What are all the levels of super saiyan? - What are all the levels of super saiyan? [Archive]

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Yugi

09-23-2002, 02:44 AM

What are all the levels of super saiyan? if you know ALL of them post it here. if you're from japan you should have no problem doing this! p.s. my xmvssf name is yugimoto7 somone challenge me if you see me.

Dan Hibiki

09-23-2002, 08:50 AM

Super Saiyan: a certain power level (somewhere around 300,000) and intense rage is necessary. Causes increased muscle definition, golden hair, yellow ki, and green eyes, and increases a person's temper. A massive power increase not calculatable by math occurs as well.

Super Saiyan Dai 2 Dankai: also known as the Ultimate Super Saiyan 2, or the Ascended Saiyan. Increased muscle size, along with the effects of Super Saiyan are caused. A person's power level increases dramatically in this form, but mainly in the area of strength and only some in speed.

Super Saiyan Dai 3 Dankain: also known as the Ultimate Super Saiyan 3, or Mirai Trunks's Ascended Saiyan form. Muscle size increases DRAMATICALLY, often increasing the person's height by several inches, but because of the added bulk of the muscles it is a detriment to the person's speed. Super Saiyan Dai 3 Dankain has a MASSIVE strength increase, but speed suffers.

Super Saiyan 2: also known as Gohan's proper Ascension. Muscle size increases some (not as much as Super Saiyan Dai 2 Dankai), and strength and speed increase dramatically. Also the person's heart is overcome with rage the first time they use the form, far more than the first time in becoming a Super Saiyan. The user's hair (in the case of half-Saiyans whose hair is not in a fixed position all the time), the hair spikes up into the proper Super Saiyan position for the hair.

Super Saiyan 3: unlike the other Super Saiyan forms, Super Saiyan 3 causes the user's hair to grow almost to a length to reach the person's ankles, and the person's eyebrows disappear. Incredible power and speed increase, far more than Super Saiyan 2, but ki is used up so very fast in this form that it is hardly useful. Gotenks is the only character that even should use it; Gotenks doesn't exist long enough to suffer from the effects of the energy usage anyways.

AFTER THIS POINT I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY FORMS! I MERELY MENTION THESE BECAUSE THEY ARE IN GT AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT ONLY DBZ FORMS OR ALL THE ONES THAT HAPPENED.

Golden Oozaru: supposedly the true form of a Super Saiyan if the person does not lose his/her tail. The person transforms into a golden-haired oozaru, and is far stronger than a standard oozaru.

Super Level 4: some people argue that it is called Super Saiyan 4, but that is just plain incorrect. Super Saiyans have the golden hair, green eyes, etc., and Super Level 4 has none of this. The user grows brown hair all over their body, and their eyes change color. The ki is still yellow, and if the person lost his/her tail previously the tail will grow back. Power increases massively along with speed.

princevegetam

09-23-2002, 12:57 PM

dan, i can understand if you don't like GT but the fact is, it is officially considered a sequel to Z so, we're just going to have to accept it.

DarkKilla

09-23-2002, 01:00 PM

right u just got it from a website i can easly tell

princevegetam

09-23-2002, 01:07 PM

shut up, little ####, dan doesn't need to copy off websites. you may do that, but dan can use his own knowledge.

Dan Hibiki

09-23-2002, 04:15 PM

right u just got it from a website i can easly tell
I did not. I know the levels by heart, and also know a multitude of the nearly 260 different attacks used in DB/DBZ. I am a DB/DBZ Guru. Ask, and I shall tell.

QUIET_KILLER

09-23-2002, 04:27 PM

[quote:post_uid4="Dan Hibiki"][quote:post_uid4="DarkKilla"]right u just got it from a website i can easly tell[/quote:post_uid4]
I did not. I know the levels by heart, and also know a multitude of the nearly 260 different attacks used in DB/DBZ. I am a DB/DBZ Guru. Ask, and I shall tell.[/quote:post_uid4]
Yo Thiz a classic reason why you should stick to the topic thiz could happen to you.You will feel kind of Krunchy.If some else is correct especially if you are trying to flame <!--emo&:lol: Hey I know that superlevel 4 is not real.However I have to admit It would be awesome if it were real.Also thiz is a ? I was going to answer however dan you beat me to it man :eek:

PARADISE-X

09-23-2002, 04:33 PM

Back in canada...all of my friends and I have the 42 comics of DBZ...Is it the same in the U.S....btw in the series we are at Goku ss3 vs majin buu...Ur probably in the Gt series by now...are u ???

Dan Hibiki

09-23-2002, 04:34 PM

Nope, we are still in the Buu Saga of DBZ.

SSJKarma

09-23-2002, 04:58 PM

Dan: the fact are... it is SUPER SAIYEN 4 !

reason 1
they are saiyen after all

reason 2
they do goes super to get to that form

reason 3
it isn't made by akira toriyama, so it is normal that the other person have put differences in the story or even in the characters !

anyway, GT isn't really a big deal compared to DBZ. the Z serie had a good storys but GT just plain sucks. exccept for the BEBI part who is kind of original.

now AF is something to talk about !
i readed a lot of web site who are trying to pull out the fact that it is real, but finished by saying that it is a rumor. and lots of them says it is just a rumor. but why did i find a movie on kazza that is from that rumor ?

i am starting to wonder about it...

