Hell there is a hell... - I'm not playing with you...=/

[SBYRD5]

Natural Geographic Site On Hell (http://www.av1611.org/hell.html)

There is a Hell....I'm going to dedicate my life to god now.....seriousily. ???

[Hollis]

yes, that's why i, beleive in God, pray every night, morning, try to go to church every sunday, and obey the Lord, and his Ten Commandments. so when Jesus Christ comes i know that i won't be trapped in the gates of hell..



Edited By Hollis on Mar. 17 2004 at 13:16

[Roll]

The most interesting part in this article, as that it gives new meaning to the phrase "Hell on Earth". But I do like how they used big fonts, and red colors to add drama. However, the prayer at the very bottom of the page disturbs me; and I'll be surprised if it disturbs no one else.

Plus, another question arises. What about those who have not gone into the religion of Christianity/Catholicism? Many religions exist without a Jesus being important, and without a virgin giving birth to a child. So, now, another test of your mind appears before you, where you have to realize your own truth for and by yourself.
Will you give in to darkness... or be swallowed by the light?



Edited By Roll on Mar. 16 2004 at 15:23

[Saijin_Ryu]

Religion has no place with me.

[Bob~Marley4004]

i been saying this ! im so glad u dedicated ur life !

[pip99]

..........MeH

;)

[Bob~Marley4004]

go to yahoo and search for a book call, the divine revalation of hell ! :biggrin:

[pip99]

Made an interesting read.

[SBYRD5]

Your Taking This For a Joke I Love You All.(as Weak as that sounds)

I've never been more serious.

Perphaps my daily ignorance makes you view me as a constant Jester. :angry:

Here study this Article. From a person who also didn't believe in Hell.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>The following article appeared in the well respected Finland newspaper, Ammenusastia</span>

http://www.av1611.org/images/hell1.jpg

http://www.av1611.org/images/hell2.jpg=<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>[i]"As a communist I don

[Roll]

It may not be a joke, but it is still wrong to try and sway other people's judgements with a newspaper article like they did. Anyone who would start saying "Praise God now, lest you should burn like a chicken on a barbeque!" is a type of person who I would believe to be filled with follies, have concerns that are too irrational, and keep lax morals.

[SBYRD5]

What if one never had morals to begin with.....or perphaps already believed in a GOD and this site helped support there believe even more.

Yeah I suppose to randomily decide to praise him in fear...would only prove that your faith was never strong to begin with....But GOD is mighty....and you should phear his wrath if you don't believe in him....

But well the FACT is this.

There is a hell take it how you want...=1



Edited By SBYRD5 on Mar. 17 2004 at 23:41

[Roll]

There has always been a hell, with or without the influence of a god. It shouldn't take an article to tell you that; especially since it's pretty obvious in the first place.

[SBYRD5]

True,

But The Article Helped Support what was Already Clear.

And To some ofus that aren't as fast as others needed the influence of an article such as this...



Edited By SBYRD5 on Mar. 17 2004 at 23:49

[Roll]

What are you trying to say? That people who don't jump to a "supposed super being's" supposed feet to worship and praise them in order to save themselves from something that they can avoid just as easily by smiling are slow?

Like I said on BG.....

That site is not PROOF that hell exists.

There IS NO PROOF that hell exists. So SBYRD, stop saying that hell is a FACT, becuase it's NOT.

Sure, you can take your biblical interpretations and whatnot, but it's still not proof. It's belief.

Let's take a look at that site now, shall we?

[quote][i]"Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!" He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death. . . Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling

[vx_unicom]

Religion has no place with me.
so are u saying only hell has a place for u?? ???

[Zpower]

Actually... Shauku makes a good point you cant just go by what some half twit says on his site. Its important to get absolute facts. Though very interesting indeed. If hell was really on earth then why could man destroy earth with nuclear bombs. In doing so destroying "hell" and earth alone wit with. REALLY hard to belive that one. Continuing I do think there is a hell but not on Earth would be useless if hell was "INSIDE THE EARTH'S CORE" because our techonology is so advanced would be able to blow hell to well hell though the earth would blow up alone with it though. Religion is a fun topic to debate on everyone has their own opinions. Just treat everyone right and be kind and if there is a hell you're be alright and if there isnt you'll be alright. Though think in few more years I prob wont live to see it. Scientist would have discovered life in space and EVERYONES life would change and everything thereof would also so who knows whats going to happen.

Basically, there is no proof of hell. The only evidence to support the existence of hell is the fact that the center of the earth is an enormous cavern completely filled with molten rock and metal and is what warms the earth, as well as light from the sun. Hell, it's not even coincidence that the bible says hell is underground. Back then, people still thought the earth was flat, because they thought that the sun orbited the earth (as stated in the bible). Therefore, the only two places not on earth were above the earth and below the earth. Therefore, to say that "Hell must be real, because the bible predicted a place of fire and brimstone under the ground, and there really is the core of the planet filled with magma" is BS.

so are u saying only hell has a place for u??

No, he's saying that he doesn't believe in hell, because he doesn't believe in religion.

[Angel-Eyes]

Oh, I see. So just because the bible claims that hell exists, then it must really exist.


yeah, didnt you know that the Bible is the truth?

Oh, I see. So just because the bible claims that hell exists, then it must really exist.


yeah, didnt you know that the Bible is the truth?
I really hope you're just being sarcastic.

[pip99]

Oh, I see. So just because the bible claims that hell exists, then it must really exist.


yeah, didnt you know that the Bible is the truth?
I really hope you're just being sarcastic.
hes not.

[MasterX05]

pffft all BS its amuses me to see how alot of relgions come up with stuff to scare the living $hit out of thier kids. My mothers family are Jehovahs Witness. They truly believe in Demons and think they are the cuase of bad things happening in the world. DEMONS wtf I tried to keep a straight face when my uncle told me this. They also do not vote nor do they celebrate any holidays, no Chrismas, Birthdays...etc Another thing that makes me luagh is this hell. Reading that site it looks like they think that by there being Mantle, and Liquid inside the earth it is prove. All the other plantes have some of the same things inside of them. The Earth is still cooling down the outer layer is the crust.

Hell lol demons lol. A girl once told me that its a sin to have sex on a sunday. :shocked: Im not trying to pick on anyones religion, but I find things like this Hilarious. Do you remember How the Pharohs of Egypt were buried with all thier riches and most vaule items. They did it thinking it would carry over with them to the after life. But lil did they know some whack so called discovery brake into the tomb stealing thier riches and giving/selling them away or to Museums. Not sure about u but if some guys broke in my tomb stole all my poop I would be pissed.

[Angel-Eyes]

we'll see whos laughing in at the most 100 years.

lucifer will be laughing his ass off at you cause you fell for it.

[MasterX05]

Fell for what? I have nothing to fear. Wasting ur time Kester wating for the return of Jesus Christ. If he ever would come ppl of earth would have killed thier selfs off or the Earth would be a waste land with no life.


Edit:
Just read the article about the miners digging down to the so called "gates of hell". I have to agree with Joe on this. There is no metal nor any item in a mircrophone able to substain that kind of heat. 2000

[Angel-Eyes]

If he ever would come
its not a question of "if" , but a question of "when".

and to answer that, it will probably be soon. and when i say soon i mean like within the century.

so unless you repent, you will either die and go to hell or He will come back and send you there Himself. :buttrock:

[MasterX05]

I know one ofuwill do it I dont care but bring up the lil verse in ur Bible. That says the time he will come, ever since I was little I always heard he will come soon. Throw me in hell I dont think so there is no hell guy. Im gonna get threw collage live my life have wife and son retire then die. There is nothing more to life then creating life!

[Elena]

Eh, I'm a Catholic...I'm suppposely suppose to be the most holiest person, but whatever.

Anyways, my point is just believe in something, anything good because you never know he just might be real. How much would it hurt just to open up the bible and read one little verse and pray a little prayer?

There might not be no hell or no heaven, but I rather not think of maggots eatting my body. So I just believe.

[MasterX05]

People make heaven sound perfect, like it is paradise. Which I cant say for sure myself. You just dont know Heaven may not be so hype up to go to, thats why I dont go around saying things or doing things to get in heaven. That is if there is one.

[ledmonkey]

<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>Well my own religion ( a religion that is actually mine..... ) doesn't belive in prophets.....so am I going to hell.....?

Sounds ugly to me........even if I lead a good life but I don't belive in Jesus I goto hell........</span>

[marvel911]

<span style='font-size:25pt;line-height:100%'>HELL IS A PLACE OF TORMENT</span>
Prove that statement right there...have you ever been to hell?...Have you ever known someone who has been to hell?..No you have not. So how do you even know if their is a heaven or hell..and dont give me no BS about "the bible says this, the bible says that". Nobody on earth knows if heaven or hell does exist..just because there is a core to the earth where it is extremely hot doesnt make it a hell. Nobody knows what happens when we die...but I doubt our souls are judged by some big, holy figure...after all, if you wanna go by the bible, each and every one ofus are born with sin..so we'd all go to the hell you believe in.

If he ever would come
its not a question of "if" , but a question of "when".

and to answer that, it will probably be soon. and when i say soon i mean like within the century.

so unless you repent, you will either die and go to hell or He will come back and send you there Himself. :buttrock:
No, it's an "if."

You have no proof that the christian/catholic religion is of any accuracy. Science has already proven aspects of the Bible to be FALSE, yet you people continue your bible-thumping.

Tell me, what PROOF do you have that Jesus Christ will come back from the dead and the Book of Revelations will actually occur? What PROOF do you have that there exists a heaven and a hell? What PROOF do you have that your religion is correct, and all other religions are wrong?

Yeah, that's another thing. You're forgetting that there are hundreds of other religions in the world. Who are you to say that they are wrong and you are right? What proof do you have that your religion is more accurate than any other? For all you know, when you die, instead of going to heaven or hell, you could be reincarnated as a panda. I even asked a catholic once, "so are you saying that despite the fact you have no evidence to prove your religion's accuracy, anyone not of the catholic religion will go to hell?"

And he said "yes, because I'm taught that my god is the only god, and anyone who worships any other god will go to hell."

How pompous, to believe you can persecute others because they do not share your beliefs that aren't even supported to be true themselves.

[AkumaShoto]

there is no hell...they show the location of hell so why don't you take a visit? No one will...when you die you are most probably going to be another human being with no memories.

[akuma_forever]

Here's my opinion on this matter.

I have always believed that HELL exists, in one form or another. But i seriously doubt that it is in the earth's core, that part of the artical sounded like a bunch of BS.

If there was no " HELL " no " Heaven " no " GOD ", what would be our purpose? Life would be a complete waste! We would just be a coincidence. Take a look at the beuty of the universe, All of this simply CANNOT be coincidence. all of this would be a " Result " of some crazy theory, such as the " Big Bang Theory ". Take a look at the perfectness of the earth. If the earth was to tilt 1 degree to the left or to the right, we all would get flung out into space so fast that our bones would be ripped out of our bodies. Tell me that is a coincident, No way in HELL it is. So there has to be a God - of some sort, who created all of this, and is holy. So there has to be a HELL for people who do not worship him. Saying this there should also be a heaven, a place of paradise, no pain, sickness suffering, no darkness. Where the streets are paved with gold and you are happy forever.



There simply has to be a Hell!



Edited By akuma_forever on Mar. 19 2004 at 08:04

[Angel-Eyes]

Science
science.....ah yes science


to answer your question about proof:

there is no proof at this time except the bible.

but to beleive that the Bible is true you have to have FAITH.



science also requires faith to beleive it.

[coolplayer2K2]

there isnt any proof there is a hell.I mean cmon if youdie then u die and thats it. u cant feel anything... cant see anything... or hear anything and dats all that happens. pretty soon ur body rots away and turns to skeletons. so u think u go to a graveyard and the devil took someones body and took them to hell????? so wudn the body dissapear.anyway how does anyone no about hell.. if yougo to the center of the earth ull burn in 1 second. so i gotta agree with joe and masterx. Most intelligent award goes to Joe lol...plus who wrote the bible anyway???

EDIT:akuma said ur gonna be another human without memmories. that wud be the life! tho it mite happen u never no!



Edited By coolplayer2K2 on Mar. 19 2004 at 08:33

[vx_unicom]

Here's my opinion on this matter.

I have always believed that HELL exists, in one form or another. But i seriously doubt that it is in the earth's core, that part of the artical sounded like a bunch of BS.

