his foe, he merely threw the grenade back at him (or something like that). And really, the only other sense you can use in a fight is hearing. If you use the sense of touch to feel your opponent, he's gonna know you're there. And you're definately not gonna use the senses of taste and smell (unless your opponent is a blob of dog ########).

And all of the characters in DBZ are indeed TRUE martial artists. Ever seen the first part? Called "Dragonball"? When Goku was a kid/young adult? That's all they used, martial arts. However, when they finally got to the DBZ area of it, they were so strong and so quick, martial arts wouldn't mean anything when you can pull off a few zanzokens and fly. When you have so much power and speed that you can destroy the world without even trying, and can fly around the earth eight times in 28 minutes, martial arts aren't really needed.

And Ryu and Ken are buttbuddies. They can practically know what each other's about to do before they do it, because they know each other so well. It's like putting Goku and Vegeta with blindfolds against each other: they know each other well enough to know what they're about to do. Blindfold Ryu and make him face Akuma, or someone else, and he'd have a much harder time.

And besides, DBZ characters have the ability to sense ki, and one can fight fairly easily while blind and deaf if they can sense their opponent's ki.

Yea, that is all true,but you don't have to smell like garbage to be smelled.Blood has a smell to it....so does sweat.I suppose Ryu and Ken being butt buddies may be true...*ahem*. I was using them as an example...I suppose it wasn't the best one....

Actually, Joe you just made me think.When the DBZ characters where weaker and used basic martial arts...they didn't sense Ki then correct. They used there other senses....just how the SF fighters would.

Now you said that the DBZ fighters would just do a Solar Flare...then a Distructo Disc and it would be over....For you to make such a statment the DBZ fighters must plan an attack like that.As you said before with all the counter comments against this combination you made....they wouldn't know what the other party has planned for them in battle.....so basicly the DBZ fighters would never start a battle that way....that is truely invalid....they spare with there enemies and feel out there strenghts...

(Besides combinations like that are only used when fighting enemies that are stronger than themselves)

------------------------------------------------------------

Joe I find this topic unfair...you said that exploiting Goku's weakness for food is invalid.Just like using Vegeta's Pride against himself......actually with those things to exploit this debate would actually carve more towards SF....

its really hard to compare sf to dbz when they are almost completely different!! ryu has only his darkside but dat goku guy had like 4/5 transformations ssj1/2/3/4...and ryu only has his fists,kicks and hadouken to fight..where as goku can do a whole load of $hit more...

[quote:post_uid0="DA_VIPA"]its really hard to compare sf to dbz when they are almost completely different!! ryu has only his darkside but dat goku guy had like 4/5 transformations ssj1/2/3/4...and ryu only has his fists,kicks and hadouken to fight..where as goku can do a whole load of $hit more...[/quote]
dbz has to much power to compare to sf dbz will rule in the end. :angry:

[quote:post_uid0="SBYRD5"]Yea, that is all true,but you don't have to smell like garbage to be smelled.Blood has a smell to it....so does sweat.I suppose Ryu and Ken being butt buddies may be true...*ahem*. I was using them as an example...I suppose it wasn't the best one....

Actually, Joe you just made me think.When the DBZ characters where weaker and used basic martial arts...they didn't sense Ki then correct. They used there other senses....just how the SF fighters would.

Now you said that the DBZ fighters would just do a Solar Flare...then a Distructo Disc and it would be over....For you to make such a statment the DBZ fighters must plan an attack like that.As you said before with all the counter comments against this combination you made....they wouldn't know what the other party has planned for them in battle.....so basicly the DBZ fighters would never start a battle that way....that is truely invalid....they spare with there enemies and feel out there strenghts...

(Besides combinations like that are only used when fighting enemies that are stronger than themselves)

------------------------------------------------------------

Joe I find this topic unfair...you said that exploiting Goku's weakness for food is invalid.Just like using Vegeta's Pride against himself......actually with those things to exploit this debate would actually carve more towards SF....[/quote]
No, in DB, they still used their ability to sense the opponent's ki, because when they're pulling off Zanzokens (after-images) and such, they can't exactly see nor hear where the opponent is going to be next. So no, you're not correct.

If they start a battle off with a Taiyoken, the opposition would be blinded for a few seconds, and knowing Vegeta, he'd just powerup a massive attack just to kill them (IE: Bikubang or Final Flash). Or, Kuririn can hit the Taiyoken, and then use a Kienzan, and that would be HIS plan, totally independent from any other plan they would have. Same thing would go if Tien uses a Shinshin no Ken to create clones, each uses a Taiyoken, and then have each clone use a Shin Kikouhou.

And I never said exploiting Goku's weakness for food would be invalid. Hibiki did. Earlier on, Hibiki said that no character personalities are valid in this debate, so Gotenks wouldn't be so cocky, Goku wouldn't be so cautious and forgiving, etc. Hibiki did this, well, because I said that in a NORMAL fight, Kid Buu wouldn't be teaming with Goku, and Akuma wouldn't be teaming with Ryu (etc, you get the idea) so Hibiki rid us of character personalities.

CauSE gOkU cAnZ detrsoZ dA uNIverz

[quote:post_uid0="TarkanX"]Post why you think each would win(and don't say dumb things like, "because gOkU cAnZ detrsoZ dA uNIverz"), back up your evidence also.[/quote]
Did you not see that, or are you really that stupid? Or maybe, you're just a noob :biggrin: I really think it was the last one. I'm justa waitin for the perfect time to enter the debate.. (and trying to read the whole damn thing) :biggrin:



Edited By Scorponok on Feb. 17 2003 at 19:11

It was just a joke

Well Dan made this debate easily one sided then....

Anyone could see without those weaknesses to explore...DBZ would own Street Fighter hands down.