I simply don't care anymore. Absolute Zero stops ALL reactions of ANY kind. I said that Gill would lower the temperature AROUND the lab to Absolute Zero, not lower the temperature of the Lab itself.

doesn't anyone answer my posts?

gill cannot significantly lower temperature INSTANTLY, it'll take him some time.

where does it say that gill can use his powers while wondering around as a soul without a body?

[quote:post_uid0="Dan Hibiki"]I simply don't care anymore. Absolute Zero stops ALL reactions of ANY kind. I said that Gill would lower the temperature AROUND the lab to Absolute Zero, not lower the temperature of the Lab itself.[/quote]
Dude, isn't Absolute Zero ZERO DEGREES FARENHEIT, WHICH IS THE SAME AS ZERO DEGREES CENTIGRADE? Now, if I can hang out in a confined envoronment where the temperature is negative forty degrees farenheit, which is lower than absolute zero and come out an hour later without being affected. Now, apparently if temperature COLDER than absolute zero doesn't stop reactions, then Absolute Zero would not stop reactions.

And even if, by some miracle of physics, you ARE right, you still have to try and counterdebate my other three methods.

...This isn't a debate any more. It's just a big fight now. http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/grumpy.gif


...Oh, and Rose can use her soul power to control objects. Since Buu has no brain, or organs, then he can still be considered an object (Just like Hsienko's scarf. It's alive, but it's still an object). And if that doesn't help, get Tessa to eliminate him from that world with HER magic. This may or may not be my last argument. http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sly.gif

I can't remember exact numbers, Joe, but Absolute Zero is a temperature in which it is so very cold that it is impossible to get any colder. All molecular movement ceases. In the Kelvin scale, it is 0

He may be an OBJECT, but everyone is technically an object. I am an object. My friend's cat is an object. Your mom is an object. Now, if you want to use object, you probably mean "inanimate" object, like a desk or a chair. However, even IF Buu is classified as an object, he's still an "animate" object, and thusly would not be affected. It would be like trying to use her "object" power to control me or my friend's cat or your mom.

[color=green]Instantly stopping the molecules would not make the temperature Absolute Zero INSTANTLY, it would be very quick (like a half a sec) but it can't happen instantly. INSTANT=without the passage of time. INSTANT is Goku's Shunkan Idou and Kaiobito's Kai Kai. THAT is instant. However, for the temperature to make a drastic change (from room temperature to -273

If Gohan can kill Cell, and Gill can kill Gohan, than all there is left (To my mind and to the argument you either ignored or missed) is that Tessa would eliminate Buu back into that egg shell barrier thing using her magic, and Gill would be able to fight Cell without disruption from Buu. Disagree? Agree? Either way, this path to victory is true.

Tessa is a spell user just like Bibidi and Babidi, but with some greater spells since she has been practicing her magic on Street Fighters. Because of her recent adventures, she now has the ability to change people into other forms regardless of what they want. I got's to go to school, so I'll post more soon...

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"]Because of her recent adventures, she now has the ability to change people into other forms regardless of what they want.[/quote]
Other forms? How do you mean? And how can you say she has greater spells than Bibidi and Babidi just because he's been practicing them on Street Fighters? Babidi was thousands of years old when he died, and we never saw the extent of his sorcery. Bibidi was probably even more powerful, for he was the one who actually created Buu. Now if Bibidi was revived, he'd theoretically have the power to create a second Buu, and that would be a HUGE advantage for DBZ...

Temperature changes would be instantaneous. A slow change is me putting my applesauce into the refrigerator. The molecules gradually slow, gradually lowering its temperature. An instantaneous stop of all molecular motion is instantaneous Absolute Zero.

Gill CAN'T be sent to the afterlife. Akuma tried to use the Shun Goku Satsu to send Gill to Hell, but it couldn't do it. Gill CAN'T be sent to the afterlife.

Bibidi is DEAD. You can't use him in this debate. You can use Babidi, because he is alive during the actual events of DBZ.

