Db"z" vs sf...pl debate... - Come in and debate...if you dare!

[Gotenks13]

Well, since the DB"Z" vs. SF debate pretty much went down with DBZ winning, I've decided to make a PL (Power Level) debate. Besides, TarknaX said that he likes debating over PLs, so maybe I can get more people to post in here. Before you post your PLs, be sure to post the saga that they were in (this is for DB"Z"). As for SF (Street Fighter...), just post the PL that you think they have at a certain time in the SF story line. That's all for now.

[Nantuko Joe]

Well, the only way to judge the PLs of SF is to compare the strength and destructive capabilities of their attacks to the pls of the DBZ characters.

[TarkanX]

No offense.. but this is dumb(remember, no offense). It's hard to get a PL for SF, but what I know is that any SF can beat Mr. Satan, and Videl.


anyways, here are my Freiza saga PL's, they are the most accurate because I put it in a range, so instead of saying a PL of 1,000, and I'm not even sure if its at 1,000, I would say 500-1,500, I would know that it's inbetween those PL's.

(S)-stated in the manga

Raditz fight:
------------
Goku(weights): 334(S)
Goku(no weights): 416(S)
Piccolo(weights): 322(S)
Piccolo(no weights): 408(S)
Raditz: 1,200-1,250(S)
Goku(Kamehameha): 924-1,000(S)
Gohan: 1(S)
Gohan(crying): 710(S)
Gohan(angry): 1,307(S)
Piccolo(1st beam): 1,330(S)
Piccolo(2nd beam): 1,200-1,320


After battle
---------------
Piccolo(weights): 329(S)
Tenshinhan: 250(S)
Krillin: 206(S)
Yamucha: 177(S)
Chaotzu: 130-170
Kamesennin: 139(S)


Saiya-jin fight
---------------
Piccolo(max): 2,400-2,600(leaning on 2,500)
Yamucha(max) 1,250-1,310(leaning on 1,300)
Saibamen(each): 1,200(S)
Krillin(max): 1,400-1,700
Tenshinhan(max): 1,500-1,900
Tenshinhan(one armed kikohou): 2,000-2,300
Chaotzu(max): 1,010-1,100
Gohan: 1,010-1,100
Gohan(masenko): 2,800(S)
Nappa(max): 7,500-8,000
Goku(surpressed): 5,000(S)
Goku(max): 8,100(S)
Gohan(healed): 1,300-1,800
Vegeta: 16,000(S)
Vegeta(powered up): 18,000(S)
Goku(kaio-ken) 16,200(S)
Goku(kaio-ken*2): 16,200(increase of speed)(S)
Goku(kaio-ken*3): 24,000(loss of strength)
Vegeta(Gallic-hou): 24,000
Goku(kaio-ken*3+kamehameha): 24,000
Goku(kaio-ken*4): 24,000-28,000(loss of strength)
Goku(kaio-ken*4+kamehameha): 24,000-28,000
Vegeta(oozaru): 50,000-150,000(lossed strength from battle)
Gohan(oozaru): 5,000-16,000


Freiza saga:
--------------
Gohan: 1,500-2,000
Kuririn: 1,500-2,000
Freiza thugs: 1,100-1,500
Vegeta: 23,000-25,000
Kewie: 18,500-19,000
Dodoria: 21,000
Zaabon: 22,000
Namek warriors: 1,000(S)
Namek W(max): 3,000(S)
Zaabon(monster form): 28,000-30,000
Vegeta(healed against Zaabon in round 1): 30,000
Gohan(old namek power-up): 23,000-25,000
Kuririn(old namek power-up): 20,000-21,000
Gurudo: 1,000-10,000
Rikuum: 30,000-50,000
Baata: 30,000-50,000
Jisu: 30,000-50,000
Goku(surpressed): 5,000(S)
Goku(against Baata, Jisu, and Rikuum): 60,000(S)
Ginyu(using half power): 60,000
goku(max): 90,000(S)
Goku(kaio-ken): 180,000(S)
Ginyu(if at max): 120,000(S)
Ginyu(in Goku's body): 23,000(S)
Gohan(healed from Rikuum fight):27,000-35,000
Kuririn(healed from Rikuum fight): 25,500-27,000
Vegeta(healed from Rikuum fight): 100,000-160,000
Neiru: 42,000(S)
Freiza(form 1, 60%): 318,000
Pikkoro: 43,000-100,000
Vegeta(after rest): 340,000-370,000
Gohan: same PL against Ginyu(in Goku's body)
Kuririn: same PL against Ginyu(in Goku's body)
Freiza(form 1, 70%): 371,000
Freiza(form 1, if at max): 530,000(S)
Freiza(form 2, 60%): 600,000-1,100,000
Gohan(angry at Freiza form 2 attacks): 600,000-1,500,000
Kuririn(healed from Freiza form 2 attacks):30,000-40,000
Gohan(healed from Freiza form 2): 35,000-50,000
Pikkoro(fused with Neiru, wearing weights):500,000-1,100,000
Freiza(form 2, 90%): 900,000-1,500,000
Pikkoro(taking off weights): 900,000-1,650,000
Freiza(form 2, if at max):1,000,000-1,850,000
Freiza(form 3, 60%): 2,000,000-4,000,000
Gohan(angry at Freiza form 3): 1,800,000-3,800,000
Pikkoro(healed from Freiza form 2 attacks): 1,000,000-1,800,000
Freiza(form 3, if at max): 3,400,000-7,000,000


Freiza(form 4, 20%): 4,500,000-20,000,000
Vegeta(healed from Kuririn blast): Even with Freiza form 4 20%
Freiza(form 4, 30%): 6,750,000-30,000,000
Goku(if he used base): 620,000-2,800,000
Goku(kaio-ken*10): 6,200,000-28,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 50%): 11,250,000-50,000,000
Goku(kaio-ken*20, lossed some power): 10,000,000-49,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 70%): 15,750,000-70,000,000
SSJ Goku: Even with Freiza form 4, max
Freiza(form 4, max): 22,500,000-100,000,000

[Nantuko Joe]

Oh, god. Now this is gonna turn into a debate about DBZ power levels

Here are the power levels. Any non-official levels are in blue. However, those non-official levels are accurate, guesstimate-type levels. <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>Please!</span>Read the levels first, then any explanations before disputing the levels. Many of them may seem unbelievable, but if you think for a little while you will realize that they are quite accurate

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>DBZ</span>
Fight With Raditsu
Farmer w/ Shotgun: 5
Raditsu: 1,100
Piccolo with weighted suit: 322
Piccolo: 408
Goku with weighted suit: 334
Goku: 416
Piccolo's 1st Makankosappo: 1,330
Piccolo's 2nd Makankosappo: 1,440
Gohan: between 1-1,370 (changes w/emotion)

After the Battle
Muten Roshi: 139
Umi-game: 0.001
Kuririn: 206
Yamucha: 177
Tenshinhan: 250
Piccolo: 329

Fight With Nappa & Vegeta
Saibamen: 1,200 each
Yamucha: 1,480
Piccolo: 1,220*
Gohan: 981*
Gohan's Masenko: 2,800
Nappa: 4,000
Goku: 5,000
Goku Kaioken x1: 8,000
Goku Kaioken x2: 16,000
Goku Kaioken x3: 24,000
Goku Kaioken x4: 32,000
Vegeta: 15,000**
Vegeta at Max: 18,000**
Vegeta's Gallic Haou: 24,000
Ozourou Vegeta: 180,000
Vegeta Vs Ozourou Gohan: <9,810
Ozourou Gohan: 9,810
*Piccolo and Gohan's levels are in blue because they can mask their power, lowering and raising it. Those are just the scouter readings.
**Although Akira gave Vegeta a power of 18,000 originally, Kaioken x2 Goku gave him a run for his money. Therefore, I believe that Vegeta had lowered his power level, or was simply "relaxing", and thus his power level was a little lower. Then, when he started to take the fight seriously, he simply went back up to his 18,000 normal power.

Arrival on Namek
Gohan: 1,500
Kuririn: 1,500
Furiza's Men: <1,000
Vegeta: 24,000
Kui: 15,000
Dudoria: 21,000
Zarbon: 23,000
Zarbon Monster: 33,000
Namek Fighters: 3,000

Later on on Namek
Vegeta Vs. Zarbon Monster: 35,000
Kuririn after power-up: 10,000
Gohan after power-up: 10,000

Ginyu Force
Vegeta: 24,000
Vegeta's Max Power: 35,000
Gerudo: 5,000
Rikum: 40,000
Jisu: 50,000
Baata: 45,000
Ginyu: 120,000
Goku (supressed): 5,000
Goku Vs. Jisu & Baata: bursts of 60,000
Goku Max Power: 90,000
Goku Kaioken: 180,000

Death of Ginyu Force
Ginyu in Goku's Body: 23,000
Vegeta: 80,000*
Vegeta's Max Power: 530,000*
Kuririn: 17,000
Gohan: 20,000
Nail: 45,000
Furiza: 530,000
Furiza Form 2: 1,060,000
*The first level of Vegeta, the one of 80,000, seems kinda accurate, because he was fighting. Although the level of 530,000 looks like one heck of a stretch, when he and Furiza grasped hands, they were dead even in power. However, when they let go, Furiza was fine, but Vegeta was breathing heavily, thus indicating a HUGE expenditure of ki to raise himself to that level.