If there was no " HELL " no " Heaven " no " GOD ", what would be our purpose? Life would be a complete waste! We would just be a coincidence. Take a look at the beuty of the universe, All of this simply CANNOT be coincidence. all of this would be a " Result " of some crazy theory, such as the " Big Bang Theory ". Take a look at the perfectness of the earth. If the earth was to tilt 1 degree to the left or to the right, we all would get flung out into space so fast that our bones would be ripped out of our bodies. Tell me that is a coincident, No way in HELL it is. So there has to be a God - of some sort, who created all of this, and is holy. So there has to be a HELL for people who do not worship him. Saying this there should also be a heaven, a place of paradise, no pain, sickness suffering, no darkness. Where the streets are paved with gold and you are happy forever.



There simply has to be a Hell!
Well said akuma forever, there is no way all this is a coincidence, JOE don't even compare science to the bible.
Joe are u saying that creation just began by its self without a source. Example: when turning on the lights, it just can light by its self, there is a source of energy that makes the bulb light which is the power source, batteries,generators,extra. same thing with the Universe everything into place the sun, planets,stars, extra. There must be a source of energy that created them which concludes to the existence of GOD, no man has the wisdom or strength to create such beauty. THERE IS A HELL, THERE IS ALSO A GOD and a HEAVEN. Joe ur not as smart as u think u are if yousay there is no God, everything is a coincidence.!!! ???

akuma forever said...

If there was no " HELL " no " Heaven " no " GOD ", what would be our purpose? Life would be a complete waste! We would just be a coincidence. Take a look at the beuty of the universe, All of this simply CANNOT be coincidence. all of this would be a " Result " of some crazy theory, such as the " Big Bang Theory ". Take a look at the perfectness of the earth. If the earth was to tilt 1 degree to the left or to the right, we all would get flung out into space so fast that our bones would be ripped out of our bodies. Tell me that is a coincident, No way in HELL it is. So there has to be a God - of some sort, who created all of this, and is holy. So there has to be a HELL for people who do not worship him. Saying this there should also be a heaven, a place of paradise, no pain, sickness suffering, no darkness. Where the streets are paved with gold and you are happy forever.

Why CAN'T it be coincidence? You merely BELIEVE that it's not coincidence, but you have no proof that it's not. Aside from a 2000 year old book, what PROOF do you have that there is a god? The fact that your mind can't comprehend a world without a "purpose."

Our purpose is to reproduce, so the human race can live on for as long as possible. We are no different from sharks or ants or dogs or elephants or any other animal, with the exception of the fact that our minds are more highly EVOLVED.

So you say that if there was no heaven, hell, or god, then what is our purpose? Tell me, what is a koala's purpose in life? Why does religion affect only us humans and not other life on earth? Simply because we're intelligent enough to understand writings on pages of a book?

kester_said...

science.....ah yes science
to answer your question about proof:
there is no proof at this time except the bible.
but to beleive that the Bible is true you have to have FAITH.
science also requires faith to beleive it.

The Bible is NOT proof though. The bible is a book, a story. If you say that the Bible is proof that god exists, then I could say that the teachings of the Inuit Natives of a few hundred years ago are PROOF that Anguta, Aningan, Irdlirvirisissong, and Sedna really exist. If you say that the Bible is PROOF, then I could say that the writings and stories of the greeks are proof that Adonis, Acheron, Aphrodite, Eris, Gaia, Hades and Poseidon really exist.

You see what I'm saying? The bible is NOT special, because there are countless other tomes and teachings that suggest the presence of OTHER spirits and gods that are NOT the One God. So for you to say that the existence of a 2000-year-old storybook is PROOF of god is not proof at all, but is ridiculous. Because if you consider the Bible as proof that god exists, then I can consider all the other books of spiritual teachings of other religions as proof that god does NOT exist. After all, what makes your religion any more dominant or important than any of the others?

vx unicom said....
Well said akuma forever, there is no way all this is a coincidence, JOE don't even compare science to the bible.
Joe are u saying that creation just began by its self without a source. Example: when turning on the lights, it just can light by its self, there is a source of energy that makes the bulb light which is the power source, batteries,generators,extra. same thing with the Universe everything into place the sun, planets,stars, extra. There must be a source of energy that created them which concludes to the existence of GOD, no man has the wisdom or strength to create such beauty.

No one KNOWS the source of the universe. You christians THINK that a god is responsible. The Japanese THINK that Amaterasu is responsible. The Aztecs THINK that Ometeotl is responsible. And the scientists THINK that the Big Bang (or in your words, coincidence) is responsible. But no one KNOWS who or what is responsible. For you to claim that you KNOW when you don't have any evidence or proof is pig-headed and ignorant.

There is a source to everything. As Einstein said, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but transformed and converted. So there had to be a source somewhere down the line. Whether or not that source was the big bang, or god, or Amaterasu, or Ometeotl, or any of the other gods, is yet to be seen. But if you have no PROOF to your claims, then stop fliping making them.

THERE IS A HELL, THERE IS ALSO A GOD and a HEAVEN. Joe ur not as smart as u think u are if yousay there is no God, everything is a coincidence.!!!

THERE IS NO HELL, THERE IS ALSO NO GOD AND NO HEAVEN.

See? I can make claims too. But without proof, they don't mean jack-shiat. Same as your "there is a hell, god and heaven" claim above. You're telling me what you BELIEVE, but not what really exists. You're telling me what you THINK exists, but with no proof to back your claims.

I may not be as smart as I think I am, but I am a lot smarter than you, and am a lot smarter than you give me credit for.

Especially in subjects such as this, where I actually have knowledge of all sides of the playing field. You don't know...I USED to be roman-catholic, I USED to believe in god. And it was my ability to think for myself instead of jumping on the bandwagon that I realized the bible, that the aspect of god, is flat-out ridiculous, and moreover, insulting to me.

So maybe when you decide to bring some solid evidence to the table, i'll start taking you, and akuma, and kester, and anyone else who argues for the existence of god seriously. But if all you have is blind, unsupported faith and belief, then refrain from attempting to make an argument, because 1) not everyone shares your beliefs and 2) your beliefs are not proof.

So yes, I WILL compare science to religion....especially since science has already proven a few parts of the Bible to be WRONG.



Edited By Shauku on Mar. 19 2004 at 13:16

[vx_unicom]

I know that GOD exists and the Devil exists as well........u know what? the Devil is probably laughing at u saying that young one so blinded by my darkness!!!! Without God there wouldn't be light, we wouldn't have a soul,extra. Faith is by hearing what a person says then believing that its true, u don't need prove. I've seen miracles, people being healed from cancer. In 1954 a boy was healed of cancer while back then scientist couldn't cure cancer even now they still can't figure it out. God will not prove his existance to a person who has no faith, i have faith and God proved to me his existance and presence. Joe u have no idea what is going on in the world cause if youknew u wouldn't say such things. OPEN ur HEARTS to faith all you unwise mortals.

[Roll]

You don't need god to have a soul, you know. Souls literally have no affiliation with any gods at all, no matter what texts you read. Your soul is your soul, and I'd advise you not to place it in different affiliations ever again.

OPEN ur HEARTS to faith all you unwise mortals.
You're one to talk. Faith is not the same as believing. It's another word for a shadowy hope, or a livid fantasy that may stand a chance of becoming a reality with the continuous flow of time. If not believing in a dream that comes from a very old book is unwise, then this generation is just plain stupid. --You're also a mortal too, if you didn't notice, so we'd appreciate it if you didn't call other people mortals as if it were a weakness or a bad thing.

The event of 1954, btw, was not a miracle. Miracles happen only when something is needed desperately, and it has a small chance of actually reaching the event needing of a miracle. If the boy actually had cancer and he healed, he may have had something (anything at all) that could have defeated the virus by itself without the use of medicines and toxins. I'd like to see you back up the miracle statement with some proof, if you ever could. Miracles can and have been proven, so don't tell me that it cannot be; unless, of course, you wish to be laughed at outside and inside the forum for false intelligence.

[Bob~Marley4004]

sounds like all ofus,just need to read the book of REVALATION! :biggrin:

[Roll]

None ofus have to read anything. Books are written to be read in the future either for entertainment, puzzlement, or for reference and (scarcely)warnings. This rule has never ever changed, no matter how much time passed. It could be any one of those things.

[alamgir]

Since i'm a Muslim its against my religion to beleive this , not that i even thought about beleiving in it annyway. I beleive in heaven and hell but hell on earth? Its a load of BS. I mean like hell is meant to be ur worst nightmare with things that are unimaginabley horrifying in it. The earths core is just a hot place, and chrisitanity doesnt say hell is on earth does it? Cos i know Islam doesn't.



Edited By alamgir on Mar. 19 2004 at 19:46

[Roll]

I mean like hell is meant to be ur worst nightmare with things that are unimaginabley horrifying in it. The earths core is just a hot place, and chrisitanity doesnt say hell is on earth does it?

You know, it would be a little funny if "Hell" was just a sweatshop behind some factory building. *wonders*

[alamgir]

If that was the case, imagine how heaven would be like...

[kingofhearts]

I avoid this types of mostly because im a christian and it is impossible to convince someone if they dont want to listen or just refuse to see.. all the christians in here i would advice u to the read the bible in these subjects.. dont believe in the bible well too bad.. check this out .. 1 Timothy 6: 20,21 20 "O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge-- 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen."

lol i bet im going to get dished for this..oh well
ps. if i knew how to make "knowledge" bold i would..=/
pss. if someone asks about me not speaking what i think and putting a verse of the bible as my answer..God knows better then me..

[Roll]

No one should knock you at all for not speaking what you think. It's actually wise, at this point, to not say it anymore; which goes for everyone including me. But I'm not wise. ^.^
However, 21 tells that not all prophets are telling the truth, which makes it even more difficult for me to believe that anyone could be telling the truth.
However, I believe that everyone has their own truth, no matter what it is. The universe is yours and always has been yours to control. It's just that you can't take control of other peoples universe's. If you try to, you will always fail; and then the person will avoid trying to be around you. If you dream something it real, then perhaps it is -- for you. But unless you dream that something is not real, then there is a possibility that it could be true -- for you. Dream hold the keys to a persons heart, mind, and soul.

vx unicom said...
I know that GOD exists and the Devil exists as well........u know what? the Devil is probably laughing at u saying that young one so blinded by my darkness!!!! Without God there wouldn't be light, we wouldn't have a soul,extra.

No, without the high level of fission and chemical reactions in the sun, we wouldn't have light. And can you PROVE that souls exist? I don't believe we have souls at all...You have NO PROOF that god and the devil exists. You have BELIEFS, but NOT PROOF.

Faith is by hearing what a person says then believing that its true, u don't need prove. I've seen miracles, people being healed from cancer. In 1954 a boy was healed of cancer while back then scientist couldn't cure cancer even now they still can't figure it out. God will not prove his existance to a person who has no faith, i have faith and God proved to me his existance and presence.

Faith is not proof though. An unexplained miracle is not proof. Just because there's an unexplained medical miracle does not prove that god exists. I could easily say "well the boy was cured of cancer not because of your christian god, but because of Brighid, the Celtic goddess of healing. I have faith that the Celtic gods exist, and your one god does not." And you know what? You can't say shiat, because you can't prove nor disprove my claims.

Besides, a boy being cured of cancer without knowledge of how is not a miracle. A miracle would be a man who was born deaf and blind gaining the ability to see and hear after 90 years. A miracle would be a woman without the ability to walk being able to stand up from her wheelchair and walk again. Being cured of an illness and no one knows why...that's not a miracle.

I dislocated my kneecap last month, and am recovering faster than my physical therapist has ever seen anyone recover from a dislocated kneecap. Does that mean that it's a miracle of god, that my ligaments are pulling themselves together faster than normal?

Joe u have no idea what is going on in the world cause if youknew u wouldn't say such things. OPEN ur HEARTS to faith all you unwise mortals.

On the contrary. You have no idea of what's going on, because you're blinded by your "faith." You said that faith is hearing what a person says and then believing that it's true without needing proof. Basically, that translates into this:

"Faith is believing in something because you're told to, and don't have the ability to think for yourself."

What makes your religion and your god so much more special than the beliefs and gods of all the other religions of the world? For you to say that your god exists and everyone else is wrong is the most pompous, a-hole-ish thing that you could possibly say.

I mean, look at what alamgir said. He's muslim, and you're basically saying that he's wrong and you're right. That his beliefs are inaccurate and your beliefs are superior to his. You have no place to say that, none whatsoever.


I have a statement I'd like to make that I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO.

In the Bible, it is stated that the earth is the center of all things, and that the sun revolves around the earth, and that all the stars in the sky are merely lights in the "heavens." The bible claims that god created the earth first, then created the sun as "a light in the sky."

