WHOA! now thats a lengthy post..i tried to read all of it but skimmed most of it. I'll wait around for someone to post another lengthy post arguing against you but good luck finding someone willing to debate that. Remember we're all SFO nerds that don't care about evolution ;) no actullay im sure someone will get a good point across but that someone won't be me :alien:

Yup. I definitely think that creatures evolve from primordial mud balls like Earth, and that they adapt to meet the daily vigors of the environment, or perish.

But all species "run their course" and die out eventualy.
The human race will be no different.

...Lets face it, we're done for.

All hail the cockroach! :D



Edited By nosoul4evr on Mar. 22 2004 at 22:12

SPAM! lol
mmm yum...
now here... why ponder on such trivial topics... there will NEVER be a definite answer to anything, since we weren't there to witness anything, and even then humans make mistakes. its puzzleing to know that humans will always ask why. why is the sky blue, why does e=mc^2 and so on. some of these questions brought out good things, but many ended up bringing the freakken nuke! now,i would understand debating about the origin of humans and evolution IF it could benefit the world today. in a certain sense, by studying evolution we can predict in what sorts of cycles the planet goes through regarding extinction and global warming, but is this why you are debating it? or is it just because you HAVE to prove to the non believers that god is in fact a human creation and that humans evolved from their ansestors? another thing... can we really evolve with such overpopulation? nature is trying to compensate but humans are sucessfully fighting back. this can only harm humans themselves. think about it, for stupid reasons humans just keep breeding. why not adopt!? its funny how human technology causes problems that instead it tries to solve.

I agree!
"Stop the breeding! Stop friggin breeding damn it"
...oh yeah... and
"All hail the cockroach!" :D



Edited By nosoul4evr on Mar. 22 2004 at 22:44

hahaha yeah. you breeders! hm now if we genetically combined a roach and a human...

Um, no we're not. Not really, actually. There are quite a few specie of animals that have remained unchanged for millions of years. Case in point: the crocodiles and alligators. Science and research have shown that these two great reptiles have been around since the time of the dinosaurs (over a hundred million years) yet have remained almost completely unchanged over the course of time. Why? Because both of these creatures have supposedly reached the pinnacle of their evolutionary statuses for their own particular environments. Sharks are the same way. Sharks have been around since the time of the dinosaurs, and with the exception of charcharadon megalodon, have survived unchanged in their environments for millions of years. They no longer have any need to evolve because they have already become perfectly adapt with their environment, no further change is needed.

Therefore, human beings have also SEEMINGLY reached the same stage. Sure, room for mental evolution is still definately there, but physiologically, because we no longer have to physically adapt to our environments, evolution has been, for the time being, slowed to a crawl.

Absolutely correct, forgive me for not mentioning mutation earlier. Evolution is a change in the gene pool of a population over time. A gene is a hereditary unit that can be passed on unaltered for many generations. The gene pool is the set of all genes in a species or population. Certain situations can affect one or more creatures in a population and force mutation.

A perfect example of this would be the English moth, Biston betularia. In this moth, there are two color morphs, light- and dark-colored. Scientists discovered that the dark-colored moths constituted less than 2% of the population prior to 1848. The frequency of the dark-colored morph increased dramatically, however. By 1898, the 95% of the moths on Manchester and other highly industrialized areas were of the dark type. Their frequency was less, however, in rural areas. The moth pupulation changed from mostly light colored moths to mostly dark-colored moths. The moths' color is primarily determined by a single gene. So, the change in frequency of dark-colored moths represented a change in the gene pool. This change was, by definition, evolution.

The increase in relative abundance of the dark type was due to natural selection. The late eighteen hundreds was the time of England's industrial revolution. Soot from factories darkened the birch trees the moths landed on. Against a sooty background, birds could see the lighter colored moths better and ate more of them. As a result, more dark moths survived until reproductive age and left offspring. The greater number of offspring left by dark moths is what caused their increase in frequency. This is an example of natural selection.

Populations evolve. In order to understand evolution, it is necessary to view populations as a collection of individuals, each harboring a different set of traits. A single organism is never typical of an entire population unless there is no variation within that population. Individual organisms do not evolve, they retain the same genes throughout their life. When a population is evolving, the ratio of different genetic types is changing -- each individual organism within a population does not change. For example, in the previous example, the frequency of black moths increased; the moths did not turn from light to gray to dark in concert. The process of evolution can be summarized in three sentences: Genes mutate. Individuals are selected. Populations evolve.