Fight with Furiza
Piccolo Fused w/Nail: 800,000*
Furiza Form 2: 1,060,000
Furiza Form 3: 2,500,000
Furiza Form 4, 33% Power: 4,000,000
Gohan Vs. Furiza Form 2: bursts of 1,100,000**
Gohan Vs. Furiza Form 3: bursts of 3,000,000**
Vegeta Max Power Vs. Furiza Form 4, 33%: 1,000,000
*Although Piccolo is a match for Furiza, he has a lower power level. He is able to match Furiza because he is quicker and more cunning than his opponent.
**These levels for Gohan may seem unbelievable, but they make sense. Gohan really battered around Furiza Form 2 after he attacked Kuririn. And against Furiza Form 3, if Gohan's blast had hit the ground, Furiza would have been dead.

Goku Vs. Furiza
Furiza Form 4, 33% Power: 4,000,000
Furiza Form 4, 50% Power: 6,000,000
Furiza Form 4, 70% Power: 8,400,000
Furiza Form 4, 100% Power: 12,000,000
Goku: 300,000*
Goku Kaioken x10: 3,000,000
Goku Kaioken x20: 6,000,000
SSJ Goku: 15,000,000**
*Although Goku has a base power of 300,000, he does not fight Furiza with his base power.
**Although Goku is 3,000,000 levels higher than Furiza, Furiza is an extremely cunning and quick warrior, which makes it seem that he and Goku are evenly powered.

Furiza on Earth
Trunks: 5 (supressed)
SSJ Trunks: 35,000,000
Cyborg Furiza: 25,000,000
King Kold: 30,000,000
SSJ Goku: 40,000,000

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>After this point, ALL levels are guesses!</span>
Android/Cell Saga
SSJ Goku: 45,000,000
SSJ Goku (sick w/virus): <20,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 45,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 47,000,000
Piccolo: 20,000,000
Gohan: 15,000,000
Android 20: 15,000,000
Android 19: 20,000,000
Android 18: 55,000,000
Android 17: 60,000,000
Android 16: 65,000,000
Piccolo (after merge w/Kami): 60,000,000
Cell: 60,000,000
Cell (after absorbing humans): 65,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 80,000,000
Perfect Cell: 150,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 100,000,000
USSJ Trunks: 125,000,000
USSJ Trunks Max Power: 145,000,000

Cell Game
Mr. Sataan: 40
Piccolo: 80,000,000
Android 16: 70,000,000
Perfect Cell: 150,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 200,000,000
Imperfect Cell's Explosion: 150,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 125,000,000
SSJ Goku: 150,000,000
Goku's Kamehameha: 155,000,000
USSJ Trunks: 145,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 100,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 200,000,000

Buu Saga
Piccolo: 150,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 190,000,000*
SSJ2 Vegeta: 240,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 260,000,000
Chibi Trunks: 35,000,000
SSJ Chibi Trunks: 95,000,000
Goten: 30,000,000
SSJ Goten: 90,000,000
Android 18: 60,000,000
Kaioshin: 100,000,000
Kibito: 110,000,000
Yamoo: 10,000,000
Supopovitch: 10,000,000
Babidi: 5,000,000
Dabura: 200,000,000
Fat Buu: 300,000,000
Ma-jinn Vegeta: 260,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 350,000,000
Ma-jinn Buu: 310,000,000
Gotenks: 220,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 300,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 400,000,000
Ma-jinn Buu (w/SSJ3 Gotenks & Piccolo): 450,000,000
Gohan's Zet Sword: 360,000,000
Mystic Gohan: 400,000,000
Ma-jinn Buu (w/Trunks, Goten, & Piccolo): 375,000,000
Ma-jinn Buu (w/Trunks, Goten, Piccolo & Gohan): 425,000,000
Vegetto: 600,000,000
Kid Buu: 500,000,000
Goku's Chao Genki Dama: 550,000,000
* Vegeta states while Gohan is fighting Dabura that because Gohan had not trained in seven years, he has actually become WEAKER than he was when he fought Cell.

Those are my power levels. Love them, hate them, dispute them, or agree with them. That is what I have figured out, and that is the way I will keep them (unless a mistake involving 0s is found in here.

And if any of you want to debate these levels, be my guest

[stjames]

what about gt ??? like pam truks well goku when he turns small again ???

[Nantuko Joe]

what about gt like pam truks well goku when he turns small again

Oh, god. another fan of the royally $hitty GT...

1.) The series never officially happened. There's a SINGLE teeny event in GT that proves this fact. It's just like the DBZ movies: they never happened.

2.) Even if it DID happen, there is NO WAY to calculate pls for the GT series, because there's no way to compare them to the end of DBZ levels.

[pip99]

omg how do u know all that power level crap.. ;)

[Nantuko Joe]

Countless hours of watching DBZ, reading some of the manga pages, and hundreds of mathematical calculations.

[PARADISE-X]

Countless hours of watching DBZ, reading some of the manga pages, and hundreds of mathematical calculations.
#### :shocked:

[Nantuko Joe]

Yes, i know (I'm guessing you said "$hit"). Watching DBZ for like a week is fun, but trying to take note of subtle $hit and power statements is annoying. That, plus the fact that my computer and version of RealPlayer sucks, made it a very LONG process

[akuma_forever]

No offense.. but this is dumb(remember, no offense). It's hard to get a PL for SF, but what I know is that any SF can beat Mr. Satan, and Videl.


anyways, here are my Freiza saga PL's, they are the most accurate because I put it in a range, so instead of saying a PL of 1,000, and I'm not even sure if its at 1,000, I would say 500-1,500, I would know that it's inbetween those PL's.

(S)-stated in the manga

Raditz fight:
------------
Goku(weights): 334(S)
Goku(no weights): 416(S)
Piccolo(weights): 322(S)
Piccolo(no weights): 408(S)
Raditz: 1,200-1,250(S)
Goku(Kamehameha): 924-1,000(S)
Gohan: 1(S)
Gohan(crying): 710(S)
Gohan(angry): 1,307(S)
Piccolo(1st beam): 1,330(S)
Piccolo(2nd beam): 1,200-1,320


After battle
---------------
Piccolo(weights): 329(S)
Tenshinhan: 250(S)
Krillin: 206(S)
Yamucha: 177(S)
Chaotzu: 130-170
Kamesennin: 139(S)


Saiya-jin fight
---------------
Piccolo(max): 2,400-2,600(leaning on 2,500)
Yamucha(max) 1,250-1,310(leaning on 1,300)
Saibamen(each): 1,200(S)
Krillin(max): 1,400-1,700
Tenshinhan(max): 1,500-1,900
Tenshinhan(one armed kikohou): 2,000-2,300
Chaotzu(max): 1,010-1,100
Gohan: 1,010-1,100
Gohan(masenko): 2,800(S)
Nappa(max): 7,500-8,000
Goku(surpressed): 5,000(S)
Goku(max): 8,100(S)
Gohan(healed): 1,300-1,800
Vegeta: 16,000(S)
Vegeta(powered up): 18,000(S)
Goku(kaio-ken) 16,200(S)
Goku(kaio-ken*2): 16,200(increase of speed)(S)
Goku(kaio-ken*3): 24,000(loss of strength)
Vegeta(Gallic-hou): 24,000
Goku(kaio-ken*3+kamehameha): 24,000
Goku(kaio-ken*4): 24,000-28,000(loss of strength)
Goku(kaio-ken*4+kamehameha): 24,000-28,000
Vegeta(oozaru): 50,000-150,000(lossed strength from battle)
Gohan(oozaru): 5,000-16,000


Freiza saga:
--------------
Gohan: 1,500-2,000
Kuririn: 1,500-2,000
Freiza thugs: 1,100-1,500
Vegeta: 23,000-25,000
Kewie: 18,500-19,000
Dodoria: 21,000
Zaabon: 22,000
Namek warriors: 1,000(S)
Namek W(max): 3,000(S)
Zaabon(monster form): 28,000-30,000
Vegeta(healed against Zaabon in round 1): 30,000
Gohan(old namek power-up): 23,000-25,000
Kuririn(old namek power-up): 20,000-21,000
Gurudo: 1,000-10,000
Rikuum: 30,000-50,000
Baata: 30,000-50,000
Jisu: 30,000-50,000
Goku(surpressed): 5,000(S)
Goku(against Baata, Jisu, and Rikuum): 60,000(S)
Ginyu(using half power): 60,000
goku(max): 90,000(S)
Goku(kaio-ken): 180,000(S)
Ginyu(if at max): 120,000(S)
Ginyu(in Goku's body): 23,000(S)
Gohan(healed from Rikuum fight):27,000-35,000
Kuririn(healed from Rikuum fight): 25,500-27,000
Vegeta(healed from Rikuum fight): 100,000-160,000
Neiru: 42,000(S)
Freiza(form 1, 60%): 318,000
Pikkoro: 43,000-100,000
Vegeta(after rest): 340,000-370,000
Gohan: same PL against Ginyu(in Goku's body)
Kuririn: same PL against Ginyu(in Goku's body)
Freiza(form 1, 70%): 371,000
Freiza(form 1, if at max): 530,000(S)
Freiza(form 2, 60%): 600,000-1,100,000
Gohan(angry at Freiza form 2 attacks): 600,000-1,500,000
Kuririn(healed from Freiza form 2 attacks):30,000-40,000
Gohan(healed from Freiza form 2): 35,000-50,000
Pikkoro(fused with Neiru, wearing weights):500,000-1,100,000
Freiza(form 2, 90%): 900,000-1,500,000
Pikkoro(taking off weights): 900,000-1,650,000
Freiza(form 2, if at max):1,000,000-1,850,000
Freiza(form 3, 60%): 2,000,000-4,000,000
Gohan(angry at Freiza form 3): 1,800,000-3,800,000
Pikkoro(healed from Freiza form 2 attacks): 1,000,000-1,800,000
Freiza(form 3, if at max): 3,400,000-7,000,000