I mean keep form as in they retain their appearance when they were alive. Those little puffs lined up to see King Enma are helpless and without their original form.

Because Gill is a God, he can still change temperatures and control the elements, but he can't physically interact with anything, e.g. touch or punch.

Forgot about the milk ball incident. If Vegetto could put up a fight still, then Gill could still defend himself using the elements.

Joe, your lack of common sense is annoying me. Gill can lower the temperature AROUND THE LAB, AROUND THE BUILDING, THROUGH THE GROUND AROUND THE BUILDING TOO to Absolute Zero. NOT THE INSIDE, BUT AROUND THE OUTSIDE.

Goku can lock onto any ki signal, yes, but he CAN'T know which ki signals are the lab technicians. NO way.

Now for the points you raise...

1. Gill can't go to the afterlife. Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu attempt is enough to prove that. 'Nuff said.

2. I am so damn tired of this King Enma crap, so let me set this straight. King Enma does NOT get involved in ANYTHING unless it is the end of the universe. The battle between the DBZ fighters and Street Fighter is NOT a battle for the sake universe, so King Enma couldn't care less. He would do NOTHING.

3. If you have Buu in the equation, then Cell is already perfected. Perfect Cell can't do that.

And I'm telling you, instantaneous is the same as instantly, and that means WITHOUT THE PASSAGE OF TIME. Now, to have the temperature lowered from room temperature to -273*C WITHOUT THE PASSAGE OF TIME is not physically possible. You can't have an INSTANTANEOUS stop of all molecular motion, it would take some time. Even if it's a half a second, it can be done, but for something natural such as temperature changes to occur INSTANTANEOUSLY is not physically possible. Sorry to burst your bubble

The Shun Goku Satsu KILLS both the body and the spirit. It didn't affect Gill because although Gill's body COULD have died, his spirit would have lived on.

However, if you want to get technical with it, lemme use another example: Kaiobito can use the Kai Kai to teleport Gill to the Kaioshin's Planetoid (where Gohan pulled out the Z sword), then teleport away. Since the planetoid is in another dimension, Gill would be unable to get back to the fight. Same concept, different dimension

I know. I said it would be cool...

Even so, the spirit cannot interact with the real world. Goku, while in his spirit form, cannot go back to the real world and use a Kamehameha or any other powers. Therefore, Gill's spirit, even though it's in the real world, cannot use any special powers (even temperature changes) regardless of his level of deity

...and though Goku can't fly towards the "Absolute Zero Wall" lest he be frozen, he'll still be outside the lab, and be able to lock onto any power inside the lab, teleport inside, and blow it up.

Yes he can, even from far away, though it would take a long time. However, if he tails Gill to the lab, and even if Gill makes an Absolute Zero Shield, Goku will be very close to the lab (pretty much on its doorstep), and can easily lock onto a power that's inside the lab (after all, he'll be right there). Once he does so, he can teleport inside, then destroy the lab.

Fine. He can use another dimension. For example, Kaiobito can teleport Gill to either the ROSAT dimension and leave him stranded there (the door IS gone, after all), or to the dimension where Kaiobito's planetoid is located. Either way, Gill would be stranded there with no way out. (Kaiobito's Kai Kai does not need a ki target, unlike Goku's Shunkan Idou. Therefore, he can teleport to a random dimension)

Not true. Enma allowed Goku to travel Snake Way to receive training from North Kaio-sama. Technically, he should have just sent Goku to Heaven, but he allowed Goku to go past Snake Way anyway. Same as Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Tenshinhan. He let them travel Snake Way, but wasn't supposed to. He was supposed to send them to Heaven, but didn't.

True.

And as long as we're talking about special powers, I've got another special power for you...

Though this never happened, it CAN happen...

