Abortion - Laffo pie 69 wizard of oz monkeys!11!1 [Archive]

Angel-Eyes

10-07-2004, 04:55 PM

please read what I wrote.....I know its a very long post, and it might take some of your time, but I would really like to get my point across.

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http://mediax.muchosucko.com/movies/512-antiabortus.mov

*warning* disgusting abortion video *warning*

yeah, if you didnt notice, I am anti-abortion/pro-life

why?

well I like to think of life as a rollercoaster.
when the baby is conceived, the rollercoaster cart is placed at the top of the hill.

potential energy......I like to call it potential energy.

the rollercoaster cart has the potential energy to go down the hill extremely fast and go though loops and tunnels giving the people on the ride a wonderful experience.

or it could turn out to be the suckiest ride youve ever gone on, slow and miserable

same with a human

the baby has the potential energy of being born, raised in loving home, growning up, being an assortment of different occupations, having kids, and affecting the lives of billions of people just by existing.

or that baby could grow up in a bad home, have a terrible life, and end up commiting suicide...

WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE HUMAN WILL LIVE THEIR LIVES

WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO SNUFF OUT THE POTENTIAL ENERGY

just think.......would if george washington, einsein, abe lincoln, martin luther king jr, fidel castro, timothy Mcveih, karl marx, saddam hussein, osama binladen, lance armstrong, michael jordan, stalin, adolf hitler.....ect ect

if the the preceding had been aborted.......this world would have been a MUCH different place, partially good, and partially bad......WE HAVE NO IDEA

WHY TAKE THE CHANCE?

Edited By kester- on 1097193880

dominicankid098

10-07-2004, 05:02 PM

Abortion is just like snipers shooting down the innocent. It is murdering and it is wrong and so what if the society sucks? I rather live life than worry about living.

evilhadoken

10-07-2004, 05:11 PM

the way people have become today....its just sad. :cry:

SolidSnake76

10-07-2004, 05:28 PM

i'm pro-abortion.

-being against it is a violation of a woman's 4th amendmant rights of privacy. if they dont want the baby, thats thier business. not the gov't decision to decide what should happen to thier womb.

-i guessing some ofuthink its ok with an 11 year old giving birth. but they really, really aint ready.

-sometimes, like VF stated, it isnt the right time for a woman to be pregnant. if they aint ready, they dont need to have it.

-if they do go up for adoption, do they still need to be put through the pain of not being loved and such? moved from 1 foster home to another? being picked on for not having thier real parents around? plus, the irresponcible foster parents who wont feed, cover up or care about thier behinds. thats why some(or most) rely on crime and living off the streets to stay alive cause sum fool didnt guide thier ass.

abortion does have its good.

Angel-Eyes

10-07-2004, 05:36 PM

-if they do go up for adoption, do they still need to be put through the pain of not being loved and such? moved from 1 foster home to another? being picked on for not having thier real parents around? plus, the irresponcible foster parents who wont feed, cover up or care about thier behinds. thats why some(or most) rely on crime and living off the streets to stay alive cause sum fool didnt guide thier ass.

abortion does have its good.
so you say:

better off dead, than being in a bad position in life.

of course I feel sorry for all the kids that go though foster homes and have nobody to love them, but EVERY BABY THAT IS ABORTED WAS NOT NECESSARILY GONNA HAVE A CRAPPY LIFE!

I say: better off alive, even with a crappy life, than being dead/non existent.

Orlando0

10-07-2004, 05:51 PM

marvel911

10-07-2004, 06:44 PM

Abortion isnt necessary, just have the baby, then give it up for adoption, sure it might be tough but at least then you arent a murderer.

105-1091146135

10-07-2004, 07:12 PM

i agree... my opinion...som ppl are not fortunate enuff to have a baby!! n if youhav a chance thn dont give it up!! every1 pays for their mistakes.. ofcourse u regret it later in life but still killin (maybe a perfectly good baby) doesnt make things right.. som ppl have babies born without a part of their bodies formed its really sad =( n life is not all bout pain n sufferin!!! dont tell me u havent had ur times! everything settles in the end! dont blame the kid!! teens are the ones who cant think poop before doin anything....u have to be ready for the consequences!....babies are innocent til thy come in the world!! until thy strt seeing & experiencin things!!! seriously killin a perfectly innocent baby??? how much more cruel can
human beings get?

sry but i take this matter very seriously!

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 07:19 PM

well being a girl and all i'm against it. i don't think that theres any real reason by any child should be aborted. vf look at ur signature what does it say "I rather die on my feet, than live on my knees -- Emilliano Zapata" and yet ur telling people they shouldn't even try, and as for an 11 year old girl giving birth if she can't have the baby she shouldn't be messing around in situtations where she could get pregnant anyways. u do the crime u do the time thats how is and thats the same thing with having sex. u wanna mess around be ready to take responsiblity. as for it'll be born without love without so and so if youcan't honestly raise it theres many other choices that u can turn to, and no u don't have to wait till it's born u as the parent can start searching for parents before it's even born many well educated people and finically stable people sometimes unfortionately can't have kids, and r dying to have a ####orn baby so they can have the chance to be parents. so when ur saying it'll go through mulitple foster homes thats not true. most ####orns r adopted right away for there aren't many of those most kids who r moved from foster home to foster home r those that come into the system a bit older. yeah and u guys will probably say what about rape. y should any child have to pay for the crimes of their parent just because ur father was a brutal man who abused women doesn't mean you'll grow up to be like him many people who grow up in abusive homes usually break the cycle because they grow up having to protect those close to them or know themself first hand how it feels like to be abused. no child for any reason should be aborted. yes it's the womens body she can do what she wants with it she had a choice before she went and spread her legs too y take it out on someone who had no choice in how they were concived. and abortion not only kills the child but in a sense it also effects us emotionally u men might think whatever but us women function differently we at times have emotional probs and many women will tell u they don't care after they do it but inside sometimes they question what if. so abortion isn't really healthy for anyone. many women every year need emotional help after doing it. every child is born innocent pure done no wrong no reason to be punished for crimes made before their time.

Edited By girlNferno666 on 1097202197

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 07:19 PM

The Baby's Cry
By Tanya LeBlanc

It's early still, the month is one,
And my life has just begun.
I'm so small, don't have to hide,
I'm but a seed growing inside.
Four weeks later, the month is two,
I'm still small but a part of you.
You'll love me a lot, wait and see,
You'll be proud as proud can be.
Time has passed, the month is three,
Now, I'm someone you can see.
My hair is black, and my eyes are brown,
I'll be fun to have around.
Now, I'm gone, the month is five,
Mommy killed me, I'm no longer alive.
Abortion is the name they gave it,
They take your life before you live it.
I wanted to be born, the month is six,
but it's already done, it can't be fixed.
I guess my mommy didn't love me,
She went and just threw me away.
She'll never forget me,
Forever in her heart is where I'll stay.
I have a new home now, the month is seven,
Congratulations, Mommy,
Guess what, I'm in Heaven.
Mommy still carries around a frown,
Cause I'm in her memory, but not around.
You would have loved me, the month is eight,
but guess what, Mommy, it's too late.
Murdered by my mommy's hand,
I guess I'm too young to understand.
Goodbye, Mommy, the month is nine,
I could've been born, doing just fine.
Although I'm here in Heaven, I still cry,
Because of my mommy, I had to die.
Mommy, mommy, the year is one,
And my life could've just begun.
Mommy now the days have gone by, it's year two,
And I can almost tie my shoe.
Soon, I'll be three,
And you would've been too busy to mess with me.
A long time has passed, and the year is nine,
I would've been happy down there with you all mine.
Now look, Mom, it's year 18,
Oh how the time has passed,
I've become a woman,
And I wouldn't have been able to last.
Well, goodbye Mommy, it's time to go,
I love you, I guess you should know.
but Mommy I see and I know,
That always and forever in you heart I'll grow.
Forever in your memory I've stayed,
And I see now that you've paid.

mastergrim8

10-07-2004, 07:23 PM

poor bastards they all die. my mom had to abort a baby once. I'm sad to think of it:(

Angel-Eyes

10-07-2004, 07:23 PM

now how many of you pro-life people still want kerry to win.......

thats one of the main reasons I dont like kerry, cause he is pro-choice

kinda hypocrytical....

WestSideBlood

10-07-2004, 07:24 PM

It's hard to say unless you are in a situation where you have to make such a decision. Listen, let's say little vf goes out and does the deed with some lovely innocent (so he thinks) girl he has had his eye on for some time. Nine monthes later, he gets a call from said girl saying she will be giving him a son- thus the second thing she gave him, lets not forget the horrible rash he woke up with the morning after their sacred evening.

Vf is only fifteen, and the girl is only eleven, which means, they have no means of supporting this child. Oh, and Vf's parents are crack heads, so they won't be able to assume responsability for their childs actions.

This being said, is it still a good idea for her to have the child?

SnuggLes__

10-07-2004, 07:26 PM

This is sick and Unusual!!

Na im agaisnt abortion.. if you were never born then where the hell would you be... Life is a gift even if you born with an extra legs.. cant walk cant see... Cant say its easy..

