None ofus have to read anything. Books are written to be read in the future either for entertainment, puzzlement, or for reference and (scarcely)warnings. This rule has never ever changed, no matter how much time passed. It could be any one of those things.

Since i'm a Muslim its against my religion to beleive this , not that i even thought about beleiving in it annyway. I beleive in heaven and hell but hell on earth? Its a load of BS. I mean like hell is meant to be ur worst nightmare with things that are unimaginabley horrifying in it. The earths core is just a hot place, and chrisitanity doesnt say hell is on earth does it? Cos i know Islam doesn't.



Edited By alamgir on Mar. 19 2004 at 19:46

You know, it would be a little funny if "Hell" was just a sweatshop behind some factory building. *wonders*

If that was the case, imagine how heaven would be like...

I avoid this types of mostly because im a christian and it is impossible to convince someone if they dont want to listen or just refuse to see.. all the christians in here i would advice u to the read the bible in these subjects.. dont believe in the bible well too bad.. check this out .. 1 Timothy 6: 20,21 20 "O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge-- 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen."

lol i bet im going to get dished for this..oh well
ps. if i knew how to make "knowledge" bold i would..=/
pss. if someone asks about me not speaking what i think and putting a verse of the bible as my answer..God knows better then me..

No one should knock you at all for not speaking what you think. It's actually wise, at this point, to not say it anymore; which goes for everyone including me. But I'm not wise. ^.^
However, 21 tells that not all prophets are telling the truth, which makes it even more difficult for me to believe that anyone could be telling the truth.
However, I believe that everyone has their own truth, no matter what it is. The universe is yours and always has been yours to control. It's just that you can't take control of other peoples universe's. If you try to, you will always fail; and then the person will avoid trying to be around you. If you dream something it real, then perhaps it is -- for you. But unless you dream that something is not real, then there is a possibility that it could be true -- for you. Dream hold the keys to a persons heart, mind, and soul.

No, without the high level of fission and chemical reactions in the sun, we wouldn't have light. And can you PROVE that souls exist? I don't believe we have souls at all...You have NO PROOF that god and the devil exists. You have BELIEFS, but NOT PROOF.

Faith is not proof though. An unexplained miracle is not proof. Just because there's an unexplained medical miracle does not prove that god exists. I could easily say "well the boy was cured of cancer not because of your christian god, but because of Brighid, the Celtic goddess of healing. I have faith that the Celtic gods exist, and your one god does not." And you know what? You can't say shiat, because you can't prove nor disprove my claims.

Besides, a boy being cured of cancer without knowledge of how is not a miracle. A miracle would be a man who was born deaf and blind gaining the ability to see and hear after 90 years. A miracle would be a woman without the ability to walk being able to stand up from her wheelchair and walk again. Being cured of an illness and no one knows why...that's not a miracle.

I dislocated my kneecap last month, and am recovering faster than my physical therapist has ever seen anyone recover from a dislocated kneecap. Does that mean that it's a miracle of god, that my ligaments are pulling themselves together faster than normal?

On the contrary. You have no idea of what's going on, because you're blinded by your "faith." You said that faith is hearing what a person says and then believing that it's true without needing proof. Basically, that translates into this:

"Faith is believing in something because you're told to, and don't have the ability to think for yourself."

What makes your religion and your god so much more special than the beliefs and gods of all the other religions of the world? For you to say that your god exists and everyone else is wrong is the most pompous, a-hole-ish thing that you could possibly say.

I mean, look at what alamgir said. He's muslim, and you're basically saying that he's wrong and you're right. That his beliefs are inaccurate and your beliefs are superior to his. You have no place to say that, none whatsoever.


I have a statement I'd like to make that I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO.

In the Bible, it is stated that the earth is the center of all things, and that the sun revolves around the earth, and that all the stars in the sky are merely lights in the "heavens." The bible claims that god created the earth first, then created the sun as "a light in the sky."

Well guess what. Science has proven that the earth did not come before the sun. Science has proven that the sun is billions of years older than the earth. For that matter, science has also proven that the earth revolves around the sun....contrary to the bible's claims. Science has also proven that the stars in the sky are not merely "many lights in the heavens," but are other suns in other solar systems.