Freiza(form 4, 20%): 4,500,000-20,000,000
Vegeta(healed from Kuririn blast): Even with Freiza form 4 20%
Freiza(form 4, 30%): 6,750,000-30,000,000
Goku(if he used base): 620,000-2,800,000
Goku(kaio-ken*10): 6,200,000-28,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 50%): 11,250,000-50,000,000
Goku(kaio-ken*20, lossed some power): 10,000,000-49,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 70%): 15,750,000-70,000,000
SSJ Goku: Even with Freiza form 4, max
Freiza(form 4, max): 22,500,000-100,000,000
tark all i know is that those are toooo powerfull.

frieza-(form 4 MAX) 12,000,000
and ssj goku- (final fighting)18,000,000

those are just some of the examples of correct power levels :alien:

[Nantuko Joe]

tark all i know is that those are toooo powerfull.

frieza-(form 4 MAX) 12,000,000
and ssj goku- (final fighting)18,000,000

those are just some of the examples of correct power levels

Those levels YOU just listed aren't correct. Goku's level is still a tad high. Hell, the only way to get the correct levels is through mathematical calculations and comparisons

Freiza(form 4, 20%): 4,500,000-20,000,000
Vegeta(healed from Kuririn blast): Even with Freiza form 4 20%
Freiza(form 4, 30%): 6,750,000-30,000,000
Goku(if he used base): 620,000-2,800,000
Goku(kaio-ken*10): 6,200,000-28,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 50%): 11,250,000-50,000,000
Goku(kaio-ken*20, lossed some power): 10,000,000-49,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 70%): 15,750,000-70,000,000
SSJ Goku: Even with Freiza form 4, max
Freiza(form 4, max): 22,500,000-100,000,000

Now that akuma brings that up:

Tark, those Furiza levels are ridiculous. Remember that growth percentage chart I gave you in the SFvsDBZ debate? There's NO WAY that according to the recorded power growth of goku that he could have gotten levels even a quarter of the strength you have him at. 70 million and 100 million? Lemme list them again for you.

Goku Vs: Radditsu (w/o weighted clothing): 416
Goku's Kamehameha: 924

Now, we can consider his power level using the Kame Hame Ha as his max power. Now, the next level we have for Goku is while fighting Nappa.

Goku's kamehameha vs Radditsu: 924
Goku vs Nappa: around 8,000
% increase in power: 865%

Now, not counting Kaio-kens during this period, his max was around 8,000. The next level we have for him is on namek.

Goku Vs Nappa: 8,000
Goku on Namek: 90,000
% increase in power: 1,125%

Now, we can't determine the next time Goku maxes out without using the Kaio-ken, because he was using it the entire fight with Furiza. Therefore, the next max level we would have for Goku would be SSJ Goku at his max. Since you have Furiza listed at around 20 million, let's assume that Goku was also at 20 million (they were pretty evenly-matched during the fight.

Goku on Namek: 90,000
SSJ Goku: 20,000,000
% increase in power: 22,200%

22,200%! In about a day! For Goku to increase the 850% to fight Nappa, it took a whole year. To increase the 1,100% increase it took I think a month, while training under extremely harsh conditions (100x earths gravity). Now, for someone to make a 22,200% increase just by being healed and transforming in a day or so seems extremely unrealistic, even compared to normal DBZ growth levels. Better yet, you have Goku maxed at 100,000,000:

Goku on Namek: 90,000
SSJ Goku: 100,000,000
% increase in power: 111,111% increase!

THAT is damn near impossible, even by DBZ standards. There's no way in hell Goku got THAT strong THAT quick.

[TarkanX]

Joe: your PL's are just rip off copies from planet nameks, those arent your PL's.


frieza-(form 4 MAX) 12,000,000
and ssj goku- (final fighting)18,000,000


That is wrong, and those PL's are WAY too low.


Goku's level is still a tad high

lol


Tark, those Furiza levels are ridiculous. Remember that growth percentage chart I gave you in the SFvsDBZ debate? There's NO WAY that according to the recorded power growth of goku that he could have gotten levels even a quarter of the strength you have him at. 70 million and 100 million? Lemme list them again for you.

Yes there is, it has been stated, by the godly Dragon Ball experts that you need at least a 10% advantage at the minimum to be all over your opponent, where your opponent can't get a hit off of you, or only gets a few hits.

70 million and 100 million is Freiza's. His last form percentages were stated. He transformed at 20%, went up to 30% to kill Vegeta, and fight against Goku, went up to 50% to fight against Goku and kaio-ken*20, went to 70%, then went to max. And remember that I put a PL from something to another thing. so even if his PL might not be 100 million which is most likely, I put the range from 22 million - 100 million.



Goku's Kamehameha: 924

Raditz then says he is increasing after saying 924. But Raditz overwhelmed it.


Goku's kamehameha vs Radditsu: 924
Goku vs Nappa: around 8,000
% increase in power: 865%

924 wasn't Goku's max against Raditz, that was just him using dormant ki. Dormant ki is when you can go over your max using some type of special ki manipulation, like Kamehameha. And Goku's max vs. Nappa was "over 8,000. I'd put him at 8,100. Which is an increase of 1947%


Goku Vs Nappa: 8,000
Goku on Namek: 90,000
% increase in power: 1,125%

He was at 90,000 max when he fought Ginyu, he wasn't at 90,000(base level) when he fought Freiza.



Now, we can't determine the next time Goku maxes out without using the Kaio-ken, because he was using it the entire fight with Furiza. Therefore, the next max level we would have for Goku would be SSJ Goku at his max. Since you have Furiza listed at around 20 million, let's assume that Goku was also at 20 million (they were pretty evenly-matched during the fight.


You forgot to put Goku's base level against Freiza, even though he didn't use it.


Goku on Namek: 90,000
SSJ Goku: 20,000,000
% increase in power: 22,200%

22,200%! In about a day! For Goku to increase the 850% to fight Nappa, it took a whole year. To increase the 1,100% increase it took I think a month, while training under extremely harsh conditions (100x earths gravity). Now, for someone to make a 22,200% increase just by being healed and transforming in a day or so seems extremely unrealistic, even compared to normal DBZ growth levels. Better yet, you have Goku maxed at 100,000,000:


I didn't say Goku was at 20 million, I put a range for him, so he's between 22.5 million - 100 million, just like form 4 Freiza at max.

And again you forgot Goku's base level against Freiza which I put at between 620,000-2,800,000. And another thing, when Goku first turned SSJ, it gave him a huge increase. Which is probably at about 35x increase from his base.



You see... this is why I wanted to make a faq, for about DB"Z" power levels.

[princevegetam]

there is no way that any of the fighters had power levels over 100 million before the android saga. and what 20% or 70% are you talking about? where does it say that he had gone through all those stages?

[Nantuko Joe]

70 million and 100 million is Freiza's. His last form percentages were stated. He transformed at 20%, went up to 30% to kill Vegeta, and fight against Goku, went up to 50% to fight against Goku and kaio-ken*20, went to 70%, then went to max. And remember that I put a PL from something to another thing. so even if his PL might not be 100 million which is most likely, I put the range from 22 million - 100 million.

There's no way he got that high. Those levels are WAY too high

he's between 22.5 million - 100 million, just like form 4 Freiza at max

No way hes that high.

SSJ, it gave him a huge increase. Which is probably at about 35x increase from his base.


No way it was that much increse. and even if it was, the final power would be Goku at his max, period! Not powering up with %s like Furiza was doing. Lemme redo my growth charts:

Goku's max "dormant" power vs Radditsu: >924
Goku's max power vs Nappa: 8,100
Type of training in between battles: 10x earth's gravity
% increase: 876%

Goku's max power vs Nappa: 8,100
Goku's max base power vs Ginyu: 90,000
Type of training in between battles: healing from near-death experience, training in 100x earths' gravity
% increase: 1,111%

Goku's max base power vs Ginyu: 90,000
Goku's max base power vs Furiza: 300,000
Type of training in between battles: fighting, healing from near-death experience
% increase: 333%

Goku's max base power vs Furiza: 300,000
SSJ Goku's max power: prolly around 15,000,000
Type of training in between battles: intense fighting, devastation of body by use of the Kaio-ken, Super Saiya-jin Transformation
% increase: 5,000%, or 5x base power

Now, here is a run-down of the entire fight with Furiza

Vegeta: 270,000
Furiza: 270,000
Furiza (if at max): 530,000
Furiza Form 2: 1,060,000
Gohan vs Furiza Form 2: 1,070,600
Piccolo: around 400,000
Piccolo w/Nail, w/weighted clothes: 800,000
Piccolo w/Nail, w/o weights: 1,060,000
Furiza Form 3: 2,180,000
Gohan vs Furiza Form 3: 2,212,700
Furiza Form 4, 25%: 4,360,000
Vegeta (after healed by Dende): 1,350,000
Goku, Kaio-Ken x10: 4,300,500
Furiza Form 4, 50%: 8,720,000
Goku, Kaio-Ken x20: 8,601,000
Furiza Form 4, 75%: 13,080,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku: 15,000,000
Furiza Form 4, 100%: 17,440,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku, Max Power: 18,000,000


I sat in front of this computer with a calculator for an hour figuring these calculations. They're a little closer to your lower power calculations, but I still think your 100 million calcs are way too high.

[TarkanX]

there is no way that any of the fighters had power levels over 100 million before the android saga. and what 20% or 70% are you talking about? where does it say that he had gone through all those stages?

no one is over 100 million. And I'm saying form 4 Freiza's % were:

just transformed: 20%
powered up a bit: 30%
powered up some more: 50%
powered up some more: 70%
powered up to max: 100%

the last 3 are official, but if you do the calculations right, then it's obvious that those were his first 2 %.