PARADISE-X

09-23-2002, 05:06 PM

Yes...I have heard of this "AF" series...not sure that it exists...I found a AF pic of broli ss7 whit white hair (dont ask)

SSJKarma

09-23-2002, 05:42 PM

i can understand to see picture of such a DB !
after all, making picture isn't hard. but what i found is a MOVIE CLIP !

here is the explanation of what is seen in it...

nappa, in the middle of a city. he is calm and has a smile on his face, then he bring his finger up and the city just vanish in a burst of energy ! then he hear vegeta talking, he look back and the smile on his face just disappear. seeing vegeta standing on some rocks that was previously buildings. he makes fun of him (i don't know what is said since it's in japanese) then nappa rush on vegeta, but vegeta just smile and bring his hand in front of him then blast nappa with his all mighty BIG BANG ATTACK, and kill nappa ! then someone behind vegeta talk and vegeta reply to him and the movie clip ends there !

nappa = the nappa we see in the beginning of DBZ but he is better drawn and he seems as evilish as he was.

VEGETA = the one in GT, short hair, black jacket and black pants, with half gloves.

if you ever saw that scene from an DB episode, then just tell me. i have all 13 movies at home of DBZ and i know all the story from the DBZ episodes. and i never saw or hear about this in any of those. what is left, DBGT, but i know the story of it and i'm pretty sure it isn't in there either !

so there, what is this movie i found... tricked movie ? i doubt, not with the graphics that are in there... it is pure DB ! still, it's the only thing that can be of a DBAF series but no one would have heard of it ? that's really a shame to be stop with such rumors !

AF, some says it is...
"A"lternate "F"uture
"A"fter "F"uture

in any case, it is defintely an alternate universe since all DB or DBZ never actually happen in AF... it is simply another history of DB ! if anyone find out other weird movies that could be such a DB please advise me and i wwill look into it carefully !

princevegetam

09-23-2002, 05:49 PM

that is total bull sh it, that part is from dbGT. it's when nappa gets revived. and vegeta just kills him. WATCH ALL OF THE DB SERIES BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS AND KNOW THE STORYLINE!!

PARADISE-X

09-23-2002, 05:57 PM

that is total bull sh it, that part is from dbGT. it's when nappa gets revived. and vegeta just kills him. WATCH ALL OF THE DB SERIES BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS AND KNOW THE STORYLINE!!
yeah...ur right it is from GT...I downloaded that clip 2

SSJKarma

09-23-2002, 05:58 PM

have you ever read what i said ?
i said that i didn't know GT but only blimps of it.
i said that you should tell me if you saw that in any DB and you did so now i can say that it's not from AF or anything like that !

why did you yell at me ?
i never said that it wasn't in GT and had absolutely in AF, no i just said that i found a movie sying it is in AF. you tell me it's in GT, fine now i can rename the movie. DON'T YELL AT ME !

princevegetam

09-23-2002, 06:21 PM

lol, i'm sorry if i hurt your feelings, i was just trying to make sure you get my point.

PARADISE-X

09-23-2002, 06:23 PM

Yugi

09-24-2002, 04:22 AM

I have never seen gt but have heard of it and it is a sequel. i only see dbz from dvd and toonami.

Dan Hibiki

09-24-2002, 07:58 AM

DBAF = nonexistent rumor started by fan with drawing
Super Level 4 = name I shall use to refer to that level

My logic to call it Super Level 4 is perfect. Super Level 4 has none of the characteristics of being a Super Saiyan except for the yellow ki.

PARADISE-X

09-24-2002, 08:10 AM

U forgot the part that his hairy like an animal...(god the new version is taking too much time to download...I which I had high speed) :(

Nantuko Joe

09-24-2002, 08:46 AM

Oh man...you guys got me started....Dan...cover your ears...

I'm going to explain this calmly...

<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>There is no Dragonball AF! There is no SSJ5! SSJ4 is not a SUPER Saiya-jin level.</span>

SUPER Saiya-jin Levels are characterized by Green Eyes and blonde hair. Does this "Super" Saiya-jin 4 form have green eyes and blonde hair? No. It has Black Hair and reddish/pink fur, and I think red eyes. Therefore, it is not a "super" saiya-jin level.

This "super" saiya-jin 4 is merely a power-up from the Golden Ozourou form.

But since DBGT doesn't officially exist, there's no point in talking about it.

Back in Japan, Akira Toriyama wrote one gigantic manga, and he titled it "Dragonball". When they made it into the anime, he cut it in half. The first half remained the title "Dragonball". This was the series that covered everything from the first manga volume all the way up to the point prior to Radditsu's arrival on earth. The section that covers Radditsu's arrival all the way to the death of Kid Buu is titled "Dragonball Z" for the anime.

Now, Dragonball GT is not an official series. No manga was ever written for GT, so it therefore does not exist. GT was an anime-only series created by some corporate assholes who wanted to cash in on the Dragonball craze. Toriyama took a very, very small part in it (like art director or something), but that was it. Dragonball GT does not exist, because there is no manga. If you can find me a Dragonball GT manga, then I'll eat my underwear.