So now that science has basically proven the biblical theory of creation to be false, as the theory of creation claims that god made the earth the center of the universe, what do you have to say for yourself?

Joe, I'm curious now. What do you think of my beliefs? I'd like to know, if you would say. ^-^

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"]Joe, I'm curious now. What do you think of my beliefs? I'd like to know, if you would say. ^-^[/quote]
It makes sense....to an extent. Let's pretend that just for this example, I believe in the Shinto religion. I really don't, but let's just say that I do, just for the example.

So what you are saying is that in vx unicom's universe, his god, heaven and hell exist, and when he dies, he will go to either his heaven or his hell, depending on his god's beliefs. At the same time, in my universe, there is no heaven, hell or god, and when I die, my spirit becomes reincarnated into a different life form.

That makes sense, but there is a problem with it. You see, according to vx unicom's universe, anyone who doesn't believe in god will go to hell. Now naturally, that would mean that in his universe, I will go to his hell after I die. However, in MY universe, my body will decay, and my chi will be reincarnated in the form of a different animal or person. By the same respect, in my universe, when vx unicom dies, his body will decay and chi reincarnated, but in his universe he will go to heaven.

The problem is that my energy cannot be in both his hell and in the body of another animal or human. Therefore, a contradiction.

That would be the error in your belief. The fact that there has to be one or the other, and not everything at once. Granted, it's nice that your beliefs would try to find a place for everyone and their own beliefs, but when all is said and done, I don't think it would work out that way. For all I know, I could be wrong and there could be a god, and I could go to hell. Or, for all vx unicom knows, there is no heaven or hell or god, and when he dies, he dies, and that's the end of it. Or, for all either ofus know, we could both be wrong, and end up going down to the underworld to spend all eternity with Ereshkigal and Nergal, the gods of the Mesopotamian underworld. Or we could be reincarnated into the bodies of a butterfly or koala bear.

Whichever the case, all I know is that science offers PROOF, and some of this proof has proven that parts of the bible are wrong. The fact that people will disregard this and say that science is wrong, even though science is right, is ridiculous.

Yes.. but from my point of view, everyone has their own universe, their own dimension, their own point of view. Since no one has the same thoughts, views, or opinions, they must have different dimensions and a different universe to hold it all in. Which makes all of that possible... or so I think. Either way, I like to hold fast to that rather than believe everything can and must be proven or that everyone must just believe what they are told.

ENOUGH!!! WE HAVE MADE A TOPIC LIKE THIS MANY TIMES, AND MANY TIMES IT HAS BEEN LOCKED. ANYTIME YOU MAKE A TOPIC LIKE THIS THERE IS BOUND TO BE RUKUS AND DISBELIEVERS. SINCE THERE ARE MANY OTHER RELIGIONS AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING. THERE IS NO POINT IN CONTINUING IN THIS TOPIC. ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE IS BOUND TO GET MAD SOONER OR LATER. WHY DON'T WE JUST STOP IT BEFORE IT HAPPENS AND KEEP THE PEACE. PEACE IS GOOD AND THIS FORUM AND RELIGON DOES NOT MIX.

DON'T TELL TO COME BACK IN HERE IF I DON'T WANT TO READ IT BECAUSE I WILL KEEP COMING BACK UNTIL IT IS CLOSED.

I'M SUPRISED THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU ROLL HAVE NOT TOLD SOMEONE TO CLOSE THIS TOPIC.

LET'S JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE.

AND REMEMBER HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS IT SELF...

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"]Yes.. but from my point of view, everyone has their own universe, their own dimension, their own point of view. Since no one has the same thoughts, views, or opinions, they must have different dimensions and a different universe to hold it all in. Which makes all of that possible... or so I think. Either way, I like to hold fast to that rather than believe everything can and must be proven or that everyone must just believe what they are told.[/quote]
So you're saying that everyone's "soul," "god," or whatnot exists in everyone else's universe/dimension? So after I die, I'll be not only in vx unicom's idea of hell, but in my own idea of the afterlife, in the Shinto idea of reincarnation, the Greek underworld, Slavic underworld, Oceanic underworld....all of them at the same time? Just that it's in different dimensions? Hmmm....that sounds confusing. It does make sense, but it's just confusing, cuz in effect you're saying that my soul exists in the personal universes/dimensions of 6 billion people or so.