Goku's max base power vs Furiza: 300,000

That's pretty low, and many debators would agree.



Vegeta: 270,000
Furiza: 270,000

Freiza should be a bit higher, which is obvious, and I believe Freiza should always be over 50% in all his stages except form 4(true form), and he powered up one frame in the manga, so he should be at 70%.



Furiza Form 2: 1,060,000

Though I agree with this PL, some people(debators) said that Freiza should be at around 1,500,000, but that's why I put a range for form 2 Freiza. Besides Freiza wasn't at max in form 2.


Gohan vs Furiza Form 2: 1,070,600

You put him a tad higher than form 2 Freiza max, which freiza wasn't at max in form 2, so this should be lowered, or whatever...



Piccolo: around 400,000

Way too high for normal Piccolo. Going from 2,500 - between 43,000-100,000 in a few is insane, but 400,000 just pushes it.


Piccolo w/Nail, w/o weights: 1,060,000

Piccolo should be at the same level as form 2 Freiza's max, he was even with form 2 Freiza at around 90% or so...


Furiza Form 3: 2,180,000
Gohan vs Furiza Form 3: 2,212,700
Furiza Form 4, 25%: 4,360,000
Vegeta (after healed by Dende): 1,350,000
Goku, Kaio-Ken x10: 4,300,500
Furiza Form 4, 50%: 8,720,000
Goku, Kaio-Ken x20: 8,601,000
Furiza Form 4, 75%: 13,080,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku: 15,000,000
Furiza Form 4, 100%: 17,440,000
Super Saiya-jin Goku, Max Power: 18,000,000

I'll do these later, maybe....

[darksamuria]

Kid Buu is weaker than the buu combined with everyone. You find this out because Goku SS3 didn't stand a chance against buu at first. Kid buu is buu when everyone was freed from his body. Goku was then strong enough to take on buu at the kid buu state. Goku then finished off buu with his spirt bomb. :D

[TarkanX]

Kid Buu is weaker than the buu combined with everyone. You find this out because Goku SS3 didn't stand a chance against buu at first. Kid buu is buu when everyone was freed from his body. Goku was then strong enough to take on buu at the kid buu state. Goku then finished off buu with his spirt bomb. :D
Thanks for the info but, I knew this 3 years ago.

[Gotenks13]

lol...Hey, I have a question. Do stores still sell the DBZ magna? I'm pretty sure, but I never see any in Wal-Mart. Only a couple of months ago, I had just realized that knew much less about DBZ than I thought. I can only count on the show, which really limits my knowledge. I really want to rival you guys in these debates, but I can't do that in a debate that I created.

I remember Nantuko Joe saying that a fully charged Shinkuu Hadouken can only destroy a car. Goku could do that the first time he tried the Kamehameha. Maybe that could help youwith SF PLs...but if you still can't do it, then forget SF...

[Nantuko Joe]

I remember Nantuko Joe saying that a fully charged Shinkuu Hadouken can only destroy a car. Goku could do that the first time he tried the Kamehameha. Maybe that could help youwith SF PLs...but if you still can't do it, then forget SF...
Actually, I'm pretty Tarkan said that

And Tarkan, sorry about leaving in the middle of the debate last nite, my parents pulled up, and my mom would have thrown a fit to see me on her comp at like 11:30 at night. Here is when I'm on AIM most:

Monday: until 9:00 AM
Tuesday: until 12:00 noon
Wednesday: until 9:00 AM, then from like 11:30 AM-1:45 PM
Thursday: until 12:00 noon
Friday: from like 1-2:45 PM

if I can get on any other time, I'll try to, but those are ususally the times I can get on.

Also, I was up until like 4:30 in the morning this morning with my Mac and a calculator figuring out the power levels from AFTER our debate ended (but you're prolly gonna find something wrong with them. Anyway, here the yare:

Radditsu Saga
Radditsu: 1,200 (s)
Farmer: 5 (s)
Piccolo (w/weights): 322 (s)
Piccolo (w/o weights): 408 (s)
Piccolo's 1st Makankosappo: 1,330
Piccolo's 2nd Makankosappo: 1,200-1,300
Goku (w/weights): 334 (s)
Goku (w/o weights): 416 (s)
Goku's Kamehameha: 924 (s)-1,000
Gohan: 1 (s)
Gohan crying: 1,307 (s)

After Battle
Muten Roshi: 139 (s)
Kuririn: 206 (s)
Tenshinhan: 250 (s)
Yamucha: 177 (s)
Piccolo w/weights: 329 (s)
Chaotzu: 130-150

Saiya-jin Saga
Yamucha: 1,300
Chaozu: 1,010-1,100
Tenshinhan: 1,500
-One-armed Kikoho: 2,100
Kuririn: 1,700
Piccolo: 2,500-3,000
Gohan: 1,100
-Masenko: 2,800 (s)
-Healed: 1,800
-Ozourou: 18,000
Saibamen: 1,200 ea
Goku: 5,000
-Powered up: 8,100
-Kaio-ken: 16,200
-Kaio-ken x2: 16,200 (increase in speed)
-Kaio-ken x3: 24,000 (power lowered due to stress)
-Kaio-ken x4: 28,000 (power lowered due to stress)
Nappa: 7,500
Vegeta: 16,000
-Powered up: 18,000
-Gallic Haou: 24,000
-Ozourou: 100,000-150,000
-vs Ozourou Gohan: 10,000-15,000 (power lowered due to stress)

Furiza Saga
Gohan: 1,500-2,000
-After power up: 18,000-20,000
-after healed: 23,000
Kuririn: 1,500-2,000
-power up: 17,000-19,000
-healed: 21,000
Furiza's Men: around 1,200
Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zaabon: 22,500
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-After Heal: 30,000-32,000
-max vs Rikum: 35,000-37,000
-Healed vs Jisu: 80,000

vs Ginyus
Rikum: 40,000
Baata: 45,000
Jisu: 50,000
Gerudo: 5,000-10,000
Ginyu: 120,000
-in Goku's Body: 23,000
Goku: 5,000 (supressed)
-vs Jisu and Baata: 60,000
-Max: 90,000
-Kaio-ken: 180,000

vs Furiza
Vegeta: 371,000
Furiza: 371,000
Furiza (if at max): 530,000
-Form 2: 1,060,000
Gohan: 1,219,000
Piccolo: 45,000
-w/Nail and weights: 870,000
-w/Nail and w/o weights: 1,060,000
Furiza Form 3: 2,120,000
Gohan: 2,438,000
Furiza Form 4, 25%: 4,240,000

*this is where the disagreement is prolly gonna start

Goku vs Furiza
Goku's base: 400,000
Furiza 25%: 4,240,000
Goku kkx10: 4,000,000
Furiza 50%: 8,480,000
Goku kkx20: 8,000,000
Furiza 75%: 12,272,000
SSJ Goku: 14,000,000
Furiza 100%: 16,961,000
SSJ Goku Max: 19,000,000

Trunks Saga
Kold: 17,000,000
Furiza Bot: 20,000,000
Trunks: 5 (supressed)
-SSJ: 23,500,000
SSJ Goku: 27,000,000

Android Saga
SSJ Goku: 33,000,000
-sick: <10,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 30,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 35,000,000
Piccolo: 8,000,000
Gohan's Max: 3,300,000
Kuririn: 230,000,000
Tenshinhan: 270,000,000
Yamucha: 58,500
Chaozu: 9,900
Android 20: 2,000,000
-19: 10,000,000
-18: 48,000,000
17: 50,000,000
16: 55,000,000
Piccolo w/Kami: 50,000,000
Cell: 50,000,000
-absorb humans: 55,000,000
-Semi Perfect: 88,000,000
-Perfect: 120,000,000
Tenshinhans' Kikoho: 80,000,000
SSJ Vegeta (after ROSAT): 105,000,000
SSJ Trunks (after ROSAT): 90,000,000
-USSJ: 110,000,000
-USSJ Max: 120,000,000

Cell Game
SSJ GOku: 115,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 110,000,000
USSJ Trunks: 120,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 115,500,000
A. 16: 55,000,000
Perfect Cell: 120,000,000
Cell Jr.s: 120,000,000 each
SSJ2 Gohan: 308,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 200,000,000
-Semi Perfect: 88,000,000
-after Regen: 338,800,000
SSJ2 Gohan's Kamehameha: 340,000,000

Buu Saga part 1
Piccolo: 100,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 11,545,000
-SSJ2: 290,017,000
Goten: 1,000,000
-SSJ: 35,000,000
Trunks: 1,142,000
-SSJ: 40,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 319,956,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 309,946,000
A. 18: 60,000,000
Kaioshin: 70,000,000
Kibito: 65,000,000
Yamu: 10,000,000
Supopovich: 10,000,000
Babidi: 5,000-10,000
Dabura: 300,000,000
Ma-Jinn Buu: 850,000,000
SSJ2 Ma-jin Vegeta: 320,000,000

Buu Saga Part 2
SSJ3 Goku: 831,885,600
Ma-Jin Buu (Evil Buu absorb Fat Buu): 900,000,000
Gotenks: 214,200,000
-SSJ: 750,000,000
-Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack: 910,000,000
-SSJ3: 900,000,000
Gohan w/Z Sword: 637,400,000
-Mystic: 1,247,900,000
Super Buu (SSJ3 Gotenks & Piccolo): 1,566,600,000
Super Buu (Trunks, Goten, & Piccolo): 967,427,000
Kaiobito: 1,350,000,000
Super Buu (Piccolo, Trunks, Goten, & Gohan): 1,817,427,000
Vegetto: 2,076,600,000
-SSJ2: 5,399,160,000
Super Buu (Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, Gohan, & SSJ2 Vegetto): 3,201,427,200
Kid Buu: 283,334,000
Vegeta: 2,895,099 (stressed)
-SSJ2: 263,444,000
Goku: 2,988,600 (stressed)
-SSJ2: 271,962,600
-Genki Dama: 3,000,000,000

[TarkanX]

Saiya-jin Saga
Yamucha: 1,300
Chaozu: 1,010-1,100
Tenshinhan: 1,500
-One-armed Kikoho: 2,100

Tenshinhan should be probably arround 1,800 if you don't put a range for him.