Next, this "Dragonball AF" thing doesn't exist either. You know how you'd go to a DBZ site and there'd sometimes be a section called "Fan Fiction" and "Fan Art"? Stuff that someone just made up? That is what this "DBAF" thing is. In Japan, someone wrote up a fan-manga and titled it "Dragonball AF". He also drew a picture of what looks like SSJ3 Goku with reddish-skin and white hair. That is merely fan-art. Therefore, it is not a valad Dragonball series. It may EXIST in someone's basement or computer or something, but not on the official level.

That is why there are so many pictures of these "Hyper Gotenks" and "SSJ3 Vegeta" and "SSJ5 Goku" and "SSJ7 Brolly". Other ppl are drawing up their own characters and some morons are like "Oh wow! That must be SSJ5 Goku from DBAF". So please, enough with this Dragonball AF.

PARADISE-X

09-24-2002, 09:00 AM

I dont belive in "AF"...I just told I find a picture ,thats all.Tell me more of the GT series...Maybe thats y sum fans were pissed of the GT series

DarkOmega

09-24-2002, 09:57 AM

Could someone plz tell me when GT will come out in english? :)

DarkOmega

09-24-2002, 09:58 AM

Could someone plz tell me when GT will come out in english? :)

DarkOmega

09-24-2002, 09:59 AM

sorry about that comp is gay

princevegetam

09-24-2002, 02:14 PM

not really nankuto, i know all levels beyond SSJ3 is screwed up and abnormal, but you have to realize that SSJ4 is OFFICIALLY considered a level of SSJ. that description you gave of SSJ is a bit opininated and not exactly the truth. it's mixed up with your angered emotions of how DBGT dissapointed you. but everyone just remember, SSJ4 IS AN OFFICIAL LEVEL of SSJ. it's just ppl like nankuto and dan don't like it, cause it's abnormal compared to the DBZ SSJ levels and not created by Akira Toriyama. so, don't go around spreading false info.

p.s. a message from concerned children's advertisers(lol)

Dan Hibiki

09-24-2002, 04:11 PM

:angry: I'm not spreading false info. I shall say this very simply to you...

Akira Toriyama NO make DBGT. NO make. Akira Toriyama make DB? YES make. DB official? YES. DBZ, based on latter part of DB manga official? YES.

Akira Toriyama make DBGT? NO make. NOT official.

Transformation shown in DBGT Bebi Saga official Super Saiyan form? NO Super Saiyan form. Why? No yellow eyes. No gold hair. Not Super Saiyan. Super LEVEL.

For something to be truly official, and canon to the storyline of DB/DBZ, it must be made by Akira Toriyama. The movies CAN'T, absolutely CAN'T fit into the storyline (people are supposed to be dead all over the place in those), and DBGT CAN'T fit into the storyline either. Thusly DBGT is NOT an official part of the DB/DBZ storyline.

SSJKarma

09-24-2002, 05:22 PM

Dan, Nantuko...
as you probably know, Dragonball has been sold to someone else, so that MAKE THE NEW CREATOR the original creator. so SSJ4 is OFFICIAL cause akira isn't the official creator anymore.

that is our point !
like, i said. if you buyed some anime franchise then you wouldn't make the serie just like the old creator, you weould change it to your liking. that is exactly why SSJ4 is different from akira's vision cause it is not him who created it ! and you can't deny that fact. it is official cause akira has no right anymore !

Yugi

09-24-2002, 11:27 PM

ive seen up to kid buu on dvd and on toonami we are on ss3 goku tomorrow i think. gotenks looks awesome!!!!!
and on toonami they're verry close to the end of dbz 30 something episodes. up to veggito on toonami this time around

Yugi

09-24-2002, 11:30 PM

It wont be long for gt in english even though its a complete crap out like the live action movie it is a db series so i will watch it on toonami

Dan Hibiki

09-25-2002, 04:03 AM

Dan, Nantuko...
as you probably know, Dragonball has been sold to someone else, so that MAKE THE NEW CREATOR the original creator. so SSJ4 is OFFICIAL cause akira isn't the official creator anymore.
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Did Akira make it in the first place?? YES HE DID! THAT MAKES HIM THE ORIGINAL CREATOR, AND HE SHALL ALWAYS BE THE ORIGINAL CREATOR!

Nantuko Joe

09-25-2002, 04:58 AM

Listen, this is what I'm saying.

Because the series Dragonball and Dragonball Z were based on a manga, they were official. Toriyama wrote this manga, and then created an anime series based upon it.

Now, these corporates came along and made a new cartoon based on Dragonball Z, and released it to the public.

However, no one ever wrote a set of manga volumes that pertains to GT. It was ANIME ONLY. Now, during the course of DBZ, there are many ANIME ONLY events that do not take place in the manga. Movies #1-13 and the Garlic Jr. Saga do not appear in any manga volume, and therefore never officially happened, for they are ANIME ONLY.

So basically, the entire GT series is one huge ANIME ONLY event. There is no manga. What GT is is a FAN-ANIME. In other words, fans of the show made up their own story and characters, and got it animated and broadcast on TV.