Well guess what. Science has proven that the earth did not come before the sun. Science has proven that the sun is billions of years older than the earth. For that matter, science has also proven that the earth revolves around the sun....contrary to the bible's claims. Science has also proven that the stars in the sky are not merely "many lights in the heavens," but are other suns in other solar systems.

So now that science has basically proven the biblical theory of creation to be false, as the theory of creation claims that god made the earth the center of the universe, what do you have to say for yourself?

[Roll]

Joe, I'm curious now. What do you think of my beliefs? I'd like to know, if you would say. ^-^

Joe, I'm curious now. What do you think of my beliefs? I'd like to know, if you would say. ^-^
It makes sense....to an extent. Let's pretend that just for this example, I believe in the Shinto religion. I really don't, but let's just say that I do, just for the example.

So what you are saying is that in vx unicom's universe, his god, heaven and hell exist, and when he dies, he will go to either his heaven or his hell, depending on his god's beliefs. At the same time, in my universe, there is no heaven, hell or god, and when I die, my spirit becomes reincarnated into a different life form.

That makes sense, but there is a problem with it. You see, according to vx unicom's universe, anyone who doesn't believe in god will go to hell. Now naturally, that would mean that in his universe, I will go to his hell after I die. However, in MY universe, my body will decay, and my chi will be reincarnated in the form of a different animal or person. By the same respect, in my universe, when vx unicom dies, his body will decay and chi reincarnated, but in his universe he will go to heaven.

The problem is that my energy cannot be in both his hell and in the body of another animal or human. Therefore, a contradiction.

That would be the error in your belief. The fact that there has to be one or the other, and not everything at once. Granted, it's nice that your beliefs would try to find a place for everyone and their own beliefs, but when all is said and done, I don't think it would work out that way. For all I know, I could be wrong and there could be a god, and I could go to hell. Or, for all vx unicom knows, there is no heaven or hell or god, and when he dies, he dies, and that's the end of it. Or, for all either ofus know, we could both be wrong, and end up going down to the underworld to spend all eternity with Ereshkigal and Nergal, the gods of the Mesopotamian underworld. Or we could be reincarnated into the bodies of a butterfly or koala bear.

Whichever the case, all I know is that science offers PROOF, and some of this proof has proven that parts of the bible are wrong. The fact that people will disregard this and say that science is wrong, even though science is right, is ridiculous.

[Roll]

Yes.. but from my point of view, everyone has their own universe, their own dimension, their own point of view. Since no one has the same thoughts, views, or opinions, they must have different dimensions and a different universe to hold it all in. Which makes all of that possible... or so I think. Either way, I like to hold fast to that rather than believe everything can and must be proven or that everyone must just believe what they are told.

[Elena]

ENOUGH!!! WE HAVE MADE A TOPIC LIKE THIS MANY TIMES, AND MANY TIMES IT HAS BEEN LOCKED. ANYTIME YOU MAKE A TOPIC LIKE THIS THERE IS BOUND TO BE RUKUS AND DISBELIEVERS. SINCE THERE ARE MANY OTHER RELIGIONS AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING. THERE IS NO POINT IN CONTINUING IN THIS TOPIC. ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE IS BOUND TO GET MAD SOONER OR LATER. WHY DON'T WE JUST STOP IT BEFORE IT HAPPENS AND KEEP THE PEACE. PEACE IS GOOD AND THIS FORUM AND RELIGON DOES NOT MIX.

DON'T TELL TO COME BACK IN HERE IF I DON'T WANT TO READ IT BECAUSE I WILL KEEP COMING BACK UNTIL IT IS CLOSED.

I'M SUPRISED THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU ROLL HAVE NOT TOLD SOMEONE TO CLOSE THIS TOPIC.

LET'S JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE.

AND REMEMBER HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS IT SELF...

Yes.. but from my point of view, everyone has their own universe, their own dimension, their own point of view. Since no one has the same thoughts, views, or opinions, they must have different dimensions and a different universe to hold it all in. Which makes all of that possible... or so I think. Either way, I like to hold fast to that rather than believe everything can and must be proven or that everyone must just believe what they are told.
So you're saying that everyone's "soul," "god," or whatnot exists in everyone else's universe/dimension? So after I die, I'll be not only in vx unicom's idea of hell, but in my own idea of the afterlife, in the Shinto idea of reincarnation, the Greek underworld, Slavic underworld, Oceanic underworld....all of them at the same time? Just that it's in different dimensions? Hmmm....that sounds confusing. It does make sense, but it's just confusing, cuz in effect you're saying that my soul exists in the personal universes/dimensions of 6 billion people or so.

Elena said...

DON'T TELL TO COME BACK IN HERE IF I DON'T WANT TO READ IT BECAUSE I WILL KEEP COMING BACK UNTIL IT IS CLOSED.

Why though? If it bothers you, then simply don't read it. If you don't read it, then it can't bother you, and then you can't be upset with everyone disagreeing.

AND REMEMBER HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS IT SELF...

You just answered your own question about why we keep making the same topic when it's been done before.

I sincerely doubt that the topic is going to be closed, because it's a viable topic. There is actual debate material here, and to close it just because you don't like seeing people argue would be unfair. That would be like the people who wanted to close the DBZvsSF topic long ago, just cuz they didn't like reading about us arguing.

[Evil-Blanka]

yes, that's why i, beleive in God, pray every night, morning, try to go to church every sunday, and obey the Lord, and his Ten Commandments. so when Jesus Christ comes i know that i won't be trapped in the gates of hell..
yeah i pray every night i admit i dont pray every morning but i pray every night and im going to start praying every morning and night

[(=SOUL=)]

I think dat when u die ur dead and it just like not being there any more like b4 u were born u know nothing u dont see nothing hear nothing there no hell or heaven just nothing u cant even think u dont know wats going on and then 1 day u wake up wit a hang over :)

The last bit was a joke =\

[Elena]

Joe said:
Why though? If it bothers you, then simply don't read it. If you don't read it, then it can't bother you, and then you can't be upset with everyone disagreeing.

It doesn't bother me. I just would rather stop a conflict before it happens. There is no way to prove Hell is real or not real. Unless you died and remember everything AND get everyone else to believe you.

Joe said:
That would be like the people who wanted to close the DBZvsSF topic long ago, just cuz they didn't like reading about us arguing.

This would be nothing like the DBZvsSF. This topic is about somebody's belief in matters which matter to them most. This religion thing might be what one person life revolves around. This topic can actually damage someone's believe in something. This topic is real life unlike the DBZvsSF topic.

Elena said:
AND REMEMBER HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS IT SELF...

I said what I said about history repeating itself because this topic will always cause anger to others and become closed of flaming. No matter what you try to do. Hey, the person could accidently click on the topic and read and be offended. So to defend his/her belief he/she might post something inappriate or loose their temper.
It is silly that people keep making topic's like this when we all know that sooner or later people WILL flood. No matter how mature you are. The other posters may not be.

Oh, I've been in like 2 religous topics...they both ended by being locked because of immaturity. There was the one started by Asshole. There was that other one by...I can't remember who it was started by, but it ended with somebody getting angry and getting closed by the topic starter.

And again I say: REMEMBER HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS IT SELF...
So why don't we use the knowledge we have and stop it before it happens....

[MasterX05]

brought back as a Panda lol thats a funny thought. Another thing thats funny is that people say that the ever word in the Bible is true. Now this book is pretty old and there are tons of diffrent versions of it.

Here is a example as I said before. You have a classroom of 30 students u whisper in the first students ear like a phrase or sentence. Then make them whisper it in the ear of the other student. Pass it all the way down till it finally reach the 30th student. Have them stand up and say it out loud, its like a 99.9% it would not be the excat word to word what u said to start it out. People hear diffrent and talk diffrent. If you have 5 people to witness a murder put them in a room by them selves and ask them to explain what happen at the scene. Thier story would not be the EXACT same story. get the point?



Edited By MasterX05 on Mar. 19 2004 at 20:12

[Roll]

So you're saying that everyone's "soul," "god," or whatnot exists in everyone else's universe/dimension? So after I die, I'll be not only in vx unicom's idea of hell, but in my own idea of the afterlife, in the Shinto idea of reincarnation, the Greek underworld, Slavic underworld, Oceanic underworld....all of them at the same time? Just that it's in different dimensions? Hmmm....that sounds confusing. It does make sense, but it's just confusing, cuz in effect you're saying that my soul exists in the personal universes/dimensions of 6 billion people or so.
Well, yes. But only if those 6 billion people think you exist. In order to exist to other people, you have to be thought of, or at least seen and remembered (which takes thought). So, if no one thinks about you, then they don't think you exist, and therefore, you're not in their universe anymore. However, you're still existant in your own universe. Get it? ^-^ I know it's confusing at first... but in this belief, at least there is a safe haven for all people, and not just a person.


And Elena, the reason why I have not said to close this topic, is that we do need to discuss this. If no one will discuss it in the world, just because they are afraid of being yelled at or because they fear a battle or argument, then we'll be at war for all eternity with anyone and everyone. While I absolutely condone fighting and arguing, we have to help people realize that it's not only one person with right answers; and that there is always more than one right answer (somehow, and some way). If we cannot do that, for anyone, then this world is surely doomed and it's final years will be at hand.



Edited By Roll on Mar. 18 2004 at 21:35

Hmmm.....that actually does make sense.

So John Smith in Texas actually exists, as in, in the whole mix of things, but since I don't know him and he doesn't know me, he's not part of my own universe....i get it.

What about people with differing beliefs that know each other? Say...me and my christian friend. My soul in his universe would go to his hell, but in the Shinto universe, my soul might be reincarnated into a bear. Does that mean that everone has as many "souls/spirits/chi" as people that know they exist?

[Roll]

No matter what happens, you exist in someones mind if they think of you and think you exist. If they believe that you will go to hell, then in their universe, you will. But only in their universe. What happens to you in your universe is only in your own universe. It's.. like being in a house of mirrors, where each mirror is actually a persons view of you, therefore, who you are to them in their universe. You're always you, but the mirrors will change your angle, look, etc.

[Angel-Eyes]

im going to start praying every morning and night
you think thats gonna keep you out of hell?


"For it is not by works of rightousness which we have done, but according to his mercey He has saved us."



good works isnt gonna save you



Edited By kester- on Mar. 20 2004 at 12:36

[vx_unicom]

Hmmm.....that actually does make sense.

So John Smith in Texas actually exists, as in, in the whole mix of things, but since I don't know him and he doesn't know me, he's not part of my own universe....i get it.

What about people with differing beliefs that know each other? Say...me and my christian friend. My soul in his universe would go to his hell, but in the Shinto universe, my soul might be reincarnated into a bear. Does that mean that everone has as many "souls/spirits/chi" as people that know they exist?
Joe where do u get this Shinto universe??! There is no such thing, lol and YES everyone has a soul, a soul is like the air u breath exmaple: Ifur alive u breath, once ur dead u stop breathing. A soul is ur the source ofur very existance without it ur dead.......just like the air u breath once u stop ur dead. By the way Joe some people have experienced life after death and believe me they as well said there is a HELL, saying he was given a chance to dedicate his life to God, he was sorrounded by darkness. There is no such thing as many universes, The universe is one, Joe ur so blinded.....trust me!! If there was no HELL then there wouldn't be darkness and if HEAVEN didn't exist there would'nt be light.......there thats the most simple example i could think of. The day light and the night is also a sign that there is HEAVEN and HELL. ???



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 20 2004 at 07:29

vx unicom says...

Joe where do u get this Shinto universe??! There is no such thing, lol

Dude, you're a frigging idiot. Shinto was a semiancient Japanese belief that when you die, your chi is reincarnated into many different forms, depending on the good and bad deeds you did in your previous lives. If you lead good lives, then you will eventually be reincarnated into the diety level of the spirits.

and YES everyone has a soul, a soul is like the air u breath exmaple: Ifur alive u breath, once ur dead u stop breathing. A soul is ur the source ofur very existance without it ur dead.......just like the air u breath once u stop ur dead.

You have no proof of the existence of a soul. A soul is not like the air you breathe....you breathe when you're alive because your body needs oxygen, and therefore to get oxygen, your lungs expand and air is drawn in through your esophagus and nasal cavities. You're dead when you stop breathing becasue since your dead, your various organs stop working, you stop taking in oxygen, and you therefore cannot live. It's not because of a "soul." You BELIEVE in the existence of a soul, but it's not fact, because it cannot be proven. It's merely your blind faith talking.