Kuririn: 1,700
Piccolo: 2,500-3,000
Gohan: 1,100
-Masenko: 2,800 (s)
-Healed: 1,800
-Ozourou: 18,000

Krillin should be lowered to around 1,500, just make Piccolo at 2,500, if you want to make a range for him, don't make his high range higher than 2,800.

Gohan when he got healed should be a tad higher than Krillin, and when he turns oozaru, he should lose some energy because before that, Vegeta kept beating Gohan down, and Gohan had trouble getting up.


Saibamen: 1,200 ea
Goku: 5,000
-Powered up: 8,100
-Kaio-ken: 16,200
-Kaio-ken x2: 16,200 (increase in speed)
-Kaio-ken x3: 24,000 (power lowered due to stress)
-Kaio-ken x4: 28,000 (power lowered due to stress)
Nappa: 7,500
Vegeta: 16,000
-Powered up: 18,000
-Gallic Haou: 24,000
-Ozourou: 100,000-150,000
-vs Ozourou Gohan: 10,000-15,000 (power lowered due to stress)

This is all good, but Vegeta's PL should be lowered when he's facing oozaru Gohan, because like you said, when Yajirobe slashed him, he was fealing pain realy hard, and he didn't seem as agile as when he recovered from the kamehameha.


Furiza Saga
Gohan: 1,500-2,000
-After power up: 18,000-20,000
-after healed: 23,000
Kuririn: 1,500-2,000
-power up: 17,000-19,000
-healed: 21,000

Krillin after power-up should be a bit lower than Zarbon(around 20,0000), and Gohan should be much ahead of him, probably 23,000-25,000. And when they get healed, Krillin should be at around 26,000. Vegeta(im sure it was him) stated that Krillin could've beaten Ginyu(in Goku's body) if he wanted to, and they were even in th fight, so it shows that Krillin wasn't trying as hard. Gohan should be be at least at 30,000(I put him between 29,000-35,000.



Furiza's Men: around 1,200
Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zaabon: 22,500
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-After Heal: 30,000-32,000
-max vs Rikum: 35,000-37,000
-Healed vs Jisu: 80,000

Freiza's men seem okay, so does Kui and Dodoria. Zarbon should be just at 22,000. 22,500 seems a bit high, Vegeta would have trouble beating Zarbon. His monster form is good, and his after heal is good. I don't know how he got over his max against Rikuum, when his max was against Giny(monster form in the 2nd match). I would just think Rikuum just wanted to get pummeled(seeing how he's an idiot).

When he's healed with the senzu seed and fighting against Jeice, he should be higher than Goku's max base(which was 90,000), but lower than Goku's kaio-ken level(which was 180,000). I'd put him between 100,000-160,000.


vs Ginyus
Rikum: 40,000
Baata: 45,000
Jisu: 50,000
Gerudo: 5,000-10,000
Ginyu: 120,000
-in Goku's Body: 23,000
Goku: 5,000 (supressed)
-vs Jisu and Baata: 60,000
-Max: 90,000
-Kaio-ken: 180,000

We figured out that Jeice is stronger than Baata, but we don't know which is stronger between Jeice and Rikuum, or if both Jeice and Baata are stronger than Rikuum. But I know why he came up with the Ginyu force. There was a japanese TV show (forgot what it was called), he liked it very much, so he based off the characters in the show to the Ginyu force. You can look at his interviews here:

http://www.dbz-fan.net/sections.shtml

you will see a link to his interviews, some interviews are stupid, so just scroll down.



vs Furiza
Vegeta: 371,000
Furiza: 371,000
Furiza (if at max): 530,000

Vegeta should't be even with Freiza, I'd put him at 340,000, which is a 9% advatage that Freiza has, not enough to dominate against Vegeta.


-Form 2: 1,060,000
Gohan: 1,219,000
Piccolo: 45,000
-w/Nail and weights: 870,000
-w/Nail and w/o weights: 1,060,000
Furiza Form 3: 2,120,000
Gohan: 2,438,000
Furiza Form 4, 25%: 4,240,000

This is the part where PL's just start to get out of hand, so you don't know which one is right(but this is where our friend range comes in).

Freiza didn't state his max was "over one million", he said his strength at the time was "over one million"(probably 1,060,000). so since he was using 60%(most likely his %, his max would be at) 1,700,000-1,800,000.

Piccolo should be between 43,000-100,000, and when he fuses with Nail, he was stated to be stronger thanFreiza(60%), then Freiza powered up to what is most likely 90%, and beat the crap out of Piccolo, then Piccolo took off his weights, and was about even with 90% Freiza.


Right after Furiiza transformed into his 3rd form, Gokuu states he can't do anything against this form of Furiiza, which pretty much means Furiiza had surpassed Gokuu's max of 1,800,000 with Kaiou-ken x20(90,000 * 20). I'd say Freiza form 3(60%) is between 2,000,000-2,300,000, so his max would be between 3,000,000-4,000,000.


Goku vs Furiza
Goku's base: 400,000
Furiza 25%: 4,240,000
Goku kkx10: 4,000,000
Furiza 50%: 8,480,000
Goku kkx20: 8,000,000
Furiza 75%: 12,272,000
SSJ Goku: 14,000,000
Furiza 100%: 16,961,000
SSJ Goku Max: 19,000,000


Where's Vegeta, and this is where Freiza saga gets really complicated, though the levels are pretty low, you've got the general facts almost right. Freiza should be at 20% first, then he poweres up to 30%, which kk*10 Goku, and Freiza face off. when Goku uses kk*20, his PL should be lowered, and Freiza uses 70%, not 75%. And SSJ Goku(max), and Freiza(max) should be even, but it's because freiza gets stressed, that Goku has the advantage.


I won't go into anything after the Freiza saga, since I don't know where to start


About your times, I most likely can't get there those times since I'll be asleep(most likely), but I'll try too.

[Nantuko Joe]

Tenshinhan should be probably arround 1,800 if you don't put a range for him.

Ok, how about 1,600-1,800

Krillin should be lowered to around 1,500, just make Piccolo at 2,500, if you want to make a range for him, don't make his high range higher than 2,800.

I'll put Kuririn at 1,550. Piccolo, however, should be near (or at) the 3,000 mark. When Nappa shot the beam at Gohan, and Piccolo jumped in the way, Piccolo was still standing up, and this surprised Nappa. I think that Piccolo should be a bit higher, maybe even at 3,100. I'll give him a range of 2,500-3,100

Gohan when he got healed should be a tad higher than Krillin, and when he turns oozaru, he should lose some energy because before that, Vegeta kept beating Gohan down, and Gohan had trouble getting up.

So, Gohan after healed: 1,800
Gohan after getting beatdown by Vegeta: 1,300
Ozourou Gohan: 13,000

This is all good, but Vegeta's PL should be lowered when he's facing oozaru Gohan, because like you said, when Yajirobe slashed him, he was fealing pain realy hard, and he didn't seem as agile as when he recovered from the kamehameha.

So Ozourou Vegeta: 100,000-150,000
-after tail chopped off: 10,000-15,000
-after slashed by Yajirobe: 9,000-11,000

Krillin after power-up should be a bit lower than Zarbon(around 20,0000), and Gohan should be much ahead of him, probably 23,000-25,000. And when they get healed, Krillin should be at around 26,000. Vegeta(im sure it was him) stated that Krillin could've beaten Ginyu(in Goku's body) if he wanted to, and they were even in th fight, so it shows that Krillin wasn't trying as hard. Gohan should be be at least at 30,000(I put him between 29,000-35,000.

You're right. So:
Gohan on Namek: 1,500-2,000
-after power up: 24,000
-after healed: 30,000
Kuririn on Namek: 1,500-2,000
-after power up: 21,000
-after healed: 26,000

Freiza's men seem okay, so does Kui and Dodoria. Zarbon should be just at 22,000. 22,500 seems a bit high, Vegeta would have trouble beating Zarbon. His monster form is good, and his after heal is good. I don't know how he got over his max against Rikuum, when his max was against Giny(monster form in the 2nd match). I would just think Rikuum just wanted to get pummeled(seeing how he's an idiot).

When he's healed with the senzu seed and fighting against Jeice, he should be higher than Goku's max base(which was 90,000), but lower than Goku's kaio-ken level(which was 180,000). I'd put him between 100,000-160,000.

Well, Vegeta prolly didn't power up to his max while fighting Zaabon, so he'd be at 30,000-32,000 powered up. However, when Vegeta prepared to fight Rikum, he was straining very hard to build up his power level, and had to try hard to get to his max. Therefore, I'm sticking with 35,000-37,000. And you're right about after Senzu power level: he'd be stronger than Goku's base, but not much. Here's my new chart:

Furiza's Men: around 1,200
Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zaabon: 22,000
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-After Heal, powered up: 30,000-32,000
-max vs Rikum: 35,000-37,000
-Healed vs Jisu: 110,000

Vegeta should't be even with Freiza, I'd put him at 340,000, which is a 9% advatage that Freiza has, not enough to dominate against Vegeta.

I don't think Furiza had THAT much of an advantage. They were about even when they grasped hands, and Furiza was really going at it. I'd give Furiza maybe a 5% advantage. So...