Why though? If it bothers you, then simply don't read it. If you don't read it, then it can't bother you, and then you can't be upset with everyone disagreeing.

You just answered your own question about why we keep making the same topic when it's been done before.

I sincerely doubt that the topic is going to be closed, because it's a viable topic. There is actual debate material here, and to close it just because you don't like seeing people argue would be unfair. That would be like the people who wanted to close the DBZvsSF topic long ago, just cuz they didn't like reading about us arguing.

[quote:post_uid0="Hollis"]yes, that's why i, beleive in God, pray every night, morning, try to go to church every sunday, and obey the Lord, and his Ten Commandments. so when Jesus Christ comes i know that i won't be trapped in the gates of hell..[/quote]
yeah i pray every night i admit i dont pray every morning but i pray every night and im going to start praying every morning and night

I think dat when u die ur dead and it just like not being there any more like b4 u were born u know nothing u dont see nothing hear nothing there no hell or heaven just nothing u cant even think u dont know wats going on and then 1 day u wake up wit a hang over :)

The last bit was a joke =\

Joe said:
It doesn't bother me. I just would rather stop a conflict before it happens. There is no way to prove Hell is real or not real. Unless you died and remember everything AND get everyone else to believe you.

Joe said:
This would be nothing like the DBZvsSF. This topic is about somebody's belief in matters which matter to them most. This religion thing might be what one person life revolves around. This topic can actually damage someone's believe in something. This topic is real life unlike the DBZvsSF topic.

Elena said:
I said what I said about history repeating itself because this topic will always cause anger to others and become closed of flaming. No matter what you try to do. Hey, the person could accidently click on the topic and read and be offended. So to defend his/her belief he/she might post something inappriate or loose their temper.
It is silly that people keep making topic's like this when we all know that sooner or later people WILL flood. No matter how mature you are. The other posters may not be.

Oh, I've been in like 2 religous topics...they both ended by being locked because of immaturity. There was the one started by Asshole. There was that other one by...I can't remember who it was started by, but it ended with somebody getting angry and getting closed by the topic starter.

And again I say: REMEMBER HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS IT SELF...
So why don't we use the knowledge we have and stop it before it happens....

brought back as a Panda lol thats a funny thought. Another thing thats funny is that people say that the ever word in the Bible is true. Now this book is pretty old and there are tons of diffrent versions of it.

Here is a example as I said before. You have a classroom of 30 students u whisper in the first students ear like a phrase or sentence. Then make them whisper it in the ear of the other student. Pass it all the way down till it finally reach the 30th student. Have them stand up and say it out loud, its like a 99.9% it would not be the excat word to word what u said to start it out. People hear diffrent and talk diffrent. If you have 5 people to witness a murder put them in a room by them selves and ask them to explain what happen at the scene. Thier story would not be the EXACT same story. get the point?



Edited By MasterX05 on Mar. 19 2004 at 20:12

[quote:post_uid0="Shauku"]So you're saying that everyone's "soul," "god," or whatnot exists in everyone else's universe/dimension? So after I die, I'll be not only in vx unicom's idea of hell, but in my own idea of the afterlife, in the Shinto idea of reincarnation, the Greek underworld, Slavic underworld, Oceanic underworld....all of them at the same time? Just that it's in different dimensions? Hmmm....that sounds confusing. It does make sense, but it's just confusing, cuz in effect you're saying that my soul exists in the personal universes/dimensions of 6 billion people or so.[/quote]
Well, yes. But only if those 6 billion people think you exist. In order to exist to other people, you have to be thought of, or at least seen and remembered (which takes thought). So, if no one thinks about you, then they don't think you exist, and therefore, you're not in their universe anymore. However, you're still existant in your own universe. Get it? ^-^ I know it's confusing at first... but in this belief, at least there is a safe haven for all people, and not just a person.


And Elena, the reason why I have not said to close this topic, is that we do need to discuss this. If no one will discuss it in the world, just because they are afraid of being yelled at or because they fear a battle or argument, then we'll be at war for all eternity with anyone and everyone. While I absolutely condone fighting and arguing, we have to help people realize that it's not only one person with right answers; and that there is always more than one right answer (somehow, and some way). If we cannot do that, for anyone, then this world is surely doomed and it's final years will be at hand.