By the way Joe some people have experienced life after death and believe me they as well said there is a HELL, saying he was given a chance to dedicate his life to God, he was sorrounded by darkness.

Some people also claim to have experienced reincarnation....some people also claim to have experienced religious Buddhist nirvana....some people also claim to have experienced Allah. What makes the people who claim to have experienced hell any different from anyone else?

There is no such thing as many universes, The universe is one, Joe ur so blinded.....trust me!!

I am not blinded. YOU are the one that is blinded, blinded by your own faith. You're so caught up in this religious nonsense that you lack the ability to think for yourself.

You cannot prove that there is only one universe, you cannot prove that Roll's beliefs are not accurate. You can only speculate, going by what your 2000 year old book claims.

Why should i trust some 13-year-old in matters of which I have more knowledge of than you, especially when I address the debate presented to me whereas you ignore it?

If there was no HELL then there wouldn't be darkness and if HEAVEN didn't exist there would'nt be light.......there thats the most simple example i could think of.

Umm....no....

First off, even according to your bible, God created darkness and god created light, and separated the two.

Secondly, you're wrong. Darkness and light are not regulated by hell and heaven. You're a retard. Darkness is regulated by the earth's spin around the sun, as is light. You say that darkness exists only because of hell. Darkness exists because our section of the planet is not facing the sun, you dolt. Not because of some religious voodoo of yours.

The day light and the night is also a sign that there is HEAVEN and HELL. ???

Um no it's not. The day and the night are merely signs that the earth is still spinning around in the vastness of the universe, orbiting the gigantic ball of gas that is our sun.

[vx_unicom]

Joe i'm not saying everything involving science is bad....JOE u know nothing about knowledge. YOUR so ignorant and young to understand what i'm talking about. By saying there is no HELL ur simply saying that there is no good or evil. Thats why God is everything that is good and the Devil is everything bad. if you say God and the Devil don't exist then ur saying that our heart is a like a big empty space without the desire to do good and evil. Why do people hate?? because of the devil!!! and why do u think we have the ability to love and care??? Simply because God exist. There is no such thing as being reincarnated. If God didn't exist, we wouldn't Love, care, have compassion,extra. By tossing insults ur just showing a sign of ignorance towards the fact that what i'm saying actually makes sense. All u want is prove........LOL, the very prove u seek is around u!!!. :)



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 20 2004 at 12:49

JOE u know nothing about knowledge. YOUR so ignorant and young to understand what i'm talking about.

Ok, I've had enough of this shiat. YOU KNOW NOTHING. You THINK you know, but you don't. You have no proof to back your claims, and whenever I try to raise a point, you just say I have no knowledge of what I'm talking about.

This is what I hate about you frigging christian religious zealots. Whenevever you find someone that doesn't follow your religion, they're obviously "ignorant," and don't know what they're talking about.

I have a question for you, vx unicom. What makes your religion so much more special than all the other religions?

if you say God and the Devil don't exist then ur saying that our heart is a like a big empty space without the desire to do good and evil

No, our hearts are organs of muscle fibers that are used to pump blood throughout our bodies.

Who are you to decide what is "good" and what is "evil?" Morals are all relative to each person, there is no universal definition of "good" and "evil."

Why do people hate?? because of the devil!!!

No....people hate because it's an emotion triggered by the neurons in your brain. If a man kills your brother, you hate them. Not because of the devil, but because it's a human emotion, you twit.

and why do u think we have the ability to love and care??? Simply because God exist.

No, because they're biochemical reactions in the brain designed to make sure our genes get passed on. Not becuase god exists.

There is no such thing as being reincarnated.

And the people that believe in reincarnation can say there's no such thing as heaven or hell or god.

This is what i'm talking about. You're being such a pompous @ss that you're saying "anyone who doesn't believe in christianity is wrong."

Like I said before....what makes your christian religion more special than any other religion?

By tossing insults ur just showing a sign of ignorance towards the fact that what i'm saying actually makes sense.

When did I toss an insult? You were the one who said I was ignorant becuase I don't believe in your religion.

Once again, I ask you....what makes your religion so special? Why do you think that your religion is more accurate than Shinto, or Buddhism, or Conflipianism, or Judaism, or Islam, or Muslim, or Greek, or Roman, or Oceanic, or Celtic, or Norse, or Mesopotamian, or Egyptian religions?

Why can't you christians ever get through your skull that there are other beliefs out there that are different than yours?

You claim that faith is proof. I claim that faith is blinding you. You claim there is a devil, and say that hate proves that the devil is real, and that love and caring prove that god exists. I state that hate, love and caring are all biochemical reactions in the brain. I bring TRUTH, you bring FAITH.

[Elena]

... :withstupid:

And you said anger would not arise...hmm...after anger comes name calling. Which leads to more name calling. Which leads to locking and maybe someone getting banned.

And I would like to say that i'm a 'friggin christian' which you hate so much. I think you should say most or some instead of all because I surely was not ignorant to any of your posts. I would also like to add that you are becoming ignorant to a teenager....and you are a 20 year-old.



Edited By Elena on Mar. 20 2004 at 13:32

[Roll]

the very prove u seek is around u!!!.
First of all, the word you're seeking to use is "proof". ^-^
Second of all, the very proof that is all around us also proves everything I believe in, everything Joe believes in, everything the buddhists believe in, and everything everyone believes in. The earth cannot become your proof because you want it to be. The earth is not a possession, or an object you can keep to yourself. Neither, in fact, is anything breathing and living on this earth; or anything at all for that matter. Everything is shared by everything, even if it's by smell, sight, or some other sense I will not list. Do not try to use the earth as your proof again.

Thats why God is everything that is good and the Devil is everything bad.
However true this may be to you, it may be very different to someone else. As Joe said before, morals are relative to each person. A Devil to some other person may actually be a sweetheart, rather than an evil "I'm gonna kill you" type of being with a demented face. At the same time, God could be feared as the person who IS scary and posssibly evilish. It's all from a persons perspective of the world around them. (Their universe. ^.^)

....our heart is a like a big empty space without the desire to do good and evil.

The funny thing is, that's exactly what it is. When a heart wrenches, it's something that has to do with bodily functions. I'm sure Joe understands. Also, technically, the heart is a big empty space. It's just that it pumps blood throughout the body. Emotions do not happen only in specific parts of the body. You may feel scared, and you'll get an empty feeling in your throat. You'll feel happy, your hand will tingle. It's different for everything. (Thus, it's part of their universe.)

And is it just me, or is everything VX is saying just going in an oval-like motion?

Edit:
Elena, you need to understand. No matter what you will do, someone will get offended. If we stopped talking about it because of that, what would happen to the world? And it's wrong for people to try to justify that their beliefs are more sound than any others with proof that has no real meaning. Therefore, I think it's a good idea to continue this topic; if not for ourselves, then for the defence of the other beliefs. I commend you for not doing what Joe accuses Christians of doing. You are indeed special, and thoughtful.



Edited By Roll on Mar. 19 2004 at 14:36

[Elena]

Ok, Roll. I will stop with this. I was getting tired of trying to stop it anyways.

Anyways, I was wondering if you could be like a christian/buddist because I think some people do come reincarnated while others go to a type hell worst then the hell than the hell we are living on now.

[Roll]

Anything is possible, as long as you want it to be possible. It's really your choice in the matter. ^-^

[MasterX05]

Well the way I see it ppl do need a religion it gives ppl hope something to believe in. So that when they are in a bad situation they have someone to look up to and pray to get out of it. People use it like a cructh. But for me nah I have no need to say God give me strength just to do something. My teacher was telling us about the strongest man in the world who came to her Trojan for Christ meeting and showing his str ( him only being 140pounds) And he says its god that give him this power. She actually belive it just because the guy weighs 140 that he ripped a phonebook in half, and was holding 4 motorcyles at the end of these ropes why they were trying to get away.

And this movie passion they say the guy playing Jesus got struck by lighting. And ppl believe that it is a sign. Nope not me I dont have to pray to some god just to get me out of a tough situation or help me do something. lol I cant even remember the last time I steped on holy grounds, and if I did I probly freeze up and turn to stone. :biggrin:

And I would like to say that i'm a 'friggin christian' which you hate so much. I think you should say most or some instead of all because I surely was not ignorant to any of your posts. I would also like to add that you are becoming ignorant to a teenager....and you are a 20 year-old.
I was not referring to ALL christians, as I believe you may have interpreted. I was referring to the pig-headed zealots like vx unicom, who try to convert anyone who's not christian, and insist that anyone who does not agree with their beliefs are "too ignorant to see the truth." People like that fail to realize that the people they persecute are not the ones "blind to truth," but they themselves are blinded by their own faith, unable to think or speak for themselves.

I apoligize if I offended you by my generalization, but when some rambling 13 year old like him ignores my arguments to say that i'm "too ignorant and young to see the truth," when he has no evidence to back his claims, I tend to get a little heated. If he were smart enough and open enough to step back and forget about his "you are wrong, and I am right" attitude, I may not have lost my head.

But you must see what I mean. He's sitting there, claiming that his religion is the only true religion and flat-out stating that all other religions are wrong, when he not only has no proof to back his outlandish claims, but definately has no place to state that his beliefs are superior to all others, and that anyone who doesn't agree is obviously "ignorant."

[vx_unicom]

And I would like to say that i'm a 'friggin christian' which you hate so much. I think you should say most or some instead of all because I surely was not ignorant to any of your posts. I would also like to add that you are becoming ignorant to a teenager....and you are a 20 year-old.
I was not referring to ALL christians, as I believe you may have interpreted. I was referring to the pig-headed zealots like vx unicom, who try to convert anyone who's not christian, and insist that anyone who does not agree with their beliefs are "too ignorant to see the truth." People like that fail to realize that the people they persecute are not the ones "blind to truth," but they themselves are blinded by their own faith, unable to think or speak for themselves.

I apoligize if I offended you by my generalization, but when some rambling 13 year old like him ignores my arguments to say that i'm "too ignorant and young to see the truth," when he has no evidence to back his claims, I tend to get a little heated. If he were smart enough and open enough to step back and forget about his "you are wrong, and I am right" attitude, I may not have lost my head.

But you must see what I mean. He's sitting there, claiming that his religion is the only true religion and flat-out stating that all other religions are wrong, when he not only has no proof to back his outlandish claims, but definately has no place to state that his beliefs are superior to all others, and that anyone who doesn't agree is obviously "ignorant."
Joe stop putting words in my mouth, i never said my religion was better than all the others. People who get angry during a debate don't deserve to even say anything, ur immature actions will make u loose a case. For ur own information i'm not 13 years old. calling me names like a headed zealot!!! i see......and ur yet ur saying ur not tossing unsults. Anyways Spirits are real dude........proof? Go to the graveyard at midnight,....LOL, Try debating the issue instead putting words in my mouth. I'm not trying to convert anyone who is not christian, heck i'm very good in science which gives me the edge in this topic. By the way roll i'm not trying to use the earth as prove. Oneday joe u will see the truth!!! God exists or else we wouldn't have the technology which we have and animals dont have that kind of ability.



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 20 2004 at 20:58

[MasterX05]

Your joking right? Go to a graveyard at midnight? I thought it was man who created the technology.

[Elena]

...Um, no graveyard haha...While yes I belief that sprits are real. I don't believe that you have to be at a graveyard to see one or more like feel them.

Joe stop putting words in my mouth, i never said my religion was better than all the others.

I brought up the Shinto and Buddhist belief of reincarnation, and you said "There as no such thing as being reincarnated." So basically, you said "all believers of Shinto and Buddhism are wrong." Don't say I'm putting words in my mouth, because saying that there's no such thing as reincarnation would be the same thing as saying that they're wrong.

People who get angry during a debate don't deserve to even say anything,

I'm getting angry because you continue to insist that you're right when you offer no proof or evidence to support your claims....you just say "no you're wrong, god does exist."

ur immature actions will make u loose a case.

My immature actions? You were the one who said I was young and ignorant simply because I don't believe in christianity.

Anyways Spirits are real dude........proof? Go to the graveyard at midnight,....LOL

Ok, and I see tombstones and grave markers. I've never seen a spirit in a graveyard.

Try debating the issue instead putting words in my mouth.

I HAVE BEEN debating the issue. I've been offering instance after instance of proof, and you merely ignore it and keep saying "your too young and ignorant to see the truth." I presented the truth, and you ignored it. So how about YOU start debating instead of making unbacked claims.

heck i'm very good in science which gives me the edge in this topic.