Furiza: 371,000
Vegeta: 352,450

Freiza didn't state his max was "over one million", he said his strength at the time was "over one million"(probably 1,060,000). so since he was using 60%(most likely his %, his max would be at) 1,700,000-1,800,000.

I don't think we can know for sure what Furiza was at. Since Furiza's max in form 1 was 530,000, his max in form 2 would be twice his max in form 1, which would leave us with 1,060,000. However, according to you, that's not the case. I believe that his power level in each form is twice his previous max, until he reaches Form 4. Because this is Furiza's natural form, he can reach a lot more power in this form, and therefore his 25% power would be twice that of his form 3 max (which I have at 2,120,000).

However, if Furiza was only at 60% power (as you say), that would mean that Furiza form 2 60% power would be 636,000, but that's WAY too low.

You and I are going to have to find out how to calculate Furiza's max in each form. This is what I just thought up of as I was typing the last sentence:

Furiza form 1 max: 530,000

Furiza Form 2, 50%: 1,060,000 (50% is 2x previous form's max)
Furiza Form 2, 60%: 1,272,000
Furiza Form 2 100%: 2,120,000 (100% is 2x 50%)

Furiza Form 3 50% power: 4,240,000 (50% is 2x previous max)
Furiza Form 3 100% power: 8,480,000(100% is 2x 50%)

Furiza Form 4 20%: 13,568,000
*note: Furiza Form 4 25% would be 2x Furiza Form 3 max*
Furiza Form 4 30%: 20,352,000
Furiza Form 4 50% power: 33,920,000
Furiza Form 4 70% power: 47,488,000
Furiza Form 4 100% power: 67,840,000

Therefore, Goku would be:
Goku's Base Power: 1,938,286
Goku Kaiokenx10:19,382,857
Goku Kaiokenx20: 38,765,720
SSJ Goku: 52,333,722 (27x base power)
SSJ Goku Max: 67,840,000

Tell me what you think of these. They make sense (mathematically), after all

[akuma_forever]

tark all i know is that those are toooo powerfull.

frieza-(form 4 MAX) 12,000,000
and ssj goku- (final fighting)18,000,000

those are just some of the examples of correct power levels

Those levels YOU just listed aren't correct. Goku's level is still a tad high. Hell, the only way to get the correct levels is through mathematical calculations and comparisons

Freiza(form 4, 20%): 4,500,000-20,000,000
Vegeta(healed from Kuririn blast): Even with Freiza form 4 20%
Freiza(form 4, 30%): 6,750,000-30,000,000
Goku(if he used base): 620,000-2,800,000
Goku(kaio-ken*10): 6,200,000-28,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 50%): 11,250,000-50,000,000
Goku(kaio-ken*20, lossed some power): 10,000,000-49,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 70%): 15,750,000-70,000,000
SSJ Goku: Even with Freiza form 4, max
Freiza(form 4, max): 22,500,000-100,000,000

Now that akuma brings that up:

Tark, those Furiza levels are ridiculous. Remember that growth percentage chart I gave you in the SFvsDBZ debate? There's NO WAY that according to the recorded power growth of goku that he could have gotten levels even a quarter of the strength you have him at. 70 million and 100 million? Lemme list them again for you.

Goku Vs: Radditsu (w/o weighted clothing): 416
Goku's Kamehameha: 924

Now, we can consider his power level using the Kame Hame Ha as his max power. Now, the next level we have for Goku is while fighting Nappa.

Goku's kamehameha vs Radditsu: 924
Goku vs Nappa: around 8,000
% increase in power: 865%

Now, not counting Kaio-kens during this period, his max was around 8,000. The next level we have for him is on namek.

Goku Vs Nappa: 8,000
Goku on Namek: 90,000
% increase in power: 1,125%

Now, we can't determine the next time Goku maxes out without using the Kaio-ken, because he was using it the entire fight with Furiza. Therefore, the next max level we would have for Goku would be SSJ Goku at his max. Since you have Furiza listed at around 20 million, let's assume that Goku was also at 20 million (they were pretty evenly-matched during the fight.

Goku on Namek: 90,000
SSJ Goku: 20,000,000
% increase in power: 22,200%

22,200%! In about a day! For Goku to increase the 850% to fight Nappa, it took a whole year. To increase the 1,100% increase it took I think a month, while training under extremely harsh conditions (100x earths gravity). Now, for someone to make a 22,200% increase just by being healed and transforming in a day or so seems extremely unrealistic, even compared to normal DBZ growth levels. Better yet, you have Goku maxed at 100,000,000:

Goku on Namek: 90,000
SSJ Goku: 100,000,000
% increase in power: 111,111% increase!

THAT is damn near impossible, even by DBZ standards. There's no way in hell Goku got THAT strong THAT quick.
i got them through a site nantuk ;)

[Gokan]

another vs ???

[TarkanX]

lol...Hey, I have a question. Do stores still sell the DBZ magna? I'm pretty sure, but I never see any in Wal-Mart. Only a couple of months ago, I had just realized that knew much less about DBZ than I thought. I can only count on the show, which really limits my knowledge. I really want to rival you guys in these debates, but I can't do that in a debate that I created.

I'm pretty sure they sell them, I remember they sold them at Toy's ur rus 3 years ago, it's dubbed, so no swearing, but hey, its better than the anime, and anime dub.

but go to this site:

http://www.dbz-fan.net/manga

download manga there, and if you need mroe help, contact me on AIM: CenturionMario


I remember Nantuko Joe saying that a fully charged Shinkuu Hadouken can only destroy a car. Goku could do that the first time he tried the Kamehameha. Maybe that could help youwith SF PLs...but if you still can't do it, then forget SF...

That was me that said that, and in SF, ki manipulation, and fighting skills are very different. Dhalsim can control a whole lot of ki, yet he can't beat Akuma.


Ok, how about 1,600-1,800

I'd put him at from 1,600-1,900, seems a bit more right.


I'll put Kuririn at 1,550. Piccolo, however, should be near (or at) the 3,000 mark. When Nappa shot the beam at Gohan, and Piccolo jumped in the way, Piccolo was still standing up, and this surprised Nappa. I think that Piccolo should be a bit higher, maybe even at 3,100. I'll give him a range of 2,500-3,100

Kriilin is okay, Piccolo shouldn't be at or above 2,800, Piccolo stated to Gohan, if yuo get mad, you'll become stronger than me. Piccolo is below 2,800, though I put him at 2,500, and I think you the same too.


So, Gohan after healed: 1,800
Gohan after getting beatdown by Vegeta: 1,300
Ozourou Gohan: 13,000

Gohan should be a tad higher than Krillin, maybe around 1,600. And I think Gohan would lose more power than that.


So Ozourou Vegeta: 100,000-150,000
-after tail chopped off: 10,000-15,000
-after slashed by Yajirobe: 9,000-11,000


This is good, but I think after he got his tail cut off, he got stressed a lot, so he lossed some power.


You're right. So:
Gohan on Namek: 1,500-2,000
-after power up: 24,000
-after healed: 30,000
Kuririn on Namek: 1,500-2,000
-after power up: 21,000
-after healed: 26,000

These are alright


Well, Vegeta prolly didn't power up to his max while fighting Zaabon, so he'd be at 30,000-32,000 powered up. However, when Vegeta prepared to fight Rikum, he was straining very hard to build up his power level, and had to try hard to get to his max. Therefore, I'm sticking with 35,000-37,000. And you're right about after Senzu power level: he'd be stronger than Goku's base, but not much. Here's my new chart:



Furiza's Men: around 1,200
Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zaabon: 22,000
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-After Heal, powered up: 30,000-32,000
-max vs Rikum: 35,000-37,000
-Healed vs Jisu: 110,000

Seems good, I still have some doubts about his PL against Rikuum, and maybe you should just put him between 100,000-160,000, when he gets healed, seems more accurate.



I don't think Furiza had THAT much of an advantage. They were about even when they grasped hands, and Furiza was really going at it. I'd give Furiza maybe a 5% advantage. So...

Furiza: 371,000
Vegeta: 352,450


Well they were about even, but Freiza clearly had the advantage, after they grasped hands, Vegeta was gasping for air, and Freiza felt as if nothing had happened to him, and if you want to have Freiza have a 5% advantage over Vegeta, don't make Vegeta's level that awkward. Levels haven't been that "retarded" since the Raditz saga. make him at least at 352,000, though I think he's at 340,000.



I don't think we can know for sure what Furiza was at. Since Furiza's max in form 1 was 530,000, his max in form 2 would be twice his max in form 1, which would leave us with 1,060,000. However, according to you, that's not the case. I believe that his power level in each form is twice his previous max, until he reaches Form 4. Because this is Furiza's natural form, he can reach a lot more power in this form, and therefore his 25% power would be twice that of his form 3 max (which I have at 2,120,000).

Why do you think his max would be twice his previous form(not including form 4)? And he started out at 20% in form 4. His % always and in "0" for obvious reasons.


However, if Furiza was only at 60% power (as you say), that would mean that Furiza form 2 60% power would be 636,000, but that's WAY too low.

Yeah, 636,000 is way too close to his form 1 max that's a 20% difference.


You and I are going to have to find out how to calculate Furiza's max in each form. This is what I just thought up of as I was typing the last sentence:

Furiza form 1 max: 530,000

Furiza Form 2, 50%: 1,060,000 (50% is 2x previous form's max)
Furiza Form 2, 60%: 1,272,000
Furiza Form 2 100%: 2,120,000 (100% is 2x 50%)

I don't think Freiza is ever at 50% in his first 3 forms, he is always at 60%, not including form 4. Freiza then powers up a few frames, so I would guess he's at 90%, since he seems so close to his max.