Edited By Roll on Mar. 18 2004 at 21:35

No matter what happens, you exist in someones mind if they think of you and think you exist. If they believe that you will go to hell, then in their universe, you will. But only in their universe. What happens to you in your universe is only in your own universe. It's.. like being in a house of mirrors, where each mirror is actually a persons view of you, therefore, who you are to them in their universe. You're always you, but the mirrors will change your angle, look, etc.

[quote:post_uid0="Evil-Blanka"]im going to start praying every morning and night[/quote]
you think thats gonna keep you out of hell?


"For it is not by works of rightousness which we have done, but according to his mercey He has saved us."



good works isnt gonna save you



Edited By kester- on Mar. 20 2004 at 12:36

[quote:post_uid0="Shauku"]Hmmm.....that actually does make sense.

So John Smith in Texas actually exists, as in, in the whole mix of things, but since I don't know him and he doesn't know me, he's not part of my own universe....i get it.

What about people with differing beliefs that know each other? Say...me and my christian friend. My soul in his universe would go to his hell, but in the Shinto universe, my soul might be reincarnated into a bear. Does that mean that everone has as many "souls/spirits/chi" as people that know they exist?[/quote]
Joe where do u get this Shinto universe??! There is no such thing, lol and YES everyone has a soul, a soul is like the air u breath exmaple: Ifur alive u breath, once ur dead u stop breathing. A soul is ur the source ofur very existance without it ur dead.......just like the air u breath once u stop ur dead. By the way Joe some people have experienced life after death and believe me they as well said there is a HELL, saying he was given a chance to dedicate his life to God, he was sorrounded by darkness. There is no such thing as many universes, The universe is one, Joe ur so blinded.....trust me!! If there was no HELL then there wouldn't be darkness and if HEAVEN didn't exist there would'nt be light.......there thats the most simple example i could think of. The day light and the night is also a sign that there is HEAVEN and HELL. ???



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 20 2004 at 07:29

[quote:post_uid0="vx_unicom"][/quote]
Dude, you're a frigging idiot. Shinto was a semiancient Japanese belief that when you die, your chi is reincarnated into many different forms, depending on the good and bad deeds you did in your previous lives. If you lead good lives, then you will eventually be reincarnated into the diety level of the spirits.

You have no proof of the existence of a soul. A soul is not like the air you breathe....you breathe when you're alive because your body needs oxygen, and therefore to get oxygen, your lungs expand and air is drawn in through your esophagus and nasal cavities. You're dead when you stop breathing becasue since your dead, your various organs stop working, you stop taking in oxygen, and you therefore cannot live. It's not because of a "soul." You BELIEVE in the existence of a soul, but it's not fact, because it cannot be proven. It's merely your blind faith talking.

Some people also claim to have experienced reincarnation....some people also claim to have experienced religious Buddhist nirvana....some people also claim to have experienced Allah. What makes the people who claim to have experienced hell any different from anyone else?

I am not blinded. YOU are the one that is blinded, blinded by your own faith. You're so caught up in this religious nonsense that you lack the ability to think for yourself.

You cannot prove that there is only one universe, you cannot prove that Roll's beliefs are not accurate. You can only speculate, going by what your 2000 year old book claims.

Why should i trust some 13-year-old in matters of which I have more knowledge of than you, especially when I address the debate presented to me whereas you ignore it?

Umm....no....

First off, even according to your bible, God created darkness and god created light, and separated the two.

Secondly, you're wrong. Darkness and light are not regulated by hell and heaven. You're a retard. Darkness is regulated by the earth's spin around the sun, as is light. You say that darkness exists only because of hell. Darkness exists because our section of the planet is not facing the sun, you dolt. Not because of some religious voodoo of yours.

Um no it's not. The day and the night are merely signs that the earth is still spinning around in the vastness of the universe, orbiting the gigantic ball of gas that is our sun.