Now lets say your the baby and your in this lil circle place nice and warm and your gettin all the food you want.. then a hole opens and your gettin rip out.. and the doctor looks at your ass and throws you in the garbage.. i dont think your feelin to good... and dont say babies dont feel poop cause they do. there alive when you kill there ass..

And the mothers. and wannabe but run away when they got to face it pops.. got to deal with this sh!t themselves.. cause its there own damn fault.. your bringing the baby in the world y the hell you gonna kill it. Its like killin me before i get to a strip bar.. i dont know if its gonna be sh!tty or tight, but i missed it cause i got shot.
I guess its wat you believe in.
O.O
This is where Religion steps
TOPIC CLOSED
lmao!
j/p

105-1091146135

10-07-2004, 07:27 PM

damn.. honestly it teared me up!! it happens everytime i hear it! its just too sad!

Angel-Eyes

10-07-2004, 07:28 PM

This being said, is it still a good idea for her to have the child?
sure.

that child could be the the first person to walk on mars

that child could be our greatest president

that child could find a cure for cancer

that child could also be a serial killer

you just cant make a value judgement like that without knowing the future.

Edited By kester- on 1097202523

coolkilla

10-07-2004, 07:30 PM

Getting an abortion and then having too live with that guilt for the rest of your life...When you have kids everytime you see them you start too think about that other kid that you murdered when you got an abortion...Is it really worth that guilt too just kill an unborn child?...I dont understand why people do this or even consider it...If my gf wouldve brought up getting an abortion...Dont get me wrong im no woman beater but I wouldve smacked the poop out of her...This is a bad thing too do but if they made it illegal then people would kill the child themselves right in their own home...So whatever they do its their decision we cannot make them change their minds but they will regret it when they are older...And for the rest of their lives...
EDIT:Even if a doctor told me that the child was not going too live when its born I would still want my gf too have the baby..Because there is a chance that it might live...

Edited By coolkilla on 1097202772

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 07:32 PM

she's 11 he's 15 they don't need to keep the child like i said she can easily enlist in an adoption plan which i forget the name for but it adopts the baby straight from the womb before it's even born and she'll go live with the family thats going to adopt her kid till it's born then they take the child and she goes back to living her life it's not hard a few signing of papers and a life is saved and changed it doesn't take much to give someone a chance

SnuggLes__

10-07-2004, 07:34 PM

i was aborted one time.. phew that was a close one... at least im with a great family...

Ooops... i MEAN APoption

Virtual Fighter

10-07-2004, 07:47 PM

I'm with Kester. It's stupid really. End the suffering before it starts? BAH! Excuses. Let it live and put it in adoption or something. Abortion? That's for wusses, losers and idiots. It's your fault if you have the baby.

Heck, it could live a good life even if you are the worst parents on earth.
excuse me? wusses losers and idiotS?

wait- you're talkinga bout the parents. yet you dont mention anywhere the welfare of the baby. its their

fault yes. but is it the baby's? should he or she live in a ife that was uncalled for and yet unloved

for a stupid mistake the parents made?

thats very selfish. not only do you continue to live a terrible life, but you bring another human being

with you.

fact: only 15% of all people put on adoption ever get adopted.

so, if you put it on adoption, there is a 15% chance he/she will ever find a home. there is an 85%

chance he or she will live a cold, parentless life.

people who never get adopted live terrible lives, nd if you get the luck of GETTING adopted, there is

still the possiblity of getting a terrible adopted parent, one who beats you, or even one who physically

exploits you.

of course I feel sorry for all the kids that go though foster homes and have nobody to love them,

but EVERY BABY THAT IS ABORTED WAS NOT NECESSARILY GONNA HAVE A CRAPPY LIFE!

have you ever heard of a multi millionare putting her baby up for abortion? no. but, what you do hear is

the countless teen pregnacies, unprotected births, and rapes.

what is the basis behind abortion? to give up a fetus you cant care for.

its not "because i have the money, have the time, have the space, and have the love, but just dont want

to give it."

its not like that.

fact: 38% of teen mothers give there baby up for abortion.

i didnt say millionare mothers, i said TEEN mothers. what this implys is under 18, unable to work and

still in school.

THAT IS NOT THE LIFE YOU WANT TO LIVE. thats not the life you want your child to live, eigther.

adoption? i already explained that.

kester, i do beleive you are a bible beleive, no?

so, you would beleive in the devine after life... right? think of it this way.

you can eigther bring the baby down to earth, or he/she can chill in heaven for a bit longer.

:plain:

Fact: 54% of all abortion-ees are under the federal poverty level.

that meens they're poor. now, when you're a poor teen mother, what other option is there? adoption? i

already explained that.

WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE HUMAN WILL LIVE THEIR LIVES

WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO SNUFF OUT THE POTENTIAL ENERGY

we have no idea? wrong. we do have SOME idea. if you're a poor teen mother with few family and no where

else to go, chances are your baby will be flipED UP.

fidel castro, timothy Mcveih, saddam hussein, osama binladen, stalin, adolf hitler

i dont know about you and you're crazy right winged theories, but i'd be fliping glad if those mass

murderers were never born.

NOTES I CONJECTURED:

kester, you're a bush supporter, right? i find it ironic how he's pro life, yet giving tax cuts and

buget breaks to the rich, making the poor poorer.

why is that ironic? because the poorer a society is, the more likley you are to have an abortion.

its been proven. here in east LA, the abortion level is like 1/7, which is pretty fliping high. (if you

couldnt deduce the info, east la = poor)

you see, kester, imo the reason you probably are pro-"life" is because you havent had these experiences.

you're not in the position of a potential abortionists. you're not a poor teen parent, and probably

you'll never have an experience remotly close to it. you dont have that bind, and you DONT know what

they've been going through. you cant judge, because you've never lived what they've gone through. i

have, i have some clsoe relationships with abortionists and i KNOw what they went through.

its not enough to talk about things you read about but to live the things you know about.

DarkKen

10-07-2004, 07:57 PM

it just depends on what situation the people are in...
that's all there is to it..
their situations.. their desire... their decision..
nothing els to say about it..

Virtual Fighter

10-07-2004, 08:05 PM

n if youhav a chance thn dont give it up!!
so what you're saying is if you can, do because others cant? thats retarded. i can, but im not. why?

because im only 15, i CANT SUPPORT A CHILD. and neigther can most abortionists.

ofcourse u regret it later in life
just like when you're child gets into drugs and joins a gang, you regret ever having him/her?

(maybe a perfectly good baby)
no, NOT a perfectly good baby, becasue as i have already explained, babies put up from abortion are from

the poorests areas, in the worst conditions. NOT a perfectly good baby.

babies are innocent til thy come in the world!! until thy strt seeing & experiencin things!!!

seriously killin a perfectly innocent baby???
yes, babies are innocent. but if you PUT them into a bad environment, which you do in cases of most

obortionists, they grow up with the experiences of the neigborhood and area. its not the baby's fault

you grow up in the ghetto and your mother has to be a prostatute to put cereal on the table. but hey, at

least you can spend all your time in the back room huffing paint, right?

:plain:

"I rather die on my feet, than live on my knees -- Emilliano Zapata"
omg that quote is about mexican pesants rising up against the spanish republic. NOT about baby's rasing

up against impossible odds.

and as for an 11 year old girl giving birth if she can't have the baby she shouldn't be messing around in situtations where she could get pregnant anyways.

u do the crime u do the time thats how is and thats the same thing with having sex. u wanna mess around

be ready to take responsiblity.
RAPE

its not the womens fault, nor the child. you're only 11, right? is it the baby's fault you cant sustain it? no.

most ####orns r adopted right away for there aren't many of those most kids who r moved from foster home

to foster home r those that come into the system a bit older.
posts some facts backing up that BS.

now how many of you pro-life people still want kerry to win.......

thats one of the main reasons I dont like kerry, cause he is pro-choice

kinda hypocrytical....

yeah, whats even more hypocritical is when you vote for a "pro-life" person who spends most of his time and money plotting on how to kill other people.

Vf is only fifteen, and the girl is only eleven, which means, they have no means of supporting this child. Oh, and Vf's parents are crack heads, so they won't be able to assume responsability for their childs actions.

its like you're reading into my memoirs! no wait-

that child could be the the first person to walk on mars

that child could be our greatest president

that child could find a cure for cancer

that child could also be a serial killer

that last option is bold for a reason.

but more then all of those, the baby will grow up being a poor low life living off the government going bad deeds done dirt cheap.

tell me the name of one great leader/person who was born in poor/ghetto environemts. cant do it, can you?

i would quote and rebutalize your posts but most are just "aww... its just a baby! how sad." or just redirect already posted and rebutalized by me, or just usless and retarded.