They can send ppl like Buruma and Chaozu to gather the Dragonballs, then make a wish for one or more of the following:

-They can wish that Goku is immortal
-They can wish for the Dragon to revoke Gill's god-status
-They can wish that any of the Z fighters can be immortal
-They can wish that any of the Z fighters be given the same god-status as Gill

So technically, the Dragonballs could (and prolly WOULD) win the fight for DBZ

i just have one question.

do you have any proof that gill can use his powers in his "spirit" form? or any proof that gill is a god or immortal? cause that txt file tarkan provided me with doesn't say anything about that.

F**cking computer glitch... I typed up this whole page of proofs...

Gill's temperature changes are as close to instantaneous as something can be. He's a God with complete control of the elements, and can do whatever the heck he wants with them however fast he wants. Molecular motion can be stopped the very next instant after he commands it. In any case, it is so fast that the DBZ fighters would not be able to react in time. (That make ya happy now?!)

princevegetam, this has been stated so many times. The fact that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu, which sends the SOUL to Hell, could not affect Gill in any way PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is an immortal.

Now onto the Shun Goku Satsu and what it REALLY does. The Shun Goku Satsu does not KILL the body, to say. It sends the soul to Hell, and if the target's soul doesn't return from Hell when Akuma comes back (for he is sent to Hell for the duration of the attack too), then the body dies from a lack of connectivity with the soul. It failed on Gill because Gill's soul couldn't be sent to Hell in the first place.

Joe, what was it that Goku was doing during the first part of the Buu Saga? Oh yeah, he was a SPIRIT INTERACTING WITH THE REAL WORLD TO BE IN THE TOURNAMENT. NO BODY. JUST SPIRIT. Smack. If he had a body, then he wouldn'tve had the halo over his head. By this stroke of logic, Gill can interact with the physical world at the very least through elemental manipulation when in his spirit form.

Joe, what were the Saiyans doing that the time that King Enma allowed Goku to travel to Snake Way? Oh, that's right, they were DESTROYING ENTIRE PLANETS. Hmm... looks suspiciously like taking action to save the universe...

If you're going to pull that, "Summon Shenlong," crap on me, then I'll lay it out for you. Seven Dragonballs are scattered about the planet. At least one can be found by a member of Gill's organization, and have it shattered on command. No SEVEN Dragonballs, no Shenlong.

Just because he's an immortal doesn't mean he's a godly deity. But as far as the temperature thing goes...whatever you say.

Right. His soul can't be sent to hell. However, I abandoned the afterlife thing and went on to specify different dimensions that Gill can be trapped in with no escape. IE, the ROSAT dimension, Kaiobito's dimension, etc

Wrong. When Goku was allowed back to the real world, he was given 0a temporary body with a set amount of energy. When he went SSJ3, instead of draining away life energy, it drained away the energy given to him for being on earth. Also, that is why he was able to exist in the dimension where Kaioshin's planetoid is located: he had a temporary body. The problem was, Goku's body was dead in that dimension. When the Rou Dai Kaioshin gave his life to allow Goku to return to the real world, he didn't give his body, but his LIFE ENERGY, and that is what allowed Goku to return for good. But when he was allowed to return for the tournament, he was given a temporary body. Same as Vegeta when he was allowed to return to fight Buu.

Umm...no. The Saiya-jins were merely going to go to earth to get the Dragonballs. The only planet they destroyed was Arlia. And the only reason Vegeta wanted the balls was to wish for immortality so he could overthrow Furiza, who at the time was the tyrant of the universe. Therefore, Enma allowed Goku to go through Snake Way so he could receive training to PREVENT THE SAIYA-JINS FROM GETTING THE DRAGONBALLS, not from DESTROYING THE GALAXY

First off, the Dragonballs are unlocatable without the Dragon Radar. That is why Goku had to delay Buu so Trunks could get the Radar--without the Radar, you can't find the Dragonballs. And who is the only person with the Dragon Radar? Is it "Gill's organization"? No. Is it Buruma and the Z-gang? You guessed it.

Second off, I don't believe the Dragonballs can be destroyed. The only way to render them useless is to kill Dende (who will probably go into hiding the moment the fighting begins).