Joe i'm not saying everything involving science is bad....JOE u know nothing about knowledge. YOUR so ignorant and young to understand what i'm talking about. By saying there is no HELL ur simply saying that there is no good or evil. Thats why God is everything that is good and the Devil is everything bad. if you say God and the Devil don't exist then ur saying that our heart is a like a big empty space without the desire to do good and evil. Why do people hate?? because of the devil!!! and why do u think we have the ability to love and care??? Simply because God exist. There is no such thing as being reincarnated. If God didn't exist, we wouldn't Love, care, have compassion,extra. By tossing insults ur just showing a sign of ignorance towards the fact that what i'm saying actually makes sense. All u want is prove........LOL, the very prove u seek is around u!!!. :)



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 20 2004 at 12:49

Ok, I've had enough of this shiat. YOU KNOW NOTHING. You THINK you know, but you don't. You have no proof to back your claims, and whenever I try to raise a point, you just say I have no knowledge of what I'm talking about.

This is what I hate about you frigging christian religious zealots. Whenevever you find someone that doesn't follow your religion, they're obviously "ignorant," and don't know what they're talking about.

I have a question for you, vx unicom. What makes your religion so much more special than all the other religions?

No, our hearts are organs of muscle fibers that are used to pump blood throughout our bodies.

Who are you to decide what is "good" and what is "evil?" Morals are all relative to each person, there is no universal definition of "good" and "evil."

No....people hate because it's an emotion triggered by the neurons in your brain. If a man kills your brother, you hate them. Not because of the devil, but because it's a human emotion, you twit.

No, because they're biochemical reactions in the brain designed to make sure our genes get passed on. Not becuase god exists.

And the people that believe in reincarnation can say there's no such thing as heaven or hell or god.

This is what i'm talking about. You're being such a pompous @ss that you're saying "anyone who doesn't believe in christianity is wrong."

Like I said before....what makes your christian religion more special than any other religion?

When did I toss an insult? You were the one who said I was ignorant becuase I don't believe in your religion.

Once again, I ask you....what makes your religion so special? Why do you think that your religion is more accurate than Shinto, or Buddhism, or Conflipianism, or Judaism, or Islam, or Muslim, or Greek, or Roman, or Oceanic, or Celtic, or Norse, or Mesopotamian, or Egyptian religions?

Why can't you christians ever get through your skull that there are other beliefs out there that are different than yours?

You claim that faith is proof. I claim that faith is blinding you. You claim there is a devil, and say that hate proves that the devil is real, and that love and caring prove that god exists. I state that hate, love and caring are all biochemical reactions in the brain. I bring TRUTH, you bring FAITH.

... :withstupid:

And you said anger would not arise...hmm...after anger comes name calling. Which leads to more name calling. Which leads to locking and maybe someone getting banned.

And I would like to say that i'm a 'friggin christian' which you hate so much. I think you should say most or some instead of all because I surely was not ignorant to any of your posts. I would also like to add that you are becoming ignorant to a teenager....and you are a 20 year-old.



Edited By Elena on Mar. 20 2004 at 13:32

First of all, the word you're seeking to use is "proof". ^-^
Second of all, the very proof that is all around us also proves everything I believe in, everything Joe believes in, everything the buddhists believe in, and everything everyone believes in. The earth cannot become your proof because you want it to be. The earth is not a possession, or an object you can keep to yourself. Neither, in fact, is anything breathing and living on this earth; or anything at all for that matter. Everything is shared by everything, even if it's by smell, sight, or some other sense I will not list. Do not try to use the earth as your proof again.

However true this may be to you, it may be very different to someone else. As Joe said before, morals are relative to each person. A Devil to some other person may actually be a sweetheart, rather than an evil "I'm gonna kill you" type of being with a demented face. At the same time, God could be feared as the person who IS scary and posssibly evilish. It's all from a persons perspective of the world around them. (Their universe. ^.^)

The funny thing is, that's exactly what it is. When a heart wrenches, it's something that has to do with bodily functions. I'm sure Joe understands. Also, technically, the heart is a big empty space. It's just that it pumps blood throughout the body. Emotions do not happen only in specific parts of the body. You may feel scared, and you'll get an empty feeling in your throat. You'll feel happy, your hand will tingle. It's different for everything. (Thus, it's part of their universe.)

And is it just me, or is everything VX is saying just going in an oval-like motion?