How does that give you the edge? I've been using science as my source in my debate thus far, and you've never even regarded it. Instead, you've ignored it and continue with your "no you're wrong, god does exist." Instead of bragging and CLAIMING that you have the edge in the topic, how about you actually start debating my points instead of ignoring them.

Oneday joe u will see the truth!!! God exists or else we wouldn't have the technology which we have and animals dont have that kind of ability.

Lol, we have technology because we developed it over time as we evolved. Even monkeys and chimpanzees are able to use primitive tools, which is what we started out using. The only difference is that we evolved, and they did not. God did not give us technology, our brains created technology.

In fact, technology and science go hand in hand, and so far, science is disproving the existence of god...or rather, is disproving a few key aspects of the bible. So why would your god give us the technology to prove his nonexistence?

[blossom]

people will believe what they want, so far anything anyone has said in this topic can easily turn into a debate. I am a christian and i do believe in heaven and hell, but not because of that web page.

Rica out

[m0u5y]

ah just go with the shinto. and if there is a hell, well id prefer it to this cold ars desert im livin in! ah now i remember paradise, but i was forced to leave it!! nooo it was so beautiful and temperate! i miss the mediterranean! anywho, good advice is, no matter what you believe, be nice, try your best, and enjoy life. ah yeah, cuz its short and u dont know if you get a second chance. i think i was a dancing monkey in my past life tho lol. i mean eh, my family is catholic and i lived in THE country of catholicism where nothing else went. lets just say that somehow i felt out of place in church lol. bwahaha.



Edited By m0u5y on Mar. 21 2004 at 03:27

[vx_unicom]

Joe i'm not ignoring your points, I have the edge in this debate because i knowboth science and the bible. Joe how come animals don't evolve from animals anymore?? JOE most of the people disagree with your statements!!!. U say u bring the truth by saying humans don't have a Soul, No way.......what do u think makes us any different from animals? Because humans have a soul and animals don't. Well by saying there is no such thing as reincarnation i didn't mean that my religion was better than all the others! Joe ur not bringing the truth by saying there is no such thing as a soul which is a bunch of lies. Do you have proof that Spirits don't exist. Even some scientist believe in God, that spirits do exist, even as u speak u have a soul without even knowing it. Joe u believe that everything that happens is a coincidence which i highly doubt that. I did give u proof of a source.....that there is a source of energy that created the universe and that it concludes to the existence of God. OK...i know that humans were created by God and i know what since says which i think doesn't really make sense. How can we don't evolve anymore?!?? Can u briefly explain to us why we can't evolve from animals as we used to??? ;)

[Elena]

Joe i'm not ignoring your points, I have the edge in this debate because i knowboth science and the bible. Joe how come animals don't evolve from animals anymore?? JOE most of the people disagree with your statements!!!. U say u bring the truth by saying humans don't have a Soul, No way.......what do u think makes us any different from animals? Because humans have a soul and animals don't. Well by saying there is no such thing as reincarnation i didn't mean that my religion was better than all the others! Joe ur not bringing the truth by saying there is no such thing as a soul which is a bunch of lies. Do you have proof that Spirits don't exist. Even some scientist believe in God, that spirits do exist, even as u speak u have a soul without even knowing it. Joe u believe that everything that happens is a coincidence which i highly doubt that. I did give u proof of a source.....that there is a source of energy that created the universe and that it concludes to the existence of God. OK...i know that humans were created by God and i know what since says which i think doesn't really make sense. How can we don't evolve anymore?!?? Can u briefly explain to us why we can't evolve from animals as we used to??? ;)
1st thing how do you know animals don't have souls....

What are you saying...Are you asking y don't animals evolve anymore? If so, then they still are. Look around you. Scientist all over are saying they are finding new species. Like the liger(lion and tiger). Hmm, how about that white whale. Who's name doesn't come to mind.

Hmm, what makes us different from animals? Well, have you looked around. Cuz know that I surely don't walk on all fours like a dog. And humans have more brain capacity. Dogs unlike Humans also can not hear high pitch sounds. Humans often hurt their own kind on purpose. Humans have hands. Dogs have paws...

Well, we don't evolve anymore because there is no need to. Humans can make more humans by having sex. So there really is no reason for humans to evolve from apes/gorillas anymore.

Oh and just so you know. I believe in God, evolution, souls, and spirts.

[(ShinKu_Ryu)]

[quote:post_uid4="Elena"]1st thing how do you know animals don't have souls....

What are you saying...Are you asking y don't animals evolve anymore? If so, then they still are. Look around you. Scientist all over are saying they are finding new species. Like the liger(lion and tiger). Hmm, how about that white whale. Who's name doesn't come to mind.

Hmm, what makes us different from animals? Well, have you looked around. Cuz know that I surely don't walk on all fours like a dog. And humans have more brain capacity. Dogs unlike Humans also can not hear high pitch sounds. Humans often hurt their own kind on purpose. Humans have hands. Dogs have paws...

Well, we don't evolve anymore because there is no need to. Humans can make more humans by having sex. So there really is no reason for humans to evolve from apes/gorillas anymore.[/quote:post_uid4]
I dont believe that we were apes..?!? that does not make sense......Natuku joe, all this u have been saying proves that ur way in to scince.....cause every thing u have been saying u have been relating to scince...dont know why...

And joe there is a heaven and hell...if youdont believe it then ur blinded by ur own believes......Scientist's have been try to understand everything that they are lying to them selves and to others..etc, joe............with out even realizing it.

just if youdont know natuku joe.....we are leving in hell and try looking at things with different views........ :alien: scientist's said that jesus did not create earth....thats wat you put in ur head right away. :laughlong:

ok...since you want prove , i try to make you understand.....do you know the story of Adam and Eve..?!?You dont cause u dont read the bible........those two were the first humans god created in his image...?!?then where could scientist's have got that we evolved from apes... ???

Joe i'm not ignoring your points, I have the edge in this debate because i knowboth science and the bible

I used to be roman catholic, and I've read the bible cover-to-cover. That's how I came to realize that I thought it was all crap.

I've also gotten straight As in any science-related course I've ever taken (sans a B+ in my college physics course).

Therefore, I also have knowledge of the bible and science. The only difference between you and I are that I actually cite sources and instances, wheras you make unbacked claims.

Joe how come animals don't evolve from animals anymore??

They do! Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

Animal evolution takes place over many years, not mere days. Scientists have performed experiments that have proven that evolution happens. Separating the same flock of birds and same group of field mice over two different islands with differing conditions, over 50 years, scientists have observed that they have been able to adapt to their environment and actually evolve minor characteristic differences....increases to overall size, beak size and color, diet, etc.

Scientists have also proven that evolution exists by the fact that 30 million years ago, sloths were over 15 feet tall and armadillos were the size of Volkswagons. Look at them today....they're very small. Why? They evolved. They could no longer survive in the changing environment due to their enormous sizes, so they evolved into smaller, more survivable versions of themselves.

So you're wrong with that statement. Evolution still occurs, just not as fast as you think it does. For someone who claims to be knowledgable about science, I thought you'd know that

U say u bring the truth by saying humans don't have a Soul, No way.......what do u think makes us any different from animals? Because humans have a soul and animals don't.

You have no proof. You can run around and say "i don't need proof, proof is all around us," but that still doesn't mean jack. Unless you can provide PROOF, stop making outlandish claims.

OK...i know that humans were created by God and i know what since says which i think doesn't really make sense.

Fine, you "know" that humans were created by god, and I "know" that they weren't.

How can we don't evolve anymore?!?? Can u briefly explain to us why we can't evolve from animals as we used to???

We still can evolve. Let me give you a brief science lesson:

[quote]ev

[m0u5y]

aw animals have feelings? i mean take my brother for instance... uh hello, what are humans then? does a bigger brain mean a soul? i say that something souless couldn't live. cant you see the soul of your dog when you look into its loving eyes??? they do need affection and are sad when their masters are gone. if an animal can feel sad, happy, angry and all those, then it should have a soul, unless you want to debate that there is no such thing? sometimes i think (a little bit too much) that all we are is a series of complex connections, electric and chemical reactions evolved from the simplest life-form... or maybe a collection of smaller organisms called cells that work together to sustain each other... oops going off topic here lol.

aw animals have feelings? i mean take my brother for instance... uh hello, what are humans then? does a bigger brain mean a soul? i say that something souless couldn't live. cant you see the soul of your dog when you look into its loving eyes??? they do need affection and are sad when their masters are gone. if an animal can feel sad, happy, angry and all those, then it should have a soul, unless you want to debate that there is no such thing? sometimes i think (a little bit too much) that all we are is a series of complex connections, electric and chemical reactions evolved from the simplest life-form... or maybe a collection of smaller organisms called cells that work together to sustain each other... oops going off topic here lol.
Actually that was perfectly on-topic.

[m0u5y]

oh yay ^_^

[Roll]

do you know the story of Adam and Eve..?!?You dont cause u dont read the bible........those two were the first humans god created in his image...?!?then where could scientist's have got that we evolved from apes... ???
Of course, if that were true... then technically, no matter who we marry, date, or fall in love with, we could consider it as incest.

we are leving in hell and try looking at things with different views........
I'm gonna guess that you're trying to say "living", even though the letter "e" is usually far away from the letter "i" on keyboards.
First of all, everyone looks at everything with a different view. No view will ever be the same; just similar, perhaps. To say different is to be controlling and pompous. If you were, however, telling Joe to look at things with different views, then you should look and read closer. He's been looking at this entire topic and everything else with a very open mind. He tries to disprove your beliefs, because they are somewhat ridiculus in ways.

what do u think makes us any different from animals? Because humans have a soul and animals don't.

Humans are animals too, genius.

Do you have proof that Spirits don't exist.

A better question: do you have proof that they do exist?

Even some scientist believe in God, that spirits do exist, even as u speak u have a soul without even knowing it.

True or not, Scientists believing in god will try to find proof that god exists. When they've succeeded, you can call the press for all ofus.
You also do not need to have a soul in order to speak. In fact, you don't need a soul to live. Souls are just manifestations of memories, dreams, and people that have died. If you want to go with souls, you'd have to be reincarnated to continue to have a soul. Unless, of course, your soul was just born into this world. But that's only if you have a soul.

I did give u proof of a source.....that there is a source of energy that created the universe and that it concludes to the existence of God.

Wow. Source of energy that created the universe. Big proof. What if it was just a whole lot of tiny little sources of energy coming together and colliding to create this universe? You can't say that proves the existence of a God; just like you can't say that a few words in a book proves his existance (ditto for countless believers, priests, and preachers).

Natuku joe, all this u have been saying proves that ur way in to scince.....cause every thing u have been saying u have been relating to scince...dont know why...

Is there something wrong with him being into science? Maybe I should say you're way into christianity; because everything you've been saying stems from your religion and the beliefs you hold that stem from it. And I don't know why either. Doesn't meant that it makes it ok for me to use this as a form of retaliation. (I dun care if I spelled that word wrong right now, btw. It's an icky word.)

Scientist's have been try to understand everything that they are lying to them selves and to others

While at the same time, you're doing that too. What you say may not be a lie to you, but to others, it can be a lie. Perspectives, motives, and morals change depending on the person; and generalizing all people in anyway can be dangerous upon your already tattered judgement. Keep that in mind.

[ledmonkey]

<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>Let this topic Die before we end up killing somebody.....</span>

[Elena]

<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>Let this topic Die before we end up killing somebody.....</span>
I already tried to stop it. Just let it runs its course like all the others like it.

[Roll]

Anyway, it seems that it will be necessary.

[vx_unicom]

Joe ur wrong, those damn scientist are wong too.......how come none of those scientist ever proven on TV how animals evolve so we can see it. It doen't make sense that the world just started to form by itself man!!. There must have been something that made that impact to happen. I read in the bible on how the earth was created and it makes more sense than those scientist who try explain to explain how the earth was made. Everything that exist has a maker who created them all. Things just don't start to create themselves. Unlike humans even though u say they evolved from animals which i disagree, there must have been something that caused them to evolve from animals to humans. If God and the Devil didn't exist then we wouldn't know what sin is and what the truth is which again conludes to the existance of God and the devil. God is Truth and the devil is sin, there is no need for prove that God exists, Statistically speaking so far people agree that God exist and there is a HEAVEN and a HELL which i agree as well. ???

[Roll]

Joe ur wrong, those damn scientist are wong too.......how come none of those scientist ever proven on TV how animals evolve so we can see it.
Actually, you can't show that something is evolving AT A CURRENT MOMENT OF TIME. If you were truly knowledgable with science, you would know that. But then you must have lied, did you not?