So if this were the case, and you guys are saying GT is official, that means that if I draw up a fan-manga and write my own fan-fiction and introduce it into the media mainstream, that this is offical, right?

Toriyama never SOLD the rights to TOEI to make GT.

Therefore, GT is not a valid, official series, and therefore, this SSJ4 form never happened.

IF, and I'm using IF just as an example, but If Toriyama were to draw up a new manga for a new DBZ series, I'm 99.9% sure that he would have it take place immediately after DBZ and not GT.

And the only reason this information is not getting through your thick skulls is because you guys are so determined to prove me and Dan wrong, and believe so much that you guys are the correct ones here, that you can't listen to reason.

QUIET_KILLER

09-25-2002, 01:47 PM

[quote:post_uid3="Nantuko Joe"]Listen, this is what I'm saying.

Because the series Dragonball and Dragonball Z were based on a manga, they were official. Toriyama wrote this manga, and then created an anime series based upon it.

Now, these corporates came along and made a new cartoon based on Dragonball Z, and released it to the public.

However, no one ever wrote a set of manga volumes that pertains to GT. It was ANIME ONLY. Now, during the course of DBZ, there are many ANIME ONLY events that do not take place in the manga. Movies #1-13 and the Garlic Jr. Saga do not appear in any manga volume, and therefore never officially happened, for they are ANIME ONLY.

So basically, the entire GT series is one huge ANIME ONLY event. There is no manga. What GT is is a FAN-ANIME. In other words, fans of the show made up their own story and characters, and got it animated and broadcast on TV.

So if this were the case, and you guys are saying GT is official, that means that if I draw up a fan-manga and write my own fan-fiction and introduce it into the media mainstream, that this is offical, right?

Toriyama never SOLD the rights to TOEI to make GT.

Therefore, GT is not a valid, official series, and therefore, this SSJ4 form never happened.

[b:post_uid3]IF[/b:post_uid3], and I'm using IF just as an example, but If Toriyama were to draw up a new manga for a new DBZ series, I'm 99.9% sure that he would have it take place immediately after DBZ and not GT.

And the only reason this information is not getting through your thick skulls is because you guys are so determined to prove me and Dan wrong, and believe so much that you guys are the correct ones here, that you can't listen to reason.[/quote:post_uid3]
Wow huge accurate and D@ng true to the Bone also I have to admit I am wit my pal Joe here :withstupid: same for mista hibiki :withstupid: :biggrin:

princevegetam

09-25-2002, 02:01 PM

PARADISE-X

09-25-2002, 05:40 PM

SSJKarma

09-25-2002, 06:10 PM

as loing as i am concern with it nantuko...

YOU CAN'T DENY THE FACT THAT GT EXIST
nor will you deny those #1-13 movies !
when they have done those Gundam universe, have you said that they weren't true because they didn't reattach to the real story ? no, why ? because they were made and they were real, so is GT. it has been made and if you ask toei, they will not refer to SAIYEN LEVEL 4, they will refer to SUPER saiyen level 4. now that is the real answer, the SSJ4 exist cause TOEI created it that way and if you ask they will refer to it as SSJ4.

now if you want to argue on that it is simply because you hate GT as much as i do !
i really love those movies on DBZ and i know they don't attach to the story but i know they are DBZ and they are REAL !

princevegetam

09-25-2002, 06:17 PM

my points exactly.

Yugi

09-25-2002, 11:48 PM

Now aren't you guys happy i made this so you guys could get all this out. :D

Yugi

09-25-2002, 11:53 PM

karma about what you said about gundum and dbz that they arent true i got another anime series to talk about ZOIDS.
the second series ive seen is good but ive never seen the first episode of it. since all the old characters sre in it shouldn't it be a parrallel universe like g gundam?

Nantuko Joe

09-26-2002, 07:49 AM

i'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, it's the truth. you guys are depicting DBGT the same way as DBAF, which is not true. DBGT is not a fan anime. it was created by the same ppl who worked along side akira during the making of dbz. the only difference is that the one man, akira, didn't have anything to do with this (i'm talking about anime). akira got tired of making the db series, so he passed on the work to his colleagues. not fans.

DBGT is simply a fan-anime that was created by a corporation and got the approval of a distressed Akira Toriyama simply because he was growing aggrivated of the ppl complaining to him to bring back DBGT.

And these are NOT the same ppl who worked alongside Toriyama, this is a totally different company.

Answer me this question ...do u like the Gt series...If yes Y

no.

as loing as i am concern with it nantuko...

YOU CAN'T DENY THE FACT THAT GT EXIST
nor will you deny those #1-13 movies !
when they have done those Gundam universe, have you said that they weren't true because they didn't reattach to the real story ? no, why ? because they were made and they were real, so is GT. it has been made and if you ask toei, they will not refer to SAIYEN LEVEL 4, they will refer to SUPER saiyen level 4. now that is the real answer, the SSJ4 exist cause TOEI created it that way and if you ask they will refer to it as SSJ4.

now if you want to argue on that it is simply because you hate GT as much as i do !
i really love those movies on DBZ and i know they don't attach to the story but i know they are DBZ and they are REAL !