Evolution requires genetic variation. If there were no dark moths, the population could not have evolved from mostly light to mostly dark. In order for continuing evolution there must be mechanisms to increase or create genetic variation and mechanisms to decrease it. Mutation is a change in a gene. These changes are the source of new genetic variation. Natural selection operates on this variation.

So yes, you're absolutely correct. Evolution is carried forward by genetic mutation. However, you're incorrect that it only starts with one member of a specie or population. It begins with a GROUP of animals in a population.

i mean we are trying to break the laws of evolution by messing with genetics.

well... you won't find any good debate material here about that matter nantuko, it is too touchy and the only ones who will actually debate with you or against you must i say, are th eones who think religionbs are the only thing.

for my part i say like i said in the other thread, you live be happy with it and live the best you can. the past is nothing for me... why would i really give my life and dedication just to know from what i was born millions of years from now ?

so i won'T argue with you...

as for EVOLUTION, if you need a good example...
our technology, why didn't we had it already ?
because we transformed and adapted to our way of life.
same goes for evolution... it didn't happen right away. it took a long time adapting to the harsh way of life on planet earth.

but again...
science never prooved anything with 100% accuracy !
heck even 85% wouldn't be enough since stats tells you what you want to know.
yeah apes have more things that are about the same as us... but that doesn't proove that we came out of them in the first place. so again, even science is a belief ! so that's why i beleive what i see, not what i never saw, hear, touched myself !

and even then you shouldn believe it. even human perception can be deceiving. for one, how do you know that the reality for one person is the same for the other, as in the way they perceive the world, colors, and so on? there cant be an opinion w/o bias. to tell the truth, for some weird reason my brain is split in two. on one side i have belief in the supernatural and religion, the whole goodie good attitude, kindess and all, and on the other i have the "science is the way to go" risk taking i dont give a hoot... so im already confliced in my mind, kinda hard for me to take one side lol.

To honest with ya, I'd have preferred the topic on the theory of relativity.. :biggrin: More to do with Physics than Biology.. blah!

Anywho, you want main facts on evolution.. here goes nothing.. :biggrin:

I'm not really in a good mood to brainstorm since it's like 2:39 am here.. so I'll start from the section on natural selection.
Darwin (the father of evolution.. *cough*) himself stated that

This cuts short what he was trying to say in his theory of evolution.. the survival of the fittest. Now I have argued in a somewhat objective manner because of my belief, on this topic in the past.. but I'll try and put that in check for now.... key word: for now

Anyway, Darwin here is trying to give us a fulcrum to which the present species of nowadays exist. There were those that existed in the past that had the same look, genetic code and what have you.. but due to the "natural" things that happen in this earth.. such as attack by preditors, or natural disasters, some have gone exinct.. But to those who have survive, have yielded offsprings whether plants or animals that have been well equiped to withstand the ever changing surroundings they face.. Thus, they are the fittest.. and have survived.

Darwin also states that:

Thus you can see the origin of new species.. while those who didn't develop well enough to survive die out and go extinct.. Those that were well equipped, grew and form the new generation so to say.

Now to the origin of man. I really enjoyed your theory on the origin of man... Good charts too :biggrin:
But this is what I want to know.. According to science, there is infact no doubt that you are correct.. but tell me something.. if our brains are going to evolve further what do you see the human race turning into 2.5 million years from now... if the sun can still keep its cool till that time?

If in fact we are evolving at a slow pace, then there should be a sorta change that would have occured to us across the years.. as far as I'm concerned.. sceince and technology are the only evidences available.. but I'm curious to know what lies ahead of the human race.. What are the limits to our thoughts, that extra capability of our mind.... The thought of that intrigues me.. and I'd like someone to give me a good info..if infact you have one that is ...

Now on a side note,

That was Joe's arguement about Viper's theory (or wherever he got it from) on evolution being carried by mutation.. which is in fact true.. but define what you mean by a group. If in fact a group mutates in such a way, that in fact, helps them to survive the seemingly present "forces" that cause them to adapt, where did that group come from. Thus I think Viper may be correct on the mere fact that an individual out of a group starts/mutates/gets the basic trait and then passes this to its offspring. These traits become dormant instead of staying recessive.. and thus a new species is born. Say hello to my little friend! :biggrin:

Finally...

If in fact.. they can survive radiation, then maybe we should hail them.. lol.. riight :biggrin:



Edited By blanka09 on Mar. 23 2004 at 03:01