It doen't make sense that the world just started to form by itself man!!.
As you once implied, if everything must have a purpose, then this does make sense. Little tiny bits and pieces forming themselves together in order to become what we know as life and the earth today. It has more sense than just one entity creating it all.

There must have been something that made that impact to happen. I read in the bible on how the earth was created and it makes more sense than those scientist who try explain to explain how the earth was made.
Of course it makes more sense to you: You're totally brainwashed, and don't take the time to notice what other people are saying. You're 100% religious, and that can be a big problem in any debate in life. You're becoming your own worst enemy for this one, that's for sure.

Everything that exist has a maker who created them all. Things just don't start to create themselves.

Yes they do. We have tiny little organsms that come together to create things. They're called molecules.

Unlike humans even though u say they evolved from animals which i disagree, there must have been something that caused them to evolve from animals to humans.

Humans <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>ARE ANIMALS</span>, you dolt. We evolved into what we are today, because we adapted to life and became smarter with time and experience. Everything is like that; but it takes a very long time to get from where we were billions of years ago to where we are today.

If God and the Devil didn't exist then we wouldn't know what sin is and what the truth is which again conludes to the existance of God and the devil. God is Truth and the devil is sin, there is no need for prove that God exists

Sin is just another, smaller word for wrong-doing, faulty action, misbehavior, etc. Truth and Sin are both changeable with the minds, perspectives, thoughts, morals, and laws of people. Plus, there are many forms of each: Mild, strong, complete, total, incidental, accidental, unpreventable, and destructive for Sin, and half-, little-, solid-, faded-, small-, hidden-, false-, questionable-, destructive-, horrific-, sad-, and wrong- for truths. There are many more, but these are the most commonly used.

Statistically speaking so far people agree that God exist and there is a HEAVEN and a HELL which i agree as well. ???

Statistics are for politicians, mathematicians, surveyors and news reporters. To trust them is to trust that only a small percentage of the population over the entire world believes this; and it's only in one area at a time. In fact, most people will refuse to be polled on such things: So you can't count this as proof or help for you. For all you know, more non-believers than believers.

[m0u5y]

if god created the universe, who created god? just like the big bang theory, it doesnt make sense, creation from nothing? IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? the thing is humans dont know anything about anything just like the rest of the animals on this planet. religion and even science are just ways to make the humans feel like they have control and knowledge because the alternative answer (they have no clue of nothing) would cause them to go insane. science and religion are both human creations so they are subject to human bias. everything you know can be disproved. human error is the source of all the problems. and no computers cant figure it out since they are human creations too. infact... you could debate forever and ever about religion vs. science or any other controversial topic because anything that is controversial will always have multiple views and answers, and this is the defenite truth of all.
lol

[Roll]

...and that's where my belief comes in. ^-^

[vx_unicom]

if god created the universe, who created god? just like the big bang theory, it doesnt make sense, creation from nothing? IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? the thing is humans dont know anything about anything just like the rest of the animals on this planet. religion and even science are just ways to make the humans feel like they have control and knowledge because the alternative answer (they have no clue of nothing) would cause them to go insane. science and religion are both human creations so they are subject to human bias. everything you know can be disproved. human error is the source of all the problems. and no computers cant figure it out since they are human creations too. infact... you could debate forever and ever about religion vs. science or any other controversial topic because anything that is controversial will always have multiple views and answers, and this is the defenite truth of all.
lol
Roll u've said nothing but nonsense...........ppl are ignoring my points so what do u expect. Roll ur blinded just like Joe is. God is a being that is immortal which means he doesn't have a begining or an end, he is eternal. I'm getting tired of typing so u know what debate with someone else.....cause no matter what happens we will never agree towards each other. So hola....yall!!! Ur all blinded, i will let my associate do the debating for me, i wanna talk about something else. ???

[Roll]

Roll u've said nothing but nonsense...........ppl are ignoring my points so what do u expect.
I am not ignoring your points. Right now, you're ignoring mine. If you continue to do so, I will totally ignore everything you have to say altogether.

Roll ur blinded just like Joe is. God is a being that is immortal which means he doesn't have a begining or an end, he is eternal.
No, immortal means you're not mortal; you cannot die. It doesn't mean that you don't have a beginning. Even my 5 year old CHRISTIAN cousin knows that.

I'm getting tired of typing so u know what debate with someone else.....cause no matter what happens we will never agree towards each other.
That was perhaps the most factual and honest statement you could have ever made in your lifetime. However, I doubt your tired of typing. I'm more convinced that you're tired of not having people who believe what you say very easily and then stand up and talk for you. Another quote will prove it.

So hola....yall!!!
You spelled "holla" wrong. If you're going to use slang, spell it right at least. The english language is complicated enough as it is without people adding slang and then mispelling them to form new words.

Ur all blinded, i will let my associate do the debating for me, i wanna talk about something else. ???
And here, my dear little boy that knows so much about so little, is my proof of what I spoke of earlier. No matter what you say, it doesn't change the fact that your motivation is affected by the fact that you don't have very many easy believers and supporters here to help you say that everyone who does not believe in christianity is stupid and/or wrong; and that they're the devil. While you let your "associate" talk for you (since you have nothing plausible to talk about in the first place, whereas he at least tries), you can talk about something else----somewhere else.
Needless to say, you're blinded by your selfless attachment to your pathetic pride.

[VampireNinja]

Alright!
Nantuko,you don't belive in religion ok...And you don't believe God made us so who started this all?And if you say evolution (monkeys)then who made the monkeys?
And Hell is not in the core!You can't see Hell or Heaven but both are true...And if you don't believe me, read the bible..And if you don't believe that ask anyone whos great great grandparents were living at that time...
Take that lil girl (i forgot her name)for instance...
She used to go to church and respected everything (back back then)and one day she saw Mary...And she was the only one who could see her..people were making fun of her and stuff..When she became older and passed out..they buried her and ..when they went to get her bones(like in 3 months)..Her flesh and her body was still there...Miracle
Btw..Im Catholic :biggrin:



Edited By VampireNinja on Mar. 21 2004 at 18:27

[vx_unicom]

Roll u've said nothing but nonsense...........ppl are ignoring my points so what do u expect.
I am not ignoring your points. Right now, you're ignoring mine. If you continue to do so, I will totally ignore everything you have to say altogether.

Roll ur blinded just like Joe is. God is a being that is immortal which means he doesn't have a begining or an end, he is eternal.
No, immortal means you're not mortal; you cannot die. It doesn't mean that you don't have a beginning. Even my 5 year old CHRISTIAN cousin knows that.

I'm getting tired of typing so u know what debate with someone else.....cause no matter what happens we will never agree towards each other.
That was perhaps the most factual and honest statement you could have ever made in your lifetime. However, I doubt your tired of typing. I'm more convinced that you're tired of not having people who believe what you say very easily and then stand up and talk for you. Another quote will prove it.

So hola....yall!!!
You spelled "holla" wrong. If you're going to use slang, spell it right at least. The english language is complicated enough as it is without people adding slang and then mispelling them to form new words.

Ur all blinded, i will let my associate do the debating for me, i wanna talk about something else. ???
And here, my dear little boy that knows so much about so little, is my proof of what I spoke of earlier. No matter what you say, it doesn't change the fact that your motivation is affected by the fact that you don't have very many easy believers and supporters here to help you say that everyone who does not believe in christianity is stupid and/or wrong; and that they're the devil. While you let your "associate" talk for you (since you have nothing plausible to talk about in the first place, whereas he at least tries), you can talk about something else----somewhere else.
Needless to say, you're blinded by your selfless attachment to your pathetic pride.
Roll........shame on u, YOU u think ur smart dont u? As a matter of fact more ppl who posted here believe that God exists and there is HEAVEN and EARTH. Atleast Joe proved his case and scientifically tried to explain to us what he means. At the other hand ur acting like Mr.Genius while ur saying things which don't make sense and and u've proved nothing.....so i would suggest that u count the numbers of ppl who disagree against ur damn case........Oh no wait, u've said nothing but get off topic......ur an ediot, ur just 16 u know nothing. :angry: :angryfire: u don't even have any points Joe does.......so lets all shoot each other abs get drunk!!! :laugh: all i've seen is blah....blah..blah...from roll.



Edited By vx_unicom on Mar. 21 2004 at 18:54

ppl are ignoring my points so what do u expect.

What are you talking about? I gave you PROOF of human evolution, and how did you respond? You said

"Joe ur wrong, those damn scientist are wong too......."

YOU are the one ignoring OUR points.

Like you said....why don't you actually start debating? We provide proof, and you ignore it and simply say we're wrong.

So from now on, anything you say, I will do just that. I will just say that you're wrong, and you can't prove a thing.

Because while I have been presenting cold, hard fact, YOU ignore ME. So stop complaining that we're ignoring your points. I have presented case after case supporting my arguments, and all you do is say "joe your wrong, stop ignoring me."



Edited By Shauku on Mar. 21 2004 at 19:08

[Roll]

More people who posted here believed that there is an all powerful God. That doesn't mean the whole world believes and/or acts the same way, nor does the majority. If you had any sense of thought, you would know that.

And another thing: I do NOT think I am smart. In fact, to be honest, after I think about what I can learn and know, I think I'm terribly stupid. But I don't need a childish dimwit trying to tell me what I already think. In fact, you shouldn't be telling other people that they are stupid when you yourself are also ignorant and unknowledgable. You're the one acting like Mr. Genius, not me.

Oh no wait, u've said nothing but get off topic......ur an ediot, ur just 16 u know nothing. u don't even have any points Joe does.......so lets all shoot each other abs get drunk!!! all i've seen is blah....blah..blah...from roll.

I've not even gone off topic; but it would seem like that to you, because you don't tend to fully take in what is told to you. You never even tried to consider anything that anyone else has said. I haven't seen much else except mindless babble coming from you at all, and what you just posted proves it. Something for you to learn: If you're going to try and flame/humiliate someone, at least spell your names correctly, and try to use proper grammar and sentence structure. It really does help.

But let's do it your way:
You're just a kid. You know nothing.



Edited By Roll on Mar. 20 2004 at 20:11

[Bob~Marley4004]

i hear ppl say they dont believe in GOD ! so do u pp believe in the devil if youdont believe in God??

[(ShinKu_Ryu)]

Mou5y You dont make sense...and roll, all this you have been saying looks like your taking joes side........ :angryfire:

And joe you dont make sense by saying give me proof that there is a heaven.....Its like saying i want proof that there is a living god..?!? ???



Edited By (ShinKu_Ryu) on Mar. 21 2004 at 19:14

[Roll]

Mou5y You dont make sense...and roll, all this you have been saying looks like your taking joes side........ :angryfire:

And joe you dont make sense by saying give me proof that there is a heaven.....Its like saying i want proof that there is a living god..?!? ???
Technically, I am not taking any side. I respect all beliefs that are shared around the world, and I think it wrong to judge any of them harshly. But at the same time, if someone tries to impose their beliefs as superior, or tries to impose that what they've found to be true to them is supposed to be the ultimate truth for all people, then I will go against them for that. No one has the right to say that, no matter how many people think similarly. Even you have to admit that it's wrong to do that.

And what Joe asks for makes sense. It's.. like when a child says that there are monsters under the bed. If you can prove to them that there are none, then they'll feel better and safer, and they will calm down.

[(ShinKu_Ryu)]

Mou5y You dont make sense...and roll, all this you have been saying looks like your taking joes side........ :angryfire:

And joe you dont make sense by saying give me proof that there is a heaven.....Its like saying i want proof that there is a living god..?!? ???
Technically, I am not taking any side. I respect all beliefs that are shared around the world, and I think it wrong to judge any of them harshly. But at the same time, if someone tries to impose their beliefs as superior, or tries to impose that what they've found to be true to them is supposed to be the ultimate truth for all people, then I will go against them for that. No one has the right to say that, no matter how many people think similarly. Even you have to admit that it's wrong to do that.

And what Joe asks for makes sense. It's.. like when a child says that there are monsters under the bed. If you can prove to them that there are none, then they'll feel better and safer, and they will calm down.
The example you gave of a child being afraid of a monster under the bed does dot make sense to......... :shocked:

All I'm asking for is a reasonable debate of knowledge. However, all of my perfectly clear, 100%-backed points are being ignored. I've been offering pieces of evidence after pieces of evidence, insteances of proof after instances of proof. I've been offering cold, hard debate material this entire time.

And what do I get for it? I get vx unicom NOT DEBATING, but simply saying that i am wrong. I present evidence, and he ignores it. I provide proof, and he disregards it, merely saying that "joe you are wrong."