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Sighs and massages forehead headache in frustration</span>

Not once, Karma, not once did I say taht they didn't EXIST. Of course they EXIST, they are written on paper, they are on video tapes across the world. I never said that GT didn't EXIST. I said that events in GT didn't officially OCCUR. What I am trying to say is that they DID NOT OFFICIALLY HAPPEN IN THE DRAGONBALL HISTORY. If you go through every single movie, you will be able to find at least one reason why the movie couldn't have happened in the DBZ timeline. And I have one huge general fact that proves this.

Find me a time during either the manga or the anime when a character even mentions a character from the movies. Not once does Furiza mention his brother Kooler. Not once does anyone mention Garlic Jr., Dr. Wheelo, Tares, Lord Slug, Brolly, Janemba, Hiredugarn, or Bojack. Not once. The movies were created just to integrate new and potentially money-making characters into the DBZ genre. However, they do not fit into the DBZ timeline, and you therefore cannot say that they actually happened. They EXIST, but they did not OCCUR.

I do not know about Gundam Wing, because I do not watch the show. Sure, the events in the movies (and in this case, GT)occurred, but not in the official, respective timelines. They occurred in the movie timeline. Lemme tell you why the DBZ movies never could have happened:

Movie #1: Return My Gohan! (Deadzone). It could not have occurred because in the movie, Kuririn already knew who Gohan was. However, in the first episode of DBZ, when they all go to Kamesennin's island, Kuririn, Yamucha, and Buruma have no idea who Gohan was, and was surprised that he was Goku's son. Therfore, inconsistency prevents the events from actually occuring.

Movie #2: The World's Strongest Warrior. It could not have occurred because the only point in time where Goku and Piccolo were alive and Gohan was still a kid was during the training period preparing for the arrival of the androids. However, Goku was already able to go SSJ during this period of time, and surely would have used it during the movie. However, he does not, and the first mention of Goku going SSJ in a movie is during Movie #4.

Movie #3: Ultimate Decisive Battle for Earth (Tree of Might). It could not have happened for two reasons. Reason #1: Gohan had a tail in the movie. However, in the DBZ timeline, Gohan's tail was removed by Piccolo in the wilderness. Reason #2: Tares states Piccolo's power level at 18,000. When he was killed by Nappa, he had a power level of around 2,000. When he was wished back and absorbed Nail, his pl was around 800,000. Therefore, at no point in time does he have a pl of 18,000.

Movie #4: Super Saiya-jin Goku (Lord Slug). First off, Gohan appears with Haiya-dragon (Icarus) in the beginning of the movie. Now, since Movie #3 didn't exist, that means that Haiya-dragon doesn't exist. Since Haiya dragon doesn't exist, Movie #4 didn't occur. Also, Goku doesn't actually go SSJ in the movie.

Movie #5: The Best of Strongest Versus Strongest. In the movie, I believe Kooler finds out that Furiza was killed the day after it happens, and goes to earth to kill Goku. Kamesennin states that Goku returned from Namek even stronger than before (this must be false, because Goku didn't return from Namek for like 3 years.) Therefore, the movie couldn't have happened. Plus, there was never any mention of Kooler in the normal timeline, and Haiya-dragon appears in the movie, further disproving the movie's occurance.

Movie #6: Clash!! 10,000,000 Power Warriors!. Since the first Kooler Movie could not have occurred, a movie that features him is therefore proven untrue.

Movie #7: Utmost Limits of Battle! The three Super Saiya-jin. It is stated in the normal DBZ timeline that during DBZ, Dr. Gero only made five androids (#16, #17, #18, #19, and an android body for himself, and he became #20). The utter fact that the movie contains androids #13, #14, and #15 further disproves the movie's occurrance, because there was also no point in time where the movie could have occurred, because of Cell, Goku dying, etc.

Movie #8: Burnout! Fierce Fight, Violent Fight, Super-Exciting Fight! Once again, there was no point in time where Mirai no Trunks was in the present and Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan were able to all go SSJ when Cell was not present and Goku was still alive.

Movie #9: The Galaxy's in Danger! The Super-Awesome Guy!. The makers of this movie tried real hard to fit this into the timeline, but made a mistake. In the timeline, Mirai no Trunks left the morning after Cell was killed. But he is still alive in the movie, which could not have taken place the next day.

Movie #10: Dangerous Partners! Super-Warriors never rest!. This could not have occurred because the first Brolly movie could not have happened. Since Brolly was introduced in teh first movie, he could not have existed in a second.

Movie #11: Crushing Super-Warrior! I Am The Winner!. A third Brolly movie cannot occur when the first two could not have occured.

Movie #12: The Rebirth of Fusion! Goku and Vegeta! There was no point in time where both Goku and Vegeta were dead and not only in the afterlife, but not preoccupied with Buu.

Movie #13: Dragon Fist Explosion! If Goku Can't, Who Can?. Could not have occurred because I believe in the movie, Gohan went SSJ, but this could not have happened because during the Buu Saga, the Rou Dai Kaioshin told Gohan that by maxing out his potential power, he could not go SSj anymore.