Furiza Form 3 50% power: 4,240,000 (50% is 2x previous max)
Furiza Form 3 100% power: 8,480,000(100% is 2x 50%)

Again, Freiza should be at 60%, and I think that's a pretty high level for Freiza. When Freiza transformed to form 3, Goku said he doesn't stand a chance, which he meant 90,000 with kaio-ken * 20 which is 1,800,000. I would at least put 60% form 3 Freiza at between 2,000,000-3,000,000, and max would be between 3,000,000-5,000,000.



Furiza Form 4 20%: 13,568,000
*note: Furiza Form 4 25% would be 2x Furiza Form 3 max*
Furiza Form 4 30%: 20,352,000
Furiza Form 4 50% power: 33,920,000
Furiza Form 4 70% power: 47,488,000
Furiza Form 4 100% power: 67,840,000

hmm.... these seem a bit awkward, but I don't know how to put it. The % and math calculations are right, but this is where you usually do range. These are mine, but I haven't put much work in form 4 Freiza's power levels.

Freiza(form 4, 20%): 4,500,000-20,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 30%): 6,750,000-30,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 50%): 11,250,000-50,000,000
Freiza(form 4, 70%): 15,750,000-70,000,000
Freiza(form 4, max): 22,500,000-100,000,000


Therefore, Goku would be:
Goku's Base Power: 1,938,286
Goku Kaiokenx10:19,382,857
Goku Kaiokenx20: 38,765,720
SSJ Goku: 52,333,722 (27x base power)
SSJ Goku Max: 67,840,000

Woah...! PL's are always ending in 0 after the Raditz saga, if you find a PL that doesn't end in 0, just round it off to the nearest. example: 333,333,333, round off to 333,000,000. 45,234 would be 45,000, etc... Anyways:

Goku should lose power when going into kaio-ken*20, and when he's at kk*20, he should be a tad lower than 50% Freiza not 12% higher.

You have Goku when just turning SSJ close to Freiza at 70%. When they fought, SSJ Goku beat the #### out of Freiza, and wasn't even touched.

We need to find a way to get right PL's, and agree with them. We've got the right mathematics, but wrong about the PL's.

I have a friend by the name of SSJ Scokou. He is one of the best DB"Z" debaters in the world, his AIM is Shyu Gyou. Maybe he can help us out on our PL's.


another vs

If you read it, then you will realise this is not a VS topic.

[Nantuko Joe]

I fixed everything, and you can check out my final chart below. Mods/Admins, if you see this post, delete this one, and not the one below it

[Nantuko Joe]

Tarkan, after our convo last night, I got to thinking: maybe you and I have a wrong pl for Furiza. I didnt' like the range, and this is why: During the convo, we both agreed on a range for Furiza, 20%: 7,200,000-10,800,000. However, if this were the case, the levels would conflict with each other. FOr example:

Furiza, 20%: 7,200,000-10,800,000
Furiza, 30%: 10,800,000-16,200,000

I doubt that his weakest in one % would be equal to his highest in another %

Furiza, 50%: 18,000,000-27,000,000
Furiza, 70%: 25,200,000-37,800,000
Furiza, 100%: 36,000,000-54,000,000

these are what really convinced me. I sincerely doubt that his max in one % would be STRONGER than his minimum at a higher %. It just doesn't seem right.

Then I remembered our convo. You said that Goku stated he can't beat Furiza Form 3, 60%. We both agree that Furiza 3, 60% had a power level of around 2,200,000. Now, if he cold take Furiza 2, 90%, but not Furiza 3, 60%, that would make Goku's base power somewhere between 1,900,000 and 2,100,000. For the sake of evenness and calculatability, I'm gonna say taht Goku's base power is 2 million even.

Now, if Goku's base power is 2 mill, then his Kaio-ken x10 level would be 20 million. Now, Furiza 4, 30% should be stronger than Goku KKx10, but not by much. So, this is what I figured out:

4 x (furiza 3rd form max)=14,400,00=Furiza Form 4 20%

5 x Furiza Form 4, 20%=72 million even

30% of 72 million is 21,600,000

Therefore, when Goku arrived and fought Furiza, Furiza was at about 21,600,000, and Goku's Kaiokenx10 was at 20 mil, making Furiza the bit stronger. Now we can figure out the rest of the Furiza Levels:

Furiza, 20%: 14,400,000
Vegeta (healed): somewhere around 1,730,000 (low because of my Trunks/Android Saga pls)
Furiza, 30%: 21,600,000
Goku's Base: 2,000,000
-kkx10: 20,000,000
Furiza, 50%: 36,000,000
Goku kkx20: 34,000,000 (still a bit weaker than Furiza)
Furiza, 70%: 50,400,000
Goku's Genki Dama: prolly 'round 47,000,000
-SSJ Goku: 60,000,000
Furiza, 100%: 72,000,000
SSJ Goku Max: 72,000,000

This way, we can figure out almost the exact level and at the same time eliminate the need for a range. It also gave me a stepping stone for figuring out new levels for the Trunks and Android saga, but I won't post them unless you want me to.

[Nantuko Joe]

Ok, Tark and I have finally finished up the power levels up through the Furiza Saga (The Trunks, Android, Cell, and Buu sagas should be here soon). Here are the power levels:

Radditsu Saga
Farmer: 5
Goku w/weight: 334
-w/o weight: 416
-Kamehameha: 924-1,00
Piccolo w/weight: 322
-w/o weight: 408
-Makankosappo: 1,330
-2nd try: 1,200-1,300
Gohan: 1
-enraged: 1,307
Radditsu: 1,200

After Battle
Muten Roshi: 139
Kuririn: 206
Tenshinhan: 250
Yamucha: 177
Piccolo w/weight: 329
Chaozu: 130-150

Saiya-jin Saga
Yamucha: 1,300
Chaozu: 1,010-1,100
Piccolo: 2,500-2,750
Tenshinhan: 1,800
--one-armed Kikohou: 2,100
Kuririn: 1,500
-healed: 1,700
Gohan: 1,100
-Masenko: 2,800
-healed with Senzu: 1,800
-beat-up by Vegeta: 1,000
-Ozourou: 10,000
Saibamen: 1,200 each
Nappa: 7.500
Goku: 5,000
-Max: 8,100
-Kaioken: 16,200
-KKx2: 16,200 (increase in speed)
-KKx3: 24,000
-KKx4: 28,000
Vegeta: 16,000
-Max: 18,000
-Gallic Haou: 24,000
-After Kamehameha: 10,000-15,000*
-Ozourou: 100,000-150,000
-No tail, vs Ozourou Gohan: 7,000-8,000**
*Because of the damage caused by the Kamehameha, Vegeta's PL would have been lowered drastically
**After Yajirobe sliced off Vegeta's tail and sliced through Vegeta's armor, Vegeta seemed totally thrashed, and thusly would have had his power lowered even more.

Furiza Saga
Gohan: 2,000
-Power up: 23,000
Kuririn: 2,000
-Power up: 21,000
Furiza's Men: 1,200 each
Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zarbon: 22,000
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-healed, vs Zarbon Monster 2nd try: 30,000-32,000*
*Vegeta was stronger than Zarbon Monster, but due to the fact he had to use some "dirty" tricks (ie, sand in the eyes), we can assume that he wasn't TAHT MUCH stronger than Zarbon Monster

Ginyu Force
Gerudo: 5,000-10,000
Rikum: 45,000*
Baata: 39,000*
Jisu: 42,000*
Ginyu: 120,000
-in Goku's Body: 23,000
Gohan: 23,000
-senzu: 28,000-30,000
Kuririn: 21,000
-senzu: 26,000
Vegeta (supressed): 24,000
-power up: 30,000-32,000
-Max: 35,000-37,000
-senzu, vs Jisu: 115,000**
Goku: 5,000 (supressed)
-vs Jisu and Baata: 60,000
-Max: 90,000
-Kaioken: 180,000
*here is how we figured out the levels for Baata, Jisu, and Rikum. Rikum has the greatest pure strength and stamina of the three, but the lowest speed. Therefore, he would have the highest power level. Judging from this, we can say that since Baata had the fastest speed, he had the lowest strength. Since speed does not impact pure power, his power level would have been the lowest of the three. Now, going by this, we can assume that Jisu was stronger than Baata (in anime, usually the person who simply lasts the longest has a higher PL). Since Jisu was stronger and slower than Baata, but weaker and faster than Rikum, we get his power level in the middle
**We figured that Vegeta's power level after getting healed would be higher than Goku's base power level. However, it is stated that Vegeta, due to stress and lack of sleep for several days, actually had his power level lowered. Therefore, his 115,000 power against Jisu would be even higher, probably around 125,000-130,000 if he was not tired and stressed

Furiza vs nail
Furiza, 60%: 318,000
Nail: 42,000
Piccolo (w/weight): 48,000
Piccolo (w/weight, fused with Nail): 1,500,000

Vs Furiza
Vegeta Max: 346,000
Furiza, 70%: 371,000
-If at max: 530,000
-Form 2, 60%: 1,060,000
Gohan: 1,200,000
Furiza, 80%: 1,400,000
Piccolo w/weight: 1,500,000
Furiza, 90%: 1,600,000
Piccolo w/o weight: 1,600,000
Kuririn healed: 30,000-40,000
Furiza Form 3, 60%: 2,200,000
Gohan: 2,300,000
Furiza Form 4, 20%: 10,800,000
Piccolo healed: 2,000,000