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 08:25 PM

natured or nertured is the question here ur being sterotypical when u say someone from the streets will grow up and be a ganster or thug on the streets because thats where they came from not true u get ur rapper straight out the hood never had a cent in his name and he's now a multi millionar yeah highly not likely to happen but it does not every child born in the ghetto ends up in the streets were all different we all see the world differently and that quote i don't care where i came from what it impiles is to try u rather try then live a life with choices made for u and that relates back to the baby issue of not giving them a chance and u don't know that they'll not want to live thats their choice and most who don't want to live commit suicide by themself no need to help them out but thats up to them wether they live or not no one should have the power to rob another of life and u think i don't knowbecause i come from a good neighbor hood and stuff like that i worked for everything i got from nothing i came from nothing like everyone else and yes i know what it's like to come into close contact with abortion my sister nearly made that choice once i didn't let her my neice is the best mistake my sister ever made and it doesn't change anything some school nights i'd have to stay up till 2 am because she's crying and my sister stressed out tired of her crying but every time i look at my neice i'm glad that she's there and things weren't always all good but being a parent has it's rewards it's not an easy job but it has it's ups and downs just like life so don't tell me i don't know how it's like to come from a ghetto i came from a place thats worse then what u guys call the ghetto no stores no electricity no running water to a country i didn't speak single word of the language and i'm doing fine u live u learn u make ends meet

coolkilla

10-07-2004, 08:27 PM

Vf abortion has nothing too do with being poor...Some teen mothers that come from good wealthy families still do have abortions..Are you saying that you are against a rich person having an abortion but you are not against a poor person having an abortion?..isnt it still the same thing...Arent they both still killing a human being...If you cant give that child a good life then you put it up for adoption just so it can have a chance too live its life!...When the child is 18 he is able too leave those adoption agencies so he can start his/her own life..THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IT IS NOT RIGHT TOO ABORT A CHILD JUST BECAUSE YOU CANT SUPPORT IT SIMPLY FIND A FAMILY FOR THE CHILD BEFORE YOU HAVE IT
-END OF STORY-

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 08:38 PM

u want proff of how many parents of waiting for a ####orn baby to take home u have a whole search eangine of it go ahead and search all u want i'm sure theres over thousands waiting to take home a baby be my guess to search all u want :P vf :P thoustands upond thousands :P no need for abortion

http://adoptionnetwork.com/waitingfamilies/?gcid=C13083x019

Virtual Fighter

10-07-2004, 08:51 PM

here ur being sterotypical
no, im being factual. fact is, if you're from a poor neigbhorhood, you're life'll suck more. i know this, i know it because i've experience it.

when u say someone from the streets will grow up and be a ganster or thug on the streets because thats where they came from not true u get ur rapper straight out the hood never had a cent in his name and he's now a multi millionar yeah highly not likely
note, you say the word rapepr. so the flip what? rapping now days is so text book, all you gotta do is say bitches, hoe, and "got shot 9 times" to make a selling record. if you were to say "some of the most brilliant phycologists come from ghetto neighbor hoods" okay, now you have a point. but you dont. you just have a rapper who made it. if that rapper were dead (which he might just be in a while, since rapeprs do promote violence in thier lyrics) the world would be the same place. the only rapeprs i know who made a difference were public enemy. and those are the one who "died on their feet" instead of all the others who are gonna "live on their knees" since you insisted in bringing an outside nonrelative quote into this.

to happen but it does not every child born in the ghetto ends up in the streets were all different we all see the world differently and that quote i don't care where i came from what it impiles is to try u rather try then live a life with choices made for u and that relates back to the baby issue of not giving them a chance and u don't know that they'll not want to live thats their choice and most who don't want to live commit suicide by themself no need to help them out but thats up to them wether they live or not no one should have the power to rob another of life and u think i don't knowbecause i come from a good neighbor hood and stuff like that i worked for everything i got from nothing i came from nothing like everyone else and yes i know what it's like to come into close contact with abortion my sister nearly made that choice once i didn't let her my neice is the best mistake my sister ever made and it doesn't change anything some school nights i'd have to stay up till 2 am because she's crying and my sister stressed out tired of her crying but every time i look at my neice i'm glad that she's there and things weren't always all good but being a parent has it's rewards it's not an easy job but it has it's ups and downs just like life so don't tell me i don't know how it's like to come from a ghetto i came from a place thats worse then what u guys call the ghetto no stores no electricity no running water to a country i didn't speak single word of the language and i'm doing fine u live u learn u make ends meet

okay, this one time i went to the store and i was like buying some cheetos, and i like payed the guy. me and my frreinds, we like were chilling for hours, just talkign about stuff we've beent hrough and stuff. my freind had to go home, so we did. we went home and started playing nintendo. my freind robert kicked my ass at tony hawk! i later found out it was because he put in a cheet code. we then ate pizza and we went to sleep. when i got up for school the next day, i put on my clothes and i was out the door. i turned in my homework, which was kinda hard.

hmm... i notice that had little to do with my argument and was neigther here nor there... im gonna try not to burst out into stories that have nothing to do with the topic...

maybe you should follow my lead.

Vf abortion has nothing too do with being poor...Some teen mothers that come from good wealthy families still do have abortions..Are you saying that you are against a rich person having an abortion but you are not against a poor person having an abortion?
yes, i am against that. becasue those who are rich are just lazy mother flipers living off their parents and flip but dont want children. they're not in a crisis, they can support a child but just dont want to. dont get me started on the rich.

for adoption just so it can have a chance too live its life!
didnt i just fliping go through this?! i already stated reasons WHY adoption isnt this miricle option you people deam it to be. read my posts, and read them more carefully next time, you might learn why you're wrong.

...When the child is 18 he is able too leave those adoption agencies so he can start his/her own life..
and work at burger king for minnimum waige, go home to his appertment for the holydays, have few freinds and very few people that love him/her. why? because he/her have NO family, NO money, and NO where to go. do you still think adoption is such a great thing?

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IT IS NOT RIGHT TOO ABORT A CHILD JUST BECAUSE YOU CANT SUPPORT IT SIMPLY FIND A FAMILY FOR THE CHILD BEFORE YOU HAVE IT
oh yes, "find" one. liekt hey just come out of thin mother fliping air?

-END OF STORY-
oh yeah, you totally beat me, jackass. -_-'
is it just me or is this what people say when they realize they are too dumb to continue debating?

u want proff of how many parents of waiting for a ####orn baby to take home u have a whole search eangine of it go ahead and search all u want i'm sure theres over thousands waiting to take home a baby be my guess to search all u want :P vf :P thoustands upond thousands :P no need for abortion
do you know how long on average it takes to adopt? 5 years. 5 years of filling out paper work and going through lawyers.

i saw a story on 20/20 about a family who waited 13 fliping years to get their adopted child. 13 YEARS! the dude was fliping 17 by the time the papers went through.

yes, there are "thousands upon thousands". but think... how many want YOU? are they looking for a child, or are they looking for a child based on hight, weight, race, age, and so on. because i've seen a documentary stating that white children get adopted quicker then minoritys. now, think which race is the richest. white people, no? now, think which economic demographic has more abortions. minorities, no? now, if we were all to give them up for addoption, there would be many more minority children then white children, where the children are on the top of the list.

not only that, but just how there are "thousands of thousands" of applicable parents, there is (as stated in the census 94,000 children needing a home. now, if we were all to give up abortions, (there is 1,200,000 fetuses aborted every year) the number would be 1,294,000 children waiting for lets say- 10,000 parents to give them a look.

thats a 12:1 ratio, there are 12 children waiting for adoption for ever 1 person looking to adopt.

still think we all have a place to go to when we are put into adoption?

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 09:02 PM

umm vf some families take home more then one :P so it doesn't matter if it doesn't add up a family consist of more then one child per family and as for minorities being wanted less thats not true for some families intentionally want a white baby but after spending time with a black or hispanic baby get attached so minority babies do get adopted just as much

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 09:04 PM

and as for the time consumming of taking up to 5 years and stuff not really it all depends on what agencey u go through and stuff and thats y u start before the babys even born and while the paper works being finalized the baby or kid thats being adopted is already living with their adopted parents so ur 5 year statment doesn't really matter yes adoption papers take 5 years to complete but during the process of it the kids already living a good life with the adopted family

Virtual Fighter

10-07-2004, 09:09 PM

so it doesn't matter if it doesn't add up a family consist of more then one child per family and as for minorities being wanted less thats not true for some families intentionally want a white baby but after spending time with a black or hispanic baby get attached so minority babies do get adopted just as much
oh REALLY? show me some articals, or proof. because seems to me you are just reporting what you THINK is what is happening and not on what you know.

and as for the time consumming of taking up to 5 years and stuff not really it all depends on what agencey u go through and stuff and thats y u start before the babys even born and while the paper works being finalized the baby or kid thats being adopted is already living with their adopted parents so ur 5 year statment doesn't really matter yes adoption papers take 5 years to complete but during the process of it the kids already living a good life with the adopted family

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. you CANNOT live with someone before they legally adopt you. you CANNOT fill out an addoption for for a person who is not born yet.

PLEASE, quit making up facts and start giving some PROOF.