Now, that takes care of why the movies could not have occurred. They still exist, they're still physical matter, but the events in the movies could not have offically, truly occurred. Now GT still EXISTS physically, but didn't truly OCCUR. We know this because there is no manga volumes for what happened in GT. Toriyama created Dragonball, but not GT. Therefore, GT didn't officially OCCUR in the Dragonball time line.

it has been made and if you ask toei, they will not refer to SAIYEN LEVEL 4, they will refer to SUPER saiyen level 4.

First off, it's Super Level 4, not Saiya-jin Level 4. And if I made a Super Saiya-jin 5.9784 1/2 in a fan-fiction, and then made a cartoon out of it, does that mean that it actually happened in the DBZ timeline? Sure, the creators will refer to it however they please, but that doesn't mean that it actually, officially occurred.

Dan Hibiki

09-26-2002, 08:16 AM

I feel compelled to make a drawing. You may all marvel at it tomorrow.

What Nantuko Joe says is absolutely true. DBZ movies don't officially happen in the canon storyline, and neither does DBGT. You can argue that it happens in a different time-dimension, like how Mirai Trunks comes from an alternate time dimension, of which there's an infinite amount, but it does not happen in the same dimension as the bulk of DBZ does.

Nantuko Joe

09-26-2002, 08:39 AM

Actually...that makes more sense than me saying they didn't occur at all. After all, it's just that the movie events didn't happen in the DBZ storyline. HOwever, the DBZ storyline events are evident in the movie. Good job, Dan

SBYRD5

09-26-2002, 09:28 AM

An interesting Debate on offical DBZ anime an none offical DBGT anime. I'd expect no less if Joe came back. :laugh:

princevegetam

09-26-2002, 01:19 PM

####, no one said that just cause there wasn't a manga made for it, doesn't mean it's not official. it is damn official, it is made by the same ppl who work alongside with akira, and it is made by the same company, you guys are just denying it's official existence cause it wasn't made by akira.

SSJKarma

09-26-2002, 06:22 PM

nantuko:
the only thing that proves that the 13th movie can't be placed in the story isn't gohan going SSJ, cause he didn't ! he did HAD the golden aura, but never has his air or eyes changed colors !

but, this movie would only be placed at the total end of DBZ why, because vegeta saved peoples. and he only did at the end of the serie. but then you cannot put it there either. why ? because goku was training UBUU at that time. that's the only thing that proves that the 13th movie can't be placed in the story !

but like vegetam said. you can't deny that they are OIFFICIAL. not to you perhaps, but to most of the people and in REALITY they are. want the proof of that ?

go ask funimation or TOEI itslef. they will answer that GT is OFFICIAL and so are the movies ! and by the way, i reapeat myself again, if you ask them about SSJ4 they will refer to it has SUPER SAIYA-JIN 4 not SUPER LEVEL 4 !

i now will stop arguing until you ask them cause for my part it is untrue that this isn't all official. and i know i am right, cause i know that if i ask, they will tell me the same thing and also tell me that this is all official !

Nantuko Joe

09-27-2002, 10:02 AM

it is damn official, it is made by the same ppl who work alongside with akira, and it is made by the same company, you guys are just denying it's official existence cause it wasn't made by akira.

I already told you in that big ass post I made that I AM NOT DENYING ITS EXISTANCE. First off, GT WAS NOT MADE BY THE SAME PPL WHO WORKED ALONGSIDE AKIRA TORIYAMA. The company that made GT was a different company that produced Dragonball and Dragonball Z. That, plus the fact that there is no manga for GT, means that it did not officially occur IN THE DBZ TIMELINE.

nantuko:
the only thing that proves that the 13th movie can't be placed in the story isn't gohan going SSJ, cause he didn't ! he did HAD the golden aura, but never has his air or eyes changed colors !

but, this movie would only be placed at the total end of DBZ why, because vegeta saved peoples. and he only did at the end of the serie. but then you cannot put it there either. why ? because goku was training UBUU at that time. that's the only thing that proves that the 13th movie can't be placed in the story !

but like vegetam said. you can't deny that they are OIFFICIAL. not to you perhaps, but to most of the people and in REALITY they are. want the proof of that ?

go ask funimation or TOEI itslef. they will answer that GT is OFFICIAL and so are the movies ! and by the way, i reapeat myself again, if you ask them about SSJ4 they will refer to it has SUPER SAIYA-JIN 4 not SUPER LEVEL 4 !

i now will stop arguing until you ask them cause for my part it is untrue that this isn't all official. and i know i am right, cause i know that if i ask, they will tell me the same thing and also tell me that this is all official !

In that huge 27-page monster debate started by Tarkan, many of my points were not considered valid because Tarkan said that they did not appear in the manga. When Roll said something about Goku dying when he fell in the lava, Tarkan said that because that scene did not occur in the manga, but rather was an ANIME-ONLY scene, it did not OFFICIALLY OCCUR. When I mentioned Janemba's Bunkai Teleportation as a maneuver, he told me that it doesn't count because it was in a movie, and therefore was not in the manga, and therefore does not count. It did not OFFICIALLY OCCUR. When I mentioned the Trunks Special, he said that the Trunks Special did not occur in the manga, and therefore did not OFFICIALLY OCCUR.