Final Fight
Furiza, 20%: 10,800,000
Vegeta healed, max: 10,800,000
Furiza, 30%: 16,200,000
Goku's base: 1,500,000
-KKx10: 15,000,000
Furiza, 50%: 27,000,000
Goku KKx20: 24,800,000
Furiza, 70%: 37,800,000
Goku's Genki Dama: 30,000,000
SSJ Goku: 45,000,000
Furiza 100%: 54,000,000*
SSJ Goku Max: 54,000,000*
*upon seeing these levels, asshole made this statement:
In th final battle, Frieza's n Goku's power level cant be same, cuz remember Goku was winning?
A good point, but many ppl fail to remember: It is stated in both the anime and the manga that due to stress and tiredness, Furiza's power level was lowered to the point where he was no longer a challenge for SSJ Goku at max power. Therefore, for most of the fight, they were even, but at the end of the fight, Furiza's power level dropped to around 48,600,000

[TarkanX]

Radditsu Saga
Farmer: 5
Goku w/weight: 334
-w/o weight: 416
-Kamehameha: 924-1,00
Piccolo w/weight: 322
-w/o weight: 408
-Makankosappo: 1,330
-2nd try: 1,200-1,300
Gohan: 1
-enraged: 1,307
Radditsu: 1,200


All accurate


After Battle
Muten Roshi: 139
Kuririn: 206
Tenshinhan: 250
Yamucha: 177
Piccolo w/weight: 329
Chaozu: 130-150

These are nice too



Saiya-jin Saga
Yamucha: 1,300
Chaozu: 1,010-1,100
Piccolo: 2,500-2,750
Tenshinhan: 1,800
--one-armed Kikohou: 2,100
Kuririn: 1,500
-healed: 1,700

Tenshinhan should be at least at 1,840

Kurirn should be at least at 1,520, and should get an increase after healing



Gohan: 1,100
-Masenko: 2,800
-healed with Senzu: 1,800
-beat-up by Vegeta: 1,000
-Ozourou: 10,000
Saibamen: 1,200 each

This seems okay


Nappa: 7.500
Goku: 5,000
-Max: 8,100
-Kaioken: 16,200
-KKx2: 16,200 (increase in speed)
-KKx3: 24,000
-KKx4: 28,000
Vegeta: 16,000
-Max: 18,000
-Gallic Haou: 24,000
-After Kamehameha: 10,000-15,000*
-Ozourou: 100,000-150,000
-No tail, vs Ozourou Gohan: 7,000-8,000**
*Because of the damage caused by the Kamehameha, Vegeta's PL would have been lowered drastically
**After Yajirobe sliced off Vegeta's tail and sliced through Vegeta's armor, Vegeta seemed totally thrashed, and thusly would have had his power lowered even more

You didn't have to put Vegeta's PL vs oozaru Gohan



Furiza Saga
Gohan: 2,000
-Power up: 23,000
Kuririn: 2,000
-Power up: 21,000
Furiza's Men: 1,200 each

hmm... when Kuririn powered up against Gurudo, Vegeta sensed a weaker form of Zaabon(form 1) which was Kuririn, but when the scouter clicked, Gohan and Kuririn were said to be over 10,000. I'd put them between 11,000-15,000.


Kui: 18,500
Dudoria: 21,000
Zarbon: 22,000
-Monster: 28,000-30,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-healed, vs Zarbon Monster 2nd try: 30,000-32,000*
*Vegeta was stronger than Zarbon Monster, but due to the fact he had to use some "dirty" tricks (ie, sand in the eyes), we can assume that he wasn't TAHT MUCH stronger than Zarbon Monster

this is right



Ginyu Force
Gerudo: 5,000-10,000
Rikum: 45,000*
Baata: 39,000*
Jisu: 42,000*
Ginyu: 120,000
-in Goku's Body: 23,000
Gohan: 23,000
-senzu: 28,000-30,000
Kuririn: 21,000
-senzu: 26,000
Vegeta (supressed): 24,000
-power up: 30,000-32,000
-Max: 35,000-37,000
-senzu, vs Jisu: 115,000**
Goku: 5,000 (supressed)
-vs Jisu and Baata: 60,000
-Max: 90,000
-Kaioken: 180,000

I would put Kuririn at 28,000, and Gohan between 29,000-33,000. And We both arent sure about Vegeta, so I'd put him between 100,000-150,000.



Furiza vs nail
Furiza, 60%: 318,000
Nail: 42,000
Piccolo (w/weight): 48,000
Piccolo (w/weight, fused with Nail): 1,500,000

seems good


Vs Furiza
Vegeta Max: 346,000
Furiza, 70%: 371,000
-If at max: 530,000
-Form 2, 60%: 1,060,000
Gohan: 1,200,000
Furiza, 80%: 1,400,000
Piccolo w/weight: 1,500,000
Furiza, 90%: 1,600,000
Piccolo w/o weight: 1,600,000
Kuririn healed: 30,000-40,000
Furiza Form 3, 60%: 2,200,000
Gohan: 2,300,000
Furiza Form 4, 20%: 10,800,000
Piccolo healed: 2,000,000

I'd put form 3 freiza 60% at 2,120,000(a 2x increase from his form 2 60% level.

I have Gohan's rage below form 3 Freiza, but Gohan had a upper hand at first, maybe he got tired a while later, and Freiza threw it at him

Piccolo shouldn't get an increase, and if he did, it would be very minor.


Final Fight
Furiza, 20%: 10,800,000
Vegeta healed, max: 10,800,000
Furiza, 30%: 16,200,000
Goku's base: 1,500,000
-KKx10: 15,000,000
Furiza, 50%: 27,000,000
Goku KKx20: 24,800,000
Furiza, 70%: 37,800,000
Goku's Genki Dama: 30,000,000
SSJ Goku: 45,000,000
Furiza 100%: 54,000,000*
SSJ Goku Max: 54,000,000*

you don't have to put the Genki-dama level, or Goku when he just turned SSJ, but these are good(unless someone finds a way to counter them).

[Nantuko Joe]

Tenshinhan should be at least at 1,840


Kurirn should be at least at 1,520, and should get an increase after healing

Okay, I'll fix them. And I already raised Kuririn's power level due to healing (the 1,700 level)

hmm... when Kuririn powered up against Gurudo, Vegeta sensed a weaker form of Zaabon(form 1) which was Kuririn, but when the scouter clicked, Gohan and Kuririn were said to be over 10,000. I'd put them between 11,000-15,000.

However, the fight with Gerudo took place AFTER getting the power-up from Saichorou (Guru), and you and I agreed that after getting that power up, Gohan and Kuririn were at 23,000 and 21,000, respectively.

I would put Kuririn at 28,000, and Gohan between 29,000-33,000. And We both arent sure about Vegeta, so I'd put him between 100,000-150,000.


I'll fix Vegeta, but you're beginning to change the levels that we BOTH agreed on...(Kuririn and Gohan)

I'd put form 3 freiza 60% at 2,120,000(a 2x increase from his form 2 60% level.

During one of our AIM debates, I suggested Furiza 3, 60% with a power of 2,120,000, and that I should round it off to 2,100,000 (you told me to round off any power levels during this period to the nearest hundred-thousand), you said it was too low, and to change the PL to 2,200,000. Then we both originally agreed that Gohan was definately a TIDBIT stronger than Furiza, but since Gohan was running on rage, his body couldn't hold the rage anymore, and he weakened a bit (allowing Furiza to push back the blast). But you originally stated that Gohan was stronger than Furiza at the time

I have Gohan's rage below form 3 Freiza, but Gohan had a upper hand at first, maybe he got tired a while later, and Freiza threw it at him

You shouldn't have his rage below Furiza 3, because we both agreed that it was a bit higher, and due to stress (and lack of maintaining rage), Gohan weakened and Furiza pushed back the blast

Piccolo shouldn't get an increase, and if he did, it would be very minor.

I was just trying to round him off. It would have made guessing later PLs a little easier (as far as numbers go). But I guess, you're right, I'll leave it at 1,600,000

you don't have to put the Genki-dama level, or Goku when he just turned SSJ, but these are good(unless someone finds a way to counter them

I guess I didn't have to put a PL for the Genki Dama, but the PL for when Goku first went SSJ seemed essential, because it would explain why Furiza began to have the upper hand after he began using 100% power. THEN Goku powered up to max, and they were even.

[TarkanX]

Okay, I'll fix them. And I already raised Kuririn's power level due to healing (the 1,700 level)

Bargh..! I meant he shouldn't increase after getting healed, I always make typos(almost).


However, the fight with Gerudo took place AFTER getting the power-up from Saichorou (Guru), and you and I agreed that after getting that power up, Gohan and Kuririn were at 23,000 and 21,000, respectively.

Saichiorou came first, then they fought Gurudo. Vegeta said he senses a weaker Zaabon(form 1). Kurirn shouldn't be at 21,000. At least between 11,000-19,000. Gohan the same as well, but should be higher than kuririn.


I'll fix Vegeta, but you're beginning to change the levels that we BOTH agreed on...(Kuririn and Gohan)


hmm....


During one of our AIM debates, I suggested Furiza 3, 60% with a power of 2,120,000, and that I should round it off to 2,100,000 (you told me to round off any power levels during this period to the nearest hundred-thousand), you said it was too low, and to change the PL to 2,200,000. Then we both originally agreed that Gohan was definately a TIDBIT stronger than Furiza, but since Gohan was running on rage, his body couldn't hold the rage anymore, and he weakened a bit (allowing Furiza to push back the blast). But you originally stated that Gohan was stronger than Furiza at the time

I did say that but doubling your power from 1,060,000 to 2,120,000 seems way more clear than going to 2,200,000, doesn;t it?

[Nantuko Joe]

I did say that but doubling your power from 1,060,000 to 2,120,000 seems way more clear than going to 2,200,000, doesn;t it?

True, but if you change it from 2.2 million to 2.12 million, it will fcuk up all of Furiza and Goku's power levels from that point on