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 11:51 PM

vf i know more about this then u ur what some 15 year old thinking u know what ur talking about i know what i'm talking about all u need for them to legally live with u is the birth parents signature on a few documents as for the adoption to be finalized that might take time to be processed to show that the child is now a part of the family and stuff so they can be claimed under the new parents insurance and all that other stuff but thats about it so yes the adoption won't be finalized for a while but legally with the birth parents signature on the cusdity papers they're allowed to live with the adopted parents

girlNferno666

10-07-2004, 11:52 PM

and the only one making up stuff as they go along is u no where have u posted up any links or anything just a bunch of stuffutyped up back ur ur proof with more then ur typing vf and don't say u copied stuff i want to know where u got it from just like u want to know where i get everything i read from so give me some ofur proof too or stop ur bsing with me too i aint got time for ur bs poop :p so stop wasting my time and everyone elses that is aint abortion

--(-

10-08-2004, 12:14 AM

limbei

10-08-2004, 05:46 AM

I am a strong supporter of prolife activities. Man can never accomplish God's will by their actions 100% succesfully and never will...
Many experts believe that abortions have evolved a long way from the sacrificial rituals. The spilling of innocent blood becoming increasingly widespread may be reason for the increasing influence of the Paganistic Movements. In any case, this is bad...
I believe an embryo once formed is the smallest form of living materials with the capability to specialise into Humans. Hence, they should have equal rights as any ofus, yes even with the woman's 4th amendmant rights of privacy as stated by SolidSnake76. We have not attributed less rights to mentally handicapped ind. hence why should embryo have not rights to live their own life?
Even if the situations are very harsh on the parents, many believe that abortions should be avoided so as not to destroy a sacred life so easily. Instead, the best alternative is to give the child up for abortion.
If we allow abortion, can anyone be responsible if future generations have abortions as commonly as divorce cases are presently?

Virtual Fighter

10-08-2004, 08:25 AM

Instead, the best alternative is to give the child up for abortion.

you're damn right.

ur what some 15 year old thinking u know what ur talking about
so? so what if im 15? i sure as hell know alot more then most people, and as i have stated before, i know about this subbject. i have close relations with abortionists, AND i know my research. i've taken this subject 3 years in a row as my debate team project, and won every debate. i KNOW my facts, and i know them well.

ill give you the title of a book which i memoriezed most of my statistics from:

"Double sided blade: abortion in america" by david lopez
"the abortion debate" by doress vinez.
and i forgot who wrote it, but it was called "the hsitory of abortion"

that might take time
like 5 years?

did you know that legally, you can invite the adoptee for a visit to your house. but, if you take him or her out of the try county area, like if you wanna go to sea world, but you live in LA and its in san diego, you lose the chance to federally adopt the child.

i saw this story in 20/20, exactly like this. the parents have been filling out papers and such for 2 years already. they invited the child for his first visit, and they took him to sea world. they lost the chance to adopt him because they took him out of the try county area.

its NOT as easy as you think it is. i knwo this for a fact, my cousin adopted. yes, adopted succsessfully, but it took her 4 years to find a child, measure it up to her expectations (which was fliped up) and fill out forms.

oh, and next time try to make your post more grammer effective, because im having a VERY hard time reading/analyzing your posts.

imbei, you're post was alright. it gave good points! it gave a good outlook on life.

buT, not everyone is like you. not eveyone loves their children, and not everyone will care for them. not EVERYONE CAN care for them.

picture this:

you grw up in the ghetto all your life, dropped out of college. your father beat you as a child so you are violent twords men. the only man you really love is your boy freind, and wht better time to prove it! he inpregnates you. you have no money, no job, no education, and the only thing you have is your boy freind. you give him the news! two days later he is in another state, in an undiscloed location.

not only that, but you figure out your baby is a boy. its the first try mester, what should you do?

a) put it up for adoption. you just know it'll get adopted quickly. (like in his first 15 years of life)
b) live with it, and ruin both his life and yours.
c) dump it in a dumpster. no one has to know.
d) abort is before it is ever bon, before it has a chance to experience your life and your problems, and before you ruin yours even worse.

i would choose D. you KNOW life is gonna be rough, and you KNOW it'll be even rougher on you. you have read up on abortion. no pain on the baby's life, and it is before the baby has permanent nerves and before the brain has fully developed. it is not an official human yet, it is a fetus. this is not killing the president here, this is giving the baby back before you and your terrible world currupts him even more.

for many people, this IS the only way out. im not saying it's easy, eigther. its really fliping hard on you. but i think, if it was up to me i would rather let me suffer a bit then let the aby suffer alot.

Saijin_Ryu

10-08-2004, 09:16 AM

Seriously, i cant believe some of you are so opinionated about abortion,

some of you are what 12-14, and even tho discussing between yourselfs is nice, but whats the point?

None of you know all the technacalities that would come with having a child aborted..

So your just rambling on things you have little substance for.. basically smart rambling.

Im not trying to stop this nice parade ofunimportant discussion, but would'nt it be nicer to talk about games/exc..

LoL, aportion, you kids..

--(-

10-08-2004, 09:22 AM

^^ obviously this topic is uncomprehendable for him.

Saijin_Ryu

10-08-2004, 09:32 AM

^^ obviously, you lot know nothing of this subject, and it can be VERY personal to some people..

oh and shhhh..

blanka09

10-08-2004, 11:43 AM

Well, here's how I see it. Abortion is a quite unhealthy practice and it's very dangerous for the woman performing it. And as VF would say.. I too know the ropes of this so-called termination process... and from what I can say, it's not a very wise choice to go with. Too many things could go wrong from just one abortion.

but does that mean I want a bill passed by the legislature that calls for every doctor, nurse or hospital in general that practices abortion to be closed down and members put in jail?? I don't think so.

Everyone has his/her own reasons for doing one thing or the other. You can't actually say why a girl would want this fate for herself.. but I believe every action isn't without reason. As AND1 put, it might be the fear of having to race the child.. or the prospects of being alone.. or one reason or another that might cause a girl to perform this act. However stupid and unreasonable her reasons are, I believe it's up to her and those around her to either help.. or in any case make the decision. There are many who don't know the details and as the bible says, "My people die because of lack of knowledge" (from the Supreme Being himself)... it's this lack of knowledge that would actually allow them to put themselves in a situation to make a decision of either giving birth, or committing murder (even though it's still a foetus.. that "thing" might grow up to shake the world).

Unfortunately, this is not an "ideal" world. Everyone isn't living in a happy go luck neighborhood where things flourish and everyone's happy.. not everyone can be sure of tomorrow sunlight.. or having food by the table to eat. I've lived in a situation.. yes... me, where I had to use water from the well and toothepaste to feed myself. So I darn right know what I'm talking about when I say this world can be very harsh.

but saying that there should be no abortion allowed is just like forcing ur religion on others. Everyone complains when christains try to witness to unbelievers (heck I try to witness to.. but I'm not that good at it.. so yeah :biggrin: )... and if we rely on the principle that every man/woman has the power of choice in his/her hands (even God doesn't mess with the free will of a man - to an extent) then I believe this should be left in the hands of the woman.. or whoever is thinking of doing the abortion.

All we can do is tell them why this process is dangerous and not adviceable.. we're in no place to force our views on people who commit this act. It may cause a lot of complications.. but to some people, experience is the best teacher. And unless they actually experience the hardship of abortion and see how vile and disgusting the results are, they may never understand our preaching.

I can't actually say I'm a pro abortion individual or what not.. or pro life.. or whatever groups they have out there. I think abortion is a wrong process.. but I also believe every individual has the right to choose. That's what makes us who we are... our choices :biggrin:

Abdoun_bacK

10-08-2004, 12:30 PM

i jsut got simple words to say...thier human not choices so treat the babies like humans because...THEY ARE!

blanka09

10-08-2004, 12:45 PM

Sure they are humans... but tell me what the difference is with this embryo and a being robbed at gun point. At that point, the harsh reality is YOU are a choice.. You're gonna be killed.. or spared. So there's absolutely nothing you can do.

That's just the harsh reality of it. You think you're worth everything cause you're a human.. but it's ironic that not everyone thinks so.. or there won't be the epitom of slavery.. and of course, you won't get the case of abortion... but unfortunately, I always say... this isn't an ideal/perfect world. So once in a while a defenceless human would be a choice... (be it the choice of life or death.. or something else) for another human to make.

SolidSnake76

10-08-2004, 01:35 PM

jz3232

10-08-2004, 01:53 PM

alot of you aint reading this.

kester: say theres this girl that wanted an abortion. but you dont want her to get it. are you gonna tell her what and what not to do? if she wants to get an abortion, thats HER business. its her fourth amendmant rights to privacy. unless she your daughter or wife, you have no say in what a woman or the millions in this country can do to herself.

its her fourth amendmant rights and her choice on what she should do to the embryo WITHIN her. its not like she carrying it around on her back.

BTW: did ya ever stopped and thought that the condom could break?
yeah its law if i was in that situation i wouldnt want to um let her have an abortion but its her call and even though i dont like um the idea of leting her have one but um i respect um womens right and so um is up to her but as u said it is also not legal too abort to late and thats where all that technicle laws and constitution comes into play but just because of that um it dont mean she wont abort a better idea then aborting is having it for adoption well i did an extensive paper on abortion i could um go more into detail about partial abortion and all the other methods of adoption but um i dont want to, well is not a good idea but if a gurl feels like she needs to abort its her choice we just need to understand that watever we do we will be right there with them and if the guy wants to stop her maybe um reverse psychology is the solution well not exactly but um just letting them know ur right there with the gurl no matter wat um can maybe change her mind thats my um advice to all the ppl in that sitution. THE GUY & GURL MUST UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER AND DO WATS BEST buT REMEMBER ALWAYS IN THE END ITS THE GURLS DECISION.