Akira Toriyama wrote the Dragonball Manga Volumes. Everything that is in those volumes are what happened. If there is an event (i.e. a DBZ movie, the Garlic Jr Saga, etc) that was not mentioned in the manga, then it did not OFFICIALLY OCCUR IN THE NORMAL DBZ TIMELINE. Therefore, the movies, the Garlic Jr saga, the Afterlife Saga, and GT did not OFFICIALLY OCCUR IN THE NORMAL DBZ TIMELINE.

If you continue to insist that GT, SSJ4, etc, OFFICIALLY OCCURED because you THINK that the same guys who made GT were the ones who worked with Toriyama on Dragonball, then you can listen to Dan. If you INSIST that they happened, one could say that they happened in a different timeline than the normal timeline. Much like Cell came from a different future and Trunks came from a different future. Both of those futures happened on a different timeline. Therefore, that is why the Androids were stronger in the normal timeline than they were in Trunks' future (timeline). The timelines don't match up.

In this case, yes, GT really did occur. However, it occurred in a different timeline than the normal DBZ timeline, it occurred in a parallel universe or something. But it did NOT occur during the normal DBZ timeline.

I will bet you $100 that if Toriyama wrote a new Dragonball series, he would write it so it would occur immediately after Dragonball Z, and not after Dragonball GT.

princevegetam

09-27-2002, 01:07 PM

yes, it WAS made by the ppl who worked along akira toriyama. they were ppl from bird studio and worked on the dbz series. i did a 8 page report last year on akira toriyama, i have several sources that indicate so.

SSJKarma

09-27-2002, 04:43 PM

nantuko: what we are arguing about isn't the story of DBZ and how DBGT SHOULD attach to it ! we are arguing on the fact you say IT ISN'T OFFICIAL !

let me tell you this, it isn't because the story don't follow that it necessarly isn't official. like i said, ask the creators of DBGT and they will tell you that it is SSJ4 not SL4 and they will say that it is OFFICIAL !

example:
the gundam series...
they doesn't follow each other but still, they are officials

the TV show of X-men don't follow the same path as the comic books, but still. will you deny there officialness ?

Street fighter alpha don't follow the same path as regular SF, but still, will you deny that they are official ?

all those don't foloow each other but that don't mean they aren't official !
try an understand a little ! cause right now, i just think you don't even listen to me !

Dan Hibiki

09-28-2002, 07:41 AM

We seem to be talking two different kinds of, "official-ness," here.

Those movies and episodes are official for the ANIME, made official by Bird Studios. The main man Akira Toriyama wrote the Dragonball manga, and thusly those occurences in the anime and all of the manga are official by virtue of the creator himself doing it. The manga is far more official than the anime (events not happening in manga), the movies, and DBGT.

I only feel that Akira Toriyama's type of being official carries far more weight.

And a few points regarding those proofs you tried to use...

The Gundam series all follow the same storyline in the same timeline. Mobile Suit Gundam occured first, then Gundam 0083, and so on. After a certain event which I can't remember, the mode of counting the years was changed, explaining the different method of telling years between earlier Gundam series and series like Gundam Wing. Check major fan sites that list everything chronologically to check my facts there.

Once again different types of, "official-ness," here for X-Men. Does it officially exist because a major company made it? Yes. Is it AS official as those stories done by Marvel themselves? No.

Street Fighter in its entirety has had SO many retroactive changes to the storyline. I read a long-assed document a few months ago fitting every single Street Fighter game's story, and even a few other Capcom game's stories, together into one big story supported by Capcom themselves.

... and I am listening, and I am bringing up counter-points. Just because you present your own piece of an argument does not mean I will be persuaded.

princevegetam

09-28-2002, 11:23 AM

yes, that's what i meant.

Nantuko Joe

09-28-2002, 02:21 PM

yeah...I guess what dan said...

Yugi

09-28-2002, 08:08 PM

I love starting topics that have NOTHING TO DO WITH MY TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well i guess that was two harsh-NO IT WASNT shut up freakin shoulder angel! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

SSJKarma

09-28-2002, 11:27 PM

DAN: i really like the way you putted it. and i say, now you are talking the right way. so the SSJ4 does exist and is OFFICIAL so there IS a more then SSJ, USSJ, SSJ2, USSJ2, SSJ3. so can we agree that SSJ4 DO IS official and doe's exist !

if not then just try and tell me why you can't make it official cause it is official and it is a SSJ level as mentionned by the creators of DBGT.

as for gundam story lines !
go onto the OFFICIALS web sites, such as GUNDAMLOUNGE.com or something like this. and find out that GUNDAM WING is an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE then gundam 0078. by definition i think that means they aren't in the same story line ! same goes for GUNDAM X and GUNDAM GENERATION.

in the nutshell...
the only gundam that follow the story all together is really. Gundam 0079, 0080, 0081. there could be Gundam F71, but i am not sure of that. Gundam V is a sepparate thing for sure since it is 3 ship that forms the gundam and fight for the defense of earth !

try and attach the story of all those together. you'll find it very impossible to do cause they are in separate timeline and universe !

the worst thing is the name they have given to the ONE YEAR WAR (0079) who actually is 3 year, not one !

anyway, i'm all over with that debate. as i am a little short as argument and i have never been a great talker in those.