Edit:
Elena, you need to understand. No matter what you will do, someone will get offended. If we stopped talking about it because of that, what would happen to the world? And it's wrong for people to try to justify that their beliefs are more sound than any others with proof that has no real meaning. Therefore, I think it's a good idea to continue this topic; if not for ourselves, then for the defence of the other beliefs. I commend you for not doing what Joe accuses Christians of doing. You are indeed special, and thoughtful.



Edited By Roll on Mar. 19 2004 at 14:36

Ok, Roll. I will stop with this. I was getting tired of trying to stop it anyways.

Anyways, I was wondering if you could be like a christian/buddist because I think some people do come reincarnated while others go to a type hell worst then the hell than the hell we are living on now.

Anything is possible, as long as you want it to be possible. It's really your choice in the matter. ^-^

Well the way I see it ppl do need a religion it gives ppl hope something to believe in. So that when they are in a bad situation they have someone to look up to and pray to get out of it. People use it like a cructh. But for me nah I have no need to say God give me strength just to do something. My teacher was telling us about the strongest man in the world who came to her Trojan for Christ meeting and showing his str ( him only being 140pounds) And he says its god that give him this power. She actually belive it just because the guy weighs 140 that he ripped a phonebook in half, and was holding 4 motorcyles at the end of these ropes why they were trying to get away.

And this movie passion they say the guy playing Jesus got struck by lighting. And ppl believe that it is a sign. Nope not me I dont have to pray to some god just to get me out of a tough situation or help me do something. lol I cant even remember the last time I steped on holy grounds, and if I did I probly freeze up and turn to stone. :biggrin:

[quote:post_uid0="Elena"]And I would like to say that i'm a 'friggin christian' which you hate so much. I think you should say most or some instead of all because I surely was not ignorant to any of your posts. I would also like to add that you are becoming ignorant to a teenager....and you are a 20 year-old.[/quote]
I was not referring to ALL christians, as I believe you may have interpreted. I was referring to the pig-headed zealots like vx unicom, who try to convert anyone who's not christian, and insist that anyone who does not agree with their beliefs are "too ignorant to see the truth." People like that fail to realize that the people they persecute are not the ones "blind to truth," but they themselves are blinded by their own faith, unable to think or speak for themselves.

I apoligize if I offended you by my generalization, but when some rambling 13 year old like him ignores my arguments to say that i'm "too ignorant and young to see the truth," when he has no evidence to back his claims, I tend to get a little heated. If he were smart enough and open enough to step back and forget about his "you are wrong, and I am right" attitude, I may not have lost my head.

But you must see what I mean. He's sitting there, claiming that his religion is the only true religion and flat-out stating that all other religions are wrong, when he not only has no proof to back his outlandish claims, but definately has no place to state that his beliefs are superior to all others, and that anyone who doesn't agree is obviously "ignorant."

[quote:post_uid0="Shauku"][quote:post_uid0="Elena"]And I would like to say that i'm a 'friggin christian' which you hate so much. I think you should say most or some instead of all because I surely was not ignorant to any of your posts. I would also like to add that you are becoming ignorant to a teenager....and you are a 20 year-old.[/quote]
I was not referring to ALL christians, as I believe you may have interpreted. I was referring to the pig-headed zealots like vx unicom, who try to convert anyone who's not christian, and insist that anyone who does not agree with their beliefs are "too ignorant to see the truth." People like that fail to realize that the people they persecute are not the ones "blind to truth," but they themselves are blinded by their own faith, unable to think or speak for themselves.

I apoligize if I offended you by my generalization, but when some rambling 13 year old like him ignores my arguments to say that i'm "too ignorant and young to see the truth," when he has no evidence to back his claims, I tend to get a little heated. If he were smart enough and open enough to step back and forget about his "you are wrong, and I am right" attitude, I may not have lost my head.

But you must see what I mean. He's sitting there, claiming that his religion is the only true religion and flat-out stating that all other religions are wrong, when he not only has no proof to back his outlandish claims, but definately has no place to state that his beliefs are superior to all others, and that anyone who doesn't agree is obviously "ignorant."[/quote]
Joe stop putting words in my mouth, i never said my religion was better than all the others. People who get angry during a debate don't deserve to even say anything, ur immature actions will make u loose a case. For ur own information i'm not 13 years old. calling me names like a headed zealot!!! i see......and ur yet ur saying ur not tossing unsults. Anyways Spirits are real dude........proof? Go to the graveyard at midnight,....LOL, Try debating the issue instead putting words in my mouth. I'm not trying to convert anyone who is not christian, heck i'm very good in science which gives me the edge in this topic. By the way roll i'm not trying to use the earth as prove. Oneday joe u will see the truth!!! God exists or else we wouldn't have the technology which we have and animals dont have that kind of ability.