Does he provide REASONS as to why I am wrong? No, he just says "joe ur wrong." Then, he goes as far as to say "joe ur too ignorant to know the truth, ur too young to know the truth." I give examples of other religious beliefs, and he says "no they're wrong too."

And then he says that we are ignoring HIS points. I have been making points all along, and he ignores every one of them, just so he can say "joe ur wrong, all scientists who don't believe in god are wrong."

That's not debate material. That's crap.

I was stupid to think that I could actually find a debate here from anyone other than Roll, SBYRD or Tarkan. vx and shinku ryu are not debating. They're making unbacked insistians.

If this keeps up, I'm gonna have to go with Elena and have someone lock the topic. Not because "i'm afraid of losing the debate," but becuase you people don't even know HOW to debate.

[Evil-Blanka]

It may not be a joke, but it is still wrong to try and sway other people's judgements with a newspaper article like they did. Anyone who would start saying "Praise God now, lest you should burn like a chicken on a barbeque!" is a type of person who I would believe to be filled with follies, have concerns that are too irrational, and keep lax morals.
i see hell in my other streetfighterex3 game when you win you see hell

[VampireNinja]

Shauku(Nantuko Joe)...All you talk is about is debate,after debate...
Were just giving off some things on what people BELIEVE cause we don't really care wut is your BELIEVE and whatnot...
(im not only focusing on you though)SYBRD is just showing us some things he read in an appropiate way of what he thinks and stuff...And then u come in and you start your debate thing and you start an arguement..i noe its your opinion but next time slow it down
cause were not 21 or summin :biggrin:
Btw,Can a mod pls close this topic?



Edited By VampireNinja on Mar. 21 2004 at 20:16

[blossom]

[color=red:post_uid6]Joe its not that no one is capable of debating besides Roll, SByrd, and Tark. The thing is Christianity is heavily based on faith. There isn't any real way to prove that anything on that page is fact, that's why I disagree with the way James is proclaiming it as hard evidence. Anyone can find a few verses in the bible, throw them onto a web page, add something flashy and try to make a case. I was shown that site a month or two ago by a girl from school. To me Hell is all too real, I really don't need a web site to tell me that its not a place I would like to be for an eternity. In church we learn about giving our life over to God and living righteous, so that BS recording didn't sway my opinion about Hell anymore than it may have swayed yours lol. Its true that you do have good points Joe, but seriously religion is only fact to those who believe it is, science cant explain everything, and no one is really sure what happens after death.[/color:post_uid6]

[VampireNinja]

But Blossom,Do you go to Church?And you believe that theres a Hell and theres no Heaven?I understand your post and everything but i can't calculate the meaning.Ok lets say..How do you noe theres a Hell?And no Heaven?

Anyways,im just leaving your opinions to yourself.If you don't want to believe,i don't really care.But if you do,then its cool.And im not judging peoples opinions or leaving them out for what they think

Im just making it clear :biggrin:



Edited By VampireNinja on Mar. 21 2004 at 21:10

[MasterX05]

Geez why cant people see that Humans are Animals. We ARE apart of the animal Kingdom. People see it all wrong of the evloution of human we did not come from monkeys or apes. Matter of fact we are really no where near apes. It is the chimpanzees, we all have a common ancestor. But then in evloution it branched of to apes,monkeys humans and Chimps. Chimpanzees share 99.4 percent of functionally important DNA with humans and belong in our genus. Thats very close number if youask me. And the mostly main reason we evolved and other animals and plants evolved. Was for suirval, adaption to the environment. Notice how animals in cold places can surivie the cold winters.

And if God did create the universe why all the other planets? And how come they said nothing about the great large Dinos that ruled the earth. If god created man and animals and gave Adam the chance to name them all. I mean how could Adam and Eve be true? Tell me who in the hell took note and kept track of this during that time. Im pretty sure God didnt have a journal he wrote in everyday. Day 1 made earth...... come on I find that very hard to believe they have what he did and made each day. And all the bull of how they eat the fruit from this forbidden tree. And god kicked them out and sealed of the garden. And thats why everyone is born with a sin. Come on ive read fairy tales more believable.



Edited By MasterX05 on Mar. 21 2004 at 23:19

[SSJKarma]

ok... time i join this DEBATE of yours...

1 - the temperature rising might have been a flock LAVA coming out of the center of the earth. we all know that 40 kilometer below us is a living hell of flames, magma and lava !

2 - the voices heard could everything on earth and still not be human voices ! been proved that many people's heard supposed voices of humans and the likes but in the end it was just wind, earth and mainly everything else besides human voices !

3 - has they prooved that deal with video footage and the likes, no they only recorded sounds which could have been everything else besides human voices !

4 - the bible is only a fairy tale. (at least for me)

5 - If hell exists then how come we prooved that there is no HEAVEN besides the clouds ? (satellites prooved this too well)

6 - if hell really exists, then how comes our so sofisticated sensors didn't detected it way earlier ?

7 - if that was true, then how come we never saw any demons coming out of there since we supposedly openned the door up ?

8 - why wouldn't they be able to come out by themselves ?

9 - does this mean that if i die, i will not be going away but i will go down and into the center of earth ?

10 - do you think i prooved my point or you need of me to go on like this ?

i'm not turning this down as you might think... i'm just asking for a lot more proofs then a single recording that could be anything !

ok... time i join this DEBATE of yours...

1 - the temperature rising might have been a flock LAVA coming out of the center of the earth. we all know that 40 kilometer below us is a living hell of flames, magma and lava !

2 - the voices heard could everything on earth and still not be human voices ! been proved that many people's heard supposed voices of humans and the likes but in the end it was just wind, earth and mainly everything else besides human voices !

3 - has they prooved that deal with video footage and the likes, no they only recorded sounds which could have been everything else besides human voices !

4 - the bible is only a fairy tale. (at least for me)

5 - If hell exists then how come we prooved that there is no HEAVEN besides the clouds ? (satellites prooved this too well)

6 - if hell really exists, then how comes our so sofisticated sensors didn't detected it way earlier ?

7 - if that was true, then how come we never saw any demons coming out of there since we supposedly openned the door up ?

8 - why wouldn't they be able to come out by themselves ?

9 - does this mean that if i die, i will not be going away but i will go down and into the center of earth ?

10 - do you think i prooved my point or you need of me to go on like this ?

i'm not turning this down as you might think... i'm just asking for a lot more proofs then a single recording that could be anything !
No offense, but all were points I already made; plus the fact that that article came from the National Inquirer.

The debate has seemingly turned to the overall debate between science vs the bible, or so it would seem. Actually it's not much of a debate, considering how only one person is bringing debate materials, me, while the other is making unbacked claims, flat-out stating that i'm wrong without providing reasons, ignoring my debate materials, and claiming that everyone's ignoring his points while I've been debating his every point into the ground.

[vx_unicom]

Roll doesn't even know what debating is for that matter.....he is either on the opposing side and the defending side, he is been spamming. Anyways Joe i did prove of a how there must be source that created the whole universe. why do u think some gay people think God created Adam and Steve instead of Adam and Eve? So basically ur saying that humans evolved from baboons.......well i've heard scientist say humans evolved from apes not baboons.....the prove that humans evolved from apes and the fact that God created humans....I think the humans evolving from apes just doesn't make sense because we are special not the same with animals. I'm not ignoring ur points i just dont think they make any sense....without that source that created the universe we would not exist. ???

Roll doesn't even know what debating is for that matter.....he is either on the opposing side and the defending side, he is been spamming.

Actually Roll is a she, not a he (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong). Roll is actually an excellent debator, and has not been spamming, but providing us with her own outlook on religion/science/spirituality. You just choose to flame her because you don't like what she's saying.

Anyways Joe i did prove of a how there must be source that created the whole universe. why do u think some gay people think God created Adam and Steve instead of Adam and Eve?

No gay man actually believes that god created Adam and Steve. That's just a horrible prejudicial stereotype bestowed down upon homosexuals because they're different from heterosexuals.

So basically ur saying that humans evolved from baboons.......well i've heard scientist say humans evolved from apes not baboons.....

Um....I NEVER said "baboons." In every single post I've made, I've said "apes," or more specifically, "chimpanzees." And you yell at me for putting words in YOUR mouth.

the prove that humans evolved from apes and the fact that God created humans....

No, the FACT that humans evolved from apes vs the THEORY that god created humans.....it's only THEORY because it's never been proven true.

I think the humans evolving from apes just doesn't make sense because we are special not the same with animals.

How are we special? We ARE animals. The ONLY difference between us and say, a chimp, are the following:

--We are more highly evolved. This means...
------Our DNA contains better chromosomes
------Our brains are larger and more well-developed

That's the only difference. We are not "special." We are animals that have better brains than we do. Just like the shark has a better swimming ability than we do, and just like birds have wings and can fly wheras we cannot.

without that source that created the universe we would not exist

Exactly, I fully agree. But how do you KNOW that the source is god? How do you know that the source wasn't the Big Bang? Scientists have already PROVEN that the universe is still expanding. It is FACT. It is TRUTH. The universe is expanding, and you cannot deny it, because it's happening as we speak.

So if the universe is expanding, then if we go backwards in time, the universe would start shrinking, and eventually wind all the way back to one single solitary point in space, where the big bang occurred...SUPPOSEDLY. It's NOT fact, it's NOT truth, but it's theory that's BASED ON EVIDENCE.

What evidence is there to suggest that your god really exists? A book, and that's it. What evidence is there to suggest that human evolution is fact, wheras god is a theory? All the evidence in the world. As you so eloquently put it....the proof is all around you, it's everywhere. You just choose not to see it.

I'm not ignoring ur points i just dont think they make any sense...

But you ARE ignoring my points. I provided a huge post on human evolution based on FACT. What did you say?

"no joe ur wrong the scientists are wrong and lying to everyone and themselves"

WTF is that? First off, that's NOT how you debate. You pick apart the post as a whole and debate each of its points one by one. You don't simply say "ur wrong."

I don't think YOUR points make any sense, but does that stop me from debating them? No!

So until YOU start debating my points, which you don't understand even though they're based on FACT, then I'm going to ignore YOUR points, and for the same reason you gave me. "because they don't make sense."

And you say that I'm blind, that everyone else is blind. At least we are open to criticism, at least we are open to try and see things from another point of view. I USED to believe in god, but simply saw things from a different point of view. And I still am open to other ideas. Roll's beliefs are intriguing to me, there could be something there.

But you, on the other hand, are NOT open to other ideas. Anything you don't agree with, you meet with hostile rejection. By stating that there is no such thing as reincarnation (as if you had proof to back your claim), you've publicly stated not that you THINK other religions are wrong, but that they ARE wrong, once again with no evidence to back your claims. And you ask me a question, I provide cold hard data, actual FACT supporting my argument, and then simply say "no joe ur wrong." Once again, you did NOT say "well that's a good argument, but my beliefs are different" or "I THINK ur wrong," but you flat-out state "joe ur wrong the scientists are wrong." That's some bullcrap. To flat-out state that is to ignore the truth.

Back when I believed in god and the bible, I was the same way. I didn't want to believe science. I was afraid that I was wrong and that there was another explanation out there, a better explanation. But unlike you, who completely shuts out not just suggestions, but FACT, I was open to new ideas. I was able to think for myself without rejecting all other beliefs.

__________

Now.....debates are fought by providing cold, hard data. In a courtroom, if you were to debate the existence of god, you would need to bring evidence, bring proof, to the table in order to even be able to speak. If someone got into a political debate about god and the opposing side brought forth debate materials such as I did....fact that has been PROVEN true....this material would HAVE to be recognized by both the audience and the other debate team at large. If the one side of the debate makes a claim, but has no evidence, their argument is null and void.

So tell me, who has the better argument? The side that says "I say that god does not exist, for these reasons (reason a, reason b, reason c, etc) and here is the evidence to prove it."?

Or the side that says "No, the other team is wrong, all their evidence is wrong, because I don't think it makes sense. God is real, and if you don't think so, you're blinded to the real world."

Really. In an actual rational argument, who really makes more sense? The side that presents rational fact, or the side that makes claims without providing proof and insulting the other team?

My point is that unless you are actually going to debate my points, don't post at all, because YOUR posts would be considered spam.

Besides, how can you say that you're "very good in science," say that you "have the edge in this debate," yet say that my science-based proof makes no sense? It's the simple fact of human evolution! How can you claim to be good at science not only when you say that science makes no sense, but when you say that science is wrong? That makes less sense than anything else you've insisted upon thus far....well, almost....