Liger Zero

09-29-2002, 12:54 AM

You can go to pogo and see pics of ssj4.

Nantuko Joe

09-29-2002, 02:38 PM

Listen, Karma, to what I am about to say. It may sound a little confusing.

I will now admit that DBGT and the DBZ movies are all official. However, they are on a different level of official as the series created by Akira Toriyama.

There is only one storyline-timeline: the one that is followed throughout the manga written by Toriyama. Now, along that line, there are many branches from that timeline. On these branches are Mirai no Trunks' future, Seru's (Cell's) future, etc. Now, although those are official--eg. they were created and approved--they are not directly part of the main DBZ storyline-timeline.

Now, GT and the movies are on the same level of officialness that the timeline branches are on. They were officially created and officially produced, but they do not occur on the normal DBZ timeline. Therefore, like Dan said, one might say that these events happened in a different dimension, a different timeline than the events of the main timeline. Much like Mirai no Trunks' future, these events contain/mention stuff that has already happened in the normal DBZ timeline, but the events in the DBZ timeline do not mention these branches.

As an example, I will use Movie #5, which was the first appearance of Kooler. During the movie, many references were made about the Saiya-jins, Goku's defeating Furiza, and Goku going Super Saiya-jin. However, nowhere in the DBZ timeline do any of the characters mention Kooler, the Kooler Tokusentai (Kooler's little band of warriors), or any of the events that happen in the movie. Therefore, the movie did not occur along the normal timeline, but rather on a branch off from that timeline.

Therefore, one could say that because the movie was made and produced, it is official. However, it is not as official as the manga created by Toriyama.

Therefore, the Super Saiya-jin 4 you are referring to is indeed official, but never took place during the normal DBZ timeline, and rather in another dimension, a universe parallel to the DBZ timeline.

princevegetam

09-29-2002, 05:01 PM

yes yes yes! you finally get it! that's what i've been trying to say!

mastaq

09-29-2002, 08:13 PM

Ok let me throw in my 2 cents and leae. DBGT was only made to promote/ market DB: Final Bout for the Playstation... ;)

SSJKarma

09-29-2002, 10:23 PM

anyway...
i was only trying to convince you that SSJ4 do exist and is relative to existing Super saiya-jin level. it was only to answer the question of the guy !

next:
i do agree that things in the movies do are not to be in the real story !
same example as you...
in the 5th movie, goku isn't able to transform at will. that's simply impossible.

1 - he is camping with some friends and his son ! (that couldn't have happenned, unless it was in the 3 years they had to train)
2 - at that time he was already able to go super whenever he wanted to !

the fact that cooler isn't mentionned in the manga isn't a proof that he doesn't exist ! Freeza did say that HIS RACE (meaning he was not alone in this universe) was stronger than any other race existing !

whatever wa in the mirai-no trunks future can be attach to the story, cause it can be placed at anywhere in the story line without modifiing anything ! same goes with the bardock special !

anyway, this debate is over with, since we all agreed on the big thing !

simple question:
if i foolow your reasoning about all that.
your saying that the TV show isn't as officials cause it isn't really what was written in the manga ? simple question !

mastaq

09-30-2002, 01:36 PM

I KNOW that SSJ4 does exist. But think about it. SSJ4 is a cross breed between oozaru and a normal saiya-jin. SSJ4 doesn't have the "traditional" blond hair and green eyes of a SSJ. So can you truly call SSJ4 a SSJ? ??? Yes, I know it officialy is.. But it's just weird to accept that fact though.. :(

Dan Hibiki

09-30-2002, 04:00 PM

I shall still call it Super Level 4, because of the greater amount of respect I give Akira Toriyama's work, and I happen to know that the form does not have most of the trademark Super Saiyan indicators.

princevegetam

09-30-2002, 05:14 PM

Ok let me throw in my 2 cents and leae. DBGT was only made to promote/ market DB: Final Bout for the Playstation... ;)
LMAO!! it's hardly likely that an entire series was made just to promote some playstation video game

Dan Hibiki

09-30-2002, 10:53 PM

Ever hear of Powerstone? There's an entire series of Powerstone anime episodes to promote that game. Also remember the ill-fated Super Mario Bros. cartoon from way back when? That was made to promote a game, too.

Nantuko Joe

10-01-2002, 05:28 AM

simple question:
if i foolow your reasoning about all that.
your saying that the TV show isn't as officials cause it isn't really what was written in the manga ? simple question !

The manga is slightly more official than the anime series, but the Japanese anime series is also more official than the English Dub Series. So, in retrospect, yes.

I shall still call it Super Level 4, because of the greater amount of respect I give Akira Toriyama's work, and I happen to know that the form does not have most of the trademark Super Saiyan indicators.

As Will I.

Also remember the ill-fated Super Mario Bros. cartoon from way back when? That was made to promote a game, too.

Yeah, I remember that show! And you remember those live-action bits starring that wrestler...what the hell was his name...oh yeah..Captain Lou Albano? That was the coolest show!

But, back to DBZ...

princevegetam

10-01-2002, 12:55 PM

mastaq

10-01-2002, 01:38 PM

I've proven my point... :)