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 20 2004 at 20:58

Your joking right? Go to a graveyard at midnight? I thought it was man who created the technology.

...Um, no graveyard haha...While yes I belief that sprits are real. I don't believe that you have to be at a graveyard to see one or more like feel them.

I brought up the Shinto and Buddhist belief of reincarnation, and you said "There as no such thing as being reincarnated." So basically, you said "all believers of Shinto and Buddhism are wrong." Don't say I'm putting words in my mouth, because saying that there's no such thing as reincarnation would be the same thing as saying that they're wrong.

I'm getting angry because you continue to insist that you're right when you offer no proof or evidence to support your claims....you just say "no you're wrong, god does exist."

My immature actions? You were the one who said I was young and ignorant simply because I don't believe in christianity.

Ok, and I see tombstones and grave markers. I've never seen a spirit in a graveyard.

I HAVE BEEN debating the issue. I've been offering instance after instance of proof, and you merely ignore it and keep saying "your too young and ignorant to see the truth." I presented the truth, and you ignored it. So how about YOU start debating instead of making unbacked claims.

How does that give you the edge? I've been using science as my source in my debate thus far, and you've never even regarded it. Instead, you've ignored it and continue with your "no you're wrong, god does exist." Instead of bragging and CLAIMING that you have the edge in the topic, how about you actually start debating my points instead of ignoring them.

Lol, we have technology because we developed it over time as we evolved. Even monkeys and chimpanzees are able to use primitive tools, which is what we started out using. The only difference is that we evolved, and they did not. God did not give us technology, our brains created technology.

In fact, technology and science go hand in hand, and so far, science is disproving the existence of god...or rather, is disproving a few key aspects of the bible. So why would your god give us the technology to prove his nonexistence?

ah just go with the shinto. and if there is a hell, well id prefer it to this cold ars desert im livin in! ah now i remember paradise, but i was forced to leave it!! nooo it was so beautiful and temperate! i miss the mediterranean! anywho, good advice is, no matter what you believe, be nice, try your best, and enjoy life. ah yeah, cuz its short and u dont know if you get a second chance. i think i was a dancing monkey in my past life tho lol. i mean eh, my family is catholic and i lived in THE country of catholicism where nothing else went. lets just say that somehow i felt out of place in church lol. bwahaha.



Edited By m0u5y on Mar. 21 2004 at 03:27

Joe i'm not ignoring your points, I have the edge in this debate because i knowboth science and the bible. Joe how come animals don't evolve from animals anymore?? JOE most of the people disagree with your statements!!!. U say u bring the truth by saying humans don't have a Soul, No way.......what do u think makes us any different from animals? Because humans have a soul and animals don't. Well by saying there is no such thing as reincarnation i didn't mean that my religion was better than all the others! Joe ur not bringing the truth by saying there is no such thing as a soul which is a bunch of lies. Do you have proof that Spirits don't exist. Even some scientist believe in God, that spirits do exist, even as u speak u have a soul without even knowing it. Joe u believe that everything that happens is a coincidence which i highly doubt that. I did give u proof of a source.....that there is a source of energy that created the universe and that it concludes to the existence of God. OK...i know that humans were created by God and i know what since says which i think doesn't really make sense. How can we don't evolve anymore?!?? Can u briefly explain to us why we can't evolve from animals as we used to??? ;)

[quote:post_uid0="vx_unicom"]Joe i'm not ignoring your points, I have the edge in this debate because i knowboth science and the bible. Joe how come animals don't evolve from animals anymore?? JOE most of the people disagree with your statements!!!. U say u bring the truth by saying humans don't have a Soul, No way.......what do u think makes us any different from animals? Because humans have a soul and animals don't. Well by saying there is no such thing as reincarnation i didn't mean that my religion was better than all the others! Joe ur not bringing the truth by saying there is no such thing as a soul which is a bunch of lies. Do you have proof that Spirits don't exist. Even some scientist believe in God, that spirits do exist, even as u speak u have a soul without even knowing it. Joe u believe that everything that happens is a coincidence which i highly doubt that. I did give u proof of a source.....that there is a source of energy that created the universe and that it concludes to the existence of God. OK...i know that humans were created by God and i know what since says which i think doesn't really make sense. How can we don't evolve anymore?!?? Can u briefly explain to us why we can't evolve from animals as we used to??? ;)[/quote]
1st thing how do you know animals don't have souls....