Third and lastly off, Kaiobito or someone else can easily make contact with the Nameks on New Namek and use their set of Dragonballs. And no one from "Gill's organization" can get in a spaceship and blast off to New Namek in time to stop Porunga from appearing and granting the wish.

Other forms as in Frogs, Bunnies, CHOCOLATE... etc...http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/sly.gif

Probably.... and he may not be more powerful. He may have created Buu, but remember, Tessa is from a different world than Babadi & Bibidi. So they're all the most powerful casters in their world.

Yeah.... if he is revived.

What's to stop them from finding him and killing him?

Proof, please! :biggrin:

BTW....do you like the new smilies? ^-^ I'm dying to know! *giggles*

HOW DO YOU QOUT SO MUCH LIKE NATUKO :D

Joe, how do you think the Red Ribbon army found the Dragonballs in DB? The first few were found without the Dragon Radar. Gill's organization could easily spot just one of them and shatter it. The Dragonballs CAN be destroyed, because why would Kullilin try to shatter it when the Ginyu Force arrived?

If you're going to keep on saying that the Dragonballs can't be destroyed, then we can just say Gill > Dende, and that Dende is killed.

Roll, that new smilie scares me...

[quote:post_uid0="Dan Hibiki"]Roll, that new smilie scares me...[/quote]
Aww... I got others though. How much do you want to bet Nantuko's gonna wake up in the morning and think about this?
http://www.boomspeed.com/sakura/cutie.gif

[quote:post_uid4="mysticveggeto"]HOW DO YOU QOUT SO MUCH LIKE NATUKO :D[/quote:post_uid4]
[color=blue:post_uid4]Do you mean why?
They quote so much.
Or how do they do it?

Well they quote one another.
To make sure they.
Read what they did right.
As well to make some one.
Eat their own words as well :biggrin:

Also they can base.
The truth of some.
Of their own fact's on.
The quotes alone by itself.

Now to quote some one.
You can Just press.
The button that say's quote.
That help's as well.

You can Just click on the.
Quote button when.
You are reading a topic.
Or you can press reply.
Then look then quote.
By paste and copy :biggrin:[/color:post_uid4]

Right...

Lemme ask you a question...Can this "tessa" use her "powerful magic" to create a being capable of total destruction that has the ability to kill off Gods? I dont' think so. And Bibidi and Babidi were the most powerful casters in THEIR world

It is stated in both the manga and the anime, genius. Beat that.

True, my mistake. I was so focused on the DBZ aspect of the fight, I forgot about the events of Dragonball

Bah...I forgot. Damn it.

However, there is still the issue of the Namek Dragonballs that would summon Porunga. Someone like Kaiobito or Dende could contact the new Saichourou (Guru) on New Namek and get them to make the wish. Gill's Organization would be unable to get to New Namek (they have no idea where the hell it is), and would not be able to stop the wish(es) from being made.

Kaiobito doesn't know where the Hell New Namek is, either. The new Guru of Namek doesn't have the level of power the old Saichourou has, either, because he was the father to the entire race, and had deep psychic connections to only what is happening on the planet he is on. Even if the new Guru of New Namek had Saichourou's powers, it still wouldn't suffice. Dende would not be able to contact New Namek.

You must also consider the amount of time it would take. What if a message COULD be gotten through to the Guru on Namek? He would have to contact the six elders, and then the Dragonballs would have to be assembled. It takes a few days at the very least to fly from some of the villages to others, so it would take over a day AT LEAST to assemble the balls. By that time the battle would have concluded. You see, by the time the DBZ fighters would come to realize that they would need the Dragonballs, Gill's organization would have already ruined the Earth set, and the battle would be to the point where the DBZ fighters would not hold out much longer.

krillin had no idea if dragonballs could be destroyed or not, he attempted to destroy it out of desperation, but he didn't get a chance to test his theory. so no one knows if they can be destroyed.

I'm not joking.