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 03:43 PM

jz3232

10-08-2004, 03:51 PM

This is mostly to v-f and the ones who stand by his side:

You people need to grow the hell up. Seriously if the woman didn't want to get pregnant then she should have had safe sex, took birth control, or not have sex at all if it is that much of a damn risk for her!

Abortion is never the answer. It is killing, murdering, whatever you call it and if you are a catholic like myself, that is a sin and you go straight to hell for that. Not only is it killing but it is unthoughtful. Sometimes the father wants to have the child and the mother doesn't. So the mother just kills the innocent thing that never got to see life. And who cares about howbad society is. Maybe you stress about how life is so much but I think you seriously need to find the good things in life. I walk around all the time and thank god for the things I have in life. And things to come to get better soon! You are living in extreme stress only looking at the bad side. Like I said before, I rather live life than worry about living.

If the woman does not want to have the baby, then she should seriously put it up for adoption. Give the baby to someone who would care about it. Someone who would lead them the right way. I don't care if abortion is before it is born. It will never be right and doctors all the time try to do some convincing to the carrier to make her think otherwise.

And just think about the ones who got an abortion but wanted to have the kid but they were to afraid to tell their mother that she was pregnent. The ones who had dreams their whole life to have a family with 1-2 kids but when they got pregnant they get scared to see if they can handle such responsibility. Then when the child is killed, she wishes that she never went to the hospital and asked for abortion. You never think of that do you? You are seriously cold hearted.
yo wat u say is true but um come to reality its always um the gurls choice however u look at it its always up to her and reality is that um it doesnt matter if there are moral precepts wat counts is ethics morals is diff from ethics and no matter ifur catholic many cathonlics still look at abortion as bad and believe in their religion but they are just as well hipocrites but um yeah i agree on wat u have to say about life and care more about living it and trying to find the postive things but sometimes someones life is just fool of too many wrongs or too many bad memories and u must remember that not every one is da same every one is different.

coolkilla

10-08-2004, 03:55 PM

This is mostly to v-f and the ones who stand by his side:

You people need to grow the hell up. Seriously if the woman didn't want to get pregnant then she should have had safe sex, took birth control, or not have sex at all if it is that much of a damn risk for her!

Abortion is never the answer. It is killing, murdering, whatever you call it and if you are a catholic like myself, that is a sin and you go straight to hell for that. Not only is it killing but it is unthoughtful. Sometimes the father wants to have the child and the mother doesn't. So the mother just kills the innocent thing that never got to see life. And who cares about howbad society is. Maybe you stress about how life is so much but I think you seriously need to find the good things in life. I walk around all the time and thank god for the things I have in life. And things to come to get better soon! You are living in extreme stress only looking at the bad side. Like I said before, I rather live life than worry about living.

If the woman does not want to have the baby, then she should seriously put it up for adoption. Give the baby to someone who would care about it. Someone who would lead them the right way. I don't care if abortion is before it is born. It will never be right and doctors all the time try to do some convincing to the carrier to make her think otherwise.

And just think about the ones who got an abortion but wanted to have the kid but they were to afraid to tell their mother that she was pregnent. The ones who had dreams their whole life to have a family with 1-2 kids but when they got pregnant they get scared to see if they can handle such responsibility. Then when the child is killed, she wishes that she never went to the hospital and asked for abortion. You never think of that do you? You are seriously cold hearted.
I agree the girl/woman should take birth control if she does not want kids there is no need for abortion...All Vf thinks about is the negative things...Use more then 1 condom or if she doesnt want any kids ever get her tubes tied!...there is no need for abortion...oooo the babys gonna grow up in the ghetto omg...wow!alot of people have grown up in the ghetto and changed do you by any chance know who judge joe mathis is?he grew up in the ghetto sold drugs was in gangs and everything but he changed and became a judge so growing up in the ghetto doesnt mean spit......just because he grows up in the ghetto doesnt mean he/she will do bad in school...doesnt mean he/she will use drugs..doesnt mean he/she will join gangs...What if the father wants the baby and she never tells him shes pregnant because she scared he might leave her and she goes too kill the baby when he finds out then he would b pissed because i know i would!...

Virtual Fighter

10-08-2004, 04:44 PM

You people need to grow the hell up.
grow up? exactly how am i being immature or not acting my age. i dont see anywhere where im not, all i see is you stating this to try to decretify my posts because of me "age".

Seriously if the woman didn't want to get pregnant then she should have had safe sex, took birth control, or not have sex at all if it is that much of a damn risk for her!
that is not the case some times. sometimes we are not all responcible 25 year olds losing their virginity for the first time. sometimes, poop happens. sometimes, sit happens in a way that you are inpregnated. or wait, you should have used birthcontrol. but what about:

1) rape. can you really tell the rapist "hey, before you violate me, can you put this on, i dont want you to get me inpregnated. thanks." flip no. this is one case NONE of you have cared to concider.

2) condom ripping. lets say you love a guy enough to flip him, but not enough to bare his child. yuo have sex with him, with a condom on. oh snap, it ripped. it only takes ONE sperm out of the millions in his semen to impregnate you. just one. you didnt want a baby but now you're faced with that problem.

3) insest. a rape-related case having to do with a family member raping you. you'd have to be really fliping stupid to go against me on this one.

but i guess it's the girl's fault, right?

Abortion is never the answer. It is killing, murdering, whatever you call it and if you are a catholic like myself, that is a sin and you go straight to hell for that. Not only is it killing but it is unthoughtful. Sometimes the father wants to have the child and the mother doesn't. So the mother just kills the innocent thing that never got to see life. And who cares about howbad society is. Maybe you stress about how life is so much but I think you seriously need to find the good things in life.
so acording to you, what is the answer? i have already psoted the siriousenessly bad things about addoption, and about keeping it. so, what is the answer? throwing it in the dumpster? sure it isnt killing, hunger killed the child. im sure you wont go to hell for that. -_-

another thing, quit mentioning god. this is an abortion debate, and ultamitly should abortion be legal, or illegal. that right there renders your god argument obsoleat.

did you not forget the seperation of church and state? meaning if you say "i think law so and so should be tooken out because god said so" it DOESNT WORK. dont even get me started on explaining the seperation..

If the woman does not want to have the baby, then she should seriously put it up for adoption. Give the baby to someone who would care about it. Someone who would lead them the right way.

I ALREADY TOLD YOU, ADOPTION ISNT ALL IT'S CRACKED UP TO BE.

I don't care if abortion is before it is born. It will never be right and doctors all the time try to do some convincing to the carrier to make her think otherwise.
really? prove it.

And just think about the ones who got an abortion but wanted to have the kid but they were to afraid to tell their mother that she was pregnent. The ones who had dreams their whole life to have a family with 1-2 kids but when they got pregnant they get scared to see if they can handle such responsibility. Then when the child is killed, she wishes that she never went to the hospital and asked for abortion. You never think of that do you? You are seriously cold hearted.
thats not abortions fault. thats her fault for being to scared to tell her mothers. duh. -_-'

I agree the girl/woman should take birth control if she does not want kids there is no need for abortion...
1) rape
2) double breaking
3) insest

All Vf thinks about is the negative things...Use more then 1 condom or if she doesnt want any kids ever get her tubes tied!
"tube tying" is a forever effect. if she doesnt want a child when she is 20, she is fliped when she's 40.

judge joe mathis is?he grew up in the ghetto sold drugs was in gangs and everything but he changed and became a judge so growing up in the ghetto doesnt mean spit......
really now.. and is that EVERY ghetto person? no. i bet 1% of gangster guys ever grow up to be as successful as he. face it, there are some people that are just detracting from society, and would be better off not born.

just because he grows up in the ghetto doesnt mean he/she will do bad in school...
oh really? if you live in south central, you'll go to south central high. if you live in compton, you'll go to compton high. it is VERY unfliping likley you'll do good enough to go to some rich ##### school like the bell air accademy.

doesnt mean he/she will use drugs..doesnt mean he/she will join gangs...
statisticly speaking, yes, it does.

What if the father wants the baby and she never tells him shes pregnant because she scared he might leave her and she goes too kill the baby when he finds out then he would b pissed because i know i would!...
really, how many times has that ever happened? i bet all across america, like 4 times. yes, elts take out an entire ammendment to give jsutice to these 4 individuals.

-_-'

NOTE: im notreally paying much attention to blanka's posts, because his posts are more religiouse sided, and i dont really want to get into a religiouse debate. we'll leave it at the "seperation of church and state" comment.

SolidSnake76

10-08-2004, 05:22 PM

dominicankid: freedom of religion. do you know what that means? you better check the bill of rights cause me and VF aint gonna waste our time explaining it.

What if the father wants the baby and she never tells him shes pregnant because she scared he might leave her and she goes too kill the baby when he finds out then he would b pissed because i know i would!...

coolkilla: do you watch some talk shows on TV? theres one show in my area, i dont know if its national, but its called maury. most, and i do stress that word out, of his episodes are nothing but baby-mama and baby-daddy drama. the punk ass man talks about how he wanna have a baby and whatnot, and then when the baby is born, dem turn asshole and quick to deny. now half the time, the baby is thier's. why the hell do they go on the show in the first place and air thier bullpoop about "i not the father, that baby aint mine." when they even know it is? and then the girls who find out the man aint the father is a straight up ho. they down with 1 man, have sum other man's baby then says that its the first man's baby. i mean, if youknow u had sex with other men in different time intervals and know who it is, what the hell? they just straight up ho.

if the woman knows the baby dont belong to the man they want, get a damn abortion before all that drama.