What are you saying...Are you asking y don't animals evolve anymore? If so, then they still are. Look around you. Scientist all over are saying they are finding new species. Like the liger(lion and tiger). Hmm, how about that white whale. Who's name doesn't come to mind.

Hmm, what makes us different from animals? Well, have you looked around. Cuz know that I surely don't walk on all fours like a dog. And humans have more brain capacity. Dogs unlike Humans also can not hear high pitch sounds. Humans often hurt their own kind on purpose. Humans have hands. Dogs have paws...

Well, we don't evolve anymore because there is no need to. Humans can make more humans by having sex. So there really is no reason for humans to evolve from apes/gorillas anymore.

Oh and just so you know. I believe in God, evolution, souls, and spirts.

[quote:post_uid4="Elena"]1st thing how do you know animals don't have souls....

What are you saying...Are you asking y don't animals evolve anymore? If so, then they still are. Look around you. Scientist all over are saying they are finding new species. Like the liger(lion and tiger). Hmm, how about that white whale. Who's name doesn't come to mind.

Hmm, what makes us different from animals? Well, have you looked around. Cuz know that I surely don't walk on all fours like a dog. And humans have more brain capacity. Dogs unlike Humans also can not hear high pitch sounds. Humans often hurt their own kind on purpose. Humans have hands. Dogs have paws...

Well, we don't evolve anymore because there is no need to. Humans can make more humans by having sex. So there really is no reason for humans to evolve from apes/gorillas anymore.[/quote:post_uid4]
I dont believe that we were apes..?!? that does not make sense......Natuku joe, all this u have been saying proves that ur way in to scince.....cause every thing u have been saying u have been relating to scince...dont know why...

And joe there is a heaven and hell...if youdont believe it then ur blinded by ur own believes......Scientist's have been try to understand everything that they are lying to them selves and to others..etc, joe............with out even realizing it.

just if youdont know natuku joe.....we are leving in hell and try looking at things with different views........ :alien: scientist's said that jesus did not create earth....thats wat you put in ur head right away. :laughlong:

ok...since you want prove , i try to make you understand.....do you know the story of Adam and Eve..?!?You dont cause u dont read the bible........those two were the first humans god created in his image...?!?then where could scientist's have got that we evolved from apes... ???

I used to be roman catholic, and I've read the bible cover-to-cover. That's how I came to realize that I thought it was all crap.

I've also gotten straight As in any science-related course I've ever taken (sans a B+ in my college physics course).

Therefore, I also have knowledge of the bible and science. The only difference between you and I are that I actually cite sources and instances, wheras you make unbacked claims.

They do! Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

Animal evolution takes place over many years, not mere days. Scientists have performed experiments that have proven that evolution happens. Separating the same flock of birds and same group of field mice over two different islands with differing conditions, over 50 years, scientists have observed that they have been able to adapt to their environment and actually evolve minor characteristic differences....increases to overall size, beak size and color, diet, etc.

Scientists have also proven that evolution exists by the fact that 30 million years ago, sloths were over 15 feet tall and armadillos were the size of Volkswagons. Look at them today....they're very small. Why? They evolved. They could no longer survive in the changing environment due to their enormous sizes, so they evolved into smaller, more survivable versions of themselves.

So you're wrong with that statement. Evolution still occurs, just not as fast as you think it does. For someone who claims to be knowledgable about science, I thought you'd know that

You have no proof. You can run around and say "i don't need proof, proof is all around us," but that still doesn't mean jack. Unless you can provide PROOF, stop making outlandish claims.

Fine, you "know" that humans were created by god, and I "know" that they weren't.

We still can evolve. Let me give you a brief science lesson:

[quote]ev