[Roll]

Actually Roll is a she, not a he (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong). Roll is actually an excellent debator, and has not been spamming, but providing us with her own outlook on religion/science/spirituality. You just choose to flame her because you don't like what she's saying.
Yes: I am, always have been, and always will be a girl. ^-^
..and thank you for the defence, Joe. *hugs*

Shauku(Nantuko Joe)...All you talk is about is debate,after debate...
Were just giving off some things on what people BELIEVE cause we don't really care wut is your BELIEVE and whatnot...
(im not only focusing on you though)SYBRD is just showing us some things he read in an appropiate way of what he thinks and stuff...And then u come in and you start your debate thing and you start an arguement

I'd just like to point out right here that I was then one that started an argument, and debate. Don't give him blame when it wasn't truly his fault in the first place.
....and what's wrong with debating? '

[alamgir]

Really? Give us an example. Let me guess DMC?

[Roll]

Really? Give us an example. Let me guess DMC?
*doesn't have a clue what DMC stands for or is*

If you meant for the game thing, I was kind of leaning towards the Breath of Fire 2 game. I can't say much for any other Breath of Fire games, since I have not had the chance to play them. Also, some Street Fighter characters are quite "religious".

[SSJKarma]

Nantuko, there is no offence to be taken into account, i didn't read the topic entirely on purpose, i knew tat what i was saying would have probably been said already. so there is no offense taken !

as for some facts...
well nantuko you said science has proofs as well !
well take it from this point of view...

who said 2 + 2 = 4 ?
why is it so ?
who created science ?
and why humans do mistakes ?

if you take all these 4 questions into accounts... you notice how science is purely made by a being that makes lots of mistakes, then why wouldn't science be our biggest mistake ? science could be wrong, not entirely but mainly.

so i am on the side that everything could be everything.
science didn't solved half of the events we had in life.

as in, depending on science, 10/10 things are bad for our health !
yet we live in this world so how come it is bad for our health ?

knowing that, i know for a fact, my fact, my opinion, that nothing can be prooved in existence. unless you, the person, actually experienced it yourself !

as for religions... well i say all of them are derived from only one truth, but that in history got viewed by so many people. that it deformed completely and now each single religion as a little piece of it right !

the best example is...
the game we called telephone, play it with more then 10 friends and see howbad the first sentence was changed. now take the bible and extrapolate it, same with all books of all religions. notice how the books of today cannot be true to what they were 2000 years ago ! because it is 2000 years of extrapolation, 2000 years of change to the text, 2000 years of view from different people who didn't even see the same thing.

so knowing this, how can these books be true in the end ?

as for the big bang theory...
well its true that the universe is expanding, but was it always expanding ?
let's say the universe was not expanding, something very big happens and bang, it throws all the system away. what we see today is an expansion yes... but there is no way for us to know that the system was just a small point in the universe history. it could have been a small system that was running normally when its sun exploded and brought disaster to the whole solar system which threw all planets in it away and since some of them have been crashing thru each others, it threw zillions of rocks true the universe thus creating everything else.

see, there is multiple point of view, but there is no way to know which one will ever be true.

there is one thing i always learned around here... you don't live in the past, so does it matter to know what hapenned and why we are here right now debating about this ?

my answer, no, there is no reason to that. because it won't change anything about our present lives. so live in the time you are now, god or not, you still gotta live your life the way you want it to be lived ! and no one can make you live the life you don't want to !

don't take it wrong... i became ATHEIST because there was no proof from any side that things really happenned. i believe my own belif and that's the only thing that matter for me ! that's all that should matter for everyone else as well !

[blanka09]

Before I pour out my guts in this topic, I'd like to congratulate folks who have debated and reasoned like normal human beings.. To the other wombats... well good luck and God speed :biggrin:

Now first off, I'll head for the topic.. SBYRD5.. I've heard of this incident.. but from what I believe and what I can comprehend, hell is real.. but definitely not anywhere on this planet. Just like heaven, it's spiritual.. and it takes faith for you to believe.. If you think it's real.. then it is.. If you think it's not.. then that's your cup of tea with bread, milk and sugar. Whether or not the one party is correct or wrong, it wouldn't matter to the other one and vice versa.


Now this is from Blossom

Joe its not that no one is capable of debating besides Roll, SByrd, and Tark. The thing is Christianity is heavily based on faith There isn't any real way to prove that anything on that page is fact

This is one of the most reasonable things I've read in this topic.

As a christain, to argue with an unbeliever (no offense) is to reason at the same threshold with them. What on earth gives you the knowledge that you can infact prove that God does exist.. when you know very well that He is spirit and by faith... only by faith do we follow his doctrine.

The Bible is his word.. and that's the so-called code of honor we follow... That doesn't mean that it can be used in a forum like this.. where different minds, Point of views and logic.
Some ppl believe in science, some ppl believe in wombats.. *cougH* and some ppl believe in God. :biggrin:

Before I go on, just for those still wondering I am a christain!

Nowback to my point. If you are... as a christain, going to debate on a topic as delicate as this, you must remember that in our Bible, it does in fact say that there are ppl that are gonna disagree with ours and we cannot force them to think the way we think. Instead try to make them see that your way is the correct way.. and if they don't fine.. If they do.. fine. Remember Paul said that we would be the most reasonable set of ppl on this earth if in all honesty, our beliefs aren't truth..and our faith has no substance.

Now those of you who aren't christains.. This topic took a quick, sharp and unhealthy turn. I've always run away from these types in forums like this (don't know why.. must be my stupidity. :biggrin: ) But for some reason, I do like the way you guys put your facts down.
But be warned.. that there is in fact some physical .. though rare... evidence that there is a God.
Think of it this way.. Everything in your life that has occured.. right from the day you were born to this day. Can every single thing be explained by science. Can you explain coincidence, luck or somethings that just work in your favor.. or not in your favor?
If you can.. then good luck to ya.. For I wouldn't believe it one bit!

But I am for one open to ideas.. like you Joe. If there's one thing I share with some of you, it's the fact that the beliefs of others intrigue me. And I'm willing to read more if they infact exist.

Now to the whole big bang theory.. Well, to me.. it makes no sense.. Sure it's fact that the universe is expanding.. but how on earth can you tell me that the world was created from an explosion? And to those who believe that humans evolved from Ape or monkeys or chimpazees.. Get ur facts straight. I've indeed read the theory that the sceintist put out.. but for Darwin to call on God's name in his death bed.. after his theory on evolution.. heh..
Ok.. Let me put it this way.. Humans didn't evolve from chimpazees.. cause if they did.. Why didn't the other chimpazees involve??
Now an earlier species known as the Australopethicus Africanus or in the early man is where we evolved from. From that to the homo habilis (cause they could handle stuff).. to the homo erectus (cause they could walk straight) and to the present homo sapiens.. (cause they think.. which isn't sometimes good for them.) Now do I believe in what I've just wrote.. maybe.. maybe not. But that's just the origin of the present human beings according to science.

If infact the science was true and correct and accurate all along, then why haven't the homo sapiens evolved.. after living for such a long time?? These are just some of the questions.. that how should I say.. distorts my belief in science and evolution as the origin of man.

Anyways Joe i did prove of a how there must be source that created the whole universe. why do u think some gay people think God created Adam and Steve instead of Adam and Eve?

That statement.. who ever made it has no substance.. so I wouldn't bother making any comment to it.

Now I'll attack the gays.. I have nothing against homo sexuals.. except the main question every straight.. so to say person asks... How on earth do.. well you get the idea.. :biggrin: I wouldn't go into that.. But for those who say they are christains and are gay.. Pure folly! You say you believe in God.. and yet you don't follow his words.. Then you are stupid. You should try reading the first chapter of Romans to understand what I'm saying.
Now if you're gay and you don't believe in God.. then I've got nothing against you.. All I can do is ask why.. Like a certain wombat once said,

To ask why is to dig deeper into the well of pity, knowledge, despair and anguish for things you should have no control or judgements on

How... on the other hand seems to be a more reasonable question.

And if you want more evidence that God does exist, think about your sleeping and waking up everyday.. Why don't you just sleep and die in your sleep like some ppl do. Well, I know there's a basic and very brillaint scientific explanation to that.. so I'd like to hear.. for this brainless child hasn't dug deeper into that realm of knowledge.

Now.....debates are fought by providing cold, hard data. In a courtroom, if you were to debate the existence of god, you would need to bring evidence, bring proof, to the table in order to even be able to speak. If someone got into a political debate about god and the opposing side brought forth debate materials such as I did....fact that has been PROVEN true....this material would HAVE to be recognized by both the audience and the other debate team at large. If the one side of the debate makes a claim, but has no evidence, their argument is null and void.

I'll like to end my epistle on this quote. Truly.. you would win for you have brought evidence that partain to this world.. and in cold fact God doesn't exist.. for there's nothing physical.. or man like about him. He's spirit.. and those who choose to have faith in him believe and walk in his part, do so in spirit and truth.. and definitely not with facts that would work in a courtroom.

Feast ur eyes on my ownment and drool.. *cough* j/k :biggrin:

--nuff said!

Edit: Oh and btw the wombat that made that quote about digging deeper into why.. instead of asking how was blanka09 :biggrin:



Edited By blanka09 on Mar. 22 2004 at 14:38

[MasterX05]

Roll doesn't even know what debating is for that matter.....he is either on the opposing side and the defending side, he is been spamming. Anyways Joe i did prove of a how there must be source that created the whole universe. why do u think some gay people think God created Adam and Steve instead of Adam and Eve? So basically ur saying that humans evolved from baboons.......well i've heard scientist say humans evolved from apes not baboons.....the prove that humans evolved from apes and the fact that God created humans....I think the humans evolving from apes just doesn't make sense because we are special not the same with animals. I'm not ignoring ur points i just dont think they make any sense....without that source that created the universe we would not exist.

What? did u not read my post? Im not sure where u got baboons from but we did not evolve FROM apes. We all had that one common ancestor but it then branched of to monkeys, apes, chimps. The reason we know this as a fact cuase of the closenes we have with chimps. Like look at the birds take a small blue jay and a Hawk. They are both birds right? But u think that a big hawk evolved out of that small bird into the big preadtor it is? Same with Dogs and wolfs they did not evolve out of each other. And the bobcat and normal cat. Im just putting this down as a example.


doesn't have a clue what DMC stands for or is*

If you meant for the game thing, I was kind of leaning towards the Breath of Fire 2 game. I can't say much for any other Breath of Fire games, since I have not had the chance to play them. Also, some Street Fighter characters are quite "religious".

Devil May Cry is what he means roll. And I have played Breath of Fire 2 (to bad it got erased before I made it to the end) And that gaem did pick on the religon thing. Of how the people where brainwash to worship this false god and the prist was a demon or sumthing. And if youdid not take into it they would have killed u.


But be warned.. that there is in fact some physical .. though rare... evidence that there is a God.
Think of it this way.. Everything in your life that has occured.. right from the day you were born to this day. Can every single thing be explained by science. Can you explain coincidence, luck or somethings that just work in your favor.. or not in your favor?


The johavah Witness believe that there are Demons that cuase all the bad luck and choas on the earth. Sounds crazy and so I am to belive my luck in winning the lottery. Or taking my school basketball game to finals and making the final shot. Its God that gives us this good luck or turn arounds in life?


the best example is...
the game we called telephone, play it with more then 10 friends and see howbad the first sentence was changed. now take the bible and extrapolate it, same with all books of all religions. notice how the books of today cannot be true to what they were 2000 years ago ! because it is 2000 years of extrapolation, 2000 years of change to the text, 2000 years of view from different people who didn't even see the same thing.

Excatly what ive been trying to say from the start. Meaning that every word from word cannot be true in the Bible.

[nosoul4evr]

..Oh no, not another Pro/Con religion topic. ???
Elena is correct, this topic should have been closed along time ago.

Religion is a personal choice, and should be kept and shared with ones friends and family and not forced upon the public.
There are entire forums on the internet dedicated to these kinds of discussions...this is not one of them.

I do know one thing though...

The universe is too old, vast and complex in it's entirety for mankind to ever fully grasp and understand as a whole.
No matter how long the human race exists or how evolved our technology gets, the "whole" will always be larger then our ability to understand "why".

The events of the universe, including life..."just are".
And we are bound to these events and circumstances weather we want to be or not.

Live your life the way you want to, believe the things you wish to believe, do the things you wish to do, and be happy that others are doing the same.

The universe is an organized cycling chaos from all appearances, it only makes sense that it's organisms are too.

This topic is now CLOSED



Edited By nosoul4evr on Mar. 22 2004 at 20:59