Where...?


Yeah Dr Gero rpedicted that their power would be so weaker than when he met them... Dr. Gero only means the stronger ones, and he didn't say that quote in that form in the manga...

Lets say Krillin was at 50,000 when Trunks arrived... Krillin trains 3 years, no special training, just any regular human training(except better I guess), you honestly think Krillin owuld get a multiplier of 20 in 3 years doing no special training, and just regular training?!!? Same goes for Yamucha and Tenshinhan...


Okay yeah that is true.... so he only trained for like 3 years, then stopped training for 4 years in those 7 years... but it wasn't any special training...

Tenshinhan did the Shin Kikohou on Buu, and just pushed Buu back not damaging him one bit, the other stuff is not true...

i had enough of all you saying im wrong on anything i say !

so ill just say this...

STOP SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT PL CAUSE NO ONE HERE IS IN THE MIND OF AKIRA TORIYAMA AND NO ONE WILL EVER DO !

PL is nothing more than a meter who shouldn't have been used in the first place !

i love krillin and i will always consider him able to kill cell if he would have really wanted it !
same goes for mr satan !

since trunks beat freeza there is no PL given anywhere else so you cant say how much SSJ or Kaioken give's in there PL !

i dont care if goku was at 3000000000000000 when he fought ubuu, it was a nice fight and that's all that count ok ! now stop saying anything about PL cause its nothing more than a raison to flame people !

Okay that's true... I guess....

I missed a lot of discussing, I see.

THIS IS NOT FLAMING. I just want a piece of the debate that I missed.

Power levels were made just as a neat way of showing how Freeza's henchmen could detect fighters, and to discover the neat reactions they could have when a fighter raises their power and revealing their true natures to the meters. Akira Toriyama ditched the power levels after the Freeza saga because (for one) all the people who used them were dead. The other reason is that he felt the levels were too limiting. I personally don't see the reason for debating the power levels so fiercely.

Now, a few points I want to make clear:

1. Chi could be put into English as describing it as internal spiritual energy. Ki is an outward manifestation of Chi. The ability to use ki is read as battle power (Japanese) or power level (English). Those who are trained in being able to use their own ki PROPERLY have higher power levels.

2. All beings are able to use ki in a limited fashion. If they weren't then there would be nothing for power level readers, like scouters, to pick up. This is also why the Dragon Balls can be picked up on the scouters; because the Dragon Balls have their own ki. Now, those who are trained to be able to use their ki properly have a higher ki output, causing a higher reading.

3. Physical strength can only go so far. Muscles can only get so strong, and creatures can only go so fast on their own. This is where ki comes into play in fighting. Those who know how to apply ki in fighting can use ki to boost their attributes. When people power up they raise how much they are using their ki to enhance their own abilities.

4. Super Saiya-jin transformations result in an exponential increase in ki, but also results in a change in physical attributes. The transformation allows for an unreal amount of ki enhancement, but at the same time has base fraudelent power increases, as is shown in the transformation to Super Saiya-jin Dai 3 Dankain (or Ultimate Super Saiyan 3 or Ascended Saiyan when Mirai Trunks fought Perfect Cell). The increase in fraudelent muscular power resulted in being less aerodynamic, and making it harder to have total freedom of motion.

5. WHY CHARACTERS IN DRAGONBALL DON'T MOVE AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Just want to clear this up with a real explanation here. The human eye can only perceive single images at 60 frames per second; 60 unique images per second. Anything beyond that is, "quicker than the eye." So in essence, to move faster than the human eye you need only move so fast that you are in and out of a human's sight range in under 1/60 of a second. 'Course, Goku's Shunkan Idou technique has a speed of infinity if you do the math, but that doesn't count because that is teleportation.

6. Saiya-jins have a natural talent for being able to train and raise their ki. This is why they become stronger so much faster than other races. Explain how Goku as a kid without seriously applying himself (before Buluma found him) was stronger than Kullilin, who was a serious fighter back then.

7. The fact that people lose ki as they don't train isn't entirely true. Muten Roshi is over 300 years old throughout Dragonball and DBZ, and his power throughout the entire thing remains at 139. What does he do all day? Look through hentai magazines. That doesn't seem like ki training to me.

8. When people train their ki they fight and do excercises while raising their own attributes with ki. In a sense this increases their capacity, much like how people get bigger muscles when they lift weights all the time.

SUPPOSITIONS BEGIN HERE

9. My guess on Mr. Sataan's power level is about 20. There is no way that he could pull off Zanzouken (which Goku could do in his first Tenkaichi Budokai). In addition, he could not have beaten the giant human fighters that showed up at the tournaments and lost in the elimination rounds in Dragonball.

10. Kullilin's power level would never have come close to 1,000,000. Never. If he was at 24,000 while fighting Freeza on Namek, then he could've been at 100,000 TOPS for the Tenkaichi Budokai during the Buu Saga. As for Yamucha, I find it easier to believe him being at around 50,000 during that tournament, because he basically quit training totally. As for Tenshinhan I find it realistic for him to be around 250,000 during the Buu Saga.

Yep...

Yep

yep

yep

yep

Yeah, but SSJ Gotenks moved at the speed of light...(but just to make sure I'll check the manga again)

yep

yep, but his PL wasn't at 139 when he first trained Goku, Kamesennin got stronger from the training when he taught Goku and Krillin, and after he beat Goku in the Bodoukai, he said he was going to do some more serious training...


I think Mr. Satan is a bit less than 20, he doesnt show much strength like you said except for winning the bodoukai's... Now the only real strength we see him do is the meter thing which he gets 137(and no his PL isn't 137, that punching meter and PL's are WAY different... but we can compare them...

an average human's PL is 5(the farmer is an average human, but works hard on his farm). Now the fighters who entered the bodoukai the day Goku came to earth for one day were average humans as well, but trained in some kind of martial arts. The average was about 90. Let's say the people who entered the bodoukai were at the PL of 7, since Mr. Satan got about 50% higher than the particapants in the bodoukai, I assume he's PL is about 11 or 12.

Yep

ENOUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm out of here !
since the manga is god, i cant say anything !

TarkanX: do anyone has telled you that you are a pain in the ass sometime ?

krillin not strong and will not be ! let me laugh !
Mr. satan did show up more strenght in the TV show in the buu saga... but noooo, seems like the TV show (made by akira toriyama) is nothing more than funny joke thing compared to the manga so fine keep that in mind TarkanX if you want to !

i'll always think different than you cause i think were saying the same thing here except that people think saiyens are the strongest fighters and they won't even believe a single fighter like krillin or even mr. satana cannot do anything agaist a monster !

guess what !!!!!

krillin did saved the other zfighter a lot of time even when he wasn't as strong as the monster and even the others have made the same !

now if any mod can close that thread cause it has been pointless for 10 pages now !

Yep, but they don't say it to my face....

Yep....

*bump for the last time* oy....

im lost b/c of everyone having a different power level for each character in dbz. im confuzed :dontgetit:

The TV show was approved by Akira Toriyama and made by TOEI Animation, so Akira Toriyama didn't make it.