Does Bibidi and Babidi have the ability to turn themselves into dragons, change other peoples forms (and lower their power), and tie enemies up to a rocket in the blink of an eye? I dunno... let's wait for your answer. And Tessa is the most powerful spell caster in HER world.

Calm down. I was just asking a question. I don't watch/read DBZ everday (or month for that matter).

Possibly, but we never are shown the full extent of Bibidi and Babidi's powers. What we DO know is taht both Bibidi and Babidi have powerful control over evil magic and ki, and can use mind control on a person with evil ki, and control them utterly. They also have telepathic abilities, and can teleport anyone within the confines of their ships to any location in the universe.

And tie someone to a rocket? Please, don't make me laugh. As if the Z fighters can't flex their muscles and break a rope.

My bad...

and you can start trying to figure out ways to counterdebate my theories, it will make debating a lot quicker and easier

Thanks for your understanding, Nantuko, and for the advice. I just threw in the tie with a rope to a rocket thing for laughs. She does that as a throw move. Also, I need some time away from the world, so I probably won't use your advice for a bit..
Oh, and the dragon balls have Ki readings? O.o; That's new to me...

[quote:post_uid2="Nantuko Joe"][color=green:post_uid2]At the very least, Goku can. Goku, after all, teleported to New Namek so he can pick up Dende to bring Dende to earth to be the new Kami. Therefore, Goku can teleport to New Namek, lock onto the ki readings of each of the Dragonballs, collect them all in like 3 minutes, then make the wish. What now? What? What?

And unless Gill's organization built a machine to locate seven balls they've never before seen or studied, they would have no way of tracking them. And if the DBZ fighters sent out some low-level PPL (like Yajirobe and Buruma), without the SF fighters knowing (this is before GIll's organ. would be able to destroy the dragonballs), the SF characters would not be able to track them (they do not have the same kind of ki location senses that the DBZ fighters have[/color:post_uid2][/quote:post_uid2]
theres no new namek they just whent some were in earth

....Ignore that. Before you even think about flaming him, look at his sig... it explains a whole lot.

[quote:post_uid0="Roll"]....Ignore that. Before you even think about flaming him, look at his sig... it explains a whole lot.[/quote]
point taken :lol:

Still, I want to smack him for even saying that...

Tired. Will debate more tomorrow.

It's kind of odd. They don't have ki readouts like the fighters do, but they have a slight power output that allows them to track them. However, they can't do it with the Earth's Dragonballs, since they're not the original set. Porunga's Dragonballs, since they are the original, have the power outputs

Trying....to supress...instinct to FLAME LIKE HELL...too...hard...must....resist...GYAHHHHH!

Come on, guys, we've got to keep this going until DBZ or SF wins!

Yeah.. too bad they probably aren't in the ship. Even if they were, the ship would/could be destroyed/melted pretty fast.

i chose dragon ball because the db characters are, in short, just plain Stronger, faster, and have more abilitis.
I mean, its not like Ryu can possibly turn into a super saiyan.

p.s. SF is also kind of cool, tooo.

even tho goku and all of them, can turn into "super saiyans" i think, that akuma can beat any dbz character thats not a super saiyan, becuz akuma is so strong, can breathe under water, and destroy mountains!!!!

In conclusion: my Winner: SF

...Rocky, yes, he would *probably* be a match for a lot of the DB"Z" fighters, but he cannot win the fight alone. However, we're currently figuring out who will win! ^-^ I just need Nantuko (DB"Z" side's top person) to come back and make, like, 15,000 arguments!

Dang you guys must be sorry asses because anyone over 7 years old who watches dragonballZ is a total loser. :buttrock:

[quote:post_uid0="apocolypse83"]Dang you guys must be sorry asses because anyone over 7 years old who watches dragonballZ is a total loser. :buttrock:[/quote]
oh really?! so are you calling me a loser? huh?! and just what makes me a loser? so dbz makes me a loser huh?! care to explain why?