Edited By SolidSnake76 on 1097281528

SSJDan

10-08-2004, 05:41 PM

i was reading some people's post mostly vf's and a couple of others. Vfs main argument seems to be this, abortion is better then forcing a child to A) live a potential abusive life
B) get trapped in an adoption system for a number of years(i think he said 5 years)

So there seems to be 3 options available for a a teen parent who knows they can't raise their child properly.

1) abortion
2) adoption
3) try to do the best they can and raise the child

Vf chooses abortion because he belives that more often than naught option 3 results in an abusive environment for the child resulting in the child that may become abusive as well. Demographics prove this.

Vf believes that the adoption system also causes pain/unwanted stress to the child.

So his conclusion is that abortion is the best option.

My point is this you seem to believe in option one being the best because under the current system option 2 is well crappy. It seems better to me that we should make the adoption system better, quicker, safer for the child.

Let's assume that the adoption process took roughly one year to go through, and had good results in finding parents who aren't abusive and can and WILL provide a good environment. Under these circumstances how can you say yes to abortion?

Also i noticed in your first post that you said something about how the federal law prohibits 2nd tri mester abortions but allows first tri mester abortions. I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not but if you plot out the logic paths of that post as in a format like this:

Conclusion

Premise1
sub premise1
etc

There is an implied premise that would be something like this"Because the federal law allows 1st tri mester abortions it's ok to do 1st tri mester abortions"

Someone could through a counter argument about how in the past federal laws or any laws of past civilizations could be unjust. there point would be that just because it is a federal law does not mean it is right or "just"

I was just informing you about the implied premise not saying the premise is good/bad/right/wrong

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 06:29 PM

Are you adopted by any chance? I most highly doubt it. Adoption is better than having no family at all. I know so because one of my cousins was adopted and he knows he was adopted. And he is living the life he likes. What if they grow up handicapped or mentally disabled by insest? Really, you are talking about straight up Kentucky lifestyle there. And some children just die before birth when things like that happen. Even if the blood related couple knew for a fact that they are going to have the baby and they did not wanted, what do you think they are saying? Most likely the idiots, AND THEY ARE flipING IDIOTS FOR SLEEPING WITH EACH OTHER, are thinking "Let's kill the bitch". The most common stupid thing ever. And really why should they even have a baby? Insest is not even a case of wearing a condom or having safe sex. It is wrong period to sleep with your same blood type. Come on, that is like sleeping with your grandmother, HOW MORE SICK CAN THAT GET. So is getting an abortion from insest right? The first question that you must have in your head is, WHY THE HELL DID I SLEEP WITH MY FAMILY MEMBER.

Raping, let us think of how far raping can get. Most times it completely flips up the women's organs. Not being capable of caring a child. And most likely the woman would go through therapy from having like a mental breakdown or something. but come on now, let's be serious. Life is full of choices. People should know the right things to do and the wrong things to do. People should know what is good and what is bad. For example, I know if it doesn't seem safe to live in a certain type of area, which most likely you can tell right away just by the looks of it, then why are you living there? I would rather live in a more secure place, I DON'T CARE IF IT COST ME 300 DOLLAR RENT TO LIVE IN A APARTMENT THAT HAS THE PERIMETER OF A WALK IN CLOSET, as long as I know it is safe. And to tell you the truth, most of the "rapings" here in Miami are by the Orange Bowl where the UM football players play and that is not a safe place to be at period. You will never here about my area saying "WOMEN RAPED AND CARRYING THE RAPERS BABY" because really, you would have to be really slick and asking to go straight to jail to try and rape a girl in my area. Seriously people should think about safety and guess what. Life is full of choices and you start making the choice of how your life is when you first start school. Do you want life hard or easy? If you would like it easy then you would think about to educate yourself to your fullest to get a career in the future, and to make your parent/guardian life easier from worrying about your grades and how your future is going to be. When you put parents through so much pressure in there lives they will never make it through in life and they will just be making enough to survive. Making enough to survive is most likely putting you a step closer to a shelter home. Bringing back to how unsafe areas around there can be. So as long as their are choices in life, which there are many, and you go through the right choices, then you should not be worried about getting raped. And not being raped would not lead to this pregnancy adoption thing. Name me any case of raping and I will give you an answer of how the women could have prevented from being raped. And don't give me no fliping Helen Of Troy type of raping case. That is not realistic.

Condom Breaking. This really where it gets to me. This is what probably makes me think that iplay2win is alive right now. Born a mistake. Hold on lol I am not going to give her body punches on a debating topic.

Well really I was raised at all times in this saying "You are responsible for your own stupid actions, deal with it." And really That is all I can say about condom breaking. I for one, if that was the case, I would love to keep the baby because I really like children. I play football with 7-9 year olds everyday and really if I don't find the "women of my dreams" then I am so adopting but anyways. If the condom breaks then straight up that is your own fault and you are responsible for whatever comes to you. If the baby is coming, then he is now your responsibility NO MATTER WHAT. I don't care if you hate children, if you never wanted kids, whatever. You can blame the one who bought the "smaller than it suppose to be" size condom and you can cry about it, but as long as you have a life inside you besides the one you have in your heart, you are carrying one and now it is your responsibility to go through birth. Abortion shows careless actions. And if you can not afford it, there are ALOT OF flipING GOVERMENT PROGRAMS THAT HELP YOU HAVE THE THINGS YOU NEED TO TAKE CARE FOR THE BABY. When I was a 9 year old child, my mother never had money to take care of her ####orn daughter and she got special help from the government. They would give her 560 dollars a month. That is plenty of money not to mention other places where you can go to help you out. but now we don't worry about money =). It has been a great life with its few struggles =). *cough* Anyways and like I said before, there is always adoption. And no orphanage will give up a child to just some family with a dirty look. And yes there are the bad things of adoption but it comes again to my saying "Better to live life than worry about living."

Conclusion. Life is full of choices. Make the right choice and maybe you won't have to go through the thought of abortion. Abortion is yes legal but wrong. And ofcourse, should be everyone with a right mind the "super very last option". Hopefully if you would think for a second you would do all the right choices to live in a SAFE AND HEALTHY society. Safety and Health beats the crap out of condom breaking, insest, and rape.

WOO! I OWNED THIS POST!

Virtual Fighter

10-08-2004, 07:13 PM

Are you adopted by any chance? I most highly doubt it. Adoption is better than having no family

at all. I know so because one of my cousins was adopted and he knows he was adopted. And he is living

the life he likes. What if they grow up handicapped or mentally disabled by insest? Really, you are

talking about straight up Kentucky lifestyle there. And some children just die before birth when things

like that happen. Even if the blood related couple knew for a fact that they are going to have the baby

and they did not wanted, what do you think they are saying? Most likely the idiots, AND THEY ARE flipING

IDIOTS FOR SLEEPING WITH EACH OTHER, are thinking "Let's kill the bitch". The most common stupid thing

ever. And really why should they even have a baby? Insest is not even a case of wearing a condom or

having safe sex. It is wrong period to sleep with your same blood type. Come on, that is like sleeping

with your grandmother, HOW MORE SICK CAN THAT GET. So is getting an abortion from insest right? The

first question that you must have in your head is, WHY THE HELL DID I SLEEP WITH MY FAMILY

MEMBER.
you moron, i said insestual rape. not insest for the flip of insest. read my posts more closley next

time.

People should know the right things to do and the wrong things to do. People should know what is

good and what is bad. For example, I know if it doesn't seem safe to live in a certain type of area,

which most likely you can tell right away just by the looks of it, then why are you living there? I

would rather live in a more secure place, I DON'T CARE IF IT COST ME 300 DOLLAR RENT TO LIVE IN A

APARTMENT THAT HAS THE PERIMETER OF A WALK IN CLOSET, as long as I know it is safe.
i dont know about anyone else, but what im readig is "rape? pfftt.. its their fault for getting raped."
it is NOT the womens fault, and NO one deserves to be raped.

FACT: 2/3 of rapes happen in the victims home. No, not in some dark ally. IN THEIR flipING HOME. its

your home, how more secure SHOULD you be?

FACT: 3/4 of all victims know their rapists. they could be family members, or the boy down the street.

NO ONE WANTS OR ASKS TO BE RAPED.

You will never here about my area saying "WOMEN RAPED AND CARRYING THE RAPERS BABY" because

really, you would have to be really slick and asking to go straight to jail to try and rape a girl in my

area.
umm.. okay? that really doesnt help your post, me thinks it was just added there for the sake of adding

it.

Seriously people should think about safety and guess what. Life is full of choices and you start

making the choice of how your life is when you first start school. Do you want life hard or easy? If you

would like it easy then you would think about to educate yourself to your fullest to get a career in the

future, and to make your parent/guardian life easier from worrying about your grades and how your future

is going to be. When you put parents through so much pressure in there lives they will never make it

through in life and they will just be making enough to survive. Making enough to survive is most likely

putting you a step closer to a shelter home. Bringing back to how unsafe areas around there can be. So

as long as their are choices in life, which there are many, and you go through the right choices, then

you should not be worried about getting raped. And not being raped would not lead to this pregnancy

adoption thing. Name me any case of raping and I will give you an answer of how the women could have

prevented from being raped. And don't give me no fliping Helen Of Troy type of raping case. That is not

realistic.
omg, what kind of shovinist bullpoop is that? you'er basically saying its the VICTIMS fault. thats why

they're victims. they are not to blame.

okay, ill play along with your game:

i saw a rape education video, telling about a story about some lady, living in a good neigbhorhood,

oppened the door to her house when it was ringing. there were two boys, one 16, the other 15. they said

"would you want to buy some video games" she said no, but they pushed the door open. she said pplease

leave, and tryed to get them away. the kicked the poop out of her then raped her. she lived with nobody.

what, should she have got a gun and shot whoever was on the other side? where did this women "ask" to be

raped?

shovenistic pig.

Condom Breaking. This really where it gets to me. This is what probably makes me think that iplay2win is

alive right now. Born a mistake. Hold on lol I am not going to give her body punches on a debating

topic.

Well really I was raised at all times in this saying "You are responsible for your own stupid

actions, deal with it."
but should the BABY DEAL WITH IT. IS IT THE BABY's FAULT? NO. it is not. i've seen all of you so called

"prolifers" say this, but not one ever give a flip about the well being of the child.

And really That is all I can say about condom breaking. I for one, if that was the case, I would

love to keep the baby because I really like children. I play football with 7-9 year olds everyday and

really if I don't find the "women of my dreams" then I am so adopting but anyways. If the condom breaks

then straight up that is your own fault and you are responsible for whatever comes to you. If the baby

is coming, then he is now your responsibility NO MATTER WHAT. I don't care if you hate children, if you

never wanted kids, whatever. You can blame the one who bought the "smaller than it suppose to be" size

condom and you can cry about it, but as long as you have a life inside you besides the one you have in

your heart, you are carrying one and now it is your responsibility to go through birth.
again, not once did you bring up the well being of the child. just how the parents should have to deal

with it. -_-'

560 dollars a month.
my brother lives in a one room apartment, and it costs him 600 a month. his eating costs him 120 a

month. he makes 800 a month BECAUSE he is working as a college proffescorst assistant.

not, lets say we add:
100 for a stroller,
50 for a baby sitter
300 in food
100 in clothes
and around 100 in miccllaniouse/health care

now, add bills, bills, and more bills.

of fliping snap, you no longer have ANY money, and if you penny pinch alot you might have an extra

couple of dollers to whipe the drool off your baby's mouth.

can a 17 year old really handle this preasure?

"Better to live life than worry about living."
let me rephrasie your quote:

better to live life then to worry about things that are flipnig it up.

Safety and Health beats the crap out of condom breaking, insest, and rape.

i erally dont know howbeing safe and healthy will prevent a condom breaking, getting insestualy raped,

or just flat out raped.

only if there was some super hero CALLED "safe and health" man. which there isnt. -_-

WOO! I OWNED THIS POST!
no, no you didnt.

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 07:28 PM

Seriously like any other debater would say, your insults just shows your lackness of knowledge in a debate and shows that you are being proved wrong. Quoting everything I say is pretty pathetic. And I say this because bush quoted almost every word Kerry had said and look who won that debate? Yep, Kerry had the upper hand on it. Kerry didn't need quotes. That debate made some republicans turn into democrats. So is your post lacking? Yes, yes it is. And I already been in many debates on abortion before. And like every debate there is always going to be that one loser who starts the insults, using the insult a way of showing that they are "bigger and more right" than the opponent. And in this debate, which you had created, you are becoming that loser. Think before you make a debate again. Showing insults against others in a debate is an act of weakness. This is why debates in this forum have been pointless the past, 2 years?

Virtual Fighter

10-08-2004, 07:59 PM

What insults? what insults did i say? the only one that can i can think of is the "shovenistic pig" insult, which really, you did deserve. you were saying that the victims of rape were ASKING to be raped. that angered me alot because i have some personal experiences with rape, and its a very fliping touchy subject.

and i didnt "quote" you, i just refferenced in simple terms (it being stated above) what i am reffering to. so, instead of giving one huge parragraph with many gramical errors, and one large run on sentances i break it into parts.

and why all of a sudden are you proclaiming yourself the winner? seems to me you are just jumping on the ball quickly, proclaiming yourself the winner so people will beleive you instead of the facts.

seems to me you are just making excuses so you can quit arguing.

do you want to end it, ill get someone like NJ to come and review, and score the debate.

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 08:12 PM

you moron, i said insestual rape. not insest for the flip of insest. read my posts more closley next

Just shovenistic pigs? Don't think so.

----------------

And who said I was proclaiming myself a winner. When on debates there will never be a person who says "I surrender" and there will always be a 50 percent chance of people who agree on one side and 50 percent who disagrees with the other 50 percent. There is no winner in debates. It is nothing but a clash of egos going after each other with each fact that they got unless one shows a convincing fact that would lead the opponent to start seeing things in his way. Which in this topic, it doesn't seem like none of that is happening. but if now you are going to question me about the Kerry/bush case, my answer why there is a winner is because you can easily can tell by the stuttering and the sweat of bush's face that he is losing it. And you can also tell about the smile and confidence that Kerry shows. Insults will lead to flaming in this topic. And if moron and shovenistic pig is the beggining, then just wait for the future of this topic.

Virtual Fighter

10-08-2004, 08:38 PM

Gorrilaz985 : hey, joe
joeballz0000 : yo
Gorrilaz985 : hey, i need a favor from you...
joeballz0000 : wazza?
Gorrilaz985 : i need you to read an entire thread, (debate thread), and tell us all who won me, or everyone against me.
Gorrilaz985 : its only 6 pages.. would you be able to do that for me?
joeballz0000 : -_-
Gorrilaz985 : :(
joeballz0000 : what's the debate bout?
Gorrilaz985 : abortion
joeballz0000 : which forum?
Gorrilaz985 : sfo forum
joeballz0000 : you won
joeballz0000 : you're points were much better, theirs were just a bunch of long subjective rants
joeballz0000 : why? you guys still using the "great nantuko joe" as reference material?
Gorrilaz985 : i did it in the you-style. where i quote every passage and amke rebultles about everything, illimiating their resisting arguments.
joeballz0000 : YES! That's the way to debate
Gorrilaz985 : lancerpx got all insulted when i called him a "shovenistic pig" >=/
joeballz0000 : hehe

there, thats proof enough.the master debater himself, NJ said i won.

not only that, but he was ANTI abortion. he saw through his bias to note i won.

so ha!

im all debated out, and im sure you are too.

Edited By Virtual Fighter on 1097293217

SSJDan

10-08-2004, 08:51 PM

so your not going to answer my question vf

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 09:11 PM

blaze985

10-08-2004, 09:17 PM

VF, don't make me debate against you...

On a lighter note, lancer, I find it hilarious that your last post says that there are no winners in debates. In the previous one, you said Kerry won the debate... You just controdicted yourself... Furthermore, quoting people is a very good strategy for winning a debate. When you quote, you then force others to see fact instead of wrongly accusing you of spewing out opinions...

Virtual Fighter

10-08-2004, 09:19 PM

right, right. first you claimed you won, then you claimed you didnt, now you claim "there is no winners".

just face it, you're beat.

oh, and ssjdan:

Let's assume that the adoption process took roughly one year to go through, and had good results in finding parents who aren't abusive and can and WILL provide a good environment. Under these circumstances how can you say yes to abortion?
for every rule there is an exception. this, is the exception. abortion in this case would be wrong. just how abortion for a 20 year old whore who doesnt LIKE bearth control is wrong. just how a women with 7 kids is wrong.

I was just informing you about the implied premise not saying the premise is good/bad/right/wrong

i know. in fact, i know all sorts of contredictions and loopholes i made which i was supprised no one every mention. if i were to debate with myself, i would probably kick my own ass.

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 09:19 PM

I already explained that blaze and virtualfighter. Read the posts carefully.

Edited By dominicankid098 on 1097295941

blaze985

10-08-2004, 09:25 PM

lancer, that was a faulty explanation. Perhaps he was sweating because he was in a full suit and rather hot. Simple things like that don't lead to declaring a winner or a loser. Professional debate analysis dudes have split pretty much 50-50 on who won that debate. Thus, you can't say there was a winner when you've 1) said there are no winners in debates 2) have no basis of that OPINION other than the fact that he was sweating and stuttering and 3) even professionals can't come to an exact conclusion.

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 09:45 PM

Ah lord, Here we go. Wasting more time on this topic at 12:40 something in the mourning.

Maybe I have to be more clearer on what I had said because there will always be those few who don't seem to understand.

In cases like this debate, there is nothing you will. It is like "what are you going to win after this debate?" There will always be someone disagreeing and this topic will go on for 30 pages max. I was in an abortion debate before on a different forum and it went to an 80ish page debate untill it finally got closed since everyone had realized that there will be no winner.

When on the other hand, the presidential debate has a crowd to win to choose their destined "leader", which in this case neither bush or Kerry even deserve the President status. but that is just my own opinion. Body language such as sweating, stuttering, etc will just show everyone that the person might be lying or maybe he doesn't have an arguement for it. Making him lesser than the oponent. All my friends who went to that boring Debate Watch Party in University of Miami "where the debate was held" noticed the same things as well. Not only that but there were very few bush followers in the Watch Party. Kinda weird :S

Well anyways since I know this is going to turn out to be another "let's gang up on lancer" topic, I will leave.

Edited By dominicankid098 on 1097297160

10-08-2004, 10:02 PM

Do you really think I care about what Nantuko got to say? I don't care if you consider him your "DEBATE GOD". That is just one person on your side and nothing but a person. Just like his vote on the presidential election isn't any bigger than Bill Gates. I can careless what nantuko got to say. Your little convo to him and using him as a way to have the upper hand is pretty much useless to me. He is nothing but a person.
No frikking way...you don't say. I'm nothing but a person? Wow....that's news to me. I never would have guessed that I'm a mere flesh-and-blood homo sapien sapien with an average life expectancy of an average human male. I always thought that I was so much more than just one person....like....a kachima or a higher deity or maybe even a full-blown god. It NEVER dawned on me that I was just a person, no more, no less.....damn, what a life-changing post....

As for being a master debator....what can I say? It's not my fault that in pretty much every debate that I've been involved in, the opposition has had either very little or NO debating skills, sources, quotes or facts to support their claims, and in turn eventually quit the debate in frustration of the fact that they can't break me.

Master debator? No. Master debator as compared to many of the prepubescent twerps that have tried to rise up and tell me that I'm wrong about things that I have far more proof of and material to argue than they do, all because they're incapable of forming their own thoughts and opinions and go only by the heresay of their parents and/or guardians and/or elders? Yes.

I actually disagree with VF on the issue (as he said), and actually am awaiting the return of BG so I can once again publicly debate this issue, among others, on a forum where my voice and sources are not restricted and ignored by numerous conditions. I simply agreed that VF had the upper hand in the debate becuase he came forward with concrete facts and evidence, instead of "he says she says" instances, what advice his parents gave him, etc, etc.

And since when was he ever a great? HAHAHA He is as great as his crappy malarky thing he had going on years ago.

I used the term "great nantuko joe" as a mere joke, considering how I'm one of the older vets in the game and that for some reason, various people used to look up to me and respect what I said.

The only thing I have a problem with is you, and you deciding to go talking smack behind my back. Both about me and Mallarky. Granted, Mallarky is dead, yes, but then again, you stating that I'm only as "great" as a dead forum means that you think nothing more of me than a dead husk ofused-up consciousness unable to think or do anything. Which, by implication, means that you think yourself more highly than me. Which, by my own word of mouth, is a word that I would use, but is banned on the forum...use your brain and figure it out.

Yes, I'm older than 95% of the people from the SFO community, both on these boards and on the now-defunct Battle Grounds. Yes, I have a higher education level than 95% of the people on this community, due to the fact that I'm currently attending college and have already completed one certificate, working towards two degrees and hoping to go to a four-year college to try and get degrees in four different areas, but that's beside the point. The point is that here, on an online forum, I'm an equal to you, you're equal to VF, VF is equal to Karma, Karma is equal to Masta, Masta is equal to KKS, etc, etc. And I therefore don't like hearing about some youngun on a forum making negative comments about me behind my back on a SFO forum. For all intents and purposes, I'm not even supposed to to exist anymore, except in the memories of those who I've considered my "online friends," if such a concept is even truly possible, and certainly shouldn't be brought up in context in either a post proclaiming me as a debate god, or a post talking crap about me and a forum that's been dead for the past three years.

So if either of you two, or ANYONE for that matter, wants to make reference to me in such a way that you would be talking down about me without me knowing, then be a man about it and call me out, so it doesn't seem like you're just some damn coward talking about someone behind their back.

dominicankid098

10-08-2004, 10:14 PM

And you think I had no idea that you were veiwing this topic? I was hoping you would reply.

So if either of you two, or ANYONE for that matter, wants to make reference to me in such a way that you would be talking down about me without me knowing, then be a man about it and call me out, so it doesn't seem like you're just some damn coward talking about someone behind their back.

*Sigh* One of the things that I just simply can't stand about the internet is when someone says dumb things like "be a man and call me out". LMAO Please child you think I am scared of someone on the internet? Calling me a coward and especially you not knowing even half of who I am. I seriously knew for a fact that you would be posting here so how would that make me a coward?

Which, by my own word of mouth, is a word that I would use, but is banned on the forum...use your brain and figure it out.

For someone who says he is smarter than 95% of the members in sfo, which is just an opinion of course to his own cocky self, trying to use a cuss word in the internet wouldn't sound that intelligent now would it?

10-08-2004, 10:48 PM

*Sigh* One of the things that I just simply can't stand about the internet is when someone says dumb things like "be a man and call me out". LMAO Please child you think I am scared of someone on the internet? Calling me a coward and especially you not knowing even half of who I am. I seriously knew for a fact that you would be posting here so how would that make me a coward?
Oooookay....deep breath.....

First off, I'm not meaning it in a threatening way....apparently in today's teenage society, everything anyone says apparently has a violent connotation. When I say "call me out," I'm referring to the fact that if someone's talking negatively of me, I'd like to know about it, so I have a chance to defend myself.

I actually wouldn't have posted here had you not made those comments.

Second off....since when does a seventeen year-old get off calling someone four years his senior a child? Unless someone has offended me directly, I tend to show everyone that I interact with a certain level of respect, and would appreciate the same level of respect in return. In my post, I did not refer to you as a lesser individual or as a "child," (on the contrary I did quite the opposite, rebuking previous claims of being "great" and instead placing myself on the same tier as everyone else) and therefore do not deserve that type of disrespect.

Now, had I said something along the lines of "Listen up son you talk poop and i'll kill you," then you'd have grounds to make such a statement as you did in the above quote. but becuase I did not, nor showing any inclination of the "threat of violence" over an online forum, such a statement coming from one such as yourself is....how should I say....out of line.

Actually, the worst I did was call you a coward, and in that I may have been rather hasty in my selection of vocabulary. Granted, as you say, I indeed do not know "half of who [you are]," and therefore making the coward remark misplaced, but by the same token, you know nothing about me. Furthermore, I know not why you would go out of your way to actually attempt to draw me out and get me to post here......to what ends would this help you attain?

For someone who says he is smarter than 95% of the members in sfo, which is just an opinion of course to his own cocky self, trying to use a cuss word in the internet wouldn't sound that intelligent now would it?

Actually, my claim to being smarter than a percentage of the members of SFO is not a mere opinion to my own "cocky self," but is a simple fact: as I am older than a vast majority of the posters, and living in a state with a high-ranked education level, as well as being a B student in college. Back when I used to post here, I determined that the vast majority of the posters were between the ages of ten and sixteen, which would place them on an education tier many levels lower than my own, therefore directly showing that I have many more years of education, have gathered more knowledge and information than the majority. So no, it's not a testament to my cockiness, nor some type of brag remark, but a simple statement of facts. I do realize that there are people that post who are indeed my peers, and others who are even older than I, and I know and respect that they have acquired more knowledge than I, and do not attest this knowledge as being "an opinion to their cocky selves."

but to the point, why would using a cuss word be unintelligent? It's a simple fact: people swear. My dad swears. My professor swears. My boss swears. The president swears. Basically, I referred to the swear but didn't type it because the language filter would have edited or removed it, and because I'm human, not a robot, and therefore tend to use phases such as the one I referred to. Whether it be "that's a load of bulls-hit" or "that's a bunch of baloney," the meaning is the same. Just like saying "heck" instead of "hell," or "fudge" instead of "flip," the meaning is the same, so why not say it anyway?

Anyway, in order to avoid further prolonged posting sessions, I'd just like to end with this: In an above quote, you said you were not a coward because you knew that I would be posting here in response to what you said. My question is that instead of drawing me here using some halfassed diss comparing me to a nonexistent message board in order to get me to post here, why not just IM me on aol or something and be like "dude, post in this topic" or something? Granted, I see you were probably drawn to that by Vfusing me as reference and apparently taking what I said about the topic as some sort of concrete stamp of approval or the word of god, but in that case, why not just tell him to stfuinstead of dragging my name further into it?

Basically, what I'm asking is to simply drop any and all reference to myself or the sometimes reference of me being a master debator...if you'd like me to post a comment or to look over a debate topic, then just IM me and if i'm interested, I'll participate.

This goes to Virtual Fighter too.....I was unaware you'd actually post that little convo on the boards to try and further your foothold in the debate....instead, you should have simply asked me to participate...and I may have. Simple as that.

Anyways, I've got some other things to attend to that were put aside for a few minutes while these posts were written. Don't take my word as anything unless I directly posted it here (so that post by VF with the aim convo between me and him holds about the same amount of relevance to the topic as one of the Year 2000 doomsday seers. Go on with the debate.....sorry it ended up getting sidetracked....I'll abstain from posting unless someone actually asks me to participate in the debate at large.....

NJ

PS: dominicankid, if youd' like to discuss this little matter with me further, please, i ask you to do so privately on the forum of either an instant messenger or private messages on the forum. Thanks )

Edited By Shauku